Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[King Moe]

It doesnt matter that it was never meant to be a serious thing. It is a serious thing. It's just used for comedic relief.

As to your second point. I'm really worried you dont, as a human being, understand what consent actually means. That's scary since you are obviously old enough to discuss other serious topics. Learn what consent is because once you do, you will realize Nami and Robin didnt CONSENT to being spied on by Sanji.

I dont think Sanji being a perv hurts his character in anyway. Nami and Robin clearly feel like they can handle his level of craziness. But we you say stuff like, they were in a public bath so consent is implied.... that's dangerous thinking. You are wrong in this.

I know consent and your scaring me on seeing comical gag as a 'serious' though. Oda isn't not sending a message like that at all. He done this before and it's nothing new.

As on consent thing, so Nami and Robin showing their bodies openly to bath of strangers doesn't prove to you that don't mind being seen naked. If it was a serious thing, Nami and Robin (who later didn't) would treat situation as very serious when male strangers was oogling their bodies.

Your reading too deep thinking this was Oda being insensitive. It's just a fanservice gag, nothing more. Are we going to ignore Alabasta Arc of Nami openly showing her 'Happiness Punch' the first time and no repercussion from that except nosebleeding male cast and smiling Nami afterwards?

Just saying not to see it as serious as it was written as a gag. Not something bad out of it.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2019 ---

Sanji's both a gentleman and a perv. I wish his perversions wasn't as exaggerated as much as it was after the time skip, but there's not much we can do about it.

At least Whole Cake toned it down for a spell and had him act like a gentleman the majority of the arc.

And yes, while it was played up as a joke and a coop bath, the women in the bath didn't consent to being ogled by an invisible man.

Anyway, I recently got to thinking that, like Shishi Sonson, Diable Jambe might be folded into Ryou as a category. Obviously it's not complete in its current form, but it seems close to the principles of the technique. Plus, Oda's never been straight forward whenever people would ask him about the move, so I think he easily could without much trouble.

When your trapped on island for 2 years with Okamas and no women in sight for years, it's kinda justify as even at the start he had trouble seeing women before he got used to it later. Not saying in real life perspective it is ok, but this fictional story where it use as gag and not as serious thing is where I am getting at.

Could be about DJ. You think RS help his skills in unlocking it like Luffy did?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I know consent and your scaring me on seeing comical gag as a 'serious' though. Oda isn't not sending a message like that at all. He done this before and it's nothing new.

As on consent thing, so Nami and Robin showing their bodies openly to bath of strangers doesn't prove to you that don't mind being seen naked. If it was a serious thing, Nami and Robin (who later didn't) would treat situation as very serious when male strangers was oogling their bodies.

Your reading too deep thinking this was Oda being insensitive. It's just a fanservice gag, nothing more. Are we going to ignore Alabasta Arc of Nami openly showing her 'Happiness Punch' the first time and no repercussion from that except nosebleeding male cast and smiling Nami afterwards?

Just saying not to see it as serious as it was written as a gag. Not something bad out of it.

Peeking in on women without consent is WRONG or he wouldn't have had to be invisible and could have just walked in and they wouldnt have minded. They did mind which is why Nami beat him up.

It's not the point about it being a comical gag. It's still a serious issue. Whether Oda makes it so or not.

It scares you that I know the difference between consent and non consent? That a weird way to counter my arguement. Your problem is that you cant fault Sanji at all.

We KNOW it's a gag. It is still WRONG.

 

[King Moe]

Peeking in on women without consent is WRONG or he wouldn't have had to be invisible and could have just walked in and they wouldnt have minded. They did mind which is why Nami beat him up.

It's not the point about it being a comical gag. It's still a serious issue. Whether Oda makes it so or not.

It scares you that I know the difference between consent and non consent? That a weird way to counter my arguement. Your problem is that you cant fault Sanji at all.

We KNOW it's a gag. It is still WRONG.

Sanji didn't know it was open bath to begin with. Not really much as they look to him to save them when Drake and Hawkins came in after them. She didn't have ill-feelings that she had same with Absalom who was a true going 'after her'. His perverness won't make him disrespect or harm an lady still overall. It's not in him.

Agree to disagree, but sounds like your making an long-time gag serious thing when Nami is someone who shown her naked body before and use 'charms' to get her way.

Again your scaring me on misunderstand as your still trying to force gags as serious issues that you think Oda is 'sending a message' when it's not true. Sanji has faults and pervy attitude is someone he debut with. Just telling you your complaining something that been on character since get-go not like he went 180 and now has pervy streak.

Agree to disagree on this as think we misunderstanding each other as you think I see same in real life when I don't. I am seeing difference of reality and fictional story with comedy. Anime and fanservice been this way for years. It's something you get used to, not see it as serious 'issue'.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Sanji didn't know it was open bath to begin with. Not really much as they look to him to save them when Drake and Hawkins came in after them. She didn't have ill-feelings that she had same with Absalom who was a true going 'after her'. His perverness won't make him disrespect or harm an lady still overall. It's not in him.

Agree to disagree, but sounds like your making an long-time gag serious thing when Nami is someone who shown her naked body before and use 'charms' to get her way.

Again your scaring me on misunderstand as your still trying to force gags as serious issues that you think Oda is 'sending a message' when it's not true. Sanji has faults and pervy attitude is someone he debut with. Just telling you your complaining something that been on character since get-go not like he went 180 and now has pervy streak.

Agree to disagree on this as think we misunderstanding each other as you think I see same in real life when I don't. I am seeing difference of reality and fictional story with comedy. Anime and fanservice been this way for years. It's something you get used to, not see it as serious 'issue'.

Whether it's fake or not, the act is wrong. The fact that you dont understand that is very troubling.

Again, showing everyone you dont understand what consent is. If I were you, I'd just drop it because your sounding more and more like a creep.

 

[HereNThere]

How about we stop that particular point here and now.

 

[afromarco005]

Sanji's both a gentleman and a perv. I wish his perversions wasn't as exaggerated as much as it was after the time skip, but there's not much we can do about it.

At least Whole Cake toned it down for a spell and had him act like a gentleman the majority of the arc.

And yes, while it was played up as a joke and a coop bath, the women in the bath didn't consent to being ogled by an invisible man.

Anyway, I recently got to thinking that, like Shishi Sonson, Diable Jambe might be folded into Ryou as a category. Obviously it's not complete in its current form, but it seems close to the principles of the technique. Plus, Oda's never been straight forward whenever people would ask him about the move, so I think he easily could without much trouble.

But didnt DJ fail to hurt Kizaru ? I dont think that its haki.

 

[HereNThere]

But didnt DJ fail to hurt Kizaru ? I dont think that its haki.

I don't think Sanji ever had the chance to clash with Kizaru.

Either way, as I mentioned, it wouldn't be complete, similar to Zoro's PTS Shishi Sonson, either due to a lack of haki development or understanding of Ryou. Zoro's Shishi Sonson may have had elements of Ryou, but it still wasn't at a high enough level where it could cut through everything just yet. Pacifista steel was still too tough for him back then. Same could potentially be said for Sanji.

It's just a theory though, seeing as how DJ doesn't have a proper explanation. Same principles could probably also be attributed to Luffy's Red Hawk, which also lacks a proper explanation.

 

[Fox666]

Yeah, not every ability should be explained with Haki

One Piece got its share of strange abilities that aren't even Devil Fruits, Haki shouldn't be used o justify everything as a magical ability

Sanji heats up his legs by spinning very fast, Luffy Red Hawk seems to be based on Gear 2, doesn't require more explanation than this

 

[HereNThere]

Yeah, not every ability should be explained with Haki

One Piece got its share of strange abilities that aren't even Devil Fruits, Haki shouldn't be used o justify everything as a magical ability

Sanji heats up his legs by spinning very fast, Luffy Red Hawk seems to be based on Gear 2, doesn't require more explanation than this

Sanji doesn't even spin anymore to activate DJ though.

Red Hawk isn't an effect of Gear 2 either. Seems clear that he needs haki to use it as it's always used in conjunction with hardening. Otherwise, it'd just be a basic Jet Bullet.

 

[Fox666]

Luffy always using Haki with Red Hawk doesn't necessarily mean it's a requirement, more like Red Hawk is so strong that it would be a waste to not use Haki...

Sanji trained to not have to spin anymore, but still means it's related to him moving his body in a certain way

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy always using Haki with Red Hawk doesn't necessarily mean it's a requirement, more like Red Hawk is so strong that it would be a waste to not use Haki...

Sanji trained to not have to spin anymore, but still means it's related to him moving his body in a certain way

No, Red hawk is caused by the friction of haki and his Df ability.

There is no red hawk w/o haki. Its a haki move.

 

[King Moe]

No, Red hawk is caused by the friction of haki and his Df ability.

There is no red hawk w/o haki. Its a haki move.

Are you saying Sanji unlock COA Haki pre-timeskip to do DJ?

 

[King Moe]

I like how changi sanjed puddins opinion on him on wci.

Sanji tend to have lots of charisma giving people strong teactions. That is not a requirement for being a cook but being a succesful ladies man.

He did it twice already. He change both Viola and Pudding to ally side. He has ways of change others and ladies more than anyone else.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

He did it twice already. He change both Viola and Pudding to ally side. He has ways of change others and ladies more than anyone else.

you can't be more wrong on this
viola is always on the good side, it's just that after she beat sanji, she decided to not kill sanji

 

[King Moe]

you can't be more wrong on this
viola is always on the good side, it's just that after she beat sanji, she decided to not kill sanji

Not really as she was 'tainted' by her position after doing it so long and it took Sanji changing her to truly take a stand. She wouldn't have done anything if it wasn't for him.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Not really as she was 'tainted' by her position after doing it so long and it took Sanji changing her to truly take a stand. She wouldn't have done anything if it wasn't for him.

Wrong, viola just took a pity on sanji and not kill him.
Actually that made her in bad situation and get banned from doflamingo crews

 

[HereNThere]

Wrong, viola just took a pity on sanji and not kill him.
Actually that made her in bad situation and get banned from doflamingo crews

Eh, Sanji did have a hand in convincing her to turn against Doffy. She was moved by his genuine feelings of trust towards her and the fact that he saw truth in her words about wanting to kill Doflamingo. She regained some sense of hope due to him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Wrong, viola just took a pity on sanji and not kill him.
Actually that made her in bad situation and get banned from doflamingo crews

Sanji took part in convincing her... if you reread the chapters it's pretty evident

 

[Shasha23]

Eh, Sanji did have a hand in convincing her to turn against Doffy. She was moved by his genuine feelings of trust towards her and the fact that he saw truth in her words about wanting to kill Doflamingo. She regained some sense of hope due to him.

Wrong Viola was already plotting to have Luffy and Law take out Doffy even before she ran into Sanji

 

[Fox666]

Wrong Viola was already plotting to have Luffy and Law take out Doffy even before she ran into Sanji

He said Viola wanted to kill Doflamingo, just wasn't against him at the time.