Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

[GrySun]

Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

Spoiler: Examples of Approved roles

I. Troublemaker

II. Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2 (locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.

I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:

• A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
• A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.

Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.

 

[James Rye]

One thing I forgot, a suggestion for the PGO:

Paranoid Gun Owner (Townie): The Paranoid Gun Owner does not choose when to use his ability, but if he is targetted during the night then he kills whomever targetted him, regardless of aliance. (GAME 10) But he has only one bullet in his gun. (GAME 37) The Kill will be shown as ??? in the day phase, but the PGO does not know the killed one's role.

I thought this way the PGO might get an idea that he did use his role, the Investigator gets another chance to investigate and the ??? kill fits a Paranoid Gun Owner for he surely would bury the dead body no matter for what reason he got targeted, after all, this murder might just be a trap to lynch him.^^

 

[Hardy]

I think the role is fine as it is? Maybe notify him THE FOLLOWING NIGHT that he has no more bullets?

 

[James Rye]

Instead of the Brought Judge how about a BBB role for Mafia? Big Bang Bomb?

Big Bang Bomb (Mafia)
The Big Bang Bomb role gets publicly confirmed by the Host at the start of a certain Day phase and he is told when. Until that day phase if the BBB is killed or lynched nothing happens. But after the reveal the BBB is activated and any kill or lynch will kill three random not to the BBB-Mafia belonging Players.

That way mafia gets a big bomb that kills 3 people but they have to keep it alive till a certain day. Plus this role would make roles like bomb defuser and Mafia bomb defuser much more useful as they would be the only ones who could deal with this threat without blowing anybody up and would actually know that who they use their abiltiy on is an actual bomb.

 

[GrySun]

Instead of the Brought Judge how about a BBB role for Mafia? Big Bang Bomb?

Big Bang Bomb (Mafia)
The Big Bang Bomb role gets publicly confirmed by the Host at the start of a certain Day phase and he is told when. Until that day phase if the BBB is killed or lynched nothing happens. But after the reveal the BBB is activated and any kill or lynch will kill three random not to the BBB-Mafia belonging Players.

That way mafia gets a big bomb that kills 3 people but they have to keep it alive till a certain day. Plus this role would make roles like bomb defuser and Mafia bomb defuser much more useful as they would be the only ones who could deal with this threat without blowing anybody up and would actually know that who they use their abiltiy on is an actual bomb.

RNG is not something majority(if not all) of approval-people like currently so that‘s a no.

 

[James Rye]

RNG is not something majority(if not all) of approval-people like currently so that‘s a no.

Then like the three players next to the bomb as long as they don't belong to the same mafia? That way it could also prove problematic for the Mafia if the guy next to the bomb stays alive.
I just wanted it to be a big bomb as reward for staying alive for a certain set of days and then be revealed like an IC. But if killed after reveal he would just kill the killer and nobody else like a normal bomb. For a lnych ofc you could go "the last three votelocked" but doesn't sound quite rewarding. Maybe have the BBB pick three players after being revealed like a mark so if he dies and they are still alive they go boom?

Sounds interesting, I like TPs that don‘t necessarily kill. Just unsure yet if it‘s fun to play for the player, as it‘s just safe-targetting and staying alive.



Does it matter if they know? Because they are dead players I think?

So In general you would like a role like my Greedy Notary as TP, right? Doesn't necessariy kill and all that.

The Greedy Notary (3rd Party)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Townie adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 5 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Mafia/TP reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -5. The Notary wins the game once he has a surplus of 5 Townie votes.

 

[GrySun]

Then like the three players next to the bomb as long as they don't belong to the same mafia? That way it could also prove problematic for the Mafia if the guy next to the bomb stays alive.
I just wanted it to be a big bomb as reward for staying alive for a certain set of days and then be revealed like an IC. But if killed after reveal he would just kill the killer and nobody else like a normal bomb. For a lnych ofc you could go "the last three votelocked" but doesn't sound quite rewarding. Maybe have the BBB pick three players after being revealed like a mark so if he dies and they are still alive they go boom?



So In general you would like a role like my Greedy Notary as TP, right? Doesn't necessariy kill and all that.

The Greedy Notary (3rd Party)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Townie adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 5 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Mafia/TP reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -5. The Notary wins the game once he has a surplus of 5 Townie votes.

That‘d work better, but sounds kinda OP to me. Either you don‘t survive the needed phases at which point, well, you were a Mafia Member only, still good. And if you do your team is basically given the win(unless town is stomping hard, assuming a normal game with nobody in the lead 3 kills is kinda crazy). Not sure about the goal either(survival) considering that‘s every player‘s goal anyway.

As for Notary I think I just dislike the „vote power“ concept, messing with lynches too much considering he‘s a TP that doesn‘t actually care who gets lynched. Would help him vs getting lynched but that‘s it.

 

[Farfalla]

Gry's look will beat mine when it comes to aging, 'cause this thread is so draining lmao.

 

[James Rye]

That‘d work better, but sounds kinda OP to me. Either you don‘t survive the needed phases at which point, well, you were a Mafia Member only, still good. And if you do your team is basically given the win(unless town is stomping hard, assuming a normal game with nobody in the lead 3 kills is kinda crazy). Not sure about the goal either(survival) considering that‘s every player‘s goal anyway.

As for Notary I think I just dislike the „vote power“ concept, messing with lynches too much considering he‘s a TP that doesn‘t actually care who gets lynched. Would help him vs getting lynched but that‘s it.

But the 3 deaths would only happen if killed or lynched and if necessary it could be reduced to lynched only then 3 kills and if killed only kills the killer. Also Towns could ignore the BBB until it is the last Mafia to lynch or they could have a Bomb defuser defuse it, making it lynchable without any kills again or have a Vigilante or Prosecutor who haven't used their kill actions yet on the BBB or the other Mafia thinks for whatever reason that they need to sacrifice one of their own to get rid of the bomb (which most likely will never happen for no good reason).
Or would it be better if it was like a mix of bomb and townie Kamikaze bomb? Like if it makes to a certain day it gets revealed and if not lynched it kills two people of their choice next day phase? That would give the kill/defuse actions time to work on the bomb and the bombs "worth of 3 last voted lynch killl" get reduced to 2 of free choice while dying himself as well.

As for the Greddy Notary he does care who gets lynched. His victory condition is after all to collect 5 Townie votes and prevent Mafia/TPs from being lynched as that would hinder his chances to win as each of them basically takes a townie vote out. So a GN might have on day 3 3 votes and after day 3 4 but only if on each day a townie was lynched. With dets, spies and the lies of mafia a singel mafia lynch would reduce his 3 to a 2 and so on, throwing him back 2 days as he didn't got his 4th vote. Also once he is known, Mafia will kill hom to prevent his victory or he gets outlynched if more people are alive than he got vote power on his own. It will be a difficult role especially if a mistake or sudden vote switches happen and people notice that the votes don't align with the lnych. We already got the SS who lets people vote but their votes don't actually count, teh GN would take the votes of the lynched and add them to his own. And since he has the trouble of townies wanting to lnych mafia at day and mafias wanting to kill townies at night he is faced with a dwindling amoung to townie votes to lnych for, plus the longer the game goes on the more and more townies will be confirmed thus very unlikely to see them getting lynched. So sooner or later a NG will have to make use of his gathered vote power to influence the voting in his favor to win the game and thsu expose himself as people could do simple math to wonder why a 3 voted got lynched over a 5 voted plus it means one of the 3 has to be the NG. In that regards the NG works similar to the robber but he is passive and the robber has a team to work with his 2nd votelocked stolen vote whereas the NG is Solo Yolo.

 

[Copy Panda]

Gry's look will beat mine when it comes to aging, 'cause this thread is so draining lmao.

Lmao bold of you to say that

 

[Lambu]

The forgemaster(3rd party): Each night the forgemaster can raise a dead player to become part of his army. (It can be any dead player, mafia, town, or another 3rd, lynched or killed), once the number of his army is bigger than the number of players from other factions, he wins.(Ex. 5 players - 3 town, 2 mafias +him and his 5 person army, then he wins). The dead players that joined his army can no longer be targeted by mortician, because they are not dead anymore. His undead army dies with him.

-he can be blocked by any role
-If he becomes an illusion, he cannot revive any player, he just thinks he did
-Maybe he can receive a count of players in his army, but not sure if confirming his success on the action would be good. This is just a comment.
- when he dies, all the undead can be targeted by mortician again, including him

alternative version:

The forgemaster(3rd party): Each night the forgemaster can raise a dead player to become part of his army. Each 2 nights (on even numbered nights) if the forgemaster is targeted by a spy/det, or any investigative roles, the player that investigated him gets a resukt of affiliation/action performed by one of the dead players In his army ( ex.: the det gets the affiliation of a random townie/mafia the forgemaster revived, a spy would get a target one of his dead players had or no result). When the number of his army is bigger than the number of players from other factions, he wins.The dead players that joined his army can no longer be targeted by mortician.


I had this idea, would like to know if its a playable role or not good at all. It is similar to Santa and shapeshifter, but he doesn’t really kill like some other 3rd parties.

Neutral towards this, doesn't sound broken so it wont clash with what we have, but the gameplay behind it doesn't convince me, its basically: survive



As for James' roles I'll be brief.


Troublemaker: Neutral, might be an interesting choice depending on the set up tho I can't imagine Town making good use of it except in massive games.

Energy Drink Promoter: No

Nurse: No, Insane doc is all the rng we need in protection roles.

Helpful/Unhelpful Maid: No, way too situational, the idea is nice but not exactly useful in a real context.

Confused Guide: No, redirect sucks.

Old Cat Lady: No, ironically I was fonder of the first version despite being rng lol.

Notary: No

Mafia Notary: Hell NO

Greedy Notary: No

Brought Judge: Nooo

Mason Guardian, Mason Insepctor, Mason Snitch: No, unnecessarily complex.

Werewolf: Neutral, interesting but would need revision on how many chances it really has of fulfilling its purpose. Townie version is a No.

Samurai: Neutral, a double-edged improved BG, not a fan but won't oppose.

Robber: Yes, an interesting variant to Gambler.

Police Officer: Yes, anything that counters Assassin is welcome.

Big Bang Bomb: No, it would be hilarious tho.

 

[Vandred]

Oh I like Lambu's format.


Troublemaker: No, I don't agree with a single townie getting to choose when there's got to be a double lynch.

However, I could rather see it being a single-use unlock for Masons, like when there are 2 or more + Recruiter, than getting them one of the conventional protection/investigation roles.

Energy Drink Promoter: No, just put two of the same role in the setup instead of recharging one player?

Nurse: No, Bodyguard's buff was precisely to cover the daytime protection needs, and RNG is bad.

Helpful/Unhelpful Maid: No, there are only a couple of roles that actually benefit from getting from P3 to P2, otherwise it would mostly mean a 50% chance to fail. Sanities also mean you can't choose to help someone or hinder them, you just do either at random.

Confused Guide: No, the idea of a mafia getting his kill redirected on a teammate is awful and broken, and the idea that anything could get redirected makes every result unreliable.

Old Cat Lady: Neutral, not sure if it's stronger or weaker than a Spy, honestly.

Notary, Mafia Notary: No, I can see these getting awfully out of hand and making it less fun for everyone involved.

Greedy Notary: No, fairly sure it's mathematically impossible for him to win if he has to see FIVE townies get lynched plus one for every lynched mafia... all while staying alive?

B(r)ought Judge: No, just no lol

Mason Guardian, Mason Inspector, Mason Snitch: No, the very point of Mason-recruiting someone is to confirm them at the expense of their role. Giving them a new, easily better role goes against that.

TP Werewolf: Neutral for how it is now, I agree with Lambu that it's an interesting idea but would need some adjusting.

Townie Werewolf: No, feels like it should be a threat to get rid of rather than a potential asset for town to destroy the mafia with.

Samurai: Yes, nothing against it.

Robber: Yes, feels like it would fit nicely in a semi-vanilla game

Police Officer: No, being able to protect three people at once is insane, one would be the maximum amount I'd be okay with... and there's Bodyguard for that.

Big Bang Bomb: No, being able to kill three people at once is also insane.

Forgemaster: No, it's not very interesting gameplay in its current versbut I think something could come out of TPs that raise the dead. Not sure I'd like to see a lot of TP roles in the list, though...


PGO update: Neutral, but leaning more towards a no than a yes. The PGO knowing if he's already killed someone would change a fair bit.

Lovers update: No, the idea is that they already have their roles.

Burden and Assassin updates: Already being discussed.

+ Thought of the Day +

Brevity is a virtue.​

 

[James Rye]

Heavy restrictions here, so I like it a lot more than Fallen Noble. I‘d test it.

Approved.

Robber: Yes, an interesting variant to Gambler.

Robber: Yes, feels like it would fit nicely in a semi-vanilla game

So since Mafia Robber got 3 Approvals does this mean we can move it to the other three testing roles, @GrySun ?

 

[GrySun]

So since Mafia Robber got 3 Approvals does this mean we can move it to the other three testing roles, @GrySun ?

I think so, but was first gonna count the approvals/neutrals/disapprovals. If you have time on your hands you can do the count for your roles.

 

[James Rye]

I think so, but was first gonna count the approvals/neutrals/disapprovals. If you have time on your hands you can do the count for your roles.

What? Me? All of them?
....
Should have suggested less roles. <.<

 

[GrySun]

What? Me? All of them?
....
Should have suggested less roles. <.<

Helps you put in perspective how many to suggest in the future

 

[James Rye]

Helps you put in perspective how many to suggest in the future

20+ or so, I'd say.

Not sure how to interpretate Copy's comments, some feel neutral, most negative, maybe one or two even positive, not sure. @Copy Panda You think you can redo your Review in a similar way like the others?
Gonna count gry's, Lambu's and Van's vote so far:

Troublemaker:
1-1-3

Energy Drink Promoter:
0-0-5

Nurse:
0-1-4

Helpful Maid/Unhelpful Maid:
0-2-3

Confused Guide:
0-1-4

Old Cat Lady (updated 2.0 version aka reverse Spy, thus Gry's Not Approved was discounted as it was for the old version 1.0):
0-1-2

Notary:
0-0-4

Mafia Notary:
0-0-5

Brought Judge:
0-0-5

Greedy Notary:
0-0-5

Werewolf:
1-2-1

Samurai:
1-2-2

Mafia Robber:
3-1-2

Police Officer:
1-0-3

Big Bang Bomb:
0-0-4

Phew.
Seems Mafia Robber is most positive so far. Followed by Werewolf and Samurai and then Troublemaker with Police Officer.

@GrySun If you got give the reverse Spy OCL 2.0 a view instead of the OP OCL 1.0 version, that's be nice. Also PO and GN too, if you were so kind.
@Lambu As for the RNG first version 0.X that was the one who chose some people at the start as her "neighborhood" and got told either if someone of them used an action, if an action got used on them or what action got used in her neighborhood but not who did it. Back then it had its fans but it never really took off so I thought I reused its name for a reverse Spy version. I am not sure what you voted on the OCL years ago but given your comment I think you were more positive to it then. What's so bad about being told who used actions on somebody you observed? After all it can be ranging from 0-many whereas a Spy watches someone hopefully doing something to somebody else you also got no result. If only one used an action on someone the OCL observed and he died she can say similar to how a spy says he spied on somebody targeting somebody and said target is dead now. However if several people targeted the dead player then the OLC would not know who did the kill actions of the many players whereas the Spy would not bother with that as he can only spy on one person so saying "I didn't do the kill, someone else must have" is a regular defense comment against accusations from the Spy.
@Vandred About the Greedy Notary, technically he will have more than not have two votes on day 2 so he could technically influence the voting like a Noble would and if another townie dies he had 3 votes further increasing his influence on who dies. I thought 5 Townie votes would be fair since a santa also has to do 5 presents while risking blocks and deaths (either himself or the one who should have received a gift) and unlike a GN cannot increase his chances of success to gift someone something. And if it goes the other way around and the GN becomes negative due day 1 and day 2 Mafia/TPs getting lynched he can use the negative votes to help a mafia in first spot survive if the 2nd one is voted close enough to him. Maybe it could be changed to Oppurtunistic Notary, like if his vote is positive he has to win on his own/win with Mafia and if it is negative he wins with town together. Like make him a TP that is always ready to switch sides while having to figure out who is Mafia and who is Town and whohas best chances to win the game while hoping he never gets found by a det and lynched himself or killed at night. It also would be the first TP that wins with either side and not on his own but it would depend on its "vote power" what side it is forced to win with.

 

[Copy Panda]

Redo the review ?

 

[James Rye]

Redo the review ?

Yes, please. And keep in mind that some roles like the OCL and such got redones?

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I like the Oppurtunistic Notary more than the Greedy Version:

The Oppurtunistic Notary (3rd Party)
Passive - Collects the votes of the lynched Townie/Mafia/TPs and adds their value to his own vote, increasing or decreasing it. A lynched Townie adds +1 to the Notary vote value to the Maximum of 5 including the Notary's own vote. A lynched Mafia/TP reduces the Notary vote value by -1 to the Minimum of -5. The Notary wins the game with the side that his vote power binds to - positive Mafia/TP, negative Town.

That way he is basically a "guilty" Townie/Traitor/TP/whateverswitchero who depending on how the lynches go will either support Town or Mafia, so it could count as +1 for Mafia or +1 for Town during the game. So it tries to join the "strongest" lynch side to survive&win the game.

 

[Hardy]

I have never seen a role so convoluted do so little, I disapprove the robber.

 

[James Rye]

I have never seen a role so convoluted do so little, I disapprove the robber.

Noted. So it should be able to freely move the stolen vote around then like a Noble does with his extra vote?