One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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Pro Ban Corps

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Can both of them beat a calamity ? Don't think so, although I daresay Zoro has more chance at that than Sanji really based on what they displayed so far. Also, just because they are right below Kaido, doesn't mean they are as good as Katakuri.
See that’s the thing Ive Not disputed Zoro has a better chance all I’m saying is when people say stupid shit I feel the need to reply.
Sanji took damages in NW and kept going this guy is out here saying Daifuku and Oven aren’t strong?? If anything they’re under the sweet commanders with tiny gap differences. Zoro has had scratches and shit so can’t really evaluate his durability vs this opponent.
My main bone to pick is how he makes out to be that Zoro is miles above Sanji in the durability department. Luffy is miles above them, Jimbei is next in line as he fought ace for a long time... after that Zoro then Sanji, but they’re not that far apart.
 

King Moe

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I have agreed with you alot during this off topic discussion, as I'm sure your aware lol, but I don't agree that Sanji and Zoro are even close when it comes to durability UNTIL there are present feats to back that claim.

Outside of Luffy taking an hours long beating by Katakuri, Zoro has the best feat of durability which was taking in all of Luffy's pain/fatigue without the added benefit of a rubber body.

And while that was Pre Timeskip, Sanji doesn't have a durability feat that can match Zoro there. By your own admission Sanji was simply taken out by a cheap shot of a heavily damaged Zoro while Zoro took in so much more and remained standing.

Nevertheless. overall, Sanji has been underestimated much more in this forum than on Oro Jackson and the reddits I visit. It's no ones fault really (besides Oda)

For how long WCI was, Oda could have easily has Sanji take out Oven, Daifuku, Perospero, or any of the non commander elites of the Big Mom Pirates... But he chose not too, opting to just throwing sanji a raid suit.

If circumstances brought Jack and Sanji face to face, I would expect Sanji to come away with a W, but not without utilizing his Raid Suit, which I am predicting increases his ability to tank blunt/slashing damage.

Just my take
They are close in durability as it been shown in pre-timeskip and post-timeskip. Got look back on scenes to show that Sanji is hardly out of durability and shown to be one of the toughest crew members along with Luffy and Zoro. It's just I am saying Zoro is still above, but not by a lot between them in durability, but a bit.

Sanji took billion bolt of electricity and was still standing while getting the last laugh on Enel, he also with Zoro share the feat on surviving Urusa Shock and still conscious, and can't forget that in Punk Hazard when Nami was in his body, huge explosion happened and she remain conscious and compliment on how tough Sanji's body is. There been many instances by Oda on him showing this, but your looking at wrong areas or being clouded by something else. Just saying.

Thank you on that (Not really Oda's that fault much as he does things to relate to a situation and work out in his plans to insert. He fight when good time to fight and when it's not the time).

Kinda impossible cause everyone was trying to kill them all. Sanji would have a hard time getting one on one fights due to other interferences in a fight. Why you think Luffy was able to get his fights cause he was underestimated and his opponents were alone in the fight. It's shown more when Flambe help out in the fight and he struggles more due to outside interference if it wasn't for Katakuri denying help. It's not because Oda didn't want them to fight, but it's impossible to get one on one fights to showcase others unless they bring their opponents into secluded areas like Luffy did with Katakuri in the mirror. This isn't a scrape at a school yard, it's all out brawl and war.

I see that happening and I also see it unlocking his dormant genes that his siblings have to increase his power more, so I see it as a temporarily thing for Sanji as he won't rely on it 24/7 as you think.

Speaking of power-ups btw, do you think Luffy has something up his sleeve when he face Kaido and we get a new one when he face him?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Zoro got a few scratches. He even blocked some of the nails with his swords as you can see in the panel where he is attacked. Zoro can lose dozens of litres of blood, that was also his highlighted feat in the first Databook, Red.
Still he has Haki that can make him predict all nails or use Armament to prevent damage. No matter what you all said, it's not good logic for him to simply tank them when have those abilities that shown he is capable of. Makes him look bad than good more.
 

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Sanji's fans are the worst lol.
No they're not. People who criticize Sanji are the worst because they don't use logic or facts in most cases. Just look at the Sanji thread. Luffy's fans are actually probably the worst, if you really want to compare, because they actually thought he could go from beating Doflamingo with supreme difficulty to beating Big Mom, even after she took his combined attack with Sanji and his Gear 4 attack.

Though, I do agree Sanji most likely can't take on Jack, unless the cat and the dog aren't that strong in the first place anyway.
Did Sanji appear in the chapter?

@nik87 No, no one knows that Zoro is far above Sanji in terms of durability. You have literally nothing to base that on. Both you and @King Moe are just stating opinions and trying to pass them off as facts.

@nik87 At the risk of fueling your need to discuss Katakuri... What point is it to bring up Luffy Vs Katakuri when we know Luffy grew stronger during and as a result of the fight. You have absolutely no basis to even suggest that Zoro could be a good match for a Commander. One could argue for Luffy but not Zoro. Zoro being a swordsman does not mean he is a good match up for a Yonkou commander simply because he has a sword. You're forgetting that not only does he has a sword/swords... He also has a DF that could easily be counted as an advantage over Zoro.

So Sanji and Zoro at this point will fare just as equally against Jack, unless shown otherwise. Any tipping towards one side is simply down to favouritism. Could make a case for Luffy beating Jack but anyone else is just pure speculation.

And your statement about the strings... Are you saying that Zoro simply did not want to cut the strings that we causing so much damage? Asking someone to provide proof that Zoro could not cut the strings... When he wasn't cutting them is quite peculiar.
Zoro's durability can be assumed, and it's not hard to assume he would actually stand a chance against Jack whereas Sanji wouldn't, especially since he does have swords.

Plus, Zoro does grow stronger during fights, like against Daz Bones.
 

Pirate Queen

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No, Luffy fans are way worse. I've yet to see any Zoro fans claim he could beat Doflamingo or Big Mom. When it comes to Sanji baking cake though, there's so much to go on, and almost nothing for people criticizing his decision to go on.
Where have you been @M3J plenty of people said Zoro could beat Doflamingo, going so far as to say he would have done it easier than Luffy could. Same with Cracker. In fact, the amount of people claiming Zoro>Luffy has risen ridiculously

Expecting Luffy to face Big Mom was logical because every single arc Luffy takes on the "big bad". And Big Mom just happened to be the main boss of that Arc.

Luffy fans claiming he could BEAT Big Mom... Now that was LOL.


Now my claim about Sanji was about 1 v 1 fights.

Sanji hasn't had a decent fight since Thriller Bark, so his fans have less to go on outside of clashes and limited feats
 

nik87

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I wouldn't bother trying to reason with @King Moe if i were you, as he doesn't seem to understand the english language!
I stopped responding because i really thought he was trolling me but it doesnt appear to be so. When i looked closer i saw the same type of logicless/talk-to-a-wall responses directed to other forum users. Anyway, its impossible to lead a proper debate when the other participant constantly repeats whats in his mind regardless of the counter-arguments presented.

No, Luffy fans are way worse. I've yet to see any Zoro fans claim he could beat Doflamingo or Big Mom. When it comes to Sanji baking cake though, there's so much to go on, and almost nothing for people criticizing his decision to go on.
Yeah, beating Big Mom is one of the biggest overestimations that i saw. Sanji beating Jack is quite close to it, imo.
I do think that Zoro might have had a chance vs Doffy, considering that everything under Doffy didn't make Zoro break a sweat and considering that he was owned by G4 Luffy but props to Doffy for tanking it quite well.
I'm kinda interested in Law vs. Hawkins,
Not sure if it will happen considering Zoro and Luffy are running away with the food train. They wrecked Holdem, its enough to summon Jack. That fight would last quite long considering how hax both DFs are.
Does anyone wonder why kiku is so weak, she got herself captured again by gifters :(
Not sure what to think of her, at moments she appears strong and then those kidnapping scenes by fodder... However, her swordsmanship has yet to find an opponent to stop it.

Where have you been @M3J plenty of people said Zoro could beat Doflamingo, going so far as to say he would have done it easier than Luffy could. Same with Cracker. In fact, the amount of people claiming Zoro>Luffy has risen ridiculously
Zoro for sure would have the fight of a lifetime if he went against Doffy but is it really that much overestimation of his abilities? I dont think so.
Imo, i do think that Zoro would have had an easier time against Cracker than Luffy, would be hard fight nonetheless. Luffy cant afford to take hits from swords and thus has to run away/avoid them which costs him stamina against such opponent which he cant deal with fast. Zoro doesnt have to run away, he can block those attacks and i dont think he would have any trouble cutting through those biscuits...
 

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I would really like to join this thread, because I acually like discussing "powerlevels", but I feel like I need to explain my points of view first because I am also interested in how you evaluate powerlevels in general.

1. There is no Character A > Character B > Character C kind of powerlevel chart. The vast amount of different special abilities makes this impossible. There are only rough brackets were characters can fit in.

2. The main characters don't jump strenght tiers bewteen arcs unless it is expicitly stated. The Luffy that defeated Alvida is the same Luffy that defeated Crocodile and Enel and the same Luffy that lost to Kuzan. Afterwards he developes the Gear Techniques, which is a straight powerup. Before, what he was gaining was only expierence, you can see most of the Straw Hats trying out weird and ineffective techniques during their early fights (Gomu Gomu Net, Nami's first tact, Usopps early arsenal), while becoming more min-max oriented, flexible and adaptive later on. Keep in mind that the Straw Hats journey takes place in only a short amount of time. Given that the average age of the supposedly strongest characters is a lot higher than the Straw Hats, it is impossible for them to jump tiers every arc. Jumping Tiers by more than one was what the timeskip was all about. Now progression rate has slowed again. Luffy that defeated Hody is the same Luffy that defeated Cracker. Only after the Katakuri fight he gained a direct powerup, advanced CoO. Now things will slow down again until the next and probably final (as we are at 80%) combat related powerup, most likely "Awakening".

3. As I said above, Experience is a much bigger factor than strenght. Luffy falls for every trick his opponent has upon first encounter, best recent example is Luffy immediately getting stuck in Katakuri's mochi upon their very first contact at the wedding, but the best overall example is probably Luffy vs Foxy. Experience is also the reason why Crocodile could clash evenly with Mihawk during the Summit War, while Luffy realized he couldn't. Luffy had beaten Crocodile before, so why does he perform so much better fighting wise during the war? It is because he is a seasoned pirate that knows what he is doing, while Luffy was a rookie.

4. What characters say about other characters has to be taken with a grain of salt. The discussion above about a supposed "Whitebeard tier", I cannot understand it. Whitebeards feats are undeniably insane, he has the Gura Gura no Mi and can keep fighting for a few minutes with half his head gone. But he also had half his head taken off by a marine admiral in close quarter combat, and he himself ultimately did not manage to take out this marine admiral or any admiral or the hated Teach for the rest of the war, and on top of that had heart strokes in the middle of combat. Doesn't really look like the "strongest man in the world" to me. More like he was once, due to his rivalry with Roger, and that's where his legendary status comes from, because that is how legendary statuses work. They come from reputation, not from actual feats. Marineford Whitebeard would be in the same rough bracket as the other Yonko and Admirals. There really is not a single feat during the war that sets him above the rest except his durability but he is also the only one to die.
Another example is Luffy as the fifth emperor now, but here it is much easier to catch that it is just Morgans giving Luffy a reputation boost and not actually true.

5. Titles and bounties are related to strenght but not directly. That means they can't be used for direct comparison. We can't say "Yonko is stronger than (Fleet) Admiral", and we can't say "Yonko Commander is stronger than Vice Admiral". All are just titles within their own institution (Pirates/Marines), and do have a relation to strenght but not a definite one. And "Yonko Commander" technically doesn't even exist as every crew has their own ranking system.
Same for Bounty, we can't say X is stronger than Y because his bounty is higher.

All that said, I think it is extremely difficult to figure out a good chart that places all characters in the right spot. What I find uninteresting is that most of the powerlevel discussion resolves around the top, which for me, is the easiest to categorize. Honestly, I've been reading about Whitebeard vs Akainu on every place in the internet for 8 years now, it's getting tiresome.

I would love to talk about some more mid-tierish brackets rather than about top tier specifics like "Who is the strongest Yonko?", or is "Doflamingo stronger than Cracker?", because in these cases we can't give definite answers without driving into fanfiction because the characters are so close in power anyways.

To also start a new discussion, I would like to to ask if you think these characters are comparable to each other, thus forming a rough bracket:

Perospero, Daifuku, Oven, Vergo,

Pedro, Tamago, Pekoms , Sicilian, Sanji

Also, I would like to ask where would you put Pica, Bege and Smoker (or any other comparable character) in this list.
 

nik87

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@McNuss Interesting points and i agree with some but i think you underestimate Whitebeard because of the mission Oda gave him in Marineford - to die. That's why heart stabbed by his own crew member, heart attacks during combat, insides burned and pierced, part of face blown off... He had to somehow pull off the killing of the strongest man. If the plan was different and Oda didnt want to kill off Whitebeard then and there we would have much more impressive feats from him. Even without the plan to off him it would depend on plot armor of the admirals and other top dogs, were they allowed to die or not...

It has bothered me that Crocodile seems to clash evenly with Doflamingo and Mihawk and he lost to Luffy when he was quite weak. It gives no justice to Crocodile and makes him look weaker than he actually is.

There are tiers among same titles and we have to keep that in mind. There are worlds in between Snack and Katakuri. Same can be applied to Shichibukai and Vice-Admirals, for example: Buggy/Moriah and Mihawk/Doffy or Hina and Garp.
Bounties, imo, are quite a good indicator of strength for established characters, those who have been on the pirate scene for a longer period and dont get their bounties changes often like Strawhats and Supernovas do. Few things could be said to form the bounty but mainly its indicator for the level of the threat their combat abilities present. Second notable factor forming the bounty would be the danger they represent to the government.
So far, the strength of the enemies Strawhats fought was represented quite well by their bounties.

Doflamingo vs Cracker is an interesting and a tough one but i would place my bet on Doflamingo most likely.
Imo, Vergo doesnt belong in the first group and fits into the second group where i would as well place Pica and Smoker.
I would place Bege in the first group.
 

M3J

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1. There is no Character A > Character B > Character C kind of powerlevel chart. The vast amount of different special abilities makes this impossible. There are only rough brackets were characters can fit in.
Exactly. This is exactly why you can't determine if Luffy's stronger than Zoro, but we can assume he's stronger than Sanji because both are hand-to-hand fighters, and Luffy's devil fruit gives him a clear advantage.
Now progression rate has slowed again. Luffy that defeated Hody is the same Luffy that defeated Cracker. Only after the Katakuri fight he gained a direct powerup, advanced CoO. Now things will slow down again until the next and probably final (as we are at 80%) combat related powerup, most likely "Awakening".
Luffy's gonna get something this arc or next arc though, because the previous arc showed that Luffy can't even do shit against Big Mom. If he can't do anything against her, then how will he beat Kaidou or Big Mom, or anyone with great defense? He's gotta get some sort of strength.
Luffy had beaten Crocodile before, so why does he perform so much better fighting wise during the war? It is because he is a seasoned pirate that knows what he is doing, while Luffy was a rookie.
Luffy lost his first fight against Crocodile and was saved by Robin. He lost his second fight against Crocodile despite exploiting Croc's weakness but was saved by a drop of water. Third fight could have ended in a draw if Robin didn't give him the antidote, but Luffy exploited Croc's weakness to liquid by using blood. Crocodile's weakness wasn't used against him, as far as I recall, but the odd part is that neither was haki. Luffy lucked out twice before he won, if you wanna be accuate.

4. What characters say about other characters has to be taken with a grain of salt. The discussion above about a supposed "Whitebeard tier", I cannot understand it. Whitebeards feats are undeniably insane, he has the Gura Gura no Mi and can keep fighting for a few minutes with half his head gone. But he also had half his head taken off by a marine admiral in close quarter combat, and he himself ultimately did not manage to take out this marine admiral or any admiral or the hated Teach for the rest of the war, and on top of that had heart strokes in the middle of combat. Doesn't really look like the "strongest man in the world" to me. More like he was once, due to his rivalry with Roger, and that's where his legendary status comes from, because that is how legendary statuses work. They come from reputation, not from actual feats. Marineford Whitebeard would be in the same rough bracket as the other Yonko and Admirals. There really is not a single feat during the war that sets him above the rest except his durability but he is also the only one to die.
And you were doing well, but this is where you lost me. While characters' words should be taken with a grain of salt, it shouldn't be entirely. Whitebeard tanked hits after hits, from swords and guns to cannons (?) and half a head missing, and he still stood and fought. No other character has so far matched this feat. Whitebeard is also the only one on screen who fought Akainu on par and even took him down temporarily, which so far no one has been able to do save for Aokiji. Whitebeard was also fighting multiple enemies, but Teach was the only one he was determined to kill but failed to do so.

Dude succumbed to his injuries, not a heart stroke. He is the strongest man in the world because he kept on wrecking shit despite the damage he took. Marineford Whitebeard was also an old hag, which is why he didn't do far more damage. There have been at least one observation that his age/illness was what prevented him from dodging Squardo's stab, if not more.
 

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Luffy's gonna get something this arc or next arc though, because the previous arc showed that Luffy can't even do shit against Big Mom. If he can't do anything against her, then how will he beat Kaidou or Big Mom, or anyone with great defense? He's gotta get some sort of strength.
The way Wano looks to me, there won't be an 1v1 vs Kaido with almost the whole Worst Generation showing up. I don't think awakening will happen before we get an explanation which could happen this arc. Actually I don't even think Kaido is going down in Wano at all because there is that whole Caribou/Poseidon thing but that's another story.

Luffy lost his first fight against Crocodile and was saved by Robin. He lost his second fight against Crocodile despite exploiting Croc's weakness but was saved by a drop of water. Third fight could have ended in a draw if Robin didn't give him the antidote, but Luffy exploited Croc's weakness to liquid by using blood. Crocodile's weakness wasn't used against him, as far as I recall, but the odd part is that neither was haki. Luffy lucked out twice before he won, if you wanna be accuate.
Yeah under lab conditions Luffy would lose to Crocodile 10 out of 10 times likely even with the Gears due to the Logia. However suriviving once made him learn the weakness, and surviving twice gave him the knowledge that his his hits hit hard. In the last battle, out of pride Crocodile entered close quarter combat with Luffy and Luffy won, proving that he has more physical strenght and endurance. So Luffy won because of experience, but this specific experience only helps him against Crocodile, while a veteran like Crocodile has more experience which makes him able to clash with Mihawk and Doflamingo, two characters far stronger than himself, but he has met them before and wasn't really surprised by anything happening in Marineford outside of Whitebeard's state of health. So in a list Crocodile would rank higer than Pre-Skip Luffy, even though Pre-Skip Luffy is stronger than him.

And you were doing well, but this is where you lost me. While characters' words should be taken with a grain of salt, it shouldn't be entirely. Whitebeard tanked hits after hits, from swords and guns to cannons (?) and half a head missing, and he still stood and fought. No other character has so far matched this feat. Whitebeard is also the only one on screen who fought Akainu on par and even took him down temporarily, which so far no one has been able to do save for Aokiji. Whitebeard was also fighting multiple enemies, but Teach was the only one he was determined to kill but failed to do so.

Dude succumbed to his injuries, not a heart stroke. He is the strongest man in the world because he kept on wrecking shit despite the damage he took. Marineford Whitebeard was also an old hag, which is why he didn't do far more damage. There have been at least one observation that his age/illness was what prevented him from dodging Squardo's stab, if not more.
I am not saying that Whitebeard couldn't be the strongest, but we are in the situation that also no other comparable character has been in the same situation as him, that is being focused by the entire marines. Could Big Mom or Akainu keep fighting with half their head missing? Who knows.
We also have Kaido, said to be unkillable, the "strongest Creature in the World" and he is also clearly a man. We have Mihawk, the strongest swordsman, but Shanks and Big Mom use swords as well. Shanks seems to be a pure swordsman like Mihawk, and they did have legendary duels, but for some reason we don't know the outcome.

We can't really put these characters above each other just of what is said about them.

----

@nik87 I placed Vergo in the first, because he too gave Sanji a hard time. Pica looked weak when facing Zoro, but the more I think about it there are few people that could defeat him simply due to the nature of his fruit. One needs huge destructive power to split the Rocks enough to catch him in midair. I honestly have a hard time seeing Pedro or Tamago even scratch Pica.
 

nik87

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@McNuss I know he gave a hard time to Sanji and he wasnt going all out but neither was Sanji and i expect more from him than we saw, its impossible that he learned nothing during his time skip aside from skywalk and one more named kick. Imo, Vergo's power level is closer to second group than the first group but he would clearly be the top dog of the second group.

Pica is not easy to defeat because his DF provides him layers of protection, similar to Cracker. Its hard to get to his real body. All the others in that second group are quite nimble characters and shouldnt have any trouble evading his stone form and when facing his real body they all should have a chance to beat him.
They all are strong enough to destroy his stone body but getting to his real body is not that easy so the fight between these from 2nd group and Pica would be a dull one and they all would probably get exhausted before they defeat each other.

I wonder how would Sanji deal with Smoker.
 

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Luffy beat crocodile was all cuz of plot at that time I didn’t think east blue/grandline luffy was stronger than crocodile in fact oda said he introduced him too early and yes crocodile and Enel>lucci until proven. Crocodile clashing with dd doesn’t proven anything we all know DD would mid diff crocodile if they fought.
 

M3J

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The way Wano looks to me, there won't be an 1v1 vs Kaido with almost the whole Worst Generation showing up. I don't think awakening will happen before we get an explanation which could happen this arc. Actually I don't even think Kaido is going down in Wano at all because there is that whole Caribou/Poseidon thing but that's another story.
I hope so, it'll most likely be multiple vs. Kaidou. Problem is though, which one of them can deal damage? Can Law's gamma knife work well? Luffy's likely gonna finish, so how will he finish off Kaidou without necessary power, unless they find ways to weaken him?

Yeah under lab conditions Luffy would lose to Crocodile 10 out of 10 times likely even with the Gears due to the Logia. However suriviving once made him learn the weakness, and surviving twice gave him the knowledge that his his hits hit hard. In the last battle, out of pride Crocodile entered close quarter combat with Luffy and Luffy won, proving that he has more physical strenght and endurance. So Luffy won because of experience, but this specific experience only helps him against Crocodile, while a veteran like Crocodile has more experience which makes him able to clash with Mihawk and Doflamingo, two characters far stronger than himself, but he has met them before and wasn't really surprised by anything happening in Marineford outside of Whitebeard's state of health. So in a list Crocodile would rank higer than Pre-Skip Luffy, even though Pre-Skip Luffy is stronger than him.
Did Luffy have physical strength though, or did he increase his strength by stretching his arms back and using momentum? Luffy also won because he used blood to hit Crocodile, otherwise without blood Luffy likely would have been fucked. Crocodile also probably underestimated Luffy, especially after poisoning him.

I don't know if we can determine if Doflamingo's stronger than Crocodile, honestly. Crocodile didn't look like he was in any disadvantage and was able to compete with Doflamingo and survive unscathed enough to save Luffy and Jinbei.

Can we consider preskip Luffy stronger when he's lost two rounds against Crocodile and survived and won due to luck?


I am not saying that Whitebeard couldn't be the strongest, but we are in the situation that also no other comparable character has been in the same situation as him, that is being focused by the entire marines. Could Big Mom or Akainu keep fighting with half their head missing? Who knows.
We also have Kaido, said to be unkillable, the "strongest Creature in the World" and he is also clearly a man. We have Mihawk, the strongest swordsman, but Shanks and Big Mom use swords as well. Shanks seems to be a pure swordsman like Mihawk, and they did have legendary duels, but for some reason we don't know the outcome.

We can't really put these characters above each other just of what is said about them.
Yeah, but again, if Whitebeard or his crew aren't as strong as they're hyped up to be, why were the Marines scared? Why wouldn't an Emperor try to take out a legend who was known to rival the Pirate King?


@McNuss I know he gave a hard time to Sanji and he wasnt going all out but neither was Sanji and i expect more from him than we saw, its impossible that he learned nothing during his time skip aside from skywalk and one more named kick. Imo, Vergo's power level is closer to second group than the first group but he would clearly be the top dog of the second group.
Sanji was also injured and exhausted from when Nami was using his body to the point that even one punch from her took him down. Plus, they both had more important matters to deal with than fight to the death.
 

ThatOtherGuy

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Here is something I don't think we discussed thoroughly, Garp supposedly beat up the captain under which both Kaido and Big Mom were serving. What does that mean for Garp's power level I wonder?
 

nik87

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Here is something I don't think we discussed thoroughly, Garp supposedly beat up the captain under which both Kaido and Big Mom were serving. What does that mean for Garp's power level I wonder?
I am expecting much from Garp, not destructive like Whitebeard but of comparable strength.
 

LaGOAT

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@M3J yes pre TS luffy is stronger than crocodile but up till skypia luffy isnt stronger than crocodile this is how see it. Strongest villains till triller bark. Enel>Moria>crocodile>lucci>Kuro>don Kerieg>buggy>morgan>fat lady girl in the first arc

As for the durability it’s luffy>zoro>sanji the gap of their durability isn’t that far apart I don’t why y’all think luffy durability so much higher than the other 2.
 

Shasha23

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Anyone who puts Lucci below any pre-timeskip opponent of Luffy is clearly delusional, Lucci's punches were strong enough to damage a ruberman something only people with haki have been able to do and he did it with pure brute force, putting Enel ahead is understandable only because of his OP DF as none of Luffy's pre-timeskip opponents would have a snowday chance in hell against him.

As for the whole durability part, TB should have proven to all who is the most durable and who can endure the most damage and that is Zoro and not by a little, probably this has changed now as Luffy can fight hours none stop and Zoro post-timeskip hasn't shown he can do the same, but before 3D2Y Zoro is clearly ahead.
 

nik87

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Anyone who puts Lucci below any pre-timeskip opponent of Luffy is clearly delusional, Lucci's punches were strong enough to damage a ruberman something only people with haki have been able to do and he did it with pure brute force, putting Enel ahead is understandable only because of his OP DF as none of Luffy's pre-timeskip opponents would have a snowday chance in hell against him
Yes Enel is above Lucci, clearly because of his DF and not combat skills and I would also put Crocodile ahead of Lucci for the same reason.
While Enel might have an edge over Crocodile thanks to his CoO(Mantra) i doubt he would be able to do anything to Crocodile tho since sand isnt really affected by lightning, except maybe creating high temperature and melting the sand.
 

LaGOAT

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Anyone who puts Lucci below any pre-timeskip opponent of Luffy is clearly delusional, Lucci's punches were strong enough to damage a ruberman something only people with haki have been able to do and he did it with pure brute force, putting Enel ahead is understandable only because of his OP DF as none of Luffy's pre-timeskip opponents would have a snowday chance in hell against him.

As for the whole durability part, TB should have proven to all who is the most durable and who can endure the most damage and that is Zoro and not by a little, probably this has changed now as Luffy can fight hours none stop and Zoro post-timeskip hasn't shown he can do the same, but before 3D2Y Zoro is clearly ahead.
give me feats that shows that lucci>crocodile and Moria? Lucci might the best to hand to hand combat but that alone isn’t gonna price he is stronger
 

Shasha23

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give me feats that shows that lucci>crocodile and Moria? Lucci might the best to hand to hand combat but that alone isn’t gonna price he is stronger
Give me feats that show Crocodile and Moria > Lucci
 

BigBadDogg

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Give me feats that show Crocodile and Moria > Lucci
No feats but he did show great ability as a logia and no one showed any haki ability before so I still think he is tougher than Lucci, but Moria's fruit is versatile and might be able to steal his shadow.
 
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