I'm not too clear on this one. Assuming that Gajeel can go DF at will and stay in that form for as long as he wants, he's going to be a tough/formidable opponent.
We haven't seen many feats from his DF form, but it's a reasonable assumption to conclude that he can match high-tier Spriggans and potentially even top-tiered Spriggans in that form. (Not August, but maybe Irene and Larcade)
I'm going to give Gajeel the benefit of the doubt here, mainly due to the lack of feats.
It's safe for me to say that Gray and Gajeel tie this match.
Tough one, assuming Gajeel's proficiency with DF is equal to Wendy/Sting/Rogue's(which i seriously hope it is, would be embarrassing otherwise)
In pure physicals and CQC i give it to Gajeel easy, he literally obliterated Bradman, not even giving him a chance to retaliate. If Gray has time to pull out Destruction Fist first though they could prob clash evenly assuming the boost from being in DeS mode makes up for not having Invel's ice powering it.
At range Gray definitely has the advantage, those homing Ice Bullets and Ice Prison thing he used on END looked damn powerful.
Speed i'll give to Gajeel, since Invel was able to react to Gray and pull out Ice Armor, while Bradman couldnt do anything when faced with DF Gajeel, plus Gajeel's panel just made it look like he was moving faster.
Durability i'll give to Gajeel as well, since Gray had resist to Invel's attacks and likely END's as well.
Intelligence obviously goes to Gray, the guy was outsmarting END at every turn, and could likely do the same to Gajeel.
Tbh it could go either way, i'm leaning toward Gajeel just cause his Iron Scales gives him a good edge in defense over Gray, but looking a Gray's fight against END, i cant help feeling Gray looked more impressive, his spells and tactics were badass. So i'll call it a draw as well.
Nice to see you @Brandish making a thread after a long time.
Now i will give this battle to Gray high diff.He fought with partial END on equal terms(though he was put in trouble and his magic was destroyed once or twice as far as i remember) because he had Slaying advantages which he will not have against Gajeel.
But there again he easily destroyed a mid tier Spriggan Invel so i believe Gray will win.
Gajeel will not be an easy opponent and he will push Gray to the limits.But ultimately Gray wins against Gajeel high diff.
I'm leaning towards a tie for now. Imo they are about equal.
I'll give Gray a slight edge due to the versatility of his magic and his intelligence in battle. On the other hand, Gajeel probably has the higher durability, and could be troublesome if he goes into shadow mode.
I voted for a tie. I do believe Dragon Force is superior to Demonising, but I also believe Gray is currently stronger than Gajeel (magically). Also, DF probably doesn't last as long, and I'm not sure if Gajeel can beat Gray quick enough (Gray stood toe to toe with END). If I had to pick one, I would pick Gray due to weight of feats, but I do think they're about the same.
I voted for a tie. I do believe Dragon Force is superior to Demonising, but I also believe Gray is currently stronger than Gajeel (magically). Also, DF probably doesn't last as long, and I'm not sure if Gajeel can beat Gray quick enough (Gray stood toe to toe with END). If I had to pick one, I would pick Gray due to weight of feats, but I do think they're about the same.
I dunno about that, you see Wendy vs historia Ezel? Despite being completely trashed on the floor she was able to maintain DF, seems she is able to do it almost effortlessly. Gajeel may not have the same amount of experience as her, but he is more powerful.
I dunno about that, you see Wendy vs historia Ezel? Despite being completely trashed on the floor she was able to maintain DF, seems she is able to do it almost effortlessly. Gajeel may not have the same amount of experience as her, but he is more powerful.
That's probably true, since they have more MP now too they can probably keep it going for a while. So I'll concede Gajeel can stay DF for a good while (just as Sting/Rogue did, along with Wendy).
I'm getting it confused with DF when someone eats power to enter it, that usually doesn't last long
I think that probably goes to Laxus or Gildarts really.
Yeah, it seems like a tough fight. Gray's ability to fight END probably gives him the slight advantage. I certainly don't think Gajeel could perform as well in the same situation. Still, it would be a close fight.
Gray will take this after a very tough fight. Gajeel at the peak of his DF (if we were to believe that was the form he attained vs Bradman) prowess, could very well match current Gray, or maybe even surpass him. However, I'm more confident Gray can defeat Gajeel as Gray simply has more consistent display of solid feats throughout the story.
Mashima has certainly portrayed Natsu and Gray to be very close and rough equal in terms of power since Tartaros arc. We have to remember Natsu easily destroyed the whole building the former Magic Council chairman reside in with a simple punch. And lifted a ginormous boulder and repeatedly use it to slam Franmalth to defeat him. Gray, together with Natsu, used their bare fists and pure strength to completely shatter some of Mard's offensive spells in the final fight of the arc then. Just their combined punches were causing shockwave which destroyed their surroundings too.
Moving forward to Avatar, Gray and Natsu were clashing on seemingly equal footing. Neither of them got out of first gear, definitely not Gray because we knew afterwards he was only pulling a fake heel turn. This is a Natsu who melted the entire GMG stadium and casually OHKO Bluenote after a year of supposedly hellacious training. And now at the present, we can see that despite being overwhelmed momentarily by END at a few instances, Gray was never in genuine danger of receiving a fatal blow that could put him out of commission. Instead he displayed with his tactical synergy and creative offense, he can stop and push Natsu back.
I think after all the initial soap opera, Mashima did well to display their respective stength and both can hurt each other in their ways. Natsu in more straightforward, head-on style, and Gray with rather dynamic and innovative methods. This can be the trend I see occuring if Gray and Gajeel were to clash. Except Gajeel aren't as magically or physically powerful as Natsu.
I can visualize Gajeel perhaps having the edge in terms of brute force, raw speed and durability. But Gray's offensive strength as a whole is not inferior to Gajeel, especially when we take into account his versatility and wide variety of spells he could employ in battle. Some of Gray's physical abilities tend to get overlooked often too. Especially his endurance and stamina. Over the course of a whole story, Gray has almost always participated in more than one lengthy fight in each arc.
Multiple fights with Lyon on Galuna island. He fought Jose's shadow troopers, went on to beat Juvia, then helped out against Jose at the end in the war with Phantom. Fighting Caprico, then Ultear and finally Hades on Tenrou. His battle with Silver, and finally Mard, during which Natsu actually couldn't carry on fighting due to completely exhausting his magical reserves. He's fought a bunch of fodders, decimated Invel, and we know he will be up and about soon enough again.
If we are comparing their track record, Gray is more impressive as he has consistently fought successive battles over a prolonged period of time, with little to no rest in between them. He has suffered more grievous injuries, like getting impaled and stabbed across his body, and continued fighting while ignoring those wounds. Gajeel probably has better durability, but Gray has displayed greater theshold of pain. So I can see Gajeel having a harder time to put Gray out of commission, then the other way around.
If I could compare to One Piece, Natsu=Luffy, Gray=Zoro, Gajeel=Sanji. LOL!
We know that all three could fight each other just about equally so it's VERY hard to decide which would have the advantage.
IDS Magic is very versatile. Instantaneous freezing alone is a big help to Gray but if Gajeel uses ISDM and turns into a shadow, then the ice and freezing won't do him much good. Versatility wise, I'd give it to Gajeel just for that.
Gray on the other hand is pretty sharp! If he can get to him before and in between his shadow mode, he'd be able to do quite a bit of damage. We saw how Silver froze Natsu like it was nothing (and he couldn't get out of it), so maybe Gray could do the same to Gajeel before he assumed shadow mode or when he leaves out of it.
Good match-up. I'll have to go with the majority on this one...
Gray Fullbuster > Gajeel Redfox [High Difficulty]
Gajeel has two options here. Option #1 is Dragon Force (Jet Black Iron Dragon Mode) and Option #2 is Iron Shadow Dragon Mode. Notice how they two separate modes, meaning he cannot activate both at once. With that said, if Gajeel uses ISDM to dodge Gray's attacks and boost his own speed, he'll be defeated quite easily due to its inferior stats.
However, if he chooses to go DF, he'll only be playing catch-up since DeS Gray is on par with E.N.D. This is also assuming that Gajeel can use his mode for the same amount of time that Gray can use his. Not to mention, Gray has the advantage in range attacks.
Good match-up. I'll have to go with the majority on this one...
Gray Fullbuster > Gajeel Redfox [High Difficulty]
Gajeel has two options here. Option #1 is Dragon Force (Jet Black Iron Dragon Mode) and Option #2 is Iron Shadow Dragon Mode. Notice how they two separate modes, meaning he cannot activate both at once. With that said, if Gajeel uses ISDM to dodge Gray's attacks and boost his own speed, he'll be defeated quite easily due to its inferior stats.
However, if he chooses to go DF, he'll only be playing catch-up since DeS Gray is on par with E.N.D. This is also assuming that Gajeel can use his mode for the same amount of time that Gray can use his. Not to mention, Gray has the advantage in range attacks.
Well he was on par with partial END because of his Slaying advantages like the same way he destroyed Mard Geer even though he was weaker than Mard at that time.
Even though i agree that Gray will win this fight.
Well he was on par with partial END because of his Slaying advantages like the same way he destroyed Mard Geer even though he was weaker than Mard at that time.
Even though i agree that Gray will win this fight.
Well, technically yes, I agree that Gray had slaying advantages. But that is only a factor if the opponent is hit. Think of it like attack penetration which pierces the target's defense and causes extra damage.
If you remember back to when Gray and Natsu fought Mard Geer, you can tell that he had a lot of trouble against Mard Geer even though he had slaying advantages. It wasn't until Gray got the chance to land a hit on Mard Geer before he could defeat him (slaying advantages come into play). But before that, he was still struggling against Mard Geer's attacks and was even on the verge of losing.
So although Gray couldn't put Natsu down (despite having slaying advantages), he was also able to block Natsu's spells and match his power which is already significant in itself.
In terms of attack power, I'd say they are relatively equal. You can see here that they were on even grounds.
Note this is not slayer advantage because Natsu wasn't hit (nor tanking the attack). This strictly has to do with overall power.
Additionally, we can scale Gray's durability to E.N.D's attack power since Gray was hit multiple times and received minimal damage.
Again, this is not slayer advantage because Gray was the one being hit (slaying advantages works the other way around).
Well, technically yes, I agree that Gray had slaying advantages. But that is only a factor if the opponent is hit. Think of it like attack penetration which pierces the target's defense and causes extra damage.
If you remember back to when Gray and Natsu fought Mard Geer, you can tell that he had a lot of trouble against Mard Geer even though he had slaying advantages. It wasn't until Gray got the chance to land a hit on Mard Geer before he could defeat him (slaying advantages come into play). But before that, he was still struggling against Mard Geer's attacks and was even on the verge of losing.
So although Gray couldn't put Natsu down (despite having slaying advantages), he was also able to block Natsu's spells and match his power which is already significant in itself.
In terms of attack power, I'd say they are relatively equal. You can see here that they were on even grounds.
Note this is not slayer advantage because Natsu wasn't hit (nor tanking the attack). This strictly has to do with overall power.
Additionally, we can scale Gray's durability to E.N.D's attack power since Gray was hit multiple times and received minimal damage.
Again, this is not slayer advantage because Gray was the one being hit (slaying advantages works the other way around).
Okay i will give my points one by one.
Note i will refer to your images by giving No.1,No.2 as in the order you posted for our convenience.
First of all we know Slaying advantages allow you to cover huge gap in powerlevels and even gain you a victory.
That is why Dragon Slayers in GMG managed to fight Dragons even though stronger mages like Jura failed.
Now coming to Gray's Des Magic i will analyse his performance
Against Tempesta
Who was either weaker or same level as Gray
Gray one shotted him
Against Mard Geer
Mard Geer was stronger than him at that time.
He destroyed him in his Base state and used one hit to finish him in his EF though DF Natsu also weakened him.
Now if i go by your logic that Des Gray was =Partial END then it would not have been a match because Gray would have one shotted him with his Des Magic.
But that didn't happen even though partial END was hit by Des Magic many times.
This itself proves that Partial END was much stronger than Gray.
Now coming to your images.
No.1 image
I will not disagree there Gray and Natsu's punch was same and created a nuke.
No.2 image
Now here i will say even though the punch appear to be same but power was definetly on Partial END's side.
Gray's expression itself betrays that he is feeling the pressure.
Now the images you put under the Spoiler thread,"Gray's defense"
No.1 image
If you look at image closely where Natsu was thinking about Lucy Partial END did not attack Gray himself.He destroyed Gray's magic.Because in the next panel of Gray you see small small particles of ice flying in the air which was destroyed.
(though i may be wrong here)
No. 2 image
Here Natsu punched Gray but he didn't attack him with fire attacks.Now we can't judge a person by his punch only.Mard Geer fought Sting and Rogue in a physical fight for much long but he didn't take them down completely.So we can't say Mard Geer<Twin Dragons.And Natsu's performance was better than Mard in this respect.
Now the images you put under "Gray's durability"
No. 1 image
This is the tricky part for me.Natsu used a Fire Roar which hit those spiky ice structures which Gray created and destroyed it.It didn't directly hit Gray as far as i see.And Natsu launched him directly at ice wall but he couldn't reach Gray.
Now some bonus points.
We all know Natsu and Gray were potrayed as equals.And we saw Brandish's magic working on Natsu.So we can assume it will also work on Gray.But Natsu as END with partial power became so strong that her magic didn't work on him.In the CR Translation she says,"It is far stronger than me".And also Dimaria saying Partial END's power surpassing Chronos's and being able to move within the Age Seal.
Gray Fullbuster takes it for me though it would be a tough fight. He edges out Gajeel in every category other than durability and possibly speed (which is hard to judge) and has consistently better portrayal.
As a reminder: Gray had just died when he fought Invel and then E.N.D. in succession and had not been healed. Invel believed that Gray was too injured to fight at all let alone at the level he did and his wounds were re-opening the more he pushed himself. Despite those injuries, he was able to stomp all over Invel and match E.N.D.
Gray has also consistently displayed high levels of endurance: he beat Lyon after getting run through; he cut open his side against Urtear and fought while bleeding out, then went on directly to the Hades fight; and fought Tempesta and Marde after Silver tore him to shreds. Gray has proven time and again that he can walk off damage and keep fighting.
Since the Tenrou Island arc, Gray has also appeared to have greater magical power and stamina as well being able to fight multiple battles in each arc even against very powerful foes.
Gray seems to have greater strength than Gajeel since he was able to match E.N.D.'s punching power (magical and none magical) with the force of his own blows and they created massive shockwaves when they did clash. Even before this he was able to treat Invel like a ragdoll and tear his divine armor to pieces with his strength. Even as far back as Avatar Gray was shown to be on equal footings physically with Natsu.
Gray also has far more versatility than Gajeel allowing him access to a wider range of traps and stratagems to use to gain the upper hand. While Gajeel surely has greater durability, lets not forget that Gray has his handy Ice Shields which are incredibly sturdy. Those have only been broken a few times and never by someone close to Gray in power.
Gray's freezing ability has progressed to the point that he can casually freeze Natsu's flames. Even when it comes to speed, it's Gray that has been complimented in this area with his ability to quickly cast. He even stopped E.N.D.'s charge cold.
Now if i go by your logic that Des Gray was =Partial END then it would not have been a match because Gray would have one shotted him with his Des Magic.
But that didn't happen even though partial END was hit by Des Magic many times.
This itself proves that Partial END was much stronger than Gray.
No, this just means that E.N.D. is incredibly tanky.
We saw many times during the fight that Gray was basically equal to E.N.D in terms of speed and strength even while heavily injured and was able to withstand E.N.D.'s attacks.
This is the tricky part for me. Natsu used a Fire Roar which hit those spiky ice structures which Gray created and destroyed it.It didn't directly hit Gray as far as i see.And Natsu launched him directly at ice wall but he couldn't reach Gray.
We know it hit Gray because Gray screamed in pain even though he wasn't knocked down or back. By the way, those 'spiky ice structures' were columns of flames that Natsu caused to erupt from the ground that Gray.
