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Unfortunately for me, I'm probably going to be going to bat for that series like Jammin was going to bat for Sakura. Then again, the hatred for Bleach isn't too bad here, unlike other forums I frequent.
If Hinata had said it, I'd have loved it even more!
(ffs... why wasn't it Hinata?!? That would've been a great [and super easy] chance to give her and Naruto's 'relationship' some bonus points - I guess it would've been a tad weird for her to be there in the first place)
Fact is, Sai's the one who did say it, so Sai's the one who gets the credit
Im talking about him being edo-ed therefore ruined. most of characters i think of, that have been edo-ed, were relevant to the plot (Asuma, Chiyo, Zabuza etc.), before the war (actually its precisely the reason they were edo-ed, just fanservice) I have nothing against deidi he was among the briliant chars kishi created when the story was still good ( i just dislike those mouths in his hands, too weird, creepy... )
Ah you meant like deceased hokage, Hanzou, dan etc..? my bad, i misunderstood, apologies, i thought you were refering to characters edo-ed , generally speaking.
Yes and how was he gonna extract kyuubi from naruto ? If he kidnaps him while still small, he has on his tail multiple shinobis and risk of him getting exposed or hindrance in his plans. Moreover, there was no akatsuki still or had tht much power to stop the whole military might of a village.
Who could possibly catch him?
Kamui is far, far, too hax
He just warps Naruto to his Kamui dimension and they'd never ever find him - he doesn't even need to extract the 9 tails right away... just bring Naruto up himself (until he'd obtained the rest of the bijuu) and no one would be the wiser
If Hinata had said it, I'd have loved it even more!
(ffs... why wasn't it Hinata?!? That would've been a great [and super easy] chance to give her and Naruto's 'relationship' some bonus points - I guess it would've been a tad weird for her to be there in the first place)
Fact is, Sai's the one who did say it, so Sai's the one who gets the credit
It's what a good writer would have done. Have Hinata actually angry and really let Sakura have it and in so doing build her up as the best romantic choice. Then eventally have her do that where Naruto can overhear. You get all the same trashing of Sakura and it leads to an actual romance.
Instead Neji, combat expert, had to die via pointy stick because...
Who could possibly catch him?
Kamui is far, far, too hax
He just warps Naruto to his Kamui dimension and they'd never ever find him - he doesn't even need to extract the 9 tails right away... just bring Naruto up himself (until he'd obtained the rest of the bijuu) and no one would be the wiser
Well, getting probed in tht early would pose a threat to him in getting other bijuus or setting up akatsuki. And some concrete intel means total loss or end before it ever began.
Moreover hiruzen could keep an eye on naruto through the ball if i remember correctly. And if obito reveals sharingan, it is kinda end for him.
Kamui does seem like a very tempting idea, but i do think tht the moment he takes naruto away , the search organized for him on grand scale would have further complicated his achieving of goals. So, even getting naruto does not seem a good deal since konoha treats their JINs rather seriously.
Not like it can't work, but no of factors will have to be in place for obito to succeed despite the risks.
MEH shld have gotten tht stuff explained a bit well, I guess.
If Hinata had said it, I'd have loved it even more!
(ffs... why wasn't it Hinata?!? That would've been a great [and super easy] chance to give her and Naruto's 'relationship' some bonus points - I guess it would've been a tad weird for her to be there in the first place)
I missed him initially so thank you for allowing the change (good stuff with Sakura, btw).
Those epic feats remind me of the good times I spent trolling educating Itachi fans about how easily Yondaime would end his life. He Alt+F4'd kage level opponents in seconds. Just shhh, Minato >> your fave.
I don't buy merchandise like posters or figurines... but I might one day buy a kunai like his, even if I have to decorate it myself. Would be a nice piece to put on a wall, pretend I teleported home and stuff.
Oh, like the Hyuuga, you mean?
Now I think about it... they never got the chance to become the Hokage either
If any clan should've plotted a coup - murdering innocents to seize power - it should've been the Hyuuga...
It's kinda in the name, what a police force does
Yes, but if you are going to try and accuse people of going out of their way to 'justify' what Tobirama did (or justify liking his character), there needs to be far more concrete evidence of him actually doing bad things in the manga
If we are to say that the Uchiha coup was somehow justifiable then, to me, there needs to be a whole lot more than 'he told us to live in this part of town and gave us an incredibly important and powerful role in the operation of the village'
My arguments are with how cack-handedly it was done - makes it really hard to buy any of the bullshit that is tied to it
Itachi being a 'hero' - or his actions being, in any way, justifiable
Tobirama being a villain
Madara/Obito being somehow less evil cunts than they were shown to be
etc.
Did the Senju and Hyuuga have intense war with each other? Did the Senju or Tobirama have any prejudice towards the HYuuga? Did the Hyuuga have any aspirations to become the Hokage? The worst thing I can remember that happened to them was no justice when the Cloud tried to kidnap Hinata, instead choosing to sacrifice Hiashi's twin brother.
No shit. I'm talking about the Uchiha. What was their power? Were they able to do punish any rulebreakers or just capture and throw them in jail?
There are concrete evidence. Anyway, lakhan explained it better than I did... thankfully we have a Naruto otaku that still remembers the series.
Yeah, it was all done so horribly, but both sided as well. One side can look at Itachi as a hero because he sacrificed his life to put down a rebellion before it happened to protect the village, while Tobirama is a villain for how prejudiced he was, pushing the Uchiha away and treating them suspiciously, and etc.
Hashirama was such a good an enigmatic character until he was Edo Tensei'd again. Then he became horrible and too Naruto-esque, probably so characters could compare him to Hashirama. The flashback started out great, Madara vs. Hashirama, then it devolved into Hashirama acting like a derp. He wasn't bad in his first Edo Tensei appearance though, and throughout his appearances he actually had some great moves.
Sasori was so good. Not only was his puppetry interesting, but he also played a part in Sakura being badass for once (and the only time). Granny Chiyo was a badass as well, which probably explains Sasori being cool.
'Naruto-kun, I understand your feelings so much that it hurts. But the fighting should occur in the matches. Whether a loser can defeat an elite through the power of hard work. That's something to look forward to in the main test... though his opponent might be me.' - Lee
'...I can't be the only one to lose here... Guy Sensei acknowledge it... this is the time I prove and protect my ninja way!!!' - Lee
About Lee:
One of many great side characters who got jobbed hard in P2.
I remember Lee's encounter with Sasuke very well. As a huge Sasuke-fanboy back then, the thought of anyone beating Sasuke - especially with his newly awakened shiny Sharingans - was blasphemous. But instead of disliking this 'fuzzy eyebrows' guy, I instantly came to love him for his badass taijutsu. There is seriously not much else to say here, since his P1 appearances speak for himself. His fight against Gaara became a classic. And even though he was inferior to Kimimaro, he put up an awesome and partly funny performance. It is too bad that we could never see him duke it out with Neji.
'My dream isn't in the future… It's in the past… That's where it'll always be.' - Sasuke
About Sasuke:
Sasuke was my favorite character when I started with Naruto. Cool design, genius, with a mysterious, fucked up and sad background, a flashy fighter and so on. Kishimoto gave him many awesome fights and he is still among the characters I consider to have one of the most eye-candyish fighting styles ever. His whole pursuit for revenge didn't feel off, and Kishimoto made a nice connection/circle with Akatsuki targeting Naruto while Sasuke's target - Itachi - is part of this very organization. The future looked quite promising in my eyes considering the fact that Sasuke also started to warm up to others. Overall, Sasuke was a great character in P1 I think, even though I could never understand the fact that he went to Orochimaru, who at that point was one of the most feared and powerful villains in the story. Always thought that this decision of Sasuke - considering his level and awareness of what Orochimaru was up to - was very stupid, regardless of what he went through until then. But what's done is done, eh? In the end it worked.
In P2, he was mostly a miss and in rare cases a hit for me. After the truth about Itachi, I actually liked his decision to only go for the village leaders. That was something I could comprehend (and wanted to see), even though it went completely against Itachi's will. But that was never the case, Sasuke ultimately went batshit crazy and tried to murder any and everything on his pathway, literally spitting on his brother's grave (not 100% undeserved for how much Itachi fucked him over though, lol). Everything else is known…
Call me a lunatic, but after those 700 chapters, I believe Sasuke would have worked way better as a protagonist with Naruto, and maybe as a short/mid-term antagonist than whatever the hell Kishimoto did to him in P2.
Rock Lee was a great character. Awkward, but that hid how great he was and his potential. Dude brought some normality to this world of ninjutsu with his pure taijutsu style, and that made his fights so fun to watch. His fight against Gaara was great, and his fight against Kimimaro was fun and good, and Gaara joining made it even better. Naruto was about hard work, but Rock Lee was about hardest work. A true inspiration. Plus, his interactions with Sakura were hilarious, usually, but he also earned her respect by standing up to the Sound nins. My nipples quivered when he said the lotus would bloom again to Sakura after the L, and bloom again it did. I only wish he had better fights and did far more in Part II.
Sasuke was a great character too, and a great rival for Naruto. What I hate though is that in Part II, he became Naruto and Sakura's main focus, and he became stupid after Tobi revealed everything. How the fuck are you going to claim you love Itachi, but then vow to destroy everything he sacrificed himself for just for vengeance? And to be easily manipulated by Tobi, the hokage, Itachi, Orochimaru, and etc? I'd have preferred Sasuke stay in Konoha and keep being Naruto's rival or be an antihero but still a rival, without Naruto and Sakura trying to get him back.
One good memory I have (or many memories) is how well he and Naruto worked together and how they could usually understand each other well. They were great complements - Sasuke could analyze stuff and figure things out while Naruto could use his unorthodox ways to deal with things if needed. The way Team 7 dealt with the clones in the Forest was great, and I think it'd have been great to see Sasuke and Naruto work together to beat Gaara.
Sasuke's turn as a villain was not handled well at all, given few chapters or arcs ago he was unwilling to kill innocent people. Sasuke may not have cared for anyone at the start of the manga, but the fact that he was willing to kill Sakura and Karin did not sit right with me, as was his willingness to abandon Suigetsu and Juugo when he tried his best to save them against Bee.
Hell, even after the Hokage turned him "good" again, he was still willing to kill people to change things, and that made no sense. The only consolation from this is that Boruto Sasuke is actually pretty good but still a bit like Naruto Sasuke, at least with his words.
'Become Hokage eh? It's impossible with that. I can figure it out with these eyes. Talent is decided at your birth. You could say that everything is decided when a person is born.' - Neji
Just why, Masashi Kishimoto? Just why... I don't know what to say.
As for Madara…
Host-mode off:
I will try to keep it as short as possible. I have told you that there are three characters I consider the worst in anime/manga history. Obito is one of them. And here we have the second one, Uchiha Madara. So, who is Uchiha Madara you might ask?
When I look at him, I see two kind of persons. Two of which 99% of you have encountered in your live.
The one person is that guy who blatantly uses every possible cheat in a game against you, defeats you, and boasts how great he is in the most disgusting way imaginable.
And now for the other.
The other person is that one guy who blatantly uses every possible cheat in a game against you, but is still unable to best you.
Madara is always one of these two. Always. No grey area. Nothing inbetween.
An utter, boring, dull, selfish villain who rode his own dick more often than all por-- let me stop here.
A villain who should have no right to exist in any work. He took all the major Ls there are in the manga and couldn't accomplish anything on his own. His drive, motivation, and reasonings would give those of President Trump a run for his money. He is a freaking laughing stock. A failure as a villain, as a character, literally at everything.
Retrospectively speaking, he - hand in hand with Obito - completely annihilated this once masterpiece of a series.
Thank you. Masashi Kishimoto.
I will give the mic to 'lakhan & friends' who can praise this guy for how powerful he is and how he neg-diffs anyone.
Ah, Neji. Neji deserved so much better. He had considerable amount of screen time, and his fight against a Sound 4 was pretty good, and it added to his character. I forgot the spider-guy's name, but the way Neji was willing to put his life on the line with no hesitation was so badass, and he was just 14 or 15 (or was he the same age as Naruto but graduated earlier?). I think he's the only one of the two Konoha on that mission who didn't have help in winning? Kiba had the puppet master, Temari helped Shikamaru, and Rock Lee and Gaara fought together.
And then in Part II, he barely got any attention and when he did, he died. What's even worse is that his death was meaningless, and as someone who did like him and his growth in Part I, I didn't feel sad at all. He was a visual representation of how bad Kishi got at writing characters, because I went from being sad at Jiraiya dying to not caring about Neji's death. It's a shame because Neji's development was great.
Madara... Madara could have been a great character when he was brought back, but he became boring and one-dimensional with his boner for Hashirama, and getting tricked and pwned by Kaguya and Black Zetsu. He was fun to watch when he came back, and once he got the Juubi power, he became boring. Overpowered? Yes. Supremely overpowered? Annoyingly so, but still. I wish he vs. the kage and Naruto were more fun and even though. Interestingly, out of the two characters he was much better than Hashirama, at least as Edo Tensei. Hashirama was Naruto Sr., but Madara was his own with some insanity mixed in.
Okay, I'm very salty now and fuck everyone who didn't get Naruto in the top 5. He deserves better. Part I Naruto is what got me into the manga, while his character may have been annoying, I loved seeing how clever he could be in fights. His fight against Kiba will be one of the best and one of my favorites just because he used his own power to outsmart Kiba (in a funny way) and beat him. He proved to people why he belonged in the exam, but his first badass moment came when he overcame his fear, ran towards Zabuza, and got his headband back. It was great to see his journey and how he went from being hated to being respected by the end of Part I, all from sheer determination and refusal to quit. Sure, the Kyuubi played a part in his victories, but Naruto chose to keep fighting, and that's what I loved about him. He fought. And he had heart that could change people and inspire them, as seen with Tsunade. I also saw him as someone who was smart, but lacked focus to really utilize his intelligence. Nothing like Shikamaru, but closer to Sasuke, mind you.
Come Part II, where Naruto was a bit more mature. Still a good character, but his Sasuke-centric focus did put me off a bit, but the conflict with his seal weakening was an interesting twist. Not to mention, the way Sakura started being concerned about Naruto and realized the danger he was in because of the Akatsuki and their strength. I liked seeing him master the rasenshuriken, but the highlight of Naruto in Part II came during the Pain arc, where he was serious and fought with all he had. I LOVED the fight because he was smart, strategic, and in the end, his shrewd, prankster self. He had a conflict that made him turn Kyuubi mode, a great reunion with his father, and after that he had hope in himself again and started fighting Pain without Sage Mode (?). I do think he started out beating two or three Pain too quickly, but other than that, I thought him mastering Sage Mode where Jiraiya couldn't marked Naruto's growth and ability to control his chakra well enough, so I was beyond excited to see that Naruto.
Then, book no jutsu. That should have been the sign that this manga would go downhill and crash horribly. All it took for Nagato to turn good and revive everyone was book no jutsu, and Naruto turned that into talk no jutsu. After that, Naruto's character started going downhill until it became absolute shit by the end of the war, simplifying his character immensely to a goofy character who derped up and whose argument was solely "BELIEVE IN ME, I AM SON OF MINATO!!" Didn't help that it worked either. People whine about Sasuke's asspulls, but Naruto kept getting asspulls after asspulls as well, to the point that his fights became boring because of the Kyuubi shroud. I hate that he and Kyuubi got along because that was one conflict removed, and access to free powerups. It became clones and rasenshuriken city, and the only highlights were the flashbacks of Kushina and Minato and Naruto and Sasuke working together.
Actually, now that I remember War arc Naruto, I'm surprised he even made it to top 13. Even Sasuke was probably better than Naruto by the end. If it weren't for that, and if we considered Naruto up to Pain arc, he'd probably easily be top 8. Top 5 if he kept his growth and maturity into the War ARc. I think the Naruto that we see in Boruto should have been Naruto in the War Arc, but not as mature and serious yet.
'Turning your back on the country, on the village, is just as bad as abandoning a child. You should understand... you saw your own country fall apart. You know the pain of growing up without a home of your own... and you know that we are a family of shinobi!'
'Naruto... This is your dad. Listen to your motor-mouth mother.'
'...Hakke no Fuuin...'
He was one of the most prodigious shinobi's Konoha's.
Became Hokage at a very young age.
His enemies got a flee on sight order.
One of the fastest shinobi's in the entire series.
Could deal with A and Killer Bee at the same time.
Able to fight off Kurama.
Aizenstomped the shit out of Obito, even though being at a disadvantage the whole time.
Died protecting the village while ensuring that Konoha doesn't lose its nuke.
Saved the village from his grave again due to the fail-safe in Naruto.
Saved the ninja alliance's ass when he got revived.
Saved Kushina from Kumogakure's fangs as a teenager while others failed.
No Kekkei Genkai.
No powerful clan (yet! But with the Boruto series, you never know. It wouldn't surprise me if tons of Namikaze's roam around the world, lol).
Feared and praised by countless people at the top.
Minato was such a good character even in flashbacks, but once he got revived, he became shitty. Dude became a joke and a comedic character out of nowhere, and probably another attempt at doing a Naruto-esque character despite the fact that we've never seen Minato be like this before. I remember when 3c and I squeed when Minato appeared when Naruto was about to free the Kyuubi, and how great that whole exchange was, and I remember being disappointed at how shitty he was throughout the war. Completely useless, and he was a copycat. Rasengan came from the idea of bijuu bomb while Hiraishin was from Tobirama.
Not gonna lie though, part of what made Minato less likeable were his fans like jdw, claiming Minato could defeat almost everyone, even Itachi despite proof otherwise. He was overhyped and annoying, so it did make it sweet when he underperformed during the war and looked like a weak scrub who couldn't keep his arms. Loser all around.
Eww. Was bad in Part I, first arc of Part II misled us into thinking she'd be badass for rest of the series, and turned shit again, and even worse in the last arc. Her ship with Sasuke is probably the worst and makes no sense, I'd even prefer Choji with whats-her-name, that makes more sense than those two.
It's a shame because the way Sasuke left the village still kept that option open, even when it looked like Sakura might fall in love with Naruto. However, the way she was still after Sasuke, even after he tried to kill her, was ridiculous, and I was disgusted by how she was more concerned for him while ignoring Naruto when they were fighting Kaguya. Shame because as a medic ninja, she'd have been a great partner for Naruto who tended to be reckless at times.
Man, I remember when NaruSaku fans used this as an argument for the ship, while most other people either finally soured on Sakura or hated her even more for this.
Did the Senju and Hyuuga have intense war with each other? Did the Senju or Tobirama have any prejudice towards the HYuuga? Did the Hyuuga have any aspirations to become the Hokage?
During the period of time before the Senju and Uchiha clans made Konohagakure, most clans were fighting each other. If there's more info in the non-manga content, I don't know it.
Considering how many characters stated their desires to be Hokage, in the manga, it seems that everyone and their mum wanted to be Hokage, tbh.
I reckon the only reason a Hyuuga didn't appear to want this was that there was never really a main Hyuuga character (Neji and Hinata were, unfortunately, background details)
What was their power? Were they able to do punish any rulebreakers or just capture and throw them in jail?
It's fine, lak knows the non-manga stuff far better than I do. He could probably find some source to support your arguments. I, however, am hobbled by having to rely solely on what was shown in the manga
Here's a little game for you - go through the manga, find how many hints of this 'suppression' occurred before it was stated that the Uchiha were 'suppressed'
Then count how many occurrences of people worshipping Sasuke and the Uchiha - again, do this before the chapter where it was stated the Uchiha suffered somehow
Following this, you can then try and weigh up if you think the Uchiha coup was in any way justifiable
If you still think they had a legitimate reason to want to kill innocent civilians and take power for themselves, I reckon that we will never be able to agree
One side can look at Itachi as a hero because he sacrificed his life to put down a rebellion before it happened to protect the village, while Tobirama is a villain for how prejudiced he was, pushing the Uchiha away and treating them suspiciously, and etc.
During the period of time before the Senju and Uchiha clans made Konohagakure, most clans were fighting each other. If there's more info in the non-manga content, I don't know it.
Considering how many characters stated their desires to be Hokage, in the manga, it seems that everyone and their mum wanted to be Hokage, tbh.
I reckon the only reason a Hyuuga didn't appear to want this was that there was never really a main Hyuuga character (Neji and Hinata were, unfortunately, background details)
Capturing rule breakers and throwing them in jail is punishment, of a kind
I have no idea if there were also Uchiha in the judiciary - I have no idea of any ninja clans who had members in the judiciary...
I know you don't know it as you did not counter me. I'm talking about intense fighting, and the flashback said that Senju and Uchiha were the main enemies warring each other. If I recall correctly, manga says that if one clan was warring the Senju or Uchiha, they usually had the Uchiha or Senju to help them. I can't think of another rivalry/enmity that had the hatred that the two clans had, perhaps you can?
The best you seem to have is assumptions. I don't remember if Neji ever professed that desire, but did Hinata? What about Kakashi? I mean, we've had supporting characters like Kiba say he wanted to be a hokage, so that's really not an excuse.
Have they done that? What was the extent of their powers? I think Tobi even mentioned how making them police force was so they could keep a closer eye while making them feel special. Have we also seen any Uchiha in the Council? If the three elders could become the Hokage's council, then why couldn't Kagami, as he was part of the team as well? Didn't Hiruzen praise Itachi's wisdom? Why not have him succeed after few years to appease the Uchiha?
It's fine, lak knows the non-manga stuff far better than I do. He could probably find some source to support your arguments. I, however, am hobbled by having to rely solely on what was shown in the manga
Here's a little game for you - go through the manga, find how many hints of this 'suppression' occured before it was stated that the Uchiha were 'suppressed'
Then count how many occurances of people worshipping Sasuke and the Uchiha - again, do this before the chapter where it was stated the Uchiha suffered somehow
Following this, you can then try and weigh up if you think the Uchiha coup was in any way justifiable
If you still think they had a legitimate reason to want to kill innocent civilians and take power for themselves, I reckon that we will never be able to agree
One side can always look at a baby-murdering psychopath and see the good in their actions
People are great at seeing the positives in arseholes
I know nothing out of manga as I stopped watching the anime during the fillers before Naruto left with Jiraiya for two years. I'm going by the manga only.
Which part? First part or second part? Can we really gleam anything from the first part, as for the most part the flashback was from Sasuke's point of view? We never really got to see everything or how the ones in power treated the Uchiha. Out of the flashback, it's quite difficult to find any hint as all the Uchiha but two are dead (three if you want to count Tobi). The citizens wouldn't have any power to oppress or suppress anyone and as far as we know, they never knew the Uchiha were planning a coup. Of course they'd praise the Uchiha, they never had any problem with them. I'm talking about what Tobirama and the elders did.
I don't remember defending the coup? I was just saying what led to the coup and what could have been avoided, from Tobirama's prejudice and incompetence to Itachi or Shisui trying to use Shisui's genjutsu to ease the Uchiha and/or Danzou away from the coup or genocide. I have no idea if you're putting words in my mouth, but my point is that Tobirama's to be blamed, and there's evidence. Doesn't justify the coup, but I wouldn't be surprised if Danzou was actually pushing for the Uchiha towards that as an excuse to kill them.
They are, example being Tobirama. But in this case, I'm sure the readers only justified his bullshit because of their hatred for Uchiha, and especially for Sasuke.
And, as I said to lak, that's the problem. You can retcon anything in the manga and outside the source material. Hell, the author could've retconned in something extreme, like the ANBU secretly running death camps for strong Uchiha - taking them away and murdering them, to keep the peace
The Uchiha could've been forced to wear armbands - been refused to shop with locals/visit the same parks/go to the same entertainment venues... whatever
I mean, it'd still be very hard to enforce these things, what with you having been stupid enough to make them run your police force - but meh...
Maybe they could also go further with the bullshit Uchiha/Senju genes - maybe all Uchiha had it in their DNA to go on murdering sprees, when they turned 18? Then you could try and argue that Itachi was actually doing something good (it'd still be a hard argument to make, but a better one than what can be currently made from the manga [only])
You might not have been - and to be honest, it doesn't really matter. Nothing I see in the manga justifies a coup at all
And that's an issue, if you wish to make the reader feel [in any way] sympathetic for the Uchiha clan - or anti Tobirama/pro Sasuke and his goals
But nothing justifies what Itachi did either
Itachi needs the coup to make sense, for his sudden change to make sense - the less believable the coup seems, the harder it is to buy what Itachi is selling
He killed people who had nothing to do with the coup, all because what? They might grow up to plot a further coup later on?!?
You don't stop a coup by killing everyone, their friends, relatives, and anyone who shares a surname with them...
It's not only immoral and unjustifiable, it's moronic also
Itachi taking part of that instantly revokes all rights he has to the title of hero
If Danzou was also responsible, he is also both an immoral arsehole and an idiot to boot - I'm not sure anyone is arguing against this
Also, laying all the blame at Tobirama's feet also seems pretty hard to justify, going by all the 'terrible' things he was stated to have done in the manga
I have no idea if you're putting words in my mouth, but my point is that Tobirama's to be blamed, and there's evidence
'Sasuke. You and I are similar... We have both experienced the darkness of this world... As such, even the tiniest of hopes can reach our eyes like a beacon. In the past... and even now...'
This is how you make a villain...
...how you give him a change of heart.
...how you reach the hearts of your readers
...how you keep your side character remembered…
...positively.
Despite being a supporter of Naruto, he didn't hesitate to go for the kill against Sasuke.