Fantasy All 4 Yonko's Vs World Government

[M3J]

I don't see the Gorosei being that strong, otherwise they could have done something to stop Roger, no?

 

[kkck]

I'm curious if Oda will ever reveal how the Revolutionaries tie into the balance of power. We already know Yonkou vs. Yonkou vs. Yonkou vs. Yonkou >= MHQ + 7 SB. I doubt the WG ever considered the possibility of something like the Revolutionaries allying themselves with a Yonkou (e.g. Shanks), but this is what makes someone like Luffy so dangerous--he has ties to the Yonkou and the Revolutionaries. If the Revolutionaries were to receive assistance from just 1 Yonkou fleet, and vice-versa, how would the balance of power change? Now that is something I'd like to see Oda highlight one of these days.


Each Gorosei could be "top-tier", but stronger than an Admiral? Unlikely because of their advanced age, as well as Admirals being the "strongest". The important thing to keep in mind though when comparing the Yonkou to the World Government is the total military power each side has. The WG, with assistance from the Shichibukai, can easily defeat the forces of 1 Yonkou fleet, maybe 2 if under better circumstances (e.g. what would happen if Fujitora and Ryokugya were present at the Marineford War + all 7 Shichibukai?). Still, the WG lacks the manpower to take on all 4 Yonkou fleets themselves, and this isn't factoring in the constant infighting that goes on between the Yonkou fleets.

Seeing the manga it does not seem like revolutionaries are a factor in the balance of power. The world government is made out of nations. Out of whom their sum does not yet seem to be a factor in the total power of the world government. The world government's power seems to rely on two things which seem to work independently from the nations it is made out of. First the marines, which are independent from individual nations. It does not seem like loosing or gaining a nation would actually affect the marines. Then you have whatever secrets the world government is hiding. The history of the world, weapons... If loosing a nation does not affect either the secrets or the marines in general then its unlikely that the revolutionaries are a factor at all here. The world government is made out of hundreds of nations, the revolutionaries would have to free a pretty big number of nations for the world government to feel it.

 

[Holt]

Well the biggest issue is that we aren't exactly aware of how powerful the revolutionaries are combat wise. Sure they're dangerous in political terms and the fact that they are getting nations on their side but we're not exactly clear on how they'd fare in battle. We know of Ivankov, Inazuma and Kuma being revolutionaries at some point but at the marineford war, Akaiu seemed perfectly capable of handling such caliber of opponents and more at the same time. Now we have Sabo who is apparently close to admiral level but we're not exactly clear on that. Dragon's strength is unknown.

 

[M3J]

We can assume they're strong enough to risk their lives into overhauling kingdoms and earning the ire of government, though. They'd definitely make a difference in a war.

 

[kkck]

Well the biggest issue is that we aren't exactly aware of how powerful the revolutionaries are combat wise. Sure they're dangerous in political terms and the fact that they are getting nations on their side but we're not exactly clear on how they'd fare in battle. We know of Ivankov, Inazuma and Kuma being revolutionaries at some point but at the marineford war, Akaiu seemed perfectly capable of handling such caliber of opponents and more at the same time. Now we have Sabo who is apparently close to admiral level but we're not exactly clear on that. Dragon's strength is unknown.

Well, inazuma and ivankov would be just two members... Ivankov ultimately seemed to be capable of fighting people like kuma which speaks volumes of his strength and perhaps implies the government underestimated him when he was sent to level 5. It wouldn't be weird if inazuma was comparable overall, ivankov spoke quite highly of him.

Anyways, that does not seem to necessarily change the idea that the revolutionaries, because of how they operate, might not be a factor in the balance of power mentioned earlier. The yonko operate in the underground across multiple islands. They are not actual governments, at least not normally, they are dangerous criminals with a lot of influence. Odds are every nation under their territory has its own independent government which would usually be affiliated to the world government itself. Basically a situation like fishman island would be pretty much the norm. The yonko operate under the radar.

The revolutionaries seem to operate in a different manner. As far as we have seen they fight in nations against the local government so as to liberate it from the world government. On one hand the implication is that they would be fighting local authorities which as the manga has shown are not overwhelmingly competent. Most islands have shown remarkably weak militaries and at most but a few warriors worth mentioning. And even those are mostly a recent development. Take fishman island... They were taken over by the new fishman pirates, all of whom were collectively and individually weak. Then dressrosa only produced kyros who seems pretty strong but obviously not top of the world strong. So the revolutionaries probably have strong militias that are able to fight multiple wars across multiple countries otherwise liberating them would be out of question. It wouldn't be weird if their role wasn't more along the lines of supporting local forces though. Anyways, such a thing wouldn't necessarily require them to have a huge number of strong people. Even the yonko would be enemies to them only occasionally, when their interests clash.

 

[Shasha23]

Moderator Notice:
Please keep the discussion civil, no name calling.

Concerning the military as a force here's what the wikia says:

Unfortunately among the three powers there is no mention of The Military similar to what we have in our world and it shouldn't be. The world of One Piece is mostly constituted of islands, so the Marines play the role of the military since they are forced to intervene on each island. It would make little sense to have a terrestrial force like the military, and on each island affiliated to the WG it's not rare to find a Marines HQ. The Marines are the main military force in the manga, end of discussion.
The military draft was held by the Marines who are responsible of military operations. If you're still confused about that then I suggest rereading the manga or the SBS, or the wikia. ~ ladylola

I was reading the whole Dressrosa arc again and Fujitora on multiple occasions implies that he is new to the marines when he was talking to Maynard and Doffy, meaning there actually is a separate military force other than the navy,proving my point that the WG has many admiral class fighters who are not part of the marines making my above points valid.
Fujitora implies he is new to the marines and was appointed as admiral from the world military draft, he even sometimes says he makes clumsy decisions because he is new to the marines and apologizes for them, proving the point that the might of the WG is far superior to any other joint force in the world.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The 4 Yonko would obliterate the WG based on this...

During the Sabaody arc, we know that the Whitebeard Pirates were going to wage war against the WG.

Spoiler: Chapter 501

With war on the horizon, Rayleigh is spotted and this is reported to Garp; at this point in time, not many people know who Rayleigh really is.

Spoiler: Rayleigh spotted

Garp then tells the rank reporting to him that the WG cannot handle 2 Legends at once; Whitebeard Pirates + Rayleigh in other words.

Spoiler

If the WG cannot handle 2 Legends at once, there's no way they can take on the 4 Yonko. It seems part of the saving grace attributed to the WG is that Yonko do not ally with each other and hate each other as they're contending with each other; the WG can only handle 1 Yonko crew at a time it seems.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Thank You. This explanation clears all doubts.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I was reading the whole Dressrosa arc again and Fujitora on multiple occasions implies that he is new to the marines when he was talking to Maynard and Doffy, meaning there actually is a separate military force other than the navy,proving my point that the WG has many admiral class fighters who are not part of the marines making my above points valid.
Fujitora implies he is new to the marines and was appointed as admiral from the world military draft, he even sometimes says he makes clumsy decisions because he is new to the marines and apologizes for them, proving the point that the might of the WG is far superior to any other joint force in the world.

Moderator Notice:
Like I said the Navy ARE the military force.The Japanese have a weird way to referring to it. Since this is a naval themed manga, it makes sense that the Marines are the main military force.
Actually Navy and Marines aren't exactly the same thing.In Japanese it's called Kaigun which when translated should be Navy.The Marines in the US aren't exactly the Navy, they can take actions on land, sea and air. So they're not just a naval force. That is why if you look at it the Marines fits more than Navy, since we see them take actions on land in the manga.
This is one of the subtleties of the translation, and depending on the context it can change from a country to another.

Besides the discussion shouldn't be focused on one point, so moving on to something else.~ ladylola

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

To be fair.....Legend does not specifically refer to yonko, and both whitebeard and reyleigh should be well above (well not far but at least a good bit) the other yonko's., and lets not underestimate the warlords, moriah collected enough shadows to face kaidoh, doflamongo should be around admiral level, mihawk is well, the worlds best swordsman, that should include issho, putting him at or above admiral level, the new warlord WBjr seems to be a monster too, Kong was promoted from Fleet admiral, meaning he is a fighter, and probably VERY powerful himself, there is also the gorosei, and not to mention the science depaartmrnt which has some very powerful weapons, the cyborg army and Kuma
Also, i have a theory that since ceasar worked under vegapunk, and in OP, authority is usaully paralell with fighting strength, that vegapunk himself could be a powerful fighter, if he doesnt have some kind of iron man suit ofc

the WG is simply too massive, and the fact that they drafted not one....but 2 strong fighters from a "world military draft" suggesting another fighting force with many powerful fighters (presumably the guys that keep 'the most wanted man alive' busy )

last of all we have the cipher pol. moe of an under cover "black ops" type group, which work undercover and underground.

---------- Post added at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------


i forgot to mention that there are ALOT of vice admirals and MANY fleets. And....that not everything garp says should be taken as fact or evidence, he does serve as comic relief for navy HQ after all.

 

[I Am Atomic]

To be fair.....Legend does not specifically refer to yonko, and both whitebeard and reyleigh should be well above (well not far but at least a good bit) the other yonko's., and lets not underestimate the warlords, moriah collected enough shadows to face kaidoh, doflamongo should be around admiral level, mihawk is well, the worlds best swordsman, that should include issho, putting him at or above admiral level, the new warlord WBjr seems to be a monster too, Kong was promoted from Fleet admiral, meaning he is a fighter, and probably VERY powerful himself, there is also the gorosei, and not to mention the science depaartmrnt which has some very powerful weapons, the cyborg army and Kuma
Also, i have a theory that since ceasar worked under vegapunk, and in OP, authority is usaully paralell with fighting strength, that vegapunk himself could be a powerful fighter, if he doesnt have some kind of iron man suit ofc

the WG is simply too massive, and the fact that they drafted not one....but 2 strong fighters from a "world military draft" suggesting another fighting force with many powerful fighters (presumably the guys that keep 'the most wanted man alive' busy )

last of all we have the cipher pol. moe of an under cover "black ops" type group, which work undercover and underground.

---------- Post added at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------


i forgot to mention that there are ALOT of vice admirals and MANY fleets. And....that not everything garp says should be taken as fact or evidence, he does serve as comic relief for navy HQ after all.

Wow. So you are telling us to simply ignore the actual fact? So if i go by your understanding then Luffy's father is not Monkey D Dragon right? Garp in the Marineford war was also for comic relief right?

So when Oda actually tells us that Navy can't handle 2 legends you are saying that don't take it seriously? If Garp says so then it's 100% right because he was the only one in the Marine who could go head on with Roger. His understanding of power levels of Rayleigh and WB are spot on.

 

[Shasha23]

Moderator Notice:
Like I said the Navy ARE the military force.The Japanese have a weird way to referring to it. Since this is a naval themed manga, it makes sense that the Marines are the main military force.
Actually Navy and Marines aren't exactly the same thing.In Japanese it's called Kaigun which when translated should be Navy.The Marines in the US aren't exactly the Navy, they can take actions on land, sea and air. So they're not just a naval force. That is why if you look at it the Marines fits more than Navy, since we see them take actions on land in the manga.
This is one of the subtleties of the translation, and depending on the context it can change from a country to another.

Besides the discussion shouldn't be focused on one point, so moving on to something else.~ ladylola

So are you saying Fujitora was wrong when he said he had just joined the marines?
What your saying totally contradicts what Fujitora has said, your completely wrong here. Sorry but I can't just accept incorrect statements and move on

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

So are you saying Fujitora was wrong when he said he had just joined the marines?
What your saying totally contradicts what Fujitora has said, your completely wrong here. Sorry but I can't just accept incorrect statements and move on

Here's what Fujitora and DD say:

This is from the better translation provided by Powermanga. Fujitora was recruited during the "World conscription". He only joined the Marines recently.And that's it.
Nothing indicates he was part of some other units in before, and it doesn't matter. We already came to the conclusion that the main military force in the OP world is the Marines, who are working under the WG. They along the CP units, and the Shichibukai are the forces that work for the WG.

Also why would the Marines use the term "military" ? Unless they're just that. In the end Fujitora is now part of the Marines, not the military.He was recruited by the Marines. So what could have happened is that after the War, the Marines had lost quite a few of their forces, so they had to replace them. That's why the draft was held. For all we know Fujitora could have been a civilian.
It is not a false statement, I just posted the damn pics. You should reread the whole arc, because nowhere is it stated that Fujitora was part of a fictional military unit before he joined the Marines.Your whole theory is based on a bunch of words that can even be translated into something else. Can you show me in the manga where Issho said he was part of the military? You can't because there simply is nothing like that.
You can continue to delude yourself into thinking he did, but this is really offtopic anyway, so I simply don't see why we should focus on that.
This is my last statement on the subject.And who cares if I'm right or wrong about this? Certainly not me.
If you need that kind of validation from discussing stuff online, then there is something lacking in your life, maybe you should try finding some hobby.

 

[kkck]

To add to that, the decisive factor here should be that there is no credible evidenced anywhere in the manga that the world government has another force equivalent in might to the marines in their service. All of the evidence of such a thing so far is at best a mistranslated considering the fujitora bit. Also worth noting, the navy in OP has never been restricted to naval affairs. All of them work either at sea or land according to their needs. Which makes sense considering we are talking about a world structured around islands in an ocean. The word "marine" is extremely appropriate for the marines in that regard. The marines act as enforcers of peace whether it is on land or the ocean, there we have yet to see another military unit take over land actions. Fujitora was drafted to the marines, he wasn't transferred from somewhere else. Of course, there are local militaries which adjust to the culture and needs of each country but even that does not really fit into some alternate force to the marines, specially considering how weak they seem in general. The strongest person we have seen in a local military so far seems to be good old Kyros however even him is at best as competent as a VA. And probably not even the notable ones at that.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Can we please focus on the topic, that is finding out which of the Yonko or the WG would win? Thanks.

If not I don't see any reason to keep this thread running.

 

[Shasha23]

Here's what Fujitora and DD say:

This is from the better translation provided by Powermanga. Fujitora was recruited during the "World conscription". He only joined the Marines recently.And that's it.
Nothing indicates he was part of some other units in before, and it doesn't matter. We already came to the conclusion that the main military force in the OP world is the Marines, who are working under the WG. They along the CP units, and the Shichibukai are the forces that work for the WG.

Also why would the Marines use the term "military" ? Unless they're just that. In the end Fujitora is now part of the Marines, not the military.He was recruited by the Marines. So what could have happened is that after the War, the Marines had lost quite a few of their forces, so they had to replace them. That's why the draft was held. For all we know Fujitora could have been a civilian.
It is not a false statement, I just posted the damn pics. You should reread the whole arc, because nowhere is it stated that Fujitora was part of a fictional military unit before he joined the Marines.Your whole theory is based on a bunch of words that can even be translated into something else. Can you show me in the manga where Issho said he was part of the military? You can't because there simply is nothing like that.
You can continue to delude yourself into thinking he did, but this is really offtopic anyway, so I simply don't see why we should focus on that.
This is my last statement on the subject.And who cares if I'm right or wrong about this? Certainly not me.
If you need that kind of validation from discussing stuff online, then there is something lacking in your life, maybe you should try finding some hobby.

Weren't you saying the "world military" are the marines before, but now I see you've changed your tune!

Now understand my point from the begining, i said the WG has military forces out there with people of admiral strength, at this point I don't even care if there is a world military or just individual military from the 170+ countries under the WG, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the WG has far too many admiral strength individuals on their side to lose to the yonkou

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Weren't you saying the "world military" are the marines before, but now I see you've changed your tune!

Now understand my point from the begining, i said the WG has military forces out there with people of admiral strength, at this point I don't even care if there is a world military or just individual military from the 170+ countries under the WG, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the WG has far too many admiral strength individuals on their side to lose to the yonkou

Nah you're the one changing his tune because you're backed into a corner, since there is absolutely no proof that there is some force called the Military. But sure you can try to turn it around, and make it look like you won this argument
All you have is the word military from "military draft" .That's hardly a proof. If you can find anything in the manga that shows that the military as we know it in the real world exists, you're more than free to share it. Good luck with that.

Well looks like your analysis of the WG's power is flawed as well, since I can't see how the WG can hold its ground against 4 Yonko at the same time, even with said highly skilled admirals.
They struggled quite a bit against just one.

 

[Shasha23]

Nah you're the one changing his tune because you're backed into a corner, since there is absolutely no proof that there is some force called the military. But sure you can try to turn it around, and make it look like you won this argument
All you have is the word military from "military draft" .That's hardly a proof. If you can find anything in the manga that shows that the military as we know it in the real world exists, you're more than free to share it. Good luck with that.

Well looks like your analysis of the WG's power is flawed as well, since I can't see how the WG can hold its ground against 4 Yonko at the same time, even with said highly skilled admirals.
They struggled quite a bit against one.

When did the WG struggle with 1 yonkou because I only remember the marines and shichibukai fighting 1 yonkou or did another war happen????
And as far as I can remember the marines won that fight pretty comfortably

You people keep claiming things that never happened and again the WG is not just the marines

pfffff yes edit out the fact that I was right and proved you wrong

 

[kkck]

The marines did not win that battle too comfortably. Remember the war was not fought on even terms, the marines had ample time and preparation for it and they proved they used it well. The traps they had, them threatening to remove the shichibukai who didn't show up.

Overall, there isn't a shred of credible evidence that there is another military out there from which the marines can recruit people at all, let alone admiral level people. At best there would be local armies but even then there is no evidence of them having admiral class people around or them being willing or able to give them to the world government. So far the strongest by far is kyros and he is certainly no admiral class warrior. The only "evidence" and even then it would be a matter of interpretation of another military working for the world government is a proven mistranslation. Besides, wouldn't a draft pretty much be contradictory with fujitora coming from another branch of the military? Why would he be drafted from another branch of the military? It'd be more like a transfer.

 

[I Am Atomic]

The marines did not win that battle too comfortably. Remember the war was not fought on even terms, the marines had ample time and preparation for it and they proved they used it well. The traps they had, them threatening to remove the shichibukai who didn't show up.

Overall, there isn't a shred of credible evidence that there is another military out there from which the marines can recruit people at all, let alone admiral level people. At best there would be local armies but even then there is no evidence of them having admiral class people around or them being willing or able to give them to the world government. So far the strongest by far is kyros and he is certainly no admiral class warrior. The only "evidence" and even then it would be a matter of interpretation of another military working for the world government is a proven mistranslation. Besides, wouldn't a draft pretty much be contradictory with fujitora coming from another branch of the military? Why would he be drafted from another branch of the military? It'd be more like a transfer.

I strongly agree that 4 Yonko's together would certainly win but against WB alone Marines had not much of a problem. The Marines were pushed mainly because of Luffy. Luffy brought some strong members from Impel Down with him who helped WB. Marco was cuffed with sea stones but because of Mr 3 he continued otherwise he would have been . It's because of Luffy that Ace was able to escape. If it was anyone else apart from Luffy then Garp the Fist would have fisted them cleanly. Oh, I don't need to tell you that because you can clearly see what happened to Marco the Phoenix. Even though Luffy was a nobody in the war he certainly did change the momentum of the war.

Marines were missing 1 of the Shichibukai: Marshall D Teach. Not only that he turned against the Marines as well and WB too.

When people say that Marines were pushed into a corner I clearly do not understand because Aokiji and Kizaru were practically sleeping during the war. They took no damage! Even though Akainu was broken by WB he still fought all of the Commanders + Crocodile with him getting no damage. Before that he defeated Ivankov as well. So if he could do that then the other Admirals could do that as well.

How about people like Inurashi and Nekomamushi? I know they were pirates before but I am just proving to you that Kyros is not the strongest right now. Later on we might find islands which contains people with close to admiral strength. We never know. Still I am very surprised to how the Marines got 2 admirals out of nowhere. In the war we never saw them so where did these 2 appear from? Doflamingo described these 2 as real monsters as well.