Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

Who will be Sanji's main opponent during the Raid on Onigashima?


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Prince13333

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What has he done this arc though?
Ok...... Lets go through this Act by Act.

ACT 1,
Not much happens with the crew, Its mainly just the Luffy show......... Zoro cuts the magistrate and has a clash with Hawkins, the rest aren't in the plot for the most part.

ACT 2: Outside of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are literally the strawhats with the most focus/ moments in the Act.......





ACT 3 (Still not finished)


Luffys Defeated Fodder, Clash with Tobi Roppo and is now Fighting Kaido

Zoro Defeated Fodder, Cut Apoo and got the antidote for Chopper and is now Fighting Kaido

Sanji, Defeated Fodder, Saved Momonuske from King, And were now leading to who his matchup is.

Chopper, doctoring feats, and slapped Queen.

The rest of the crew has Defeated Fodder/Numbers and are currently fighting Tobi Roppo............
 

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"isn't anything positive"....... Really? Sanji hasn't had any positive moments at all to you in this arc? Its just been all bad?
Not sure who you're quoting but, I said....

There just isn't anything positive to say about this guy.
Huge difference between what you misquoted and what I said.

Didn't say he's had no positive moments.

I said there's nothing positive to say about this guy.

Your question is like contending with the idea that there's nothing positive to say about a serial killer who gives to charity now and then... reads books to kids. A few good deeds do not change the fact a serial killer will still kill again ultimately making such a person a criminal and evil individual.

Sanji may not be a killer, but he's someone who prioritises his lust for women and his stupid code over everything else which makes him scum.



How in the world do you go to a war and the first thing you think about is women? when the person you're supposed to be protecting is taken hostage and is potentially about to be killed where time is of the essence?

Let me put it like this for you. If someone you cared for got kidnapped by ransom... would you then go to a fine restaurant, a spa, do some shopping and then go handle the kidnapping? You focus on resolving the kidnapping and everything else comes after.

Sanji's sickening perverseness really just paints him as a piece of shit. He has had good moments (such as saving Momo), but the issue nonetheless is he still went looking for women first before deciding to get back on track.

Even his comrades are asking why he came to the war if his focus was on women... I'm hoping Oda's highlighting his bullshit code in order to resolve it and have it stop being an issue because as of now, he's just garbage unfortunately.
 
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M3J

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None of those are positive. I said what I did with those panels in mind, and Sanji could have avoided Drake and Page One wrecking shops and stalls trying to look for him.
 

Prince13333

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None of those are positive. I said what I did with those panels in mind, and Sanji could have avoided Drake and Page One wrecking shops and stalls trying to look for him.
None of those are positive? Ok What is a positive Sanji moment in your opinion? Because it seems everyone has their own interpretation on what is positive for Sanji.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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None of those are positive? Ok What is a positive Sanji moment in your opinion? Because it seems everyone has their own interpretation on what is positive for Sanji.
Every character has a positive "moment" if we're being literal. A moment is not on going, it's just a brief period and even Caesar can look good in a moment. He aided in Zou... but that doesn't make him a good guy.

Even Kanjuro has had countless good or positive moments.

Hell... even Kaido showed he cared for Jack... does that make Kaido good? Definitely not. He's a mass murderer and someone who is happy to enslave people in the cruellest way possible.

Sanji's problem is not a lack of a good moment, he's had those in this arc... every single person has had a good moment. What the problem is... is Sanji's character.

What moral person... what decent human being... puts irrelevant things over the life of others? That's the real problem.
 

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What moral person... what decent human being... puts irrelevant things over the life of others? That's the real problem.
I think this is rather poor framing for this series specifically. Most strawhats have moments of extreme selfishness that endanger others. Luffy is wont to do that a few times an arc. Say, the way he endangered everyone when he just blindly jumped at kaido and got his ass handed to him. Or the dozens other times luffy has been recklessly and perhaps pointlessly selfish. The issue is not the gags here. This is OP, character gags are oda's bread and butter and us readers under normal circumstances just snort that.

The issue with sanji is not that he is selfish or is being stupid. The problem is super simple, sanji simply doesn't have victories against strong enemies in this arc. Or the previous one. Or the one before that. Right now the issue is simply the real possibility that oda contiues to handle sanji as he has done the past 12 years and sanji just did all this stupid shit and doesn't actually get a meaningful victory. God forbid he stumbles into a kitchen and decides to bake a cake for kaido. Sanji has so few feats post timeskip that it doesn't even make sense for him to win against even most of the topo robi...
 

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I think this is rather poor framing for this series specifically. Most strawhats have moments of extreme selfishness that endanger others. Luffy is wont to do that a few times an arc. Say, the way he endangered everyone when he just blindly jumped at kaido and got his ass handed to him. Or the dozens other times luffy has been recklessly and perhaps pointlessly selfish. The issue is not the gags here. This is OP, character gags are oda's bread and butter and us readers under normal circumstances just snort that.

The issue with sanji is not that he is selfish or is being stupid. The problem is super simple, sanji simply doesn't have victories against strong enemies in this arc. Or the previous one. Or the one before that. Right now the issue is simply the real possibility that oda contiues to handle sanji as he has done the past 12 years and sanji just did all this stupid shit and doesn't actually get a meaningful victory. God forbid he stumbles into a kitchen and decides to bake a cake for kaido. Sanji has so few feats post timeskip that it doesn't even make sense for him to win against even most of the topo robi...
There's endangering mistakenly and then what Sanji did.

Recklessness and stupidity are 1 thing. One can just attribute it to emotional outburst, rage, poor intelligence all leading to poor decision making. That can be justified somewhat, understood and even forgiven.

What Sanji did is not recklessness or stupidity, it's straight up immoral. He literally decided to look for prostitutes when he just saw Momo get kidnapped and was supposedly escorting Nami in this pursuit to protect her and save Momo.

I do agree Sanji has not been handled well at all.
  1. Why did Oda have to have Sanji's leg crack against Vergo?
  2. Why no Black Armament which even Bellamy can use?
  3. Did he really need to have Joker embarrass him like that for Law to save him?
Right now, I could just about agree that he doesn't even look fit to take on a Tobi Roppo, but we did see how he handled PageOne. I would at least give him that benefit of the doubt. He has just been treated like shit though.

Sanji not having victories over strong enemies is a bit premature at this point as the arc is still going. We could even have him fighting the CP0 or Perospero (a good match given that he can use flames against candy), but even then... it's hard to envision Sanji defeating a guy that defeated 2 SuLong users. There's the potential he goes on to fight with the scabbards against Jack (who is probably much stronger than Sanji) or he goes to Yamato.

I would like Oda to redeem Sanji by curbing his shit and giving the guy an actual power up. I get he's a cook and everything, but that doesn't mean he has to be weak. Jimbei's a helmsman yet, he's so strong. I'd hope that Oda will redeem Sanji. He's too much of a gag at the moment... almost as bad as Buggy.

Gag characters, I understand if they've been established as one. However, Sanji has never been the gag character even pre-skip. It's like the entire time-skip was just intended for Sanji to acquire some gag gains. He's ruining Sanji as a character.
 

Prince13333

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Not sure who you're quoting but, I said....



Huge difference between what you misquoted and what I said.

Didn't say he's had no positive moments.

I said there's nothing positive to say about this guy.

Your question is like contending with the idea that there's nothing positive to say about a serial killer who gives to charity now and then... reads books to kids. A few good deeds do not change the fact a serial killer can do good things, but will still kill again ultimately making such a person a criminal and evil individual.

Sanji may not be a killer, but he's someone who prioritises his lust for women and his stupid code over everything else which makes him scum.



How in the world do you go to a war and the first thing you think about is women? when the person you're supposed to be protecting is taken hostage and is potentially about to be killed where time is of the essence?

Let me put it like this for you. If someone you cared for got kidnapped by ransom... would you then go to a fine restaurant, a spa, do some shopping and then go handle the kidnapping? You focus on resolving the kidnapping and everything else comes after.

Sanji's sickening perverseness really just paints him as a piece of shit. He has had good moments (such as saving Momo), but the issue nonetheless is he still went looking for women first before deciding to get back on track.

Even his comrades are asking why he came to the war if his focus was on women... I'm hoping Oda's highlighting his bullshit code in order to resolve it and have it stop being an issue because as of now, he's just garbage unfortunately.
This is kind of a weird criticism because we never actually saw Sanji looking for the women. Plus it would definitely take some time to go from the East Side of Onigashima to the Live Floor where momonuske is.The Scabbards went ahead of everyone else and didn't reach the scaffold until chapter 986. Sanji saves Momo in chapter 988. And its implied Sanji was there before the events in 988, since he was in his Raid suit and heard Momonuske's speech. Nami even says herself I "thought" you were chasing women.

As for his Code and Women.....thats a core part of him, its hit or miss for some people....Personally I if I hated a core part of a character I wouldn't even bother being a fan of that character. Tbh I wouldn't even care to rant about a character I hated.
 

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This is kind of a weird criticism because we never actually saw Sanji looking for the women.
Lol, let me refresh your memory...



Chapter 981. They've barely even made it into Onigashima and Sanji's already side-tracked when Nami and Usopp and Kinemon are concerned about Momonosuke.
 

Prince13333

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Every character has a positive "moment" if we're being literal. A moment is not on going, it's just a brief period and even Caesar can look good in a moment. He aided in Zou... but that doesn't make him a good guy.

Even Kanjuro has had countless good or positive moments.

Hell... even Kaido showed he cared for Jack... does that make Kaido good? Definitely not. He's a mass murderer and someone who is happy to enslave people in the cruellest way possible.

Sanji's problem is not a lack of a good moment, he's had those in this arc... every single person has had a good moment. What the problem is... is Sanji's character.

What moral person... what decent human being... puts irrelevant things over the life of others? That's the real problem.
Are pirates suppose to be moral/decent human beings?
 

M3J

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None of those are positive? Ok What is a positive Sanji moment in your opinion? Because it seems everyone has their own interpretation on what is positive for Sanji.
What's positive about any of what you mentioned?

This arc, I can't remember any. Last arc it was simply Sanji being kind to Pudding, baking a cake that saved the crew, and rescuing Luffy. Because he was nice to Pudding even after she tried to kill him, she chose to help him. He was also probably the only one capable of rescuing Luffy and bringing him back, and he did that.

Are pirates suppose to be moral/decent human beings?
The Straw Hats are, at least to a varying degree.
 

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Sanji not having victories over strong enemies is a bit premature at this point as the arc is still going. We could even have him fighting the CP0
Him fighting cp0 (rob and friends) all at once would be cold. :feelsgoodman
 

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Plus it would definitely take some time to go from the East Side of Onigashima to the Live Floor where momonuske is.The Scabbards went ahead of everyone else and didn't reach the scaffold until chapter 986. Sanji saves Momo in chapter 988. And its implied Sanji was there before the events in 988, since he was in his Raid suit and heard Momonuske's speech. Nami even says herself I "thought" you were chasing women.


Don't delude yourself mate. You're simply making excuses, lol.

Scabbards were with Nami and Carrot. We clearly see Sanji leave the group to pursue women despite the situation.

Only reason they know there's no women (or men) as they sneak is because this pervert looks upset at the lack of women...

Maybe you need to re-read the arc again.

As for his Code and Women.....thats a core part of him, its hit or miss for some people....Personally I if I hated a core part of a character I wouldn't even bother being a fan of that character. Tbh I wouldn't even care to rant about a character I hated.
Doesn't matter if it's a core part of him.

Not hitting women, sure okay. At least avoid situations that would make this daft code affect you and your comrades. Sanji's easily one of the smartest characters in the series as we saw pre-skip, yet he's borderline 20 IQ now.

Going out of your way to find women? That's not a code. That's just a different level of selfishness and lack of priorities. This is a war... there are people's lives at stake... the Shogun, your crew mates, the entire Wano.

Not ranting? Irrelevant. A character that's ruining the story should definitely be highlighted. Just ignoring something doesn't make it go away.

This is not a hit or miss... he can love women, but when that stupid code puts others at risk? That's stupid. It's utterly irresponsible.

Luffy loves meat; Zoro loves alcohol; it doesn't mean they'll abandon their duties or saving a comrade because of meat or alcohol. That's not "it's a core part of the character", that's simply nonsensical excuse. Regardless of your quirks, shouldn't allow it to put others in danger.

Even Nami who is a coward which is a "core of her character" as you like to say... didn't let that nonsense denounce her captain even if it could result in her death. She progressed as a character in that very moment.

So, just because some bullshit code is a "core" of a character doesn't justify disgusting behaviour. What's needed is character progression.

At this point, Sanji's actual scum.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Are pirates suppose to be moral/decent human beings?
Sorry, but that's a terrible question. It's like you're trying to justify his actions because they're pirates? That's a new low.

Luffy and the Straw-hats are not typical Pirates, they're good people. Anyone who has been reading the series up until now should know this.
 

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There's endangering mistakenly and then what Sanji did.

Recklessness and stupidity are 1 thing. One can just attribute it to emotional outburst, rage, poor intelligence all leading to poor decision making. That can be justified somewhat, understood and even forgiven.

What Sanji did is not recklessness or stupidity, it's straight up immoral. He literally decided to look for prostitutes when he just saw Momo get kidnapped and was supposedly escorting Nami in this pursuit to protect her and save Momo.

I do agree Sanji has not been handled well at all.
  1. Why did Oda have to have Sanji's leg crack against Vergo?
  2. Why no Black Armament which even Bellamy can use?
  3. Did he really need to have Joker embarrass him like that for Law to save him?
Right now, I could just about agree that he doesn't even look fit to take on a Tobi Roppo, but we did see how he handled PageOne. I would at least give him that benefit of the doubt. He has just been treated like shit though.

Sanji not having victories over strong enemies is a bit premature at this point as the arc is still going. We could even have him fighting the CP0 or Perospero (a good match given that he can use flames against candy), but even then... it's hard to envision Sanji defeating a guy that defeated 2 SuLong users. There's the potential he goes on to fight with the scabbards against Jack (who is probably much stronger than Sanji) or he goes to Yamato.

I would like Oda to redeem Sanji by curbing his shit and giving the guy an actual power up. I get he's a cook and everything, but that doesn't mean he has to be weak. Jimbei's a helmsman yet, he's so strong. I'd hope that Oda will redeem Sanji. He's too much of a gag at the moment... almost as bad as Buggy.

Gag characters, I understand if they've been established as one. However, Sanji has never been the gag character even pre-skip. It's like the entire time-skip was just intended for Sanji to acquire some gag gains. He's ruining Sanji as a character.
The strawhats have always been THAT reckless and THAT stupid... and perhaps even that immoral. Say, remember back in the day when luffy gambled his crew on a whim? Even though it would have been easier to simply fight foxy head on and not make an arc out of him... The strawhats tried to straight up rob the sky folk.... and ended up unknowingly poorer for it. There is no scenario where sanji following after the scent of lovely ladies isn't business as usual for the strawhats. The strawhats always pull up nonsensical stunts and then make up for them through the arc via victories. As I maintain, the issue with sanji is exclusively fights. Sanji is consistently a jackass who then goes on to not win fights. No one would care about sanji's whoring sidequest if there wasn't a possibility of him finishing the arc with as many victories as in dressrosa...

Sanji would be a good match for perospero.. perhaps he is straight up a hard counter unless perospero can produce some candy variety that is more fire resistant...
 

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Him fighting cp0 (rob and friends) all at once would be cold. :feelsgoodman
I wouldn't hold my breath, lol.

All I can do is hope Oda will stop shitting on his character anymore and actually develop it.

For a character who Luffy and co. risked their lives to save because he's worth a 1,000 men apparently, he's not looking close to being worth 1 man. I mean he's literally spitting all over the grave of Pedro's sacrifice with the fact he's not taking things seriously and is only thinking of women, lol.
 

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Lol, let me refresh your memory...



Chapter 981. They've barely even made it into Onigashima and Sanji's already side-tracked when Nami and Usopp and Kinemon are concerned about Momonosuke.
Im referring to the panel you posted in 983...... We never actually saw him looking for women after that. But Honestly I dont see the problem if Sanji ultimately ends up being the one to save Momonuske anyways.......... Yea Nami and Usopp were focused on Momo, but it doesn't matter how focused they were if they couldn't rescue Momo.

Its like Whats more impressive, the person who studies all night and fails ? or the person who actually passes the test?
 

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The strawhats have always been THAT reckless and THAT stupid... and perhaps even that immoral.
Reckless, that's understandable.

They however are reckless or whimsical because they're trying to protect their loved ones.

Sanji's not being reckless, he's simply being selfish because the only thing he's thinking of is women... when they're at war.

Say, remember back in the day when luffy gambled his crew on a whim? Even though it would have been easier to simply fight foxy head on and not make an arc out of him... The strawhats tried to straight up rob the sky folk.... and ended up unknowingly poorer for it.
The Davy Back fight is a LAW in the world of Pirates. They can't back down. It's something they have to do.

Robbing Skypiea, it's not like they made them impoverished. They just saved the entire nation and defeated Enel. They ended racism and civil war. Brought to tribes together and united the entire Skypiea nation. Their stealing was clearly just an attempt to make them look like real pirates, but the fact is it was literally harmless even in that situation. It's an on-going gag, the SHs try to look like pirates even though they're good people and heroes.

Can't compare that to... disregarding your comrades, endangering them because of lust... during war?

There is no scenario where sanji following after the scent of lovely ladies isn't business as usual for the strawhats.
Who said otherwise?

The point is in a war.... he just saw Momonosuke get kidnapped. And his first instinct was to chase after women?

Gag or not, there's no justification when such a stupid code puts others at risk; when has Zoro's alcoholism and Luffy's gluttony been a situation where it was Food vs Comrades or Alcohol vs Comrades, and they chose the former? Not once, they'd always choose comrades over anything, that's the point.

The strawhats always pull up nonsensical stunts and then make up for them through the arc via victories.
Not at all.

Tell me one time where Luffy had to choose between Meat and saving a nation or his comrades, and chose meat?

There's never been a time where this happened.

There's been gags, but there's never been a time where they let their quirks take precedence over what was truly important when it was with lives at stake.

Sanji is consistently a jackass who then goes on to not win fights.
Not at all.

This is literally the first time where it's been this divisive.

WCI, the Cake was absolutely needed because not quelling her rampage would have destroyed the entire WCI. Granted, he could have even poisoned the cake, but chose not to, he could be somewhat forgiven, but in this arc? There's no silver-lining, it was straight up unjustified perversion.

No one would care about sanji's whoring sidequest if there wasn't a possibility of him finishing the arc with as many victories as in dressrosa...
Sanji can whore all he wants, that's not the problem.

The problem is when a stupid reason is why he's disregarding his comrades and putting everyone in danger.

I'm not even concerned with the battles... this is a war arc... he will likely fight someone formidable. Even if he wins, it won't change the fact he's been a piece of shit.

Caring about Sanji fighting is like having the uncle that rapes, but then pays one's way to school or buys them a nice car. The end result doesn't resolve the main issue nor does it justify forgiveness. Sanji can go on to defeat Kaido, the point is he's still chosen to be selfish at a time where one can't be selfish.

What Sanji's doing is like someone knowing their family member is kidnapped, but decides to go to the massage parlour, the club, the bar and then goes off to a Sauna before going to resolve the issue of the family member being kidnapped. Even if they end up saving their kidnapped family member, the fact they did other unimportant things would suggest they're assholes and don't care much for their family members... that's literally what Sanji is doing here in comparison.

Sanji would be a good match for perospero.. perhaps he is straight up a hard counter unless perospero can produce some candy variety that is more fire resistant...
Not necessarily. Just because he can use fire doesn't mean he's strong enough to defeat Perospero. Perospero is a veteran who is capable of using Haki. He defeated 2 SuLong. Strong fighters don't necessarily need their ability to be dangerous, they're still elite fighters without it. Even with flames, Sanji wouldn't be at the advantage because Perospero's ability allows him to create so much candy that flames that Sanji could produce could merely be like flames to a big candle... barely effective.

Unless Sanji's strength is much better than we currently have seen, I doubt he can just beat Perospero. Fire doesn't guarantee victory against Perospero. He's a beast that even Marco acknowledges. He's not going out of his way to fight him, but wanted to even ally because his strength is the real deal.
 

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Sanji is consistently a jackass
how can you argue against people not liking him when you admit he's an jackass?
 

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Don't delude yourself mate. You're simply making excuses, lol.

Scabbards were with Nami and Carrot. We clearly see Sanji leave the group to pursue women despite the situation.

Only reason they know there's no women (or men) as they sneak is because this pervert looks upset at the lack of women...

Maybe you need to re-read the arc again.



Doesn't matter if it's a core part of him.

Not hitting women, sure okay. At least avoid situations that would make this daft code affect you and your comrades. Sanji's easily one of the smartest characters in the series as we saw pre-skip, yet he's borderline 20 IQ now.

Going out of your way to find women? That's not a code. That's just a different level of selfishness and lack of priorities. This is a war... there are people's lives at stake... the Shogun, your crew mates, the entire Wano.

Not ranting? Irrelevant. A character that's ruining the story should definitely be highlighted. Just ignoring something doesn't make it go away.

This is not a hit or miss... he can love women, but when that stupid code puts others at risk? That's stupid. It's utterly irresponsible.

Luffy loves meat; Zoro loves alcohol; it doesn't mean they'll abandon their duties or saving a comrade because of meat or alcohol. That's not "it's a core part of the character", that's simply nonsensical excuse. Regardless of your quirks, shouldn't allow it to put others in danger.



Even Nami who is a coward which is a "core of her character" as you like to say... didn't let that nonsense denounce her captain even if it could result in her death. She progressed as a character in that very moment.

So, just because some bullshit code is a "core" of a character doesn't justify disgusting behaviour. What's needed is character progression.

At this point, Sanji's actual scum.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Sorry, but that's a terrible question. It's like you're trying to justify his actions because they're pirates? That's a new low.

Luffy and the Straw-hats are not typical Pirates, they're good people. Anyone who has been reading the series up until now should know this.
Sanji is smart, idk about one of the smartest characters in the series.......Theres atleast 3 strawhats smarter than Sanji in the crew...... How is Sanji ruining the story right now? His thing with Black Maria got Robin a fight for the first time in almost 20 years.......Do you know how long people have been waiting for a Robin fight??
 

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I wouldn't hold my breath, lol.

All I can do is hope Oda will stop shitting on his character anymore and actually develop it.

For a character who Luffy and co. risked their lives to save because he's worth a 1,000 men apparently, he's not looking close to being worth 1 man. I mean he's literally spitting all over the grave of Pedro's sacrifice with the fact he's not taking things seriously and is only thinking of women, lol.
How can people honestly see the weaker strawhats like Nami, Usopp and Franky fighting Tobi Roppo, and think Sanjis not gonna do anything? Y'all honestly believe the arc is almost over and Sanjis role is done???

This is not Dressrosa where Sanji leaves with half the crew, and Its not a Rescue arc like Wholecake island......
 
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