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Ohhhh Miura is a badmington fan before Blue Box release
I mean with Oda, yes he did plan alot like with Wano how it took over a decade, and probably Elbaf is being saved in his back pocket. Even Amazon Lily was planned but he moved it up cause he wanted the arc out of the way before his daughter went to school (you understand why I say it like that with an arc like Amazon Lily). But I can tell that this was what he always wanted to do, like the two one-shots of Romance Dawn before we knew it as One Piece, his continued passion to draw. They are what a natural genius is supposed to be.But Oda does plan pretty extensively. Not everything is calculated in advance, but Oda was planning Wano almost a decade before he reached it. Even though he adds elements as he goes, the broad strokes of the story were in place from the very first arc. Not only that, but he went through like 4 drafts of the one-shot before he could serialize it.
On the other hand Togashi, who started off Yu Yu Hakusho as an episodic slice-of-life, later swapped to a battle series, and ultimately abandoned the entire project for HxH (where everyone has powers based on children's toys, and everyone takes a long break to play an in-universe MMO for several months), seems more like the "draw what you want".
Any artist can be any type, depending on how you define it. It doesn't really mean anything.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You are not wrong with Toriyama, as with the Android Cell saga, that was changed alot due to his old editor Torishima who told him the villains of the time were not interesting. Which started off with 19 and 20 (plot twist on 20), which then led to 17 and 18, then Cell, and then finally to Perfect Cell. So yes, he did improvise.The prime example of absolute genius, in my opinion, is Toriyama. I think he admitted in one of the interviews that he basically write Dragonball on the go without much planning. Just see with how he comes up with the android and cell.
That's why the powerscaling and the arcs are quite jarring and lack cohesiveness when you look at it in big picture from start to end. Basically just about Goku beating up more and more powerful enemies. But Dragonball is still the most beloved and entertaining manga ever. I love it so much.
And his lineart are absolutely masterpiece. You can tell it is the brushstroke of masters. His designs are so appealing and his foundation strong. His paneling and composition are so clear and exciting. Humor on point.
As you say yourself, it sounds like both artists are both geniuses and planners. Because it isn't a useful distinction.I mean with Oda, yes he did plan alot like with Wano how it took over a decade, and probably Elbaf is being saved in his back pocket. Even Amazon Lily was planned but he moved it up cause he wanted the arc out of the way before his daughter went to school (you understand why I say it like that with an arc like Amazon Lily). But I can tell that this was what he always wanted to do, like the two one-shots of Romance Dawn before we knew it as One Piece, his continued passion to draw. They are what a natural genius is supposed to be.
As for Togashi, you are right about YuYu Hakusho, but at the same time it was hard for him cause of how he felt demotivated due to Jump's "practices" that didn't allow for him to do what he wanted. And even in the final arc and the way it ended due to his health, he still considers it a failure. It wouldn't be until he got some leverage that he would do Level E at his own pace. Though a big departure to do a comedy, he nailed it. As for Hunter x Hunter, it was more of what he did want to do with a battle manga, but it was a certain deal he had for Jump when they wanted another hit in the same vein as Yuyu Hakusho. But this time he (Togashi) wanted to make it a hit. But unlike doing things where it is about being a natural genius, the calculative side comes in where he had a strategy to understand why people like battle manga. And when you see how the series begins, you can tell that there was a plan to begin with in those first chapters unlike most mangaka with the simple 3 chapter rule process (chapter 1 self contained, chapter 2 either an episodic, self explanation, or cool down after the first chapter, chapter 3 is the first step into the plot). But just because it was calculative doesn't mean that there isn't any passion behind it, as with Yuyu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter, these series are based on his passions, like the supernatural occult of Yuyu Hakusho, or his hobby of collecting things which is reflective of Hunter x Hunter. Along with a brief arc that catered to his intrests in rpg video games like Dragon Quest with Greed Island. I do think that he is a calculative type but he is also a natural genius to come up with these ideas that fit into his reel house without that whole "agenda" of what Jump wanted.
What is that ?
Teaser for the next volume coverWhat is that ?
I think she once mentioned in the weekly comments that she is indeed a fan, but isn’t very good at it. In fact, her play’s gotten worse due to being a mangakaOhhhh Miura is a badmington fan before Blue Box release
You are mixing two different definitions of "calculating".But Oda does plan pretty extensively. Not everything is calculated in advance, but Oda was planning Wano almost a decade before he reached it. Even though he adds elements as he goes, the broad strokes of the story were in place from the very first arc. Not only that, but he went through like 4 drafts of the one-shot before he could serialize it.
Great discussion there galaxy. A strong point there.As you say yourself, it sounds like both artists are both geniuses and planners. Because it isn't a useful distinction.
Togashi is as passionate about HxH as Oda is about One Piece. Oda put as much thought into One Piece as Togashi did into HxH. There isn't any way to divide them that isn't arbitrary. Every mangaka is both.
You have to remember that Bakuman was written by Ohba, a mangaka who is rumored to have started as a relatively unsuccessful gag artist. To someone who had very little success, it makes sense to cynically categorize more successful artists as "natural geniuses" and frame the underdogs like yourself as "calculating planners" in your semi-autobiographical manga about manga. But all that actually means is "people who find success quickly in the industry" and "people who struggle to find success in the industry". Once you've found success, those labels don't actually apply anymore. I don't think it's useful to arbitrarily label manga artists as "geniuses" or "not-geniuses".
In real life, we often say writers are planners or pantsers-- that is, whether they write with or without planning. In the context of Bakuman, this is what "calculating planners" and "natural geniuses" is referring to. After all, look at the only two "natural geniuses" in the manga: Eiji Nizuma and Hiramaru Kazuya. In real life, we might refer to Toriyama as an example of this, but the vast majority of authors are somewhere in-between. We see this in Bakuman itself when Eiji Nizuma acknowledges that he should become a planner to stay relevant (which means there is only one remaining "natural genius" in the manga-- a low-ranking gag artist. Based on Chapter 179, the only natural genius in Jump today might be Me & Roboco's Shuhei Miyazaki).
In conclusion, it's advice that editors provide for struggling newbies, but it stops being meaningful once they are no longer newbies. It boils down to "you have a good grasp on this stuff, just polish your fundamentals" versus "your fundamentals are strong, but you need to do more research before you submit another draft". And that's all it is really meant to be.
Aw darn if only this started when they first start just to know if 1st week/1st month views could predict successSHONEN JUMP SERIES WITH THE MOST MANGA PV VIEWS ON YOUTUBE!
Astro Royale 1st chapter has 175k views on Jump Plus so far after 2 days, good views, i was going to do a ranking but noticed that both Kill Blue and Nue's Exorcist 3 chapters trial were deleted due to the last free read promotion so there's not much point to do since it will be far from accurate, so decided to go with the Youtube PV ranking since the videos are still all up on Shonen Jump channel, in 4 days Astro PV has reached 155k which are pretty good numbers specially considering how lately these PV hasn't reached much higher views.
The ranking right now with all the last series available in the two Shonen Jump official channels on YT, all these numbers are from the manga PV that Jump always upload for a new series in the same day they start in the magazine, these are not from volume release PV or Vomic, and also, some very few series doesn't have a PV video anymore for whatever reason like Mitama Security, Kamio Yui, Jimoto, David-kun, Tanaka Seiji, Alice and Act-Age, this one for the obvious reason (everything related to the manga got deleted in the channels) and Jump didn't do PV for series before Act-Age.
The ranking:
1. Chainsaw Man (366k)
2. Jujutsu Kaisen (349k)
3. PPPPPP (339k)
4. Witch Watch (321k)
5. The Ichinose Family's Deadly Sins (309k)
6. Phantom Seer (293k)
7. Burn The Witch (290k)
8. Ruri Dragon (216k)
9. Guardian of the Witch (200k)
10. Mission: Yozakura Family (195k)
11. Ayakashi Triangle (191k)
12. Dear Anemone (178k)
13. The Elusive Samurai (168k)
14. Astro Royale (155k) - 4 Days
15. Kagurabachi (142k)
16. Blue Box (135k)
17. Mashle (127k)
18. Dr. Stone Reboot: Byakuya (119k)
19. Super Smartphone (113k)
20. Me & Roboco (109k)
21. Undead Unluck (106k)
22. Zipman!! (106k)
23. Hard-Boiled Cop & Dolphin (102k)
24. Samurai 8 (97k)
25. Sakamoto Days (92k)
26. High School Family (74k)
27. Aliens Area (68k)
28. Red Hood (67k)
29. Do Retry (66k)
30. Ayashimon (63k)
31. Shadow Eliminators (62k)
32. Moriking (59k)
33. Time Paradox Ghostwriter (58k)
34. Akane Banashi (55k)
35. Magu-chan: God of Destruction (55k)
36. Agravity Boys (52k)
37. Bone Collection (52k)
38. MamaYuyu (47k)
39. Our Blood Oath (46k)
40. Nue's Exorcist (45k)
41. Fabricant 100 (45k)
42. Candy Flurry (45k)
43. Kill Blue (44k)
44. i tell c (44k)
45. Build King (41k)
46. Tokyo Shinobi Squad (41k)
47. Earthchild (37k)
48. Ichigoki's Under Control!! (35k)
49. Cipher Academy (34k)
50. Noah's Notes (33k)
51. Beast Children (29k)
52. Tokyo Demon Bride Story (28k)
53. Hell Warden Higuma (25k)
54. Ziga (25k)
55. Doron Dororon (24k)
56. Double Taisei (24k)
57. Martial Master Asumi (23k)
58. Tenmaku Cinema (23k)
59. The Last Saiyuki (22k)
60. Ice-Head Gill (22k)
61. Super Psychic Policeman Chojo (20k)
62. Ginka & Glüna (20k)
63. Green Green Greens (17k)
64. Neru: Way of the Martial Artist (17k)
65. Nine Dragons' Ball Parade (17k)
66. Momiji no Kisetsu (16k)
67. ne0;lation (14k)
68. Protect Me! Shugomaru (14k)
69. Two on Ice (12k)
70. Kimi wo Shinryaku Seyo! (7k)
Worth to notice that excluding short stuff, there's only 4 series in the Top 20 that were axed fast, so statistically Astro Royale already being the 14th most viewed PV in just 4 days seems to be a pretty good sign, and before "Wakui is a big author", the ranking itself shows that having a big name will not necessarily gives you big numbers, but of course we never know with WSJ, only the future will tell.
Clearly that's the red pen Hokazono uses for all his color pages.What is that ?
here we go for another chihiro volume coverClearly that's the red pen Hokazono uses for all his color pages.
Lol guardian of the Witch was that high huhSHONEN JUMP SERIES WITH THE MOST MANGA PV VIEWS ON YOUTUBE!
Astro Royale 1st chapter has 175k views on Jump Plus so far after 2 days, good views, i was going to do a ranking but noticed that both Kill Blue and Nue's Exorcist 3 chapters trial were deleted due to the last free read promotion so there's not much point to do since it will be far from accurate, so decided to go with the Youtube PV ranking since the videos are still all up on Shonen Jump channel, in 4 days Astro PV has reached 155k which are pretty good numbers specially considering how lately these PV hasn't reached much higher views.
The ranking right now with all the last series available in the two Shonen Jump official channels on YT, all these numbers are from the manga PV that Jump always upload for a new series in the same day they start in the magazine, these are not from volume release PV or Vomic, and also, some very few series doesn't have a PV video anymore for whatever reason like Mitama Security, Kamio Yui, Jimoto, David-kun, Tanaka Seiji, Alice and Act-Age, this one for the obvious reason (everything related to the manga got deleted in the channels) and Jump didn't do PV for series before Act-Age.
The ranking:
1. Chainsaw Man (366k)
2. Jujutsu Kaisen (349k)
3. PPPPPP (339k)
4. Witch Watch (321k)
5. The Ichinose Family's Deadly Sins (309k)
6. Phantom Seer (293k)
7. Burn The Witch (290k)
8. Ruri Dragon (216k)
9. Guardian of the Witch (200k)
10. Mission: Yozakura Family (195k)
11. Ayakashi Triangle (191k)
12. Dear Anemone (178k)
13. The Elusive Samurai (168k)
14. Astro Royale (155k) - 4 Days
15. Kagurabachi (142k)
16. Blue Box (135k)
17. Mashle (127k)
18. Dr. Stone Reboot: Byakuya (119k)
19. Super Smartphone (113k)
20. Me & Roboco (109k)
21. Undead Unluck (106k)
22. Zipman!! (106k)
23. Hard-Boiled Cop & Dolphin (102k)
24. Samurai 8 (97k)
25. Sakamoto Days (92k)
26. High School Family (74k)
27. Aliens Area (68k)
28. Red Hood (67k)
29. Do Retry (66k)
30. Ayashimon (63k)
31. Shadow Eliminators (62k)
32. Moriking (59k)
33. Time Paradox Ghostwriter (58k)
34. Akane Banashi (55k)
35. Magu-chan: God of Destruction (55k)
36. Agravity Boys (52k)
37. Bone Collection (52k)
38. MamaYuyu (47k)
39. Our Blood Oath (46k)
40. Nue's Exorcist (45k)
41. Fabricant 100 (45k)
42. Candy Flurry (45k)
43. Kill Blue (44k)
44. i tell c (44k)
45. Build King (41k)
46. Tokyo Shinobi Squad (41k)
47. Earthchild (37k)
48. Ichigoki's Under Control!! (35k)
49. Cipher Academy (34k)
50. Noah's Notes (33k)
51. Beast Children (29k)
52. Tokyo Demon Bride Story (28k)
53. Hell Warden Higuma (25k)
54. Ziga (25k)
55. Doron Dororon (24k)
56. Double Taisei (24k)
57. Martial Master Asumi (23k)
58. Tenmaku Cinema (23k)
59. The Last Saiyuki (22k)
60. Ice-Head Gill (22k)
61. Super Psychic Policeman Chojo (20k)
62. Ginka & Glüna (20k)
63. Green Green Greens (17k)
64. Neru: Way of the Martial Artist (17k)
65. Nine Dragons' Ball Parade (17k)
66. Momiji no Kisetsu (16k)
67. ne0;lation (14k)
68. Protect Me! Shugomaru (14k)
69. Two on Ice (12k)
70. Kimi wo Shinryaku Seyo! (7k)
Worth to notice that excluding short stuff, there's only 4 series in the Top 20 that were axed fast, so statistically Astro Royale already being the 14th most viewed PV in just 4 days seems to be a pretty good sign, and before "Wakui is a big author", the ranking itself shows that having a big name will not necessarily gives you big numbers, but of course we never know with WSJ, only the future will tell.
GotW being that high probably has to do with the Shingeki no Kyojin comparisons.Lol guardian of the Witch was that high huh
Thanks, so how many episodes do you think are needed to be the indicator for Yozakura anime's success.Is doing fine, everybody (besides maybe Shark kkk) knew it wouldn't do big things for the manga, so just the fact that we have backlog charting for days is something i already consider a victory, in fact it was a nice change of pace seeing 5ch actually talk about the series in a positive tone even if it's more to simply trash talk UU even more lol
One thing i'm interested is when they reach the first serious arc and that Taiyo big moment, if the staff do the job it might actually give a bigger boost considering it was also when the manga skyrocketed in the ToC rankings and sales increased, but these first episodes focused in introduction and comedy can just do so much.