One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

We’re talking about you calling King and Queen, and thus Zoro and Sanji, near equals because of Kaku and Jabra in Enies Lobby. Not them fighting as 2 and 3, because duh. Of the two of us I’m not the one who looks like they don’t know what they’re talking about…..

You can literally attribute that with every one of their parallel fights....

 

[AmitDS]

What's funny is that for years we were told by the Zoro fandom that the deciding factor for Zoro being far and away stronger than Sanji was the fact that Zoro uses Swords.... and then Oda gives Sanji the perfect defense for sword slashes by giving him an exoskeleton

Oda knows what he is doing.

I remember being told that Sanji would fight Jack or Queen and Zoro wouldn't fight King or would at most low diff King because Zoro 'danced' with Kaido, 'tangoed' with Kaido etc.

How are King and Queen Kaku and Jabra part 2?

 

[Moss Green]

You can literally attribute that with every one of their parallel fights....

Parallel fights post time skip? Does Sanji have fights post-time skip? Must be portrayal but you keep mentioning Kaku and Jabra but so there must be new fights to compare. Care to elaborate?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Parallel fights post time skip? Does Sanji have fights post-time skip? Must be portrayal but you keep mentioning Kaku and Jabra but so there must be new fights to compare. Care to elaborate?

King/Queen vs Zoro/Sanji, it's literally happening right now....

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2021 ---

@Moss Green, this you bro?

.

We’re in a bit of an echo chamber atm where it is very in vogue to complain about One Piece, whether it be pacing or power scaling or whatever people have decided in their heads what the manga SHOULD be instead of what it is. Take this Zoro/Sanji vs King thing for example. Every arc they have BOTH been in where Luffy fights the main boss they take out 2 & 3 respectively. King is literally a swordsman. I hate the word “headcannon” but look at the mental gymnastics people are going through to try and convince themselves otherwise.

This is literally you a few weeks ago....

 

[M3J]

Does Zoro really fight the second strongest and Sanji fight the third strongest, or does Zoro fight the strongest swordsman while Sanji fights the second strongest melee fighter (not counting the captain)? Because like, nearly all of Zoro's opponents have been swordsmen or blade users, while Sanji's fought melee fighters, and I don't understand how there's power levels there. Why would Sanji fight a swordsman or why would ZOro fight a melee fighter???

 

[Pirate Queen]

You are criminally slow

I thought you were trying to deflect but you actually don’t know what we’re talking about. Are you ok? You and AmitDS have been going back and forth saying King and Queen are the new Kaku and Jabra because they’re near equals.

You can’t say King and Queen are like Kaku and Jyabura when the ONLY thing that made them near equals was douriki. They are NOT near equals because Lucci and Kaku are in CP0 and Jyabura is nowhere to be seen. According to your own logic comparing the 2 this would indicate a bigger disparity between King and Queen and Zoro and Sanji but you’re literally too dumb to see it.

Like what does Zoro and Sanji being 2 and 3 have ANYTHING to do with that???

Literally quoted you taking an L, but okay. Since I'm "too dumb" just walk away. Wouldn't want you hurting your big brain trying to figure out your own words

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

You are criminally slow

I thought you were trying to deflect but you actually don’t know what we’re talking about. Are you ok? You and AmitDS have been going back and forth saying King and Queen are the new Kaku and Jabra because they’re near equals.

You can’t say King and Queen are like Kaku and Jyabura when the ONLY thing that made them near equals was douriki. They are NOT near equals because Lucci and Kaku are in CP0 and Jyabura is nowhere to be seen. According to your own logic comparing the 2 this would indicate a bigger disparity between King and Queen and Zoro and Sanji but you’re literally too dumb to see it.

Like what does Zoro and Sanji being 2 and 3 have ANYTHING to do with that???

Does Zoro really fight the second strongest and Sanji fight the third strongest, or does Zoro fight the strongest swordsman while Sanji fights the second strongest melee fighter (not counting the captain)? Because like, nearly all of Zoro's opponents have been swordsmen or blade users, while Sanji's fought melee fighters, and I don't understand how there's power levels there. Why would Sanji fight a swordsman or why would ZOro fight a melee fighter???

Ehhhh actually there are a few things that pointed to jyabura having an advantage over Kaku that makes up the douriki difference
Jyabura had a carnivores DF which are better suited for combat over herbivorous , and he was with his longer , so he had mastered it more

 

[LaGOAT]

I don't think ANYONE is trying to argue that Sanji is stronger than Zoro

I know also we are saying sanji isn’t equal to zoro either

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

I think great swords are a compensation for Devil Fruit

And, it's possible to own great swords/weapons only if you're strong yourselves. Great swords give direction to the owner's powers and haki, but ultimately, it only uses up the owner's own Haki.
Great swords take in so much haki and willpower, that some pleb wielding it will just die fast. We saw this with Kitetsu, the shopkeeper from Louge town said it's cursed and will end in death of the owner - and we saw hints of it when Kitetsu was moving almost like it had a mind of it's own. And then Zoro tamed it, because he was a strong enough wielder.
Enma again, would kill any user who wields it if they are weak, this time by sucking their haki and lifeforce.


Will Roger have a significant nerf if you take away Ace? Yes. But that's like taking away a DF from Luffy/Admirals/Kaido/BM etc. They will still be strong without them, yes, but won't quite be as strong.


Agree and disagree,

Enma is sharper, and can handle more haki than other swords.

There is probably a limit to how much haki a sword can draw, relative to max potential of a swordsman. This limit should be higher for better weapons.

But ultimately, the sword is as strong only because the user has the capacity to match it's potential

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2021 ---

Not really, cause it never seemed like Mihawk was at a disadvantage. While Vergo broke Sanji's leg

Also, Mihawk was casual the entire arc, and is likely Yonko tier, and bare minimum admiral tier.



Yea, kinda agree. Just that I think the gap is larger between each.

Luffy mid-high diff Zoro
Zoro mid-high diff Sanji

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021 ---

Meh, Jinbe is YC3 tier if we're being generous

He was Ace's equal when Ace was a rookie and didn't even pass one year into his career. While Jinbe was in his early 40s and likely peaked.
Ace became a YC2 tier only after 2-3 years on WB's ship

but that prove my point by powerscling wise if when ace join is YC2 tier when with the WB pirates then jinbei is on that same tier

 

[XXGenesis]

Ehhhh actually there are a few things that pointed to jyabura having an advantage over Kaku that makes up the douriki difference
Jyabura had a carnivores DF which are better suited for combat over herbivorous , and he was with his longer , so he had mastered it more

No lol. Those ratings were taken before Kaku even ate a Zoan DF; lmao. So therefore Kaku was stronger even without his fruit.

 

[LaGOAT]

Eeeh, I would agree with this sentiment in the pre-TS, not now though. Luffy at this point is a full-fledged top tier, that gap between him and Zoro and Sanji is a bit bigger.

Nah I disagree kaido has been more damage than luffy and since he been fighting longer than luffy. I feel like since would be a factor in kaido defeat if luffy fought kaido 1v1 from the jump u would have a point but since he had help plus he been fighting ppl be4 they arrive to rooftop

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

Does Zoro really fight the second strongest and Sanji fight the third strongest, or does Zoro fight the strongest swordsman while Sanji fights the second strongest melee fighter (not counting the captain)? Because like, nearly all of Zoro's opponents have been swordsmen or blade users, while Sanji's fought melee fighters, and I don't understand how there's power levels there. Why would Sanji fight a swordsman or why would ZOro fight a melee fighter???

It just happens that the 2nd strongest is a swordsman while the 3rd strongest is in a melee fighter lol.

my thing is this it doesn’t matter what people think of the gap between zoro and sanji the FACT is zoro>sanji point blank period. It isn’t he equal or stronger sanji is weaker than zoro

 

[grey matter]

but that prove my point by powerscling wise if when ace join is YC2 tier when with the WB pirates then jinbei is on that same tier

Ace was 17 when he joined WB pirates.
For months he was trying to assassinate WB in his sleep, and accepted himself as a part of the crew later. And again only much later did he become YC2

Jinbe was Ace's equal when Ace was Luffy's age.

If we are looking logically, Ace should've grown considerably for the next three years, considering his insane genetic potential (which even people like WB and Shanks realized).

But maybe, all Oda wanted to show with the Jinbe fight was that Jinbe is Ace tier, without any indication of growth and such.
In which case, I can buy Jinbe being YC2 tier

But still, what feat has Jinbe shown which indicates he is YC2 tier?
Mid diffing Who's Who is something I can assume Jack doing as well.

my thing is this it doesn’t matter what people think of the gap between zoro and sanji the FACT is zoro>sanji point blank period. It isn’t he equal or stronger sanji is weaker than zoro

The denial that Zoro has always been > Sanji is getting comical at this point lmao.

For all the shit they give Zoro fans, I've almost never seen them equate Zoro to Luffy (just one user here from what I've seen, that too occasionally).

 

[M3J]

It just happened that the 2nd strongest in a swordsman why the 3rd strongest is in a melee fighter lol.

my thing is this it doesn’t matter what people think of the gap between zoro and sanji the FACT is zoro>sanji point blank period. It isn’t he equal or stronger sanji is weaker than zoro

I mean, where's the proof of that? The swordsman could be the third or fourth strongest, and Zoro would still fight him over the second strongest melee fighter, who'd be Sanji's opponent. Regardless of who the stronger opponent is, if there's a swordsman then there's no reason for Zoro to not fight the swordsman.

I legit don't give a shit who of the two is stronger or their power or whatnot, it's just annoying seeing the same stupid arguments over and over, or shitty points constantly made, from either side.

 

[LaGOAT]

Ace was 17 when he joined WB pirates.
For months he was trying to assassinate WB in his sleep, and accepted himself as a part of the crew later. And again only much later did he become YC2

Jinbe was Ace's equal when Ace was Luffy's age.

If we are looking logically, Ace should've grown considerably for the next three years, considering his insane genetic potential (which even people like WB and Shanks realized).

But maybe, all Oda wanted to show with the Jinbe fight was that Jinbe is Ace tier, without any indication of growth and such.
In which case, I can buy Jinbe being YC2 tier

But still, what feat has Jinbe shown which indicates he is YC2 tier?
Mid diffing Who's Who is something I can assume Jack doing as well.



The denial that Zoro has always been > Sanji is getting comical at this point lmao.

For all the shit they give Zoro fans, I've almost never seen them equate Zoro to Luffy (just one user here from what I've seen, that too occasionally).

Better question wat feat does ace have that jinbei can’t perform at the same lvl

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

I mean, where's the proof of that? The swordsman could be the third or fourth strongest, and Zoro would still fight him over the second strongest melee fighter, who'd be Sanji's opponent. Regardless of who the stronger opponent is, if there's a swordsman then there's no reason for Zoro to not fight the swordsman.

I legit don't give a shit who of the two is stronger or their power or whatnot, it's just annoying seeing the same stupid arguments over and over, or shitty points constantly made, from either side.

1.bounty (I know that bounty isn’t everything but from the most part it kinda indicates strength)

2. Title- the title of the character most of the time show the hierarchy of the pirates especially strength.

3.do u have prove that of the claim with zoro and sanji opponents I don’t remember sanji fighting some1 on equal or stronger than zoro oppoents

 

[grey matter]

Better question wat feat does ace have that jinbei can’t perform at the same lvl

Ace equaling Aokiji's attack power. I don't see JInbe replicating it
Giving high diff to Blackbeard, while having DF disadvantage. This is the same Blackbeard who Shanks claimed as powerful/dangerous, and who gave Shanks a scar while Shanks admittedly wasn't caught off guard or anything.

Also, mere portrayal of Ace being Jinbe's level when he was a rookie. With Ace having 2-3 years to have significant relative growth.

And again, I haven't seen anything from Jinbe that puts him at YC2 level.
YC3 is more believable

 

[M3J]

1.bounty (I know that bounty isn’t everything but from the most part it kinda indicates strength)

2. Title- the title of the character most of the time show the hierarchy of the pirates especially strength.

3.do u have prove that of the claim with zoro and sanji opponents I don’t remember sanji fighting some1 on equal or stronger than zoro oppoents

1. It doesn't indicate strength as much as it indicates how dangerous the person is. Bon Clay is probably weaker than Daz Bones but still have a higher bounty because his devil fruit ability makes him more dangerous, as he showed in Impel Down.

2. Maybe.

3. Why would you, if you automatically assume Sanji's opponents are weaker and don't consider match-ups?

Cabaji is a swordsman; the Nyaban brothers use bladed claws; Hatchan is a swordsman; Daz Bones can turn his body parts into blade; Ohm has a sword whose blade he can manipulate; Kaku is a swordsman; Pica is a swordsman; Hyouzou is a swordsman; Ryuuma was a swordsman.

Too lazy to do Sanji's, but other than Wanze, I can't remember any single sword or blade user that fought Sanji.

Also, swords cause more ouchies than fists and legs, so of course people would think all of Zoro's opponents are superior to Sanji's.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I remember being told that Sanji would fight Jack or Queen and Zoro wouldn't fight King or would at most low diff King because Zoro 'danced' with Kaido, 'tangoed' with Kaido

I also remember being told that Zoro wouldn't fight anyone after the roof fight and that was end of his fight for the arc. Said by a Sanji fan who is still replying on here.

Both fans are equally bad

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

if I recall correctly the wielders of both keys granting access to the gates of justice. Showing them a equally important to Enis Lobby.

Literally quoted you taking an L, but okay. Since I'm "too dumb" just walk away. Wouldn't want you hurting your big brain trying to figure out your own words

You also provided false information here, so that's an L too btw. The difference is, he was nice enough to not take a dig at you. Just be nice.

 

[Ricko]

About Sanji powerup, not to downside his power (i'm not a Zoro fan or a Sanji hater).
But is Queen actually really that much strong ????

Actually I may think it's possible that he's weaker than Doflamingo, that why it's possible for Sanji to bash him away so easily. And there was not a so much gap between him and previous Sanji opponent.

After all, because of Cracker and Katakuri we had a big hype about YC... But with the recent fight I have really doubt about Kaido's commander power...
Finally Jack is depicted as strong than Perospero, with an amazing stamina, but in feat he didn't do better.
Even Perospero manage Brook and Chopper (not at monster point) better than Queen could.

Queen is a great scientist, a wonderfull punchingball, but for the moment one of the crappiest fighter we have seen.
Relaying only on his laser shot and his dinosaur stamina.

Beside the hype of his rank I have really doubt about Queen. He did show a bit haki feat, but nothing impressive... I will go a bit far... But Vergo was more impressive against Sanji...

 

[I Am Atomic]

Imagine Jack being able to hold up Inu and Neko for 5 days straight, but if Queen and King goes down in 10 mins? I would hate that.

I am hoping the leaks are wrong, and the YC fights last a long time.

Sanji Vs Queen seems like a mismatch, because Sanji is just way too fast. Queen needs to show something that puts him in the YC tier. So far nothing tbh.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

No lol. Those ratings were taken before Kaku even ate a Zoan DF; lmao. So therefore Kaku was stronger even without his fruit.

The measurements are done in base not with DF powers activated
Jyabura immiedatelty pointed out that fighting styles and DF aren’t taken into account when measuring douriki just raw base human ability

 

[Crimson Ice]

Nah I disagree kaido has been more damage than luffy and since he been fighting longer than luffy. I feel like since would be a factor in kaido defeat if luffy fought kaido 1v1 from the jump u would have a point but since he had help plus he been fighting ppl be4 they arrive to rooftop

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2021 ---

It just happens that the 2nd strongest is a swordsman while the 3rd strongest is in a melee fighter lol.

my thing is this it doesn’t matter what people think of the gap between zoro and sanji the FACT is zoro>sanji point blank period. It isn’t he equal or stronger sanji is weaker than zoro

I agree Kaido has been more damaged but Luffy is the only person outside of Yamato that can fight Kaido one on one. Not to mention, most of Kaido's damage comes from Luffy. The sky-splitting is a clear indicator that Luffy is a Yonko level character.