One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[Hannibal Psyche]

End of chapter 1076 with Kid "haha only if I lose" is OP's version of JJK's Nah I'd win. Just nice to slander kid because why not.

 

[electricmastro]

The cross guild has a passable army as far as I can tell but it's rather weak on the executive end (so far). It'd take mihawk taking the lead to pull this off.... Buggy's friendship with oden could have an interesting role here.

Well yeah, Buggy was friends with Oden, Momo, Inu, and Neko back when they all used to sail with Roger. Oden also wrote about a “Buggy-jiro” in his journal, so Yamato would prob give a friendly greeting to him as well.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Remember, knowledge is what keeps Nika Nika no Mi as a DF which the WG don't want, so as long as people with the knowledge are alive, Luffy's DF will exist.

In fact, it seems the races that the WG wanted wiped out had knowledge of Nika/Joyboy... King also had knowledge of Joyboy/Nika which explains why they wanted to kill him at all costs. King being alive meant the DF would continue to exist and be a problem for them.

Where does this come from? I have not seen any of this in my chapter translations.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Where does this come from? I have not seen any of this in my chapter translations.

VP also said DFs come into existence through wishes and desire, so when people wish or desire Nika, his DF will exist which is why they have gone out of their way to:
Kill people with knowledge or have studied the Void Century which suggests they may have information on Nika or information on the Void Century.

King was hunted down as a Lunarian, and it can't be coincidence that he just happens to know about Joyboy/Nika AND is hunted down by the WG for 100m for any information about him.
Kuma was hunted too and Saturn specifically said he had to be killed and have his mind erased for knowledge of Nika to be taken away.
Who's who was hunted the moment he learnt about Nika.
Looks like there's a pattern where knowledge of Nika will get you killed, well not a pattern, pretty much a fact since Saturn said this at God Valley.

Pretty much the WG wants you dead if you know anything about Nika (someone related to the Ancient Kingdom/Void Century) or knowledge of the Void Century. Dr. Clover said any knowledge on Void Century information = death by the WG automatically and we can see this throughout the series.

 

[electricmastro]

VP also said DFs come into existence through wishes and desire, so when people wish or desire Nika, his DF will exist which is why they have gone out of their way to:
Kill people with knowledge or have studied the Void Century which suggests they may have information on Nika or information on the Void Century.

King was hunted down as a Lunarian, and it can't be coincidence that he just happens to know about Joyboy/Nika AND is hunted down by the WG for 100m for any information about him.
Kuma was hunted too and Saturn specifically said he had to be killed and have his mind erased for knowledge of Nika to be taken away.
Who's who was hunted the moment he learnt about Nika.
Looks like there's a pattern where knowledge of Nika will get you killed, well not a pattern, pretty much a fact since Saturn said this at God Valley.

Pretty much the WG wants you dead if you know anything about Nika (someone related to the Ancient Kingdom/Void Century) or knowledge of the Void Century. Dr. Clover said any knowledge on Void Century information = death by the WG automatically and we can see this throughout the series.

We’re prob going to get to know the various people the Elders have victimized because they knew about Nika, if Egghead is meant to be an indicator.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

VP also said DFs come into existence through wishes and desire, so when people wish or desire Nika, his DF will exist which is why they have gone out of their way to:
Kill people with knowledge or have studied the Void Century which suggests they may have information on Nika or information on the Void Century.

King was hunted down as a Lunarian, and it can't be coincidence that he just happens to know about Joyboy/Nika AND is hunted down by the WG for 100m for any information about him.
Kuma was hunted too and Saturn specifically said he had to be killed and have his mind erased for knowledge of Nika to be taken away.
Who's who was hunted the moment he learnt about Nika.
Looks like there's a pattern where knowledge of Nika will get you killed, well not a pattern, pretty much a fact since Saturn said this at God Valley.

Pretty much the WG wants you dead if you know anything about Nika (someone related to the Ancient Kingdom/Void Century) or knowledge of the Void Century. Dr. Clover said any knowledge on Void Century information = death by the WG automatically and we can see this throughout the series.

I agree on the end result which is WG hunts down anyone with knowledge of Void Century/Nika. But I do question using the DF explanation VP gave as one of the reasons for hunting down people with knowledge of Nika. I think it's a bit too circular since for them to hunt down anyone with knowledge of Nika they themselves have to know about Nika's existence which would make it impossible to get rid of all knowledge of Nika. I personally think they want those people dead purely for the connection to the Void Century vs having anything to do with erasing the DFs existence/breaking the reincarnation cycle itself.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I agree on the end result which is WG hunts down anyone with knowledge of Void Century/Nika. But I do question using the DF explanation VP gave as one of the reasons for hunting down people with knowledge of Nika. I think it's a bit too circular since for them to hunt down anyone with knowledge of Nika they themselves have to know about Nika's existence which would make it impossible to get rid of all knowledge of Nika. I personally think they want those people dead purely for the connection to the Void Century vs having anything to do with erasing the DFs existence/breaking the reincarnation cycle itself.

Not just knowledge, wishing for Nika.
Saturn explicitly states this at God Valley (1096) to Kuma:

• Kuma says he wants to become like Nika and save slaves.
• Saturn states this is exactly why your race (Bucaneer) was wiped.

I think it goes beyond just a mere connection.

As VP said, wishing is what makes a DF come into existence, so it makes sense that people who are mostly slaves wishing for a saviour to save them (and a god who does this specifically is called Nika) are dangerous to the WG.
This was explicitly mentioned in Who's who's past. He was told the story of Nika, and the slave got killed instantly, and even decades later, the moment the WG got a chance to kill him, he was one of the objectives of CP0 which to me consolidates the idea.

Who's who didn't know much about Nika, just the name. He knew nothing of the Void Century, yet they wanted him dead at all costs. Kuma probablty also doesn't know about the Void Century, just Nika, and they wanted him dead at all costs. People may not even associate Nika with the Void Century, so I think it's beyond just superficially having knowledge, it's the knowledge has implications on their reign in power.

The Void Century holds a ton of information, and Nika is one of them. We also know they kill people for even mentioning the name of the Ancient Kingdom. There are so many things associated with the Ancient KIngdom/Void Century they need to keep under wraps. The D. initial, the Ancient KIngdom's name, Nika, etc.

Looks like knowledge has a lot of power in the world of OP, we know it influences the DF Nika, and also, we can just assume the truth in itself is a power, truth would relinquish the world's trust in the WG.
Ancient Kingdom had technology that could power the entire world and stop wars... people are fighting to gain control of oil and fuels in the real world and this is similar in One Piece. A sustainable source of energy that the world can use? The WG couldn't let the world know they're hiding such discoveries that would make their lives easier, end wars, end famine.. people would have no reason to rely on them and the RA would become more powerful.
OR, even the fact Imu exists, the world thinks its a democracy when in reality, it isn't, there's only 1 true ruler, and this is knowledge that must not go out.

This would be akin to knowing your government has a cure to cancer and all other fatal diseases, keeps it secret, and then one day, someone leaks all this information. If you trusted in your government prior to this, you sure as hell won't after that.

I'd say this is a case where knowledge is indeed power in the most literal sense of the meaning.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

VP also said DFs come into existence through wishes and desire, so when people wish or desire Nika, his DF will exist

VP said that Devil Fruits were listed in the Ancient Encyclopedia from 800 years ago by an Ancient Kingdom with advanced technology, and that his theory was that these DF creations were the dreams and wills of people from the past that wanted to evolve their lineage factors in a certain way. DFs are basically Dream Fruits created by and with AK technology to fulfill the dreams of people that lived at least 800 years ago. We cannot conclude from that that they would disappear if nobody in current timeline would dream to evolve in a similar way that the 800 years ago first users.

Jumping on another topic, an interesting stuff said by VP is that he had no clue about Saturn’s DF in the Ancient Encyclopedia meaning it was a DF created after Void Century so probably with the National Treasure of Marigeoise which should be AK technology. There is no way that AK friends would dream and create Saturn’s DF. This DF seems like pure Tenryubito evil dream.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Not just knowledge, wishing for Nika.
Saturn explicitly states this at God Valley (1096) to Kuma:

• Kuma says he wants to become like Nika and save slaves.
• Saturn states this is exactly why your race (Bucaneer) was wiped.

I think it goes beyond just a mere connection.

As VP said, wishing is what makes a DF come into existence, so it makes sense that people who are mostly slaves wishing for a saviour to save them (and a god who does this specifically is called Nika) are dangerous to the WG.
This was explicitly mentioned in Who's who's past. He was told the story of Nika, and the slave got killed instantly, and even decades later, the moment the WG got a chance to kill him, he was one of the objectives of CP0 which to me consolidates the idea.

Who's who didn't know much about Nika, just the name. He knew nothing of the Void Century, yet they wanted him dead at all costs. Kuma probablty also doesn't know about the Void Century, just Nika, and they wanted him dead at all costs. People may not even associate Nika with the Void Century, so I think it's beyond just superficially having knowledge, it's the knowledge has implications on their reign in power.

The Void Century holds a ton of information, and Nika is one of them. We also know they kill people for even mentioning the name of the Ancient Kingdom. There are so many things associated with the Ancient KIngdom/Void Century they need to keep under wraps. The D. initial, the Ancient KIngdom's name, Nika, etc.

Looks like knowledge has a lot of power in the world of OP, we know it influences the DF Nika, and also, we can just assume the truth in itself is a power, truth would relinquish the world's trust in the WG.
Ancient Kingdom had technology that could power the entire world and stop wars... people are fighting to gain control of oil and fuels in the real world and this is similar in One Piece. A sustainable source of energy that the world can use? The WG couldn't let the world know they're hiding such discoveries that would make their lives easier, end wars, end famine.. people would have no reason to rely on them and the RA would become more powerful.
OR, even the fact Imu exists, the world thinks its a democracy when in reality, it isn't, there's only 1 true ruler, and this is knowledge that must not go out.

This would be akin to knowing your government has a cure to cancer and all other fatal diseases, keeps it secret, and then one day, someone leaks all this information. If you trusted in your government prior to this, you sure as hell won't after that.

I'd say this is a case where knowledge is indeed power in the most literal sense of the meaning.

I guess I'm just not fully sold on the premise that the DFs exist solely from being wished/desired for but if that turns out to be the case this does make sense. At the moment I don't know if Oda meant for VPs info to be the author speaking through a character to inform the reader or just a character describing their in universe hypothesis that still requires confirming. I just can't shake the feeling that something more is required for DFs to have first come into existence beyond just human desire/wishing.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

VP said that Devil Fruits were listed in the Ancient Encyclopedia from 800 years ago by an Ancient Kingdom with advanced technology

This is incorrect, he never said ANCIENT encyclopaedia, as in not in a book written by the Ancient Kingdom nor did he say from 800 years ago.

The DF Encyclopaedia was written by the WG which is why they could alter the name of the Nika Nika no Mi to Gomu Gomu, so people wouldn't have sought after it, and even more, known of the concept of a God that saves slaves, Nika.

and that his theory was that these DF creations were the dreams and wills of people from the past that wanted to evolve their lineage factors in a certain way.

Not sure where you're quoting from, but:
He never said it was a theory, he's stating it's a fact. What he said was whether people want to theorise the existence of god doesn't matter, what matters is gods do exist because the SHs don't believe Luffy's DF is based on a god, or that Luffy is a god.

Also, there's absolutely nothing about people wanting to evolve lineage factors, that's completely unrelated. Not sure exactly what you're sourcing to make these claims.

DFs are basically Dream Fruits created by and with AK technology to fulfill the dreams of people that lived at least 800 years ago.

Again, this isn't stated, this is YOUR theory or you've read something wrong along the line.

Vegapunk never mentioned ANY technology, he said this comes from the desire of people and mentioned nothing about any technology that made this possible.

We cannot conclude from that that they would disappear if nobody in current timeline would dream to evolve in a similar way that the 800 years ago first users.

Completely disagree, it's the only thing that explains why knowledge of Nika is something the WG do not want people to have. If DFs come from desire, it makes complete sense to stop people from desiring Nika, a god who is known to save slaves.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2024, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2024 ---

I guess I'm just not fully sold on the premise that the DFs exist solely from being wished/desired

Each to their own.

For me, the Manga said it explicitly, so I see no reason why not to accept it. Do I like the idea? Doesn't really matter to me, but for me, it is what it is.

I just can't shake the feeling that something more is required for DFs to have first come into existence beyond just human desire/wishing.

VP literally said because these fruits are not natural, the sea which is the mother of life and nature, or something along those lines punishes DF users by sinking them down into the sea. All makes sense to me at least.
One Piece is a world of magic after all. May not be Fairy Tail, but for sure, it's a world of magic.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Each to their own.

For me, the Manga said it explicitly, so I see no reason why not to accept it. Do I like the idea? Doesn't really matter to me, but for me, it is what it is.

Yep that's definitely a fair take. I think the part that made me struggle is at the very time we get this explanation from VP, this arc is also the source of a more more scientific understanding of DFs e.g. extracting lineage factors, green blood, Saturn's experiment to give fruit without eating the fruit etc. To me this science part of things makes the magical wish explanation feel lacking.

VP literally said because these fruits are not natural, the sea which is the mother of life and nature, or something along those lines punishes DF users by sinking them down into the sea. All makes sense to me at least.
One Piece is a world of magic after all. May not be Fairy Tail, but for sure, it's a world of magic.

I do agree there is magic in the OP world. No doubt about it. As for the DF being unnatural and sea rejecting them, I do hope we get more elaboration in the future but I can accept it as face value if it's never brought up again.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2024, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2024 ---

On a completely separate topic did anyone else know that Boichi had done the Nami v Kalifa fight? This fight with his art is pretty much just ****** which killed the vibe for me but hoping if people know if he's done some other fights like Luffy v Lucci?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Crocodile had 0 ambition by hiding himself and let others doing the job.
You can't say that conquering the world with ancient weapon show courage and faith in your ability...
No it's just show that you are a weak looser that need big gun to beat your opponent...

If Haki was all about and only skill to train how explain that Luffy with only two years training can beat veterans who spend their entire life using Haki...
I'm waiting a explanation...

Crocodile had 0 ambition?
Someone who spent almost 20 years on a plan... lacks ambition?
Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos.... many multi-millionaires and billionaires started from nothing and continued to do things for decades until they became successful.
Yet, you say Crocodile who planned Baroque works and planned to acquire Pluton was a plan he was trying to achieve continuously for 20 years... no ambition?
He also never hid himself btw.

How many people do you know that can even stick to a plan or goal for 2months?
People make new years resolutions every year to go to the gym.. they go for maybe 2 weeks or a month and give up... but the person who has created a plan and stuck to it for 20 years... ZERO ambition? no willpower? NO self-belief?
Makes no sense. Anyone who can stick to a plan for decades is the definition of willpower.
Someone who plans to conquer the world, and actually tries? Lacks willpower?

Moriah has no ambition? This man planned to acquire shadows for about 10 years, stuck to his plan, kept building upon his plan... aimed to be Pirate King with this plan... no ambition?

People who stick to a plan for 10+ years to become the greatest in the world... are defined as people who lack ambition? resolve? strength of mind? That's not logical at all.
Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, all these entrepreneurs or comedians who believed in themselves for decades before they became famous, or singers who believed in themselves for decades before they became famous... or athletes who dedicated their lives to a sport in hopes they'll become professionals and trained relentlessly over 10 years non-stop? I guess we can say these people lack ambition or willpower.
Apparently, sticking to a plan you came up with to achieve a goal that would take years... isn't proof of willpower.

Next person you meet that tells you they had a plan, adhered to it for just 15 years.... we can just conclude they lack willpower.

And why does conquering the world with an Ancient Weapon not show courage in one's ability? Then I guess Luffy saying he needs nakama and friends to do things he can't do means he lacks faith in himself?
That makes no sense, he's just being realistic. Smart people do what they're capable of, and delegate what they can't do to people better equiped.
Nonetheless, the idea that someone can have a plan and stick to it for almost 20 years... and then be said to lack ambition is wild.

I am not sure what it is, maybe you've mistaken WILLPOWE with SUCCESS. You can have willpower and be successful, but the lack of success is not what defines whether someone was weak-willed or strong-willed.
If anything, people who fail and continue to try... those are the most strong-willed people. Crocodile was defeated, and rather than giving up, he came up with a new plan.... same as Moriah. So, I am not sure how exactly you're defining will power.

 

[electricmastro]

I still find it interesting Oda didn’t even wait for Vivi to be reunited for Luffy to tell her about his dream. Instead, Yamato knows, while Vivi doesn’t.

 

[RaisinRisin]

I still find it interesting Oda didn’t even wait for Vivi to be reunited for Luffy to tell her about his dream. Instead, Yamato knows, while Vivi doesn’t.

Interesting possible hint. In terms of character development, it makes more sense if Vivi only joins the SHes temporarily and not permanently, so she can return to be ruler of her country. She has reason to be in hiding for now and can be covered for temporarily, but her people are going to need her more than ever soon. Vivi has been shown to be politically astute and willing to take on the responsibility of leading a people. How much a role she plays among the SHes will be decided by what it means for Vivi to have the mystery initial in her name, I guess.

btw has Luffy ever gone into G5 where someone with a D in their name could hear his heartbeat? I can't think of a time that's definitely happened-- maybe Nika's heart rhythm will trigger memories and/or knowledge from the void century? I'll be watching for this. (If so, it would be fascinating if Garp survives long enough to hear it, and to see the reaction of any other currently active Marines if any more of them are revealed to have that initial. Blackbeard, too.)

It would be kinda odd if Yamato doesn't at least temporarily join. All that insistent build up about Yamato joining, and the fact Momo, Yamato, and Kin'emon were explicitly called nakama at the same time-- but only Yamato has never travelled with them-- have to mean something.

 

[electricmastro]

Interesting possible hint. In terms of character development, it makes more sense if Vivi only joins the SHes temporarily and not permanently, so she can return to be ruler of her country. She has reason to be in hiding for now and can be covered for temporarily, but her people are going to need her more than ever soon. Vivi has been shown to be politically astute and willing to take on the responsibility of leading a people. How much a role she plays among the SHes will be decided by what it means for Vivi to have the mystery initial in her name, I guess.

btw has Luffy ever gone into G5 where someone with a D in their name could hear his heartbeat? I can't think of a time that's definitely happened-- maybe Nika's heart rhythm will trigger memories and/or knowledge from the void century? I'll be watching for this. (If so, it would be fascinating if Garp survives long enough to hear it, and to see the reaction of any other currently active Marines if any more of them are revealed to have that initial. Blackbeard, too.)

It would be kinda odd if Yamato doesn't at least temporarily join. All that insistent build up about Yamato joining, and the fact Momo, Yamato, and Kin'emon were explicitly called nakama at the same time-- but only Yamato has never travelled with them-- have to mean something.

I think Vivi would have more tangible purpose to sail now, which may be finding out her Will of D. legacy and the truth behind her ancestor Lily after her dad got murdered.

That's def more tangible than Yamato's initial ambition, which was just to be free at sea and prob party and drink like how Oden did.

I wouldn't doubt that's why Yamato is in Wano right now actually, to gain tangible purpose, that's just not drinking and partying at sea.

Yamato sailing just to be free to drink and party would have been a step below Jinbe's dream to eliminate war and slavery between fish-men and humans too, so regardless of Momo's situation, if Yamato is going to leave and join the Straw Hats, then she'd better have compelling and tangible justification to do so.

 

[RaisinRisin]

I think Vivi would have more tangible purpose to sail now, which may be finding out her Will of D. legacy and the truth behind her ancestor Lily after her dad got murdered.

That's def more tangible than Yamato's initial ambition, which was just to be free at sea and prob party and drink like how Oden did.

I wouldn't doubt that's why Yamato is in Wano right now actually, to gain tangible purpose, that's just not drinking and partying at sea.

Yamato sailing just to be free to drink and party would have been a step below Jinbe's dream to eliminate war and slavery between fish-men and humans too, so regardless of Momo's situation, if Yamato is going to leave and join the Straw Hats, then she'd better have compelling and tangible justification to do so.

Right now, absolutely. Speaking for myself, I'm looking forward to seeing Vivi's reunion with everyone and could even be part of whatever happens at Elbaf. She's definitely meeting up with the SHes and it'll be a shame if she doesn't have at least one more adventure with them before hiding amongst her people or training with the Revolutionaries or something. The strongest argument she'll stay for a while though is probably that until the Gorousei and Holy Knights go down, the only other safe place for her besides the Sunny would be with the Revolutionaries. If defeating the WG is the last thing we see in the story then she could potentially stay with them until then. If Laugh Tale is last, she might leave sooner.

If I'm not mistaken, Yamato wanted to explore Wano beyond Onigashima, for now. I take that to mean more formally adopting the country as home and being adopted by it in return as a real Wano citizen and embodying the "spirit" of Oden that Oden himself predicted would remain (though I can't imagine this was what he meant, lol). The Okuchi no Makami mythical zoan is said to be a guardian deity of Wano so that connection should be a strong one, after all. Once the "borders" of Wano are opened though, Yamato and probably Momo should join at least temporarily, in the interests of Wano as well as for themselves.

Besides wanting to be Oden, Yamato expressed the specific desire to see the world after being locked up so many years. Who better to do that with than the Straw Hats? It'd be especially fitting to have "Oden" there when they go to Laugh Tale. (Or at least Momo.) Personally I can't help thinking that they're going to have to retrace some of their journey like the Roger Pirates did, which would be a good time for Yamato to be aboard.

 

[electricmastro]

Right now, absolutely. Speaking for myself, I'm looking forward to seeing Vivi's reunion with everyone and could even be part of whatever happens at Elbaf. She's definitely meeting up with the SHes and it'll be a shame if she doesn't have at least one more adventure with them before hiding amongst her people or training with the Revolutionaries or something. The strongest argument she'll stay for a while though is probably that until the Gorousei and Holy Knights go down, the only other safe place for her besides the Sunny would be with the Revolutionaries. If defeating the WG is the last thing we see in the story then she could potentially stay with them until then. If Laugh Tale is last, she might leave sooner.

If I'm not mistaken, Yamato wanted to explore Wano beyond Onigashima, for now. I take that to mean more formally adopting the country as home and being adopted by it in return as a real Wano citizen and embodying the "spirit" of Oden that Oden himself predicted would remain (though I can't imagine this was what he meant, lol). The Okuchi no Makami mythical zoan is said to be a guardian deity of Wano so that connection should be a strong one, after all. Once the "borders" of Wano are opened though, Yamato and probably Momo should join at least temporarily, in the interests of Wano as well as for themselves.

Besides wanting to be Oden, Yamato expressed the specific desire to see the world after being locked up so many years. Who better to do that with than the Straw Hats? It'd be especially fitting to have "Oden" there when they go to Laugh Tale. (Or at least Momo.) Personally I can't help thinking that they're going to have to retrace some of their journey like the Roger Pirates did, which would be a good time for Yamato to be aboard.

I think the moment Sabo finishes explaining his side to the story of Cobra's murder will prob be the moment of truth as to what Vivi decides to do next, whether she wants to back to Alabasta to help her people or go to Laugh Tale to find answers.

And yeah, I don't doubt Oda is doing this so as to make Wano feel more sentimental by the time Yamato leaves, harkening back to when people like Sanji and Franky cried when they left their homes. So I could see Yamato going through some problems and anxieties of her own that Momo and the others could help out with, like how Zeff and the Franky Family helped out Sanji and Franky, making Yamato more into a Wano representative like how Oden was on Roger's ship.

I also figure Yamato would go to Laugh Tale specifically to find answers behind the borders and Joy Boy, after Momo questioned why he should open the borders after realizing that info had been ripped out of the journal. So that could be a compelling justification for Yamato to leave and I'm sure Momo would think so to. He could even fight her to prove himself as Wano defender while she's away.

 

[Erinyes]

That might affect One Piece spoilers too, I think. At least for raws, according to Pew

 

[Vanshrimp]

That might affect One Piece spoilers too, I think. At least for raws, according to Pew

A store decides to go on sale before date, tourists decide to take pictures, publish them and now wide investigation is being conducted....isn't this the chain of events that will shake the world, the Narrator has been talking about ?

 

[HereNThere]

I guess we were overdue for a crackdown. We'll probably end up going back to Friday releases after everything cools down.