Bam, who was alone all his life has entered the tower to chase after his only friend, Rachel, but how will he survive without having any special strength or power?“What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever...
Lyborick single handedly proved that the Ha family's physical body isn't too big of a standout among the 10 great family. The guy has already shown to be physically tougher than Jinsung when he's a Khun/Po Bidau hybrid.
Lyborick single handedly proved that the Ha family's physical body isn't too big of a standout among the 10 great family. The guy has already shown to be physically tougher than Jinsung when he's a Khun/Po Bidau hybrid.
The series disagrees with you on this
In Tog talent prevails. If you don't have the predisposition then it sucks to be you.
Talent means you can learn faster and with more leeway too.
Kallavan is a bad example because as you say he used EOB (that's cheating) and the Ha are not tanks they are martial artists, their tankiness is a byproduct of that, they are not Hendo lok physical version. a better example would be a random guy who with training becomes better than an Arie/Eurassia of equivalent level on their field
He was not cheating he’s a good example..
kallavan beat him in both tank and martial art... what you talking about?
before EoB HJ stated that kallavan has talent.
after EoB thousand year passed. Kallavan was training his mind and body all that time just to fit EoB potential and then he was outside to put in action and gain more experience.. now this is the results
The strongest guy in the serie right now
No counting FH and kell hellam.
lyb could be from HJ generation. He was pretty strong in genesis times. Maybe kallavan not even born by that time but look they figthing equal rn
Because talent is not enough......
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Kallavan said: TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN TECHNIQUE TO CATCH UP WITH THE FIREPOWER OF THE LIGHTNING SPEAR TECHNIQUE ONLY BECAUSE YOU BEAR THE ELECTRIC ATTRIBUTE. YOU ARE RIGHT. I UNDERESTIMATED YOU.
Yep. SIU spoke about Lightning Spear techniques in general in the main MSLS blog post:
Season 2 Chapter 47 Blog Post
SIU said:
It’s a technique that turns Shinsu into a spear, so it grants the advantage of being able to take the Spear Bearer position without being armed with spears.
(Compared to ordinary shinsoo manipulation techniques, Lightning Spear techniques are much faster and have higher accuracy.)
As it allows one to participate in both short and long-range battles, it is considered to be one of the ‘ultimate spear techniques’.
However, after becoming a Ranker,
it is very difficult to take on the role of a professional Spear Bearer with the Lightening Spear technique alone.
(Because the level of other Spear Bearers become that much higher)
So later on, they're used more as a support role in close-range battles...
On another note, I'm starting to think that SIU was saying that the Lightning Spear technique is considered to be one of the ultimate spear techniques, and not speaking about MSLS in particular.
Kallavan also speaks about general Lightning Spear techniques:
Imitations of Lightning Spear techniques simply do not hold up to the genuine article. They are limited: Season 2 Episode 199 Blog Post
To add to my last week’s exposition, Maschenny-style electric spears can only be used by Maschenny’s children.
[TN: Khun Maschenny, the mother of both Ran and Maschenny Jahad]
There are spells that copy it similarly,
but unlike Ran’s, they don’t have the same effect like the Lightning Pill
Since they’re forcibly mimicked, they got a limit unlike that of Ran’s.
Lyborick's imitation would be no different. Even if he was able to surpass average Lightning Spear Bearers, he still falls well short of the master Spear Bearers.
Kallavan said: TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN TECHNIQUE TO CATCH UP WITH THE FIREPOWER OF THE LIGHTNING SPEAR TECHNIQUE ONLY BECAUSE YOU BEAR THE ELECTRIC ATTRIBUTE. YOU ARE RIGHT. I UNDERESTIMATED YOU.
On another note, I'm starting to think that SIU was saying that the Lightning Spear technique is considered to be one of the ultimate spear techniques, and not speaking about MSLS in particular.
Kallavan also speaks about general Lightning Spear techniques:
Imitations of Lightning Spear techniques simply do not hold up to the genuine article. They are limited: Season 2 Episode 199 Blog Post
Lyborick's imitation would be no different. Even if he was able to surpass average Lightning Spear Bearers, he still falls well short of the master Spear Bearers.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
SIU said that as a martial artist, Jinsung is above Kallavan:
He wasn't even impressed when he saw all the power of kallavan lol
--- Double Post Merged, ---
You guys need to understand that there’s people in all the tops that are not from a 10 GF stronger than them and every position, they has talent too but no like a member of the 10 GF... and they still stronger cause they pretty old and warriors that maybe still training after thousands of years
evenif they more talented people they can’t beat them even in the same position
We had seen that all of time in every chapter lol
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Yas is the first LPB to use mind control but fun fact: he’s not even LPB
But im pretty sure he’s better than most of them in this anyway. Lol
YHS was better anima than the rice ball guy from floor of test and that’s no even his position and he’s not even from a 10 GF, less talent more hard work and discipline.
I think Asensio has to be at least a CC tier fighter.
Kallavan acknowledged Lyborick's strength as being worthy of CC tier after seeing Lyborick's imitation Lightning Spear technique:
However per SIU, the imitations of the Lightning Spear technique are inherently limited: Season 2 Episode 199 Blog Post
To add to my last week’s exposition,
Maschenny-style electric spears can only be used by Maschenny’s children.
[TN: Khun Maschenny, the mother of both Ran and Maschenny Jahad]
There are spells that copy it similarly,
but unlike Ran’s, they don’t have the same effect like the Lightning Pill
Since they’re forcibly mimicked, they got a limit unlike that of Ran’s.
While Lyborick's imitation was able to exceed average Lightning Spear Bearers, it falls short of the true masters of the Spear, the "Spear Masters".
Asensio is one of those elite few:
To be clear, it is very unlikely that there is any class above "Spear Master" as Maschenny Zahard is also one:
(And SIU has not only said that her Spear technique is vastly stronger than the usual High Ranker's Spear Technique, but also that she's the only one who can draw out the full potential of the Maschenny Style Lightning Spear).
I mean SIU outright stated it. He's said that she fights with the Maschenny Style Lightning Spear technique alone.
And you're misunderstanding two key things:
Lightning Spear techniques are NOTactually supposed to be used with physical weapons.
Kallavan pointed this out this chapter, saying that Lyborick was only imitating the Lightning Spear technique by combining his electric shinsu with actual spears.
True Lightning Spear techniques creates spears of pure electric shinsu.
Maschenny is the epitome of a Lightning Spear Bearer.
She alone can draw out the full potential of the Maschenny Style Lightning Spear technique (an "ultimate spear technique").
White doesn't use an ignition weapon. Would an ignition weapon make him stronger? Who knows. Maschenny does though.
And the feline could not dodge, so there's no way to tell whether it was a guided weapon or not.
Lyborick also just threw his spear at Lefav instead of guiding it.
Not really. He used it to provide long-range support for Maschenny when she took on Data Zahard. And it's his signature technique.
He's just able to use it in close and mid-range for one on one battles.
Comparing non Khun Spear Bearers to Khun Spear Bearers is stupid.
That's like comparing Hatsu to Hoaquin.
Lyborick is more skilled than the other throwing type Spear Bearers we've seen so far and that's why he can create a guided spear.
Again, The Spear Master uses a guided spear technique.
It's a mark of proficiency not inferiority.
Lyborick is IMO not super talented:
He states that he climbed to his position through effort.
He's noted to have a feeling of inferiority.
He seems sensitive about his imitation spear technique.
He questioned if Kallavan was saying that he was weaker than natural born Lightning Spear technique users.
His Ranking is mentioned to be low for the position of Corps Commander.
I think Lyborick is a Corps Commander tier version of Cheonhee. Someone who forged their place in the world through sheer effort and not innate talent.
The Lightning Spear technique is not just lightning shinsu. It's a technique for turning electric shinsu into a spear. It's not meant to imbue physical spears with electric shinsu.
Imbuing physical spears with lightning shinsu has explicitly been noted by Kallavan as a cheap imitation of the Lightning Spear technique.
Maschenny probably has access to arbitrarily powerful ignition weapons. But there isn't any indication that such weapons could be effectively combined with her Maschenny Style Lightning Spear technique.
Per Kallavan, true manifestations fo the Lightning Spear technique do not use physical weapons as the base.
How I read the kallavan bit was more along the lines of... Lyborick putting electric shinsoo into a spear contrary to putting an electric spear into it. Mostly assuming that fan translations can be a little iffy or SIU or in story chararacters don't take the whole of the story in context when speaking. I suppose the official translation and then later chapters will clarify on this. Though to me it remains a hard sell that any variety of actual lightning spear attribute couldn't be improved by a sufficiently good weapon or even an ignition weapon. Imagine mascheny going "Mascheny style spear- IGNITION". That's the stuff boners are made out of. I'd even feel robbed if an ignition weapon regardless of how good was a downgrade here. Since, well, we won't get to see mascheny taking full advantage of one of the premier weapons in tog (a hypothetical ignition or compression spear).
White doesn't have a physical weapon but he had that sheath thing. It doesn't appear to be a ignition weapon but if the sheath plays a part in what is presumably white's strongest sword then it should count as a weapon of sorts. Though in a weird way. White even makes the point that using the sword drains him, a point which he didn't make about the other swords.
Nah, the basic context of tog is that talent is predetermined and fixed. The only caveat to that I can think of is picking up a power... which you have to have the capacity to wield to begin with. With hard work all you can do in tog is realize your talent. But you can't climb farther than your talent allows. Same thing applies to cheonhee, she was talented to begin with. Her struggle was not due to a lack in talent, rather with the family not giving her a chance.
Lyborick's name is written as Po Bidao Lyborick Koon. As far as I can tell people usually have their primary family name first in the series. So at least going by the name lyborick is definitely primarily a po bidao.
I don't think the series rules out the possibility of garam being from the 10 families. We just don't know her family name.
Not sure if it was mentioned anywhere, but to me it would be cool if it was a shinheuh with a unique ability that bonds with baam allowing him to become an anima. Given this story arc and nest has heavily to do with the lo po bia I think it is fairly possible outcome.
How I read the kallavan bit was more along the lines of... Lyborick putting electric shinsoo into a spear contrary to putting an electric spear into it. Mostly assuming that fan translations can be a little iffy or SIU or in story chararacters don't take the whole of the story in context when speaking. I suppose the official translation and then later chapters will clarify on this.
That's just wishful thinking. True Lightning Spears are not created with any underlying base weapon.
We have seen only four proper Lightning Spears in the entire series:
#1: Eduan's Giant's Lightning Spear:
#2: Eduan's generic Lightning Spear:
#3: Eduan's Montana Azul:
#4: Maschenny's Tres Cuernos:
Not a single one of them was formed with an underlying physical spear.
That's the entire point of the technique, to be able to act as a Spear Bearer without being armed with a Spear.
Season 2 Chapter 47 Blog Post
SIU said:
The Maschenny-style Lightning Spear technique that Ran uses is a Lightning Style technique invented by Maschenny Jahad, who made an appearance a while ago.
It’s a technique that turns Shinsu into a spear, so it grants the advantage of being able to take the Spear Bearer position without being armed with spears.
(Compared to ordinary shinsoo manipulation techniques, Lightning Spear techniques are much faster and have higher accuracy.)
As it allows one to participate in both short and long-range battles, it is considered to be one of the ‘ultimate spear techniques’.
That's the stuff boners are made out of. I'd even feel robbed if an ignition weapon regardless of how good was a downgrade here. Since, well, we won't get to see mascheny taking full advantage of one of the premier weapons in tog (a hypothetical ignition or compression spear).
Maschenny's entire shtick is being a Spear Master that fulfills her role using only the Lightning Spear technique. Most Ranker Spear Bearers cannot do that:
Season 2 Chapter 47 Blog Post
SIU said:
However, after becoming a Ranker,
it is very difficult to take on the role of a professional Spear Bearer with the Lightening Spear technique alone.
(Because the level of other Spear Bearers become that much higher)
So later on, they're used more as a support role in close-range battles...
In Maschenny Zahard’s case, her lightning Spear technique is faaaaar stronger than a usual High Ranker’s spear technique.
In other words, if you have Maschenny on your team,
it's the same thing as having another High Ranker-level Spear Bearer on your Team.
Of course, the only person who can use the Maschenny-style Lightning Spear technique so proficiently is Maschenny Zahard herself ^^;
White doesn't have a physical weapon but he had that sheath thing. It doesn't appear to be a ignition weapon but if the sheath plays a part in what is presumably white's strongest sword then it should count as a weapon of sorts. Though in a weird way. White even makes the point that using the sword drains him, a point which he didn't make about the other swords.
Lyborick's name is written as Po Bidao Lyborick Koon. As far as I can tell people usually have their primary family name first in the series. So at least going by the name lyborick is definitely primarily a po bidao.
It does. If she was from the ten Families, then her Family name would have been mentioned. If not in canon then in the blog posts when she was revealed.
#2. In the Season 2 Chapter 105 Blog Post, SIU said that there were only around 3 Princesses from the 10 Families and 1 Princess from two Families.
Assuming he was talking only about Rankers, these were:
Eurasia Enne Zahard
Khun Maschenny Zahard
Arie Hagipherione Zahard
Ha Yuri Zahard
Garam Zahard had long since been mentioned in blog posts as a 13 Month Princess, so SIU definitely did not intend to make her from the Great Families.
He was not cheating he’s a good example..
kallavan beat him in both tank and martial art... what you talking about?
before EoB HJ stated that kallavan has talent.
he took an item that artificially increased his strength.
Jingsung is not a tank and Jingsung is said to be better in martial arts than him (in no Kallavan fight he showed any martial arts technique so it's not very complicated)
So a guy who is already considered talented. I remember you saying that training outweighs talent, using a guy:
-basically talented
-who has increased his strength in an unnatural way
- then trained.
I think that's a bad example because before his training there were already two important factors.
after EoB thousand year passed. Kallavan was training his mind and body all that time just to fit EoB potential and then he was outside to put in action and gain more experience.. now this is the results
So he didn't train to get stronger, he trained to master and refine a strength that was already there. If he didn't have that strength in him (talent+EOB) his training could have changed his situation.
Wtf no he isn't, Baam is probably stronger than him already if you just count the characters that have appeared.
Evankhell, Elliot; Cha, Dowon, White, Yama and Yorari are at least around his level.
-If we take the named but not released characters who are stronger than him we have:
Adori, Enne, Luslec, Quadrado (maybe), Ilarde (probably)
-And if we add the characters whose only thing we know is that they exist then there are the strongest LPBs under Traum.
At the moment we only have one line from Evankhell about them but it's enough.
YHS: So lo po bia top figthers could show up here at any moment, you mean?
EVK:That rigth's
EVKS:They wouldn't bother with small fries like us, of course
[Season 3] Ep. 85
lyb could be from HJ generation. He was pretty strong in genesis times. Maybe kallavan not even born by that time but look they figthing equal rn
Because talent is not enough......
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Kallavan said: TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN TECHNIQUE TO CATCH UP WITH THE FIREPOWER OF THE LIGHTNING SPEAR TECHNIQUE ONLY BECAUSE YOU BEAR THE ELECTRIC ATTRIBUTE. YOU ARE RIGHT. I UNDERESTIMATED YOU.
Yeah, so what, this doesn't affect the argument that in the show talent is better than talentless training.
I never said that talent alone is enough. I said that in this series training is not superior to talent. if 2 people are at the same levels then the one with more talent will win.
this supports what i am saying if despite all this millennium he is not able to create a pure electric shinso spear then he sucks as a jeonsulsa. his work allows him to compensate but if he had talent he would not have to do this additional compensatory work.
It's the same thing in sports, taking chess as an example, you can train as much as you want if you have no talent then you will end up stagnating faster than those who do.
You can win matches by using your experience on talented players who have less talent than you or are weaker than you. But if you are at the same level and have similar experience then you will get beaten.
Same thing in TOG, life in Tog sucks and is unfair and it doesn't hide.
Gustang said that Baam's father is the worst person he's met. He may hate him, but being jealous of him doesn't even begin to explain thinking that Baam's father has such poor moral character.
The target of Gustang's jealousy is the love of his life (Blossom).
Yeah, I wasn't actually following the discussion on Gustang. I just felt that if Gustang didn't hate V, he would have said what he said in a better way to avoid confusion considering Baam is V's son.
before EoB HJ stated that kallavan has talent.
after EoB thousand year passed. Kallavan was training his mind and body all that time just to fit EoB potential and then he was outside to put in action and gain more experience.. now this is the results
The strongest guy in the serie right now
No counting FH and kell hellam.
JH also mentioned that Kallavans bloodline played a part in this too.
In Kallavans tribe, the candidates for protecting the EoB fought to death to determine the winner. Over time, the weaker ones died out and the strongest remained.
So while Kallavan worked hard too, he also had a strong bloodline on his side.
Kallavan is a bad example because as you say he used EOB (that's cheating) and the Ha are not tanks they are martial artists, their tankiness is a byproduct of that, they are not Hendo lok physical version. a better example would be a random guy who with training becomes better than an Arie/Eurassia of equivalent level on their field
Kallavan is not a bad example, he is descended from a bloodline of mighty warriors that make up the EoB himself, he may not have the bloodline of the 10 families, but he also falls for your argument. EoB is an item like the god's eye, lecalicus or the white oar: just an item, who wields it matters.
Lyborick single handedly proved that the Ha family's physical body isn't too big of a standout among the 10 great family. The guy has already shown to be physically tougher than Jinsung when he's a Khun/Po Bidau hybrid.
Don't you think it's too early for that? Kallavan didn't take Lyb seriously until he was hit, which was different from HJ, who he always respected. And given his irritating fighting style, it greatly interferes with his performance.
BTW, you can still use the tiredness card too, although I think it sucks.
He was not cheating he’s a good example..
kallavan beat him in both tank and martial art... what you talking about?
before EoB HJ stated that kallavan has talent.
after EoB thousand year passed. Kallavan was training his mind and body all that time just to fit EoB potential and then he was outside to put in action and gain more experience.. now this is the results
The strongest guy in the serie right now
No counting FH and kell hellam.
lyb could be from HJ generation. He was pretty strong in genesis times. Maybe kallavan not even born by that time but look they figthing equal rn
Because talent is not enough......
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Kallavan said: TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN TECHNIQUE TO CATCH UP WITH THE FIREPOWER OF THE LIGHTNING SPEAR TECHNIQUE ONLY BECAUSE YOU BEAR THE ELECTRIC ATTRIBUTE. YOU ARE RIGHT. I UNDERESTIMATED YOU.
Kallavan is not a bad example, he is descended from a bloodline of mighty warriors that make up the EoB himself, he may not have the bloodline of the 10 families, but he also falls for your argument. EoB is an item like the god's eye, lecalicus or the white oar: just an item, who wields it matters.
Idk about classifying EoB as an item! You have to be worthy to use it, it’s more of a power source and should be grouped with the Fangs, Souls, Sweet fish!
Idk about classifying EoB as an item! You have to be worthy to use it, it’s more of a power source and should be grouped with the Fangs, Souls, Sweet fish!
Lyborick single handedly proved that the Ha family's physical body isn't too big of a standout among the 10 great family. The guy has already shown to be physically tougher than Jinsung when he's a Khun/Po Bidau hybrid.
Bro, like jinsung said, the real Ha family real treat is they ar technician, they fight with technic along with their body, but new kids of Ha family keep ignore the technic and make themselves like a sack bag, thus making people thought ha family only good for their hard body
I was wrong, there is nothing special about Ryb he cannot even create his own spears lol! He’s all smoke and mirrors! Kallavan smiled after that uppercut LOL! Like I’ve been saying Ryb uses slight of hand to pull out a weapon and disguises it with weak electric shinsu!
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Mayer is a fool! Candidi knows what’s up! I can see both changing sides!
I was wrong, there is nothing special about Ryb he cannot even create his own spears lol! He’s all smoke and mirrors! Kallavan smiled after that uppercut LOL! Like I’ve been saying Ryb uses slight of hand to pull out a weapon and disguises it with weak electric shinsu!
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