Discussion Natsu Dragneel/E.N.D Thread

[smurf777]

we now know that Zeref's curse is from a god and since Natsu is supposed to kill Zeref and destroy his curse the curse of god then that means that Natsu has a god slaying magic which explains how he ate and used Zancrow god slaying flames.
further more Natsu is one of Zeref's demons which means that his magic is effective against demons and that means that Natsu is a Dragon God Devil Slayer .

This thread has now been converted to discuss general topics about Natsu Dragneel - Holt

 

[SirSamuel016]

Its more just Zeref himself that Natsu has to overcome, but the curse may play a part in it. Even though the curse is from a god, I'd say that its more Natsu's Etherious Power that will allow him to break the curse and kill Zeref, rather than him having God Slayer Magic as well.

 

[Taorero]

I actually believe that Natsu is "nomathertheenemy slayer"

Back on topic... it is actually a very logical assumption, we still need to know how Natsu find himself under Igneel's care and his God Slaying magic might be dormant...

Now if he was made with the same idea as the devils from the book of Zeref does that mean that he is also a devil?, meaning possibily that the ultimate showdown could be between Natsu and Gray (if Natsu goes out of control?)

 

[SirSamuel016]

Now if he was made with the same idea as the devils from the book of Zeref does that mean that he is also a devil?, meaning possibily that the ultimate showdown could be between Natsu and Gray (if Natsu goes out of control?)

Lol if that were to happen I'd just Gray shouldn't be anywhere near close to Natsu in terms of power by the time Natsu is powerful enough to fight Zeref and Acnologia, END powers aside. Sure, Gray's magic is effective against Demons, but Natsu would still be way too powerful for him really.

 

[Taorero]

Lol if that were to happen I'd just Gray shouldn't be anywhere near close to Natsu in terms of power by the time Natsu is powerful enough to fight Zeref and Acnologia, END powers aside. Sure, Gray's magic is effective against Demons, but Natsu would still be way too powerful for him really.

But something could happened to Gray on the way, you never know... but lets be honest, you're probably right, it would be overkill and game over too quick

 

[kkck]

Well, people definitely seem to think the curse was from that ancserham god but we have no reference of ancsehram being a real being. We've never even heard of the guy until the last chapters. Its entirely plausible that zeref's curse was simply a side effect of some experiment he carried out or something and not the work of a god. Now, god's definitely exist considering there is god slayer magic but that is not proper evidence of this hypothetical ancsehram being a real thing.

 

[Impossibility]

This honestly doesn't make much sense. I don't know why he's being considered a Devil Slayer, since when has Devil Slayer Magic been necessary to defeat a demon. God Slayers are wielders of a very specific type of magic. Natsu doesn't utilise that type of magic. Therefore, Natsu isn't a God Slayer. It's unlikely to even be a requirement for someone to wield God Slayer Magic to defeat a god. It, like the other race-specific magics, is probably just helpful in that endeavour.

 

[sarutobi_sensei]

Yes Natsu is absolutely a Dragon God Demon You Name It Slayer.

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure that Erza, Gray and Lucy would be able to take care of the War God, but I have a feeling that War God is just a title. They are beings of extreme magical power, summons that require something greater than a contract to bring forth, but it doesn't mean they are invincible. I'm sure that others would've been able to take care of it.

Although the God Slayers are most likely used to fight against something like that specifically, but see what Natsu managed to do against Zancrow. He beat him by absorbing his magic. He could very well do the same to the War God itself.

 

[Holt]

Well, people definitely seem to think the curse was from that ancserham god but we have no reference of ancsehram being a real being. We've never even heard of the guy until the last chapters. Its entirely plausible that zeref's curse was simply a side effect of some experiment he carried out or something and not the work of a god. Now, god's definitely exist considering there is god slayer magic but that is not proper evidence of this hypothetical ancsehram being a real thing.

I had a similar thought as well. I feel the curse is a result of either something Zeref did or it's a sort of power he unconsciously imposed on himself. Either way, I have doubts that it was really imposed by a god. It's still a possibility though.

On-topic, it has never been the case that one has to be a slayer type to defeat the the correspoding species. We already have Tartaros demons (who were Zeref's elites) being defeated by other mages. Also the thing about Natsu eating Zancrow's flames is quite irrelevant seeing as Zancrow was comfortably eating Natsu's flames. Being a slayer doesn't even guarantee being able to slay the being. It is helpful and more efficient against the being but it is not a sure-fire and neither does one need to be a slayer to defeat the being. If Natsu somehow turns out to be an all star Slayer, it wouldn't be because of the listed reasons.

 

[exxp]

"means that Natsu is a Dragon God Devil Slayer" ...?
Nah, correctly means that Natsu is a Troll-Based Slayer Magician. Not that it's a bad thing

 

[metsujin]

Well, people definitely seem to think the curse was from that ancserham god but we have no reference of ancsehram being a real being. We've never even heard of the guy until the last chapters. Its entirely plausible that zeref's curse was simply a side effect of some experiment he carried out or something and not the work of a god. Now, god's definitely exist considering there is god slayer magic but that is not proper evidence of this hypothetical ancsehram being a real thing.

The curse of Ankshelam was mentioned in Fairy Tail Zero Chapter 7. Though it may be true what you said, there's still a possibility that he got cursed by this god. On topic to the thread, you can defeat demons with other magic. Slayer based magic is more effective to a certain type of foe. Example Gray didn't need to struggle much against Tempesta, since his Devil Slayer Magic is the most effective against demons. One thing is for sure, Dragon Slayers are the most powerful among the other slayers. For one, dragons taught humans the magic to slay them. The other Slayer magics either were taught by someone else (not by a God or Demon, ex Zancrow taught by Hades/Purehito a human), or self taught (Chelia, possibly Orga too), or Gray's case "learned" it from his father. So you can say that the original slayer magic is Dragon Slayer Magic, and the rest are "rip-off" of it.

 

[kkck]

The curse of Ankshelam was mentioned in Fairy Tail Zero Chapter 7. Though it may be true what you said, there's still a possibility that he got cursed by this god. On topic to the thread, you can defeat demons with other magic. Slayer based magic is more effective to a certain type of foe. Example Gray didn't need to struggle much against Tempesta, since his Devil Slayer Magic is the most effective against demons. One thing is for sure, Dragon Slayers are the most powerful among the other slayers. For one, dragons taught humans the magic to slay them. The other Slayer magics either were taught by someone else (not by a God or Demon, ex Zancrow taught by Hades/Purehito a human), or self taught (Chelia, possibly Orga too), or Gray's case "learned" it from his father. So you can say that the original slayer magic is Dragon Slayer Magic, and the rest are "rip-off" of it.

True, other magics can potentially defeat a god. Although in those cases you need to match the creature in terms of pure raw power. A effective slayer magic allows for your magic to be effective even when there is a considerable difference in power.

I don't see the relevance of who taught the magic when it comes to how good it is. The manga has yet to actually make that point in a convincing manner. Not to mention that the other types of slayer magics we have seen seem to be every bit as effective as they are supposed to be. If there is a difference it wouldn't be at the base level. The difference as far as I can tell would be dragonification and dragon force. Well, grey was seen turning into a demon but demons turning into one might not be as effective as turning into a dragon if a demon by itself is not as powerful as a dragon. Then there is the issue of dragon force which seems to be the actual power of a dragon.

 

[metsujin]

True, other magics can potentially defeat a god. Although in those cases you need to match the creature in terms of pure raw power. A effective slayer magic allows for your magic to be effective even when there is a considerable difference in power.

I don't see the relevance of who taught the magic when it comes to how good it is. The manga has yet to actually make that point in a convincing manner. Not to mention that the other types of slayer magics we have seen seem to be every bit as effective as they are supposed to be. If there is a difference it wouldn't be at the base level. The difference as far as I can tell would be dragonification and dragon force. Well, grey was seen turning into a demon but demons turning into one might not be as effective as turning into a dragon if a demon by itself is not as powerful as a dragon. Then there is the issue of dragon force which seems to be the actual power of a dragon.

I believe that since the dragons were "sleeping" inside their dragon slayers. To prolong their lives (as Grandeene stated), they must have borrowed some of the dragon slayers magic. Because if you think about it, you need to be pretty strong (in terms of magic power), to defeat a dragon, we saw that dragon slayers couldn't slay any dragon (In GMG), but their magic was the most affective against them. Now Wendy can go Dragon Force without eating air which contains a strong magic power. Probably Natsu and Gajeel too can turn at will their DF now. That's because the dragons are not inside of them anymore. As for Sting and Rogue, and how they were able to do it, despite having their dragons inside. Is thanks to that Dragon Lacrima, that they have, they borrow the extra power from there. If you go on fairy tail wikia, it explains more about magic. How magicians "restore" their magic from the ethernano in the air, and such.

 

[kkck]

I believe that since the dragons were "sleeping" inside their dragon slayers. To prolong their lives (as Grandeene stated), they must have borrowed some of the dragon slayers magic. Because if you think about it, you need to be pretty strong (in terms of magic power), to defeat a dragon, we saw that dragon slayers couldn't slay any dragon (In GMG), but their magic was the most affective against them. Now Wendy can go Dragon Force without eating air which contains a strong magic power. Probably Natsu and Gajeel too can turn at will their DF now. That's because the dragons are not inside of them anymore. As for Sting and Rogue, and how they were able to do it, despite having their dragons inside. Is thanks to that Dragon Lacrima, that they have, they borrow the extra power from there. If you go on fairy tail wikia, it explains more about magic. How magicians "restore" their magic from the ethernano in the air, and such.

That does not seem to provide any context on why learning a magic from dragons directly would be better than learning it from other sources. The dragons being inside the DS comes after the fact so I doubt it relates to anything but the dragons stopping dragonification. Dragon force seems to be more accessible now however its probable that dragon force itself was related to slayers turning into dragons.

 

[metsujin]

That does not seem to provide any context on why learning a magic from dragons directly would be better than learning it from other sources. The dragons being inside the DS comes after the fact so I doubt it relates to anything but the dragons stopping dragonification. Dragon force seems to be more accessible now however its probable that dragon force itself was related to slayers turning into dragons.

That was just a theory I had haha Might be so, because in the Oracion Seis Arc, Zero says that DF is the final form of a dragon slayers, and it's power it's equivalent to that of dragon, and the power to destroy the world. Or something along those lines. Okay, but what about Laxus and Cobra?? Let's say Natsu and the rest had the excuse of the dragons being inside them, and DF couldn't reach the full potential. But what about those two?? Let's take Acnologia for a example, some dragon taught him this, and he used too much dragon slayer magic, and ultimately transformed into one. Now the magic is pretty much "lost", since the only way obtaining it, is via a dragon's Lacrima. And here's my point. The other slayers, learned it from different people, or self taught. But dragon slayers learn it from the original source, from the ones that "created" it (and how it's shown in chapter 301, when Zirconis explains how the "birth" of the dragon slayer magic starts, and says "Dragons gave humans to magic to slay dragons") except Laxus and Cobra which have dragon Lacrima inside of them. Where I'm getting with this is, GS magic and Devil slayer magic are learned from books (Gray's too possibly), the users don't have a Lacrima of a God or Demon inside them.

 

[Mangang]

I doesn't matter actually, Natsu can eat and defeat anyone by the power of nakama pis. He doesn't need god slaying magic to defeat a God like that fodder god appear in avatar arc, he doesn't need a demon slaying magic to defeat a demon.
Natsu has the strongest power in this manga I.e power of nakama pis.

 

[kkck]

That was just a theory I had haha Might be so, because in the Oracion Seis Arc, Zero says that DF is the final form of a dragon slayers, and it's power it's equivalent to that of dragon, and the power to destroy the world. Or something along those lines. Okay, but what about Laxus and Cobra?? Let's say Natsu and the rest had the excuse of the dragons being inside them, and DF couldn't reach the full potential. But what about those two?? Let's take Acnologia for a example, some dragon taught him this, and he used too much dragon slayer magic, and ultimately transformed into one. Now the magic is pretty much "lost", since the only way obtaining it, is via a dragon's Lacrima. And here's my point. The other slayers, learned it from different people, or self taught. But dragon slayers learn it from the original source, from the ones that "created" it (and how it's shown in chapter 301, when Zirconis explains how the "birth" of the dragon slayer magic starts, and says "Dragons gave humans to magic to slay dragons") except Laxus and Cobra which have dragon Lacrima inside of them. Where I'm getting with this is, GS magic and Devil slayer magic are learned from books (Gray's too possibly), the users don't have a Lacrima of a God or Demon inside them.

As far as we know dragon slayer magic was simply taught to humans by dragons. But if we consider the example of shelia, why would being taught by the one who came up with the magic make a difference at all? Even with lachrima DS their powers seem to be about the same as with natsu and the others, their magic has in no form or context been presented as weaker than that of other DSs. The only thing we have seen from normal dragon slayers that we have not seen in lachrima dragon slayers is DF. Igneel and the others were not inside the gang to make them stronger. If anything it would be the opposite considering they held back their transformation into dragons and apparently even dragon force. I mean, you scenario would imply that if natsu taught his magic to someone that learned magic would for whatever unspecified reason be inferior to the one natsu had, simply because natsu taught it rather than a dragon. To boot the implication so far is that other slayer magic carries the same risk as dragon slayer magic when it comes to transforming. Grey almost transformed into a demon and even now he is able to use a partial transformation of sorts (which might or not be an issue in the short run). It wouldn't be weird in the least if god slayers had the same risk too. The issue here I would argue is dragon force rather than the basic form of dragon slaying. The force so to speak seems to be unique to dragon slayers that were trained by dragons considering lachrima dragons so far have not used it (even though sting and rogue were able to use it thanks to the lachrima) and grey almost transformed into a demon without using anything similar. Dragon force might be related to dragon slaying magic but considering everything its origin just might be actual dragons, unlike the basic forms of slaying which can be learned from anyone or anything.

 

[metsujin]

As far as we know dragon slayer magic was simply taught to humans by dragons. But if we consider the example of shelia, why would being taught by the one who came up with the magic make a difference at all? Even with lachrima DS their powers seem to be about the same as with natsu and the others, their magic has in no form or context been presented as weaker than that of other DSs. The only thing we have seen from normal dragon slayers that we have not seen in lachrima dragon slayers is DF. Igneel and the others were not inside the gang to make them stronger. If anything it would be the opposite considering they held back their transformation into dragons and apparently even dragon force. I mean, you scenario would imply that if natsu taught his magic to someone that learned magic would for whatever unspecified reason be inferior to the one natsu had, simply because natsu taught it rather than a dragon. To boot the implication so far is that other slayer magic carries the same risk as dragon slayer magic when it comes to transforming. Grey almost transformed into a demon and even now he is able to use a partial transformation of sorts (which might or not be an issue in the short run). It wouldn't be weird in the least if god slayers had the same risk too. The issue here I would argue is dragon force rather than the basic form of dragon slaying. The force so to speak seems to be unique to dragon slayers that were trained by dragons considering lachrima dragons so far have not used it (even though sting and rogue were able to use it thanks to the lachrima) and grey almost transformed into a demon without using anything similar. Dragon force might be related to dragon slaying magic but considering everything its origin just might be actual dragons, unlike the basic forms of slaying which can be learned from anyone or anything.

I was trying to point that, the other learn it from books right? And since this is a lost magic, you can't really rely much on the books, since the magic is old. I really suck at explaining but, since the magic is old and you can only learn it from books (god slaying and devil slaying), the books are not the best "source", take example our history, you can imagine how things were idk thousand years ago, but we don't know if it's true or not, because we didn't live in that period, we can assume how thinks go, and we still try to discover this now in our time, so it's the same with the lost magic, basically (as far as we know) god slayers, devil slayers don't have God Force or Devil Force, that could help them boost their powers, and I don't think they use "Secret Art" magics so...Now for Gray's marks. Natsu hinted that, it might've been because he absorbed Mard Geer's attack and half of his body got demonized.

 

[Kuroro]

Why do people even think that God Slaying magic is a thing. It's just a copy of dragon slaying magic with a few advantages over them (Just look at zancrow who used an almost identical invocation as Natsu).

Dragon Slayers were probably seen as undefeatable gods and thus god slaying magic was created.

 

[Mighty Action X]

More like an ultimate slayer if you ask me. A being that can kill everything just like how Zeref created him.