Shounen Dragon Ball Super

[kkck]

Korean scans of Chapter 11. Not very interesting now that the anime is far ahead...



You mean the manga or the episode? It's easily the most liked episode since DBS is airing.

Spoiler

I mean the anime episode. Well, I saw most of the hit fight... Goku used kaio ken times 10 when using SSB.... it is ridiculous. IIRC the daizenshu made the point that the original SS increased goku's power 50 times (I never got how that worked with the mastered SS form though, it seems to be a lot more nowadays), the SS2 then doubled the power and then the SS3 yet again quadrupled the power. Now you have goku just using kaio ken times ten, a boost far greater than the whole provided goku's SS3... And it is literally something that only happened in filler before... How is it that goku even needs ten times his SSB power to beat beerus? It seems way to extreme considering whis has said that goku and vegeta together have a chance of winning... And to boot, hit also never had to train to grow stronger and all that, he is a freeza repeat.

 

[Demonspeed]

It's out.

 

[kkck]

Ok, question here:

The new films, anime and manga have introduced us to several new concepts. We basically have the super saiyan god, the red form used in the film, the super saiyan beyond god, which is a saiyan who has acquired god ki, and the super saiyan blue. My question is how exactly the forms compare to one another. Well, obviously SSB is stronger than SSBG but how would either of them compare to the original SSG we saw? We saw goku fight pretty well against berus at that point. However even now in the manga and anime the implication is that even as SSB goku simply can't match up to beerus. If anything the anime took it further and the fact is goku does not even come close to comparing (though SSB kai ken might change that).

 

[XXGenesis]

Where'd you get 3 forms from??

Original Super Sayain God (Red) Strongest Person Beerus ever fought...Monaka was a lie so Goku was Beerus toughest opponenet..***In a interview Toriyama says he believes the color Red is stronger than Blue..

Super Sayain Blue (God Ki)
Not as strong as Super Sayain God, but uses God Ki. Much stronger than regular super Sayain mode.

*Super Sayain Blue Kioa Ken(Goku)
Very vicious...Unfortunately The Gods still are above this level...

Power Lvs are driven by the plot so much they don't exist anymore. it's just this person or form is stronger than that person....

*Akira obviously rectconed the movie showings of SSG & SSGB, with DBS anime/manga. And never out right answers fans questions but yea..The Original is still the stronger form

 

[Demonspeed]

No, SSB is stronger. Goku and Vegeta won't have red hair anymore now that they are accustomed to Godly Ki.

 

[Zehahaha]

Isn't SSB just a SSG with the ability to use SS which means it is stronger than SSG ? Kinda lost now
Technically SSB alone should be enough to beat Beerus going by what he said himself about how he used like 70% against Goku with SSG

With SSB + Kaioken, he should be definitely stronger than Beerus

 

[Demon Hunter]

Super Saiyan God is basically a deity like Beerus. Super Saiyan Blue is a Super Saiyan transformation with the power of a Super Saiyan God but not the full power of a SSG.

 

[BASED Shinigami]

Isn't SSB just a SSG with the ability to use SS which means it is stronger than SSG ? Kinda lost now
Technically SSB alone should be enough to beat Beerus going by what he said himself about how he used like 70% against Goku with SSG

With SSB + Kaioken, he should be definitely stronger than Beerus

Goku should be stronger when he uses SSB + Kaioken, but his form would not last long enough to take down Beerus. He couldn't even take down Hit before reaching his limit.

 

[kkck]

Super Saiyan God is basically a deity like Beerus. Super Saiyan Blue is a Super Saiyan transformation with the power of a Super Saiyan God but not the full power of a SSG.

I am not so sure this is entirely correct. Rather than actual god ki, I think goku and vegeta are using a variation of it. When it comes to gods, mortals supposedly can't feel their power. In turn we have cases of non gods being able to feel their power.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 22, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 22, 2016 ---

Goku should be stronger when he uses SSB + Kaioken, but his form would not last long enough to take down Beerus. He couldn't even take down Hit before reaching his limit.

This is one of the weird parts of the manga for me.... If SSB is anywhere in the same realm as beerus then goku with SSB + KK should easily surpass him. Goku would need to have less than a tenth of beerus's power to not be able to fight evenly... If goku has, say, a third of the power berus has then he should be easily capable of handling berus with KK. The limited time shouldn't even be an issue considering the sheer difference in power. Of course, that should have been the case against hit as well....

 

[Demon Hunter]

I am not so sure this is entirely correct. Rather than actual god ki, I think goku and vegeta are using a variation of it. When it comes to gods, mortals supposedly can't feel their power. In turn we have cases of non gods being able to feel their power.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 22, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 22, 2016 ---

yeah thats true. they combined God's Ki with their normal Ki. I think that is what they do.

 

[Zehahaha]

This Black Goku arc looks promising, let's see how it will unfold
Although the pacing in the past two episodes is horrible

 

[mattiaildivino]

Bringing future Trunks back is one of the best things they could do, I hope he even repaired #16 as that'd be an interesting device .
Yet, this whole tournament for all the universes really seems to be copied from DB Multiverse, not that it's a bad choice, but they should have just contacted the author in order to improve it (DBM, that is), instead of throwing out of the blue new godly forms which just screw the power levels
(PS: out of curiosity, how many people who follow DBS read or have read DB Multiverse? )

 

[Zehahaha]

Well in the manga, things went differently in the tournament
Goku was holding his own against Hit while using SSJ, and then he used SSG (red form) and after he beat Hit with SSB easily
In the anime Hit just kept increasing his time leap ability, it didn't happen in the manga

 

[kkck]

Well in the manga, things went differently in the tournament
Goku was holding his own against Hit while using SSJ, and then he used SSG (red form) and after he beat Hit with SSB easily
In the anime Hit just kept increasing his time leap ability, it didn't happen in the manga

Yeah, this is a weird development.... It seems rather arbitrary that the SSG form would be back now considering the manga had suggested that assimilating god ki made the SSBG his base form.

 

[Demonspeed]

The manga is a mess... It doesn't make any sense at all. Beerus said that SSJ Goku is much more powerful than Hit, who was the strongest U6 fighter not only because of his Time-Skip. So, Hit beat Vegeta who was in SSB despite the latter being even more powerful than SSJ Goku just because of his quick attacks? He had his Ki surrounding him so Hit's attacks should have not affected him or, affected him only barely, and it's the same for SSJ Goku. Plus Vegeta only used SSB to finish Cabba, how could he be that weakened after that? How could Goku use the red form again?



Hit is so unimpressive compared to the anime version too...

 

[Zehahaha]

The manga is a mess... It doesn't make any sense at all. Beerus said that SSJ Goku is much more powerful than Hit, who was the strongest U6 fighter not only because of his Time-Skip. So, Hit beat Vegeta who was in SSB despite the latter being even more powerful than SSJ Goku just because of his quick attacks? He had his Ki surrounding him so Hit's attacks should have not affected him or, affected him only barely, and it's the same for SSJ Goku. Plus Vegeta only used SSB to finish Cabba, how could he be that weakened after that? How could Goku use the red form again?



Hit is so unimpressive compared to the anime version too...

Anime version is bullshit tho, him increasing the duration of his time leap everytime... That was bullshit, the only problem I have with the manga is how SSB Vegeta got pwned, other than that his fight vs Goku was good and made sense

Right now Hit is the strongest fighter excluding Beerus/Champa/Whis/Vados (based on the anime), however it makes sense that Goku/Vegeta are stronger

Man the pacing of the new arc sucks so much... Things are going so slowly

 

[kkck]

The manga is a mess... It doesn't make any sense at all. Beerus said that SSJ Goku is much more powerful than Hit, who was the strongest U6 fighter not only because of his Time-Skip. So, Hit beat Vegeta who was in SSB despite the latter being even more powerful than SSJ Goku just because of his quick attacks? He had his Ki surrounding him so Hit's attacks should have not affected him or, affected him only barely, and it's the same for SSJ Goku. Plus Vegeta only used SSB to finish Cabba, how could he be that weakened after that? How could Goku use the red form again?



Hit is so unimpressive compared to the anime version too...

I would argue the manga version makes a bit more sense than the anime version. Safe for the SSG transformation which sort of shouldn't be a thing anymore (because that was their base form now). The anime had SSBKKX10, that should have vastly and instantly outclassed even even in spite of the timeskip. I mean, ok, goku gets paralized for a second but that ends and goku should have ended him.... The SSB was said to be stressful which sort of makes sense with vegeta being defeated, specially considering even the anime made the point that hit was weaker than either goku or vegeta IIRC. Of course, in the end the issue is that both the anime and manga are inconsistent messes....

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't see how the manga makes more sense. Maybe Kaioken SSBx10 is a bit ridiculous but I am used to these kind of things in shonen and Dragon Ball. Hit perfecting his technique during combat because he had never been in such a situation before is reasonable as well IMO, it's nothing new.

Hit has never been said to be weaker than Goku and Vegeta in SSB. As @Zehahaha said Vegeta losing like that makes no sense considering the power gap, I don't see how he'd have less than a 10th of his full power because he used it to OHKO Cabba as well.

In the anime, Hit's Ki never grows stronger, he was already the strongest because of his more powerful Ki, at the level of a SSB. He evolved during battle by perfecting his Time-Skip and fighting style. In the manga, Hit is hiding his power and should be at a level comparable to Base Cabba since he is outclassed by SSJ Goku in terms of power. If even SSJ Goku could take Hit's attacks like that, how could SSB Vegeta, even with a tenth of his power be affected like that?

In the anime, the one thing which can be considered illogical to an extent(IMO) is the fact that Hit tanked so many of Goku's attacks, but in the end this is just a matter of durability so even that I can accept. Hit's blows on Goku were damaging him because of his consecutive attacks during the extended Time-Skips, Goku outclasses him in raw power but Hit barely manages to keep up because of his better Time-Skip, Goku decides to give up because he realizes that Hit couldn't use deadly moves even though he was able to finish him. In the manga, Vegeta's loss, his huge loss of power and Goku's transformation make no sense.

 

[Zehahaha]

The problem was that such a hax technique kept getting even more hax and hax, as far as I know only Whis/Vados and some Time Kaioshin can control time (I guess the Omni King too is able to do it)

There's a fine line between improving the technique, and just increasing the time everytime just like that... I honestly felt he is stronger than Beerus and Champa

I give it to you that turning to SSG may have been illogical in the manga, same as Vegeta's defeat... However it makes sense for a technique as hax as time leap to have the limitations mentioned in the manga (aka it works only people of equal or less power than the caster), in the anime there was no mention of such limitation which made Hit looks invincible (since he was not allowed to kill in the tournament)

 

[kkck]

The problem was that such a hax technique kept getting even more hax and hax, as far as I know only Whis/Vados and some Time Kaioshin can control time (I guess the Omni King too is able to do it)

There's a fine line between improving the technique, and just increasing the time everytime just like that... I honestly felt he is stronger than Beerus and Champa

I give it to you that turning to SSG may have been illogical in the manga, same as Vegeta's defeat... However it makes sense for a technique as hax as time leap to have the limitations mentioned in the manga (aka it works only people of equal or less power than the caster), in the anime there was no mention of such limitation which made Hit looks invincible (since he was not allowed to kill in the tournament)

Well, the guy basically pulled a frieza... He had never had a need to train so now that he had to push himself he got stronger and stronger arbitrarily. It's something that can make sense in the context of the story but for the most part makes for rather lazy writing if used too much. It was passable the first time with frieza but then seeing it again and happening by the second is just boring.