Hangout Fairy Tail Hangout Thread

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Acnologia already had the power of an elite dragon at the time he was slaying dragons with his dragons slaying magic, prior to his dragonification. Therefore, Acnologia is not Acnologia because he inherited the power of a dragon. He is who he is because he inherited dragon slaying magic.

Dragon Slayer magic literally is inheriting the power of a dragon. Prior to teaching it to the humans, dragon slayer magic was magic that was exclusive to the dragons. It was the dragon's power. A dragon slayer is a human using a dragon's power: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v18/c150/9.html

Acnologia's an example of a Dragon King. All things considered, Acnologia's actual power level should be around Igneel's. The only reason he didn't have to fight Igneel the first time around was because he had magic that could steal their souls. Igneel in his prime probably could have given a much harder fight to Acnologia, possibly even tied him. They were on the same level when they fought during Tartarus. Sure, to be on the level of a weaker dragon like the GMG ones, Acnologia can probably do it as a human. However to face the strongest of dragons, Acnologia used his dragon form.

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Dragon Slayer magic literally is inheriting the power of a dragon.

No, different, Acnologia would still be as strong as he is now without his dragon form. He is a Natsu that can beat Igneel. All he needs is his dragon slaying magic and he is strong enough to beat Igneel.

Acnologia is not a dragon, he is a human. Acnologia is in a class of his own. Acnologia is Acnologia, he is no dragon. He takes the personification of a dragon or an image of a dragon that's basically all.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

I may have mislead you. Deliora was not in Ice Trail, so you didn't miss on anything. Although what I am about to explain is something that everybody in this forum and the community should know. This is my most important comment that I will probably ever say on this forum.


First to let everybody know about Acnologia. When you compare anything to Dragons, you can only talk about the typical dragons all the way up to Igneel. You can't talk about Acnologia because he is one of a kind and I will explain.

Acnologia was once a human and inherited dragon slaying magic much like Nastu. The difference is that he wasn't as strong as we know him because he was a dragon. Acnologia was not a strong dragon, but a strong human.

Acnologia already had the power of an elite dragon at the time he was slaying dragons with his dragons slaying magic, prior to his dragonification. Therefore, Acnologia is not Acnologia because he inherited the power of a dragon. He is who he is because he inherited dragon slaying magic.

So Acnologia is not an example of a dragon because he is in a class of his own, he destroyed the entire dragon race by himself before turning into a dragon.

That means that his raw strength and magical power exceeded that of a dragon regardless of his physical body and look.

I get that anything I say is not of much use, so I don't have to continue this any further, but this is where I stand now.

If we're talking about proper dragons like Igneel, lets think about his fight with Acnologia in Tartaros. Igneel, who was half dead and had only a minuscule fraction of his power, as was stated by the other dragons, fought on par with Acnologia for most of their fight until the end when he ran out of what little strength remained. This same, half-dead Igneel, pinned Acnologia down at one point during their fight after whacking him around a fair bit. If Igneel who was at around 5% and half-dead could match Acnologia in a fight until he ran out of strength by mainly just pure physical strength, then imagine the sheer power of Igneel when he was alive and at 100%. He'd of been able to decimate Acnologia fairly easily going off their battle in Tartaros. Whether Acnologia was 100% serious is debatable, but you can't deny that a half-dead dragon with practically no strength left that managed to nearly defeat one of the biggest threats in the world, and rip his arm off, would be incredibly strong. Deliora's power is nothing compared to what a dragon like Igneel would've been capable of back in the day.

 

[Holt]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

No, different, Acnologia would still be as strong as he is now without his dragon form. He is a Natsu that can beat Igneel. All he needs is his dragon slaying magic and he is strong enough to beat Igneel.

Acnologia is not a dragon, he is a human. Acnologia is in a class of his own. Acnologia is Acnologia, he is no dragon. He takes the personification of a dragon or an image of a dragon that's basically all.

Well that's a fair point but odds are, Acnologia as a dragon makes him even stronger. Acnologia slaying dragons wasn't entirely special considering it was also said that the Dragon slayers of old could also slay dragons. Acnologia simply killed a lot more than the others (which could be due to him being more powerful or just simply being more eager to slay dragons). Still, Acnologia himself has said that he hates dragons, so why would he assume the form of one seeing as he can switch to his human form? That implies that as a dragon, he is even stronger and has more advantages (flight, sheer physical might etc).

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Acnologia's dragon form is his dragon slayer magic. They are not different things. Dragon Slayer magic is literally magic that converts your body into that of a dragon. This allows you to wield the power of a dragon. This was stated in the first chapter: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v01/c001/64.html. To boil Acnologia's dragon form down to a costume choice, when you know the main feature of dragon slayer magic is to transform your body into a dragon to use its power, is to miss the entire point.

It's just that the physical changes are not visible at lower levels. Only on higher levels, like dragon force, do you see it. More than likely, Acnologia's dragon form is just his dragon force. You can actually see the progression of dragonizing in Natsu's dragon force. During the Tower of Heaven, Natsu's scales only covered a bit of his face and arms. During the Tartarus arc, the dragonization was significantly increased. Then with the movie promotional image, described as a "dragon force-level teaser", we see Natsu half dragonized. Acnologia's dragon force is a full dragon because he is simply that powerful. He can completely wield the power of a dragon, as opposed to partially wield it. However, the difference between human Acnologia and dragon Acnologia should be the difference between DF Natsu and regular Natsu.

Dragon Slayers literally use the same power as their parent dragon. That is why Atlas Flame recognizes Natsu's power as Igneel's. That is why Zilconis recognizes Wendy's magic as Grandeeney's. This is why Dragon Force has been stated over and over again to give the wielder the power of a dragon. Acnologia, and all dragon slayers, are humans wielding the power of a dragon.

 

[Nizen]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Although its debatable, in my honest opinion, I think that Deliora is weaker than the dragons. He is just a brainless and a lil' below par version of Mard Geer. Basically, Silver, Ultear and Deliora are of the same tier and very close to Ul. Sure, in terms of strength, Deliora was one of the strongest Etherious alive (that is why it took Ul, one of the strongest wizards back then to use a suicidal move, i.e. Iced Shell to defeat him) and Gray, in his current state, would probably rank just below Mard (if we take only demons and DeS into consideration). Presumably, when Gray enters "that" state like the one at the end of Tartarus, he is on par with Mard. This is exactly like saying base form Natsu is weaker than DF Natsu. Also, I would say that the molding wizard side of Gray is on the verge of surpassing Ul, if that has not happened already. Overall, Gray has become really, really strong and his progress is better than the likes of Gajeel or Lucy. He simply cannot be compared to some undeveloped character like Juvia. However, I fail to compare him to DF DS(s).


Come to think of it, the rivalry between Natsu and Gray/Gajeel was created in the first place so that they would compare to his demon or DS side. This part of the rivalry is somewhat progressing now, btw. And definitely, it will reach a point where Gray will be just as strong as a dragon. He needs to be on par or almost on par with END so this is bound to happen. So like I have said in some other thread, at the end of the series, the comparison shall be drawn between END and Gray and between the DS side of Natsu and Gajeel. So in both of these cases, Gray, Natsu and Gajeel are destined to be stronger than Laxus/Gildarts and hence, the strongest in the entirety of Fairy Tail.

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

It true that I don't have any facts over whether demons or dragons are stronger, although there is no way Deliora is weaker than your average or higher tier dragon. It was lack of screen time that Deliora seems weak. Also keep in mind that the Deliora you saw when you first watched FT was a monster that had been frozen for 5-7 plus years.

Again, talking about magical power, Deliora's roar is greater than that of a dragon, no joke. Deliora's size trumps the highest skyscraper in Isvan. Deliora didn't destroy one town like Brago, he was feared across the northern continent. To give you perspective, Fiore is a nation and not a continent, Ishgar is like a continent. Deliora raged havoc across the continent that his name was feared.

Even after destroying city after city and using a lot of magic, Ur encased him in Ice that zaps away his power. After all those years in that Ice, Deliora still managed to draw its last breaths.

The point is that there are weak and strong dragons and demons. Look at it this way. Etherious Lullaby was defeated by pre time skip Natsu Erza and Gray. The dragons that took over the world in the future timeline were one-shotted by Natsu. Igneel may be one of a kind, but imo:

Mard Geer and Deliora > CSK without immortality > Dragons from eclipse and maybe some dragons that trained the dragon slayers that we know.

If Gray actually believed that Silver could have been the human version of Silver (which in terms of power is not that hard to imagine), then that means Deliora has significant magic power.

This has never been proven and I can't say with certainty, but I think that if it came down to Silver with demon slaying magic vs Mard Geer or Deliora, Silver would be squashed. The fact that Mard Geer didn't see Silver as a threat showed that Mard Geer was confident he was superior.

Gray defeated Mard Geer with demon slaying but not without the help of CSK exhaustion, and Natsu, Sting, and Rogue to damage Mard Geer

Just like everything, although slaying magic is there for a reason, the result of a battle does not solely depend on it. Natsu used his raw strength to one shot the God of War, even God slayers like Orga, Chelia, and Zancrow would likely not have stood a chance against that, let alone one shot that even with all of their own god slaying magic. Even in a 3v1 the God of War is far more superior than all of those 3 with slaying magic

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Deliora's roar was street level. There were no skyscrapers. The houses in that town were small. Brago was by all means, a small town. It wasn't a huge blooming capital city like Crocus or Magnologia. The roar was actually relatively small:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v05/c037/16.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v05/c037/15.html
Motherglare's roar blew up a mountain:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c333/8.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c333/9.html
It's clear as day which attack was larger. Unless you can fit a mountain in the street that Deliora burnt, Motherglare's roar is larger. It's not even debatable. Not unless you purposely warp the scale of proportion.

Judging from the fact that it was the villagers who were gossiping, it seemed that Deliora just recently arrived at the Northern continent when Gray heard the news. That meant he couldn't have spent much time destroying stuff. He certainly didn't destroy the entire Northern continent: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v05/c037/9.html.
What? Somehow destroying several hundred targets over the span of a continent within seconds is less impressive than going from town to town?

Natsu never oneshotted a dragon. Ever. No, not even in the anime. He just hit a few of them with glancing blows, and then one killed him. None of the dragons were actually defeated. Watch the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shx9hTSeHco.

How many times had CSK hit Mard Geer? None. How much damage did Sting and Rogue do to Mard Geer? Barely any. Mard's defeat is entirely contributed to Natsu and Gray's efforts, and even then it only took Gray 1 hit to seriously injure him. Natsu really only had the effect of throwing him around so that Gray could get a clear shot. Mard Geer is pretty much the strongest demon out their after END. It takes Acnologia an arm to slay a dragon of Igneel's level, and you want to say Mard Geer is definitely stronger than the higher level dragons?

Deliora died after being stuck 400 years in ice. Ice is supposed to preserve living tissue well. Deliora raised his hands and died. It's ridiculous that you want us to think that this is some sort of major achievement. Atlas Flame was already dead when Silver froze him, and yet even with just his soul he was able to melt all of Silver's ice. That's a display of powerful risidual power. Atlas Flame's ghost > Deliora. The parent dragons survived 400 years after having their soul sucked out from Acnologia, and then a few more years sealed inside a human. Then they come out and disable Ishgar's super-weapon in seconds. You want us to say that Deliora is more powerful because he died after being released? If anything that just goes to show how much Gray and Lyon overestimated Deliora.

Igneel and the rest of the dragons got their souls stolen by Acnologia. Yet, even in their half dead state, 4 of them were able to crush 3000 targets over an entire continent. Igneel himself was able to duke it out with Acnologia for 20 minutes, knock him down once, and then bite off an arm. 4 dragons was all it takes to completely shut down Mard Geer's master plan. Acnologia alone was able to conquer the world in Rogue's timeline, and Rogue was confident that his 7 dragons were enough to take out Acnologia. He even said that only a dragon can stand a chance against Acnologia, and Rogue is someone who fought against Mard. And guess what? Igneel is just a single dragon, and he can stand toe to toe with Acnologia. You want to argue whether demons or dragons are stronger? There's no contest. Let me break it down though:

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

You just said you have no facts, and then go on to say there is no way Deliora is weaker than your higher level dragon. How do you not see the inconsistency in that.

Deliora's roar was street level. There were no skyscrapers. The houses in that town were small. Brago was by all means, a small town. It wasn't a huge blooming capital city like Crocus or Magnologia. The roar was actually relatively small:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v05/c037/16.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v05/c037/15.html
Motherglare's roar blew up a mountain:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c333/8.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c333/9.html
It's clear as day which attack was larger. Unless you can fit a mountain in the street that Deliora burnt, Motherglare's roar is larger. It's not even debatable. Not unless you purposely warp the scale of proportion.

Judging from the fact that it was the villagers who were gossiping, it seemed that Deliora just recently arrived at the Northern continent when Gray heard the news. That meant he couldn't have spent much time destroying stuff. He certainly didn't destroy the entire Northern continent: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v05/c037/9.html.
What? Somehow destroying several hundred targets over the span of a continent within seconds is less impressive than going from town to town?

Natsu never oneshotted a dragon. Ever. No, not even in the anime. He just hit a few of them with glancing blows, and then one killed him. None of the dragons were actually defeated. Watch the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shx9hTSeHco.

How many times had CSK hit Mard Geer? None. How much damage did Sting and Rogue do to Mard Geer? Barely any. Dragon force Natsu was able to kick around Mard until he ran out of power. Dragons don't run out of power like Natsu would. Mard was rekt by a demon slayer of Gray's level. Even the weakest of dragons can basically troll a dragon slayer of Laxus' level.

Atlas Flame was already dead when Silver froze him, and yet even with just his soul he was able to melt all of Silver's ice. Deliora raised his hands and died. Atlas Flame's ghost > Deliora. Deliora died after being stuck 400 years in ice. Ice is supposed to preserve living tissue well. The parent dragons survived 400 years after having their soul sucked out from Acnologia, and then a few more years sealed inside a human. Then they come out and disable Ishgar's super-weapon in seconds. Game over.

Igneel and the rest of the dragons got their souls stolen by Acnologia. Yet, even in their half dead state, 4 of them were able to crush 3000 targets over an entire continent. Igneel himself was able to duke it out with Acnologia for 20 minutes, knock him down once, and then bite off an arm. 4 dragons was all it takes to completely shut down Mard Geer's master plan. Acnologia alone was able to conquer the world in Rogue's timeline, and Rogue was confident that his 7 dragons were enough to take out Acnologia. He even said that only a dragon can stand a chance against Acnologia, and Rogue is someone who fought against Mard. And guess what? Igneel is just a single dragon, and he can stand toe to toe with Acnologia. You want to argue whether demons or dragons are stronger? There's no contest.

That's hypocritical. Of course a I don't have the facts because I'm not the creator, but neither do any of you guys. Can you find one instance where a demon lost against a dragon? That a demon is weaker than a dragon?

I may have exaggerated on the roar and size of Deliora, I'll admit, I lost to you on that one. Even so, the size of the destruction compared to the building aren't that much different. The pages and scenes you saw was the city already in ruins and destroyed. Even on the pages with the full view of the city beforehand, the building are relatively tall. Most of it is higher than Magnolia with the exception of Crocus (the capital of the west) and Kardia Cathedral.

I honestly have to say Motherglare had a significant advantage in its roar size because it is a flying creature. It had the advantage of arial view and a direct shot of the horizon.

On that page, yes, the villagers said that Deliora had just arrived. But do you remember that they were referring to just that area? What they said was right and shows you that Deliora made quick work of his destruction cuz he always moves around. The town that Deliora was ravaging and destroyed was not the same town that Gray considered his home town. Gray's home town was several months before that and it was the time Ur and Lyon found him in the ruins and took him in.

Idk what your point is about Mard Geer, CSK, Sting and Rogue. It is obvious that Mard Geer > CSK > Sting and Rogue.

Ok first of all. Atlas Flame did not melt Silver's Ice. That was totally Gray. You do know that Natsu could never come close to melting that ice, right? By the way, for all who don't know about ice, Gray didn't "melt" the ice either. He simply converted the ice and pulsed it through his body to transfer it out. Atlas Flame would hav pe been stuck and encased if Gray didn't break the Ice.

Again, Ishgar's super weapon wasn't physically durable for the weight of the dragons. The panic was only speed and not strength. The dragons could easily destroy those faces leaning against them. Their wings helped them destroy all of it.

If you know Gray's past well, you would know that Iced Shell is a forbidden magic with different properties than regular ice. Ice does preserve the living tissue, but the properties of Iced Shell specifically zaps your magic power continuously the longer you are encased in that Ice. That is exactly why the Moon Drip is useless. By the time the moon melts the ice, the victim inside would already have died.

That is Ice Magic 101.

The dragons are strong, I'm not denying it. Even if they are stronger than the demon race, it won't be by much. However, if you listened to Future Rogue, he didn't say his 7 dragons could defeat Acnologia. You serious? Even Future Rogue himself wouldn't say that. Future Rogue's original plan was to release 1000+ dragons or I forgot the exact number through the eclipse gate to defeat Acnologia. That was why he didn't want Lucy to shut it. Lucy cut the gate short when she sealed it which foiled Future Rogue's plan.

Who said Future Rogue fought against Mard? In the future timeline, the dragons passed through the eclipse gate before any of the events that we've seen afterwards. The future timeline consisted of GMG -> Eclipse -> Second Dragon Age. There was no such thing as Sun Village, Tartaros, Mard himself,parent dragons, and Alvarez.

Idk who fed you all of those made up nonsense about the severed future timeline that you just told me.

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Let's see, Ezel, Tempesta, Jackal, Torafusa, and Franmalth all lost to dragon slayers, whom are basically the children of the dragons. They are basically humans wielding a dragon's power, and they aren't even as strong as the dragons themselves.

Atlas Flame did melt Silver's ice. He thawed the village, and that wasn't Gray: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v41/c353/15.html.
Where does it say Iced Shell saps life force? I would like to see a quote. Either way, Atlas Flame can die and have his spirit frozen, and still have more life force after being frozen. Deliora dying after being thawed isn't all that impressive.

Each of the face weapon had enough magical power to drive Wendy into dragon force (whom then proceeded to own Ezel, a demon). Even after Wendy destroyed face, she wasn't able to destroy the magic behind it. There was enough magic in each of the face bombs to cause an explosion of this scale: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v44/c378/21.html.
The dragons not only smashed the physical structure, but were also able to destroy the magic itself. They each must have destroyed more than 500 of these things, and all that was over the distance of continent and in the timespan of a few seconds tops. This was a weapon system designed to destroy all magic on this continent. Annihilating it in seconds is loads more impressive than spending a day terrorizing a town of random nobodies.

Future Rogue did say 7 dragons were enough to take out Acnologia:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/16.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/17.html
Rogue's original plan was for 10,000 dragons. However, he admitted that controlling all 10,000 would have been too troublesome and that 7 was enough:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c328/14.html

Rogue fought against Mard. Tartarus would have still tried to revive END. Which meant that pretty muich everything that happened in Tartarus arc should have happened. Mard Geer would have existed even withou the Eclipse. He was created 400 years ago. There were never any dragons in Rogue's timeline: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c333/5.html

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Let's see, Ezel, Tempesta, Jackal, Torafusa, and Franmalth all lost to dragon slayers, whom are basically the children of the dragons. They are basically humans wielding a dragon's power, and they aren't even as strong as the dragons themselves.

Atlas Flame did melt Silver's ice. He thawed the village, and that wasn't Gray: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v41/c353/15.html.
Where does it say Iced Shell saps life force? I would like to see a quote. Either way, Atlas Flame can die and have his spirit frozen, and still have more life force after being frozen. Deliora dying after being thawed isn't all that impressive.

Each of the face weapon had enough magical power to drive Wendy into dragon force (whom then proceeded to own Ezel, a demon). Even after Wendy destroyed face, she wasn't able to destroy the magic behind it. There was enough magic in each of the face bombs to cause an explosion of this scale: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v44/c378/21.html.
The dragons not only smashed the physical structure, but were also able to destroy the magic itself. Thery each must have destroyed more than 500 of these things, and all that was over the distance of continent and in the timespan of a few seconds tops. That's loads more impressive than spending a day terrorizing a town of random people.

Future Rogue did say 7 dragons were enough to take out Acnologia:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/16.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/17.html
Rogue's original plan was for 10,000 dragons. However, he admitted that controlling all 10,000 would have been too troublesome and that 7 was enough:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c328/14.html

Rogue fought against Mard. Tartarus would have still tried to revive END. Which meant that pretty muich everything that happened in Tartarus arc should have happened. Mard Geer would have existed even withou the Eclipse. He was created 400 years ago. There were never any dragons in Rogue's timeline: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c333/5.html

Technically, the dragon slayer are supposed to beat their parent dragons because that is the idea behind their magic. But against a person or opponent with no significant advantage, the dragons may be stronger. But that is why Acnologia exceeded that of a dragon as a human, so it's possible. The dragon slayers probably don't have the proper training (aka semi trained dragon slayers) or they are not fully unleashed as a dragon slayer.

Atlas flame only melted the rest of the ice when he was already melted. Gray had to bail him out first before he can do that. It is as simple as that.

Wendy is a young Mage let alone she is not even a combatant Mage. For a structure that huge, of course it gives Wendy a challenge. Somebody like Metalicana or Skiadrum should have no problem leaning against it and smashing it. Idk what you mean by getting rid of the magic energy left behind. Wendy didn't need to absorb the magical energy when she destroyed it. If you destroy the structure, you destroy the magical energy and properties that go along with it.

Lol and you believe what Future Rogue says? Those wimpy dragons take out Acnologia? I don't think Future Rogue meant what he said, he was trying to convince himself cuz he realized he fell short and was f*cked the moment Lucy cut his plan short. Look at what happened to him in the end. He couldn't defeat the people at Eclipse, he has no chance against Acnologia let along somebody like Zeref and Alvarez.

From Rogues face you can tell he pretty much shi*ted his pants when he heard news of only 7 that had passed through. Just to let you know, one of the dragons that cam out was Zirconis and in the dragon graveyard, even as a ghost, Zirconis said that the mere name of Acnologia already struck fear in his heart.

Alright, you are correct on the future timeline, but we have no idea or clue that Future Rogue fought Mard Geer.

I just released the chapter, but unless Future Rogue was lying, he said that in the next 7 years, dragons ruled the world. That would contradict the Current Timeline Arc because the Second Future Timeline Arc entered the Second Dragon Age where in the Current Timeline Arc, Natsu stopped it by destroying the eclipse gate.

I'm not ruling out the fact Future a Rogue fought against Mard, but I give it an unlikely chance given that dragons infested Future Rogue's Timeline, unless again, he was lying when he told them that

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Dragon Slayers have no advantage over a dragon that another dragon doesn't have. Also, their magic wasn't designed to be used against their parent dragons. That's the last thing they were supposed to do. It was designed to be used against enemy dragons in the war. I made an entire post earlier on how dragon slayers use the exact same power as their parent dragons. In fact, they're basically turning their bodies into dragons to use their magic.

Wendy was able to destroy the physical structure of face, but the face bomb was still active. That's why Carla had to reconfigure face's power into an explosion. That's why Mest had to save them. Clearly Wendy wasn't able to destroy the magic behind face because face was still active after she destroyed it: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v44/c377/21.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v44/c377/22.html

Gray had to free Atlas Flame, yes. However, he was still able to melt all the ice in the village as a spirit. That's more impressive than Deliora, whom Lyon had to free with moon drip. Deliora just died.

No, I believe Rogue was overconfident. I don't believe he was lying about believing his 7 dragons would be enough, I believe he was wrong to believe it. Rogue didn't shit his pants when he heard only 7 dragons came through. He was basically ready to celebrate becoming the new king of the world. I'm starting to wonder if you just want to make me quote manga panels all day: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c332/17.html

We do know that no dragons came through in Rogue's timeline. He said they - I'm just going to show the panel:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/14.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/15.html

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Dragon Slayers have no advantage over a dragon that another dragon doesn't have. Also, their magic wasn't designed to be used against their parent dragons. That's the last thing they were supposed to do. It was designed to be used against enemy dragons in the war. I made an entire post earlier on how dragon slayers use the exact same power as their parent dragons. In fact, they're basically turning their bodies into dragons to use their magic.

Wendy was able to destroy the physical structure of face, but the face bomb was still active. That's why Carla had to reconfigure face's power into an explosion. That's why Mest had to save them. Clearly Wendy wasn't able to destroy the magic behind face because face was still active after she destroyed it: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v44/c377/21.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v44/c377/22.html

Gray had to free Atlas Flame, yes. However, he was still able to melt all the ice in the village as a spirit. That's more impressive than Deliora, whom Lyon had to free with moon drip. Deliora just died.

No, I believe Rogue was overconfident. I don't believe he was lying about believing his 7 dragons would be enough, I believe he was wrong to believe it. Rogue didn't shit his pants when he heard only 7 dragons came through. He was basically ready to celebrate becoming the new king of the world. I'm starting to wonder if you just want to make me quote manga panels all day: http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c332/17.html

We do know that no dragons came through in Rogue's timeline. He said they - I'm just going to show the panel:
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/14.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v39/c329/15.html

I never said the dragon slayers should kill their parent dragons. Their magic was specifically made to kill dragons. So in theory, by the end of the series, the dragon slayers should be able to beat the parent dragons and other dragons because that was what they were taught to do. If dragons were stronger than humans, why did the dragons ever even bother to teach human dragon slaying magic in the war of the dragon age.

Alright, again you got me, Wendy and Carla had to configure it. But it goes back to the same thing. The dragons didn't need to eliminate the magic energy of the structure and if they did do it somehow, then the amount of magic energy 1 Deliora has is enough to suffice and disarm face. There should be no reason the dragons can disarm it and Deliora cannot. The only factor is speed,the magic gap would have to be crazy and even so, if that's the case, the dragons shouldnt have been able to disarm it either then

Yeah Atlas Flame was a ghost, Deliora was not. What Deliora did was close to what Atlas Flame could do in his ghost form. If Deliora was in his ghost form, he'd do the job twice as better as Atlas Flame could. Again, Atlas Flame was encased in regular solid Ice. Deliora was encased in Iced Shell, an ice that will zap magical power from you. If you don't believe me, search it up.

Dude what are you talking about? Future Rogue lost and look at what happened to him in the end. He never faced Acnologia in combat, so he doesn't know how strong Acnologia is. He is a brat underestimating Acnologia. 7 dragons are not enough and Future Rogue paid the price when he believed it was enough. He was worried, so he changed the number of his original plan of 10000 to 7 lol.

For your last paragraph in the second panel, that just goes along with what I've been saying. Future Rogue released the weak dragons and tried to use them to battle Acnologia. Future Rogue wouldn't know that Acnologia trumps all the other dragons if he didn't try to do it himself. Future Rogue used his dragons to battle Acnologia in his timeline, it just turned out that Acnologia was the overall victor and Future Rogue failed. Which is why you don't take 7 Atlas Flames and challenge Acnologia.

You are serving Acnologia a silver platter full of dragon meat, you are giving him his dinner instead of a good beating. 7 Igneels and Skiadrums, you got Acnologia at your will......

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

There's no gaurantee that any of the dragon slayers will ever reach the level of their parents. That should only come with full dragonization. Just because they won't reach the level of their parent dragon, it doesn't mean they can't be stronger than other weaker dragons.

Demon Slayer ice was not regular ice. It too requires moon-drip to melt. I'm not going to entertain the idea of a hypothetical Deliora ghost form. Atlas Flame's living > Atlas Flame ghost. His ghost is his remaining essence.

Rogue only lost because Atlas Flame betrayed him, and the Eclipse gate was conveniently destroyed. If Rogue had done the smart thing, he would have called all the dragons back to gang up on just Atlas Flame. There's no way Atlas Flame would have out fought all 6 dragons if they ganged up on him. Future Rogue didn't have dragons...if he did, he wouldn't go back in time.

In a straight up fight, Acnologia was roughly on the same level as Igneel. Perhaps a fair bit stronger. Is it conceivable that if each dragon was roughly 20-30% of Igneel's power, that 7 of them would be a match for Acnologia? I would think so.

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

There's no gaurantee that any of the dragon slayers will ever reach the level of their parents. That should only come with full dragonization. Just because they won't reach the level of their parent dragon, it doesn't mean they can't be stronger than other weaker dragons.

Demon Slayer ice was not regular ice. It too requires moon-drip to melt. I'm not going to entertain the idea of a hypothetical Deliora ghost form. Atlas Flame's living > Atlas Flame ghost. His ghost is his remaining essence.

Rogue only lost because Atlas Flame betrayed him, and the Eclipse gate was conveniently destroyed. If Rogue had done the smart thing, he would have called all the dragons back to gang up on just Atlas Flame. There's no way Atlas Flame would have out fought all 6 dragons if they ganged up on him. Future Rogue didn't have dragons...if he did, he wouldn't go back in time.

In a straight up fight, Acnologia was roughly on the same level as Igneel. Perhaps a fair bit stronger. Is it conceivable that if each dragon was roughly 20-30% of Igneel's power, that 7 of them would be a match for Acnologia? I would think so.

Demon slayer ice cannot be melted. But it doesn't zap you from magical power, Iced Shell does that's the difference. Demon slayer ice is still regular solid ice, of course I know it can't be melted easily which is why Natsu couldn't. Iced Shell is different because it zaps your magic until you die eventually.

Idk what Future Rogue did, he couldn't defeat Acnologia with 7 dragons. Not like Atlas Flame at least. If we go by what you said, Future Rogue could have 10000000000 Igneels, but Acnologia can just destroy the a Eclipse Gate and make all 1000000000 Igneels disappear along with Future Rogue. Either way, Future Rogues plan was planned prematurely. He was too confident that all there is to say about it

Yes, Igneel may be stronger than Acnologia or maybe not. We don't know, but Acnologia beat the dragons in the future timeline, and if he didn't, the dragons didnt put up much of a fight against the Eclipse Alliance if you compare that to Acnologia.. Idk who would win, but 7 Atlas Flames vs 1 Acnologia, I put my bet that Acnologia has them beat..

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Tell me where it says it Iced Shell saps your magical power.

Future Rogue didn't do anything in his timeline except finish the Eclipse and go back in time. Acnologia didn't beat the dragons in the future timeline. There was no other dragons. The dragons only came from Lucy's timeline because she didn't close the gate. And yeah, destroying the Eclipse would have foiled Rogue's plan. This isn't something that Acnologia would really be aware of though.

Acnologia is probably stronger than Igneel. However, Igneel himself was on Acnologia's level. If each of the GMG dragons were roughly 20-30% of Igneel's power, then combined you could see how they might be able to stand up to Acnologia. They might not necessarily win, Igneel certainly didn't. However, they would have been on an even playing field.

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

Tell me where it says it Iced Shell saps your magical power.

Future Rogue didn't do anything in his timeline except finish the Eclipse and go back in time. Acnologia didn't beat the dragons in the future timeline. There was no other dragons. The dragons only came from Lucy's timeline because she didn't close the gate. And yeah, destroying the Eclipse would have foiled Rogue's plan. This isn't something that Acnologia would really be aware of though.

Acnologia is probably stronger than Igneel. However, Igneel himself was on Acnologia's level. If each of the GMG dragons were roughly 20-30% of Igneel's power, then combined you could see how they might be able to stand up to Acnologia. They might not necessarily win, Igneel certainly didn't. However, they would have been on an even playing field.

http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Iced_Shell

First paragraph in description, last sentence.

Words are clearer if you go back to the beginning of the storyline.

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

I meant from the manga. The wiki is not an official source.

---------- Post added at 06:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

Either way, Deliora didn't actually do anything. The dragons have been going 400 years without a soul and Atlas Flame was already dead, and they accomplished far more than what Deliora did.

 

[Nemispelled]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

I meant from the manga. The wiki is not an official source.

---------- Post added at 06:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

Either way, Deliora didn't actually do anything. The dragons have been going 400 years without a soul and Atlas Flame was already dead, and they accomplished far more than what Deliora did.

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Fairy-Tail/43?id=17023#14
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Fairy-Tail/43?id=17023#15

It also says in anime too, but doubt anybody wants to watch full episode. Besides, the manga is more official and canon than the anime is. Only thing is that anime it into words we can understand while manga uses fancy ways to explain what happens

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Laxus Dreyar Thread

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Fairy-Tail/43?id=17023#14
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Fairy-Tail/43?id=17023#15

It also says in anime too, but doubt anybody wants to watch full episode. Besides, the manga is more official and canon than the anime is. Only thing is that anime it into words we can understand while manga uses fancy ways to explain what happens

The manga doesn't say anything about draining magic. I've actually went out of my way and looked into the anime. It says life force, not magic. Deliora doesn't even use magic. He would be using curses. However, fine, I'll give you the point that Ur's ice can slowly drain its target's life force.

That still doesn't make Deliora that impressive. Put it into context. Atlas Flame was already dead. He would have only been a fraction of what he was when he was living, especially after being weakened further by SIlver's ice. Yet he was still able to gather enough power to thaw the entire village after being restored by a bit of Natsu's fire. The other dragons survived 400 years without a soul. They were half dead and were still capable of tearing up Ishgar's super-weapon. Igneel was even able to go toe to toe with Acnologia. I don't see why we should believe that Deliora was impressive because he died after being trapped 10 years in ice. If Deliora was truly as strong as you said he was then he should be flying around continents within seconds or leaving behind ghosts whose magic can effect entire towns. Instead, he fell apart after raising his arm. We're supposed to put him on par with dragons because of that?