Him not being a left-winger is a fair point, but you said he'd be a right winger, unless you mean the rest of the world is really the loony left....
Biden is in the middle of most issues you can also call him centrist, but if we want to be speciifc, Biden is socially liberal and fiscally conservative, but that itself makes him more moderate as well...
Him not being a left-winger is a fair point, but you said he'd be a right winger, unless you mean the rest of the world is really the loony left....
Biden is in the middle of most issues you can also call him centrist, but if we want to be speciifc, Biden is socially liberal and fiscally conservative, but that itself makes him more moderate as well...
And this matters with Biden being left because?????For you, 2 + 2 is 100
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On the elections, Biden may win, Trump is gonna cry foul but i dont think it will matter..
However, the Senate will be republican, so it doesnt matter at this point.
Depends on where you look at. If my understanding of european politics is more or less accurate then I can't imagine biden's current political positions fitting in with most countries left wing at all. In europe positions like medicare for all are not even regarded as left wing, they are just non partisan facts of life... I mean, if biden was in UK for instance I can't imagine him on the labour party.
Depends on where you look at. If my understanding of european politics is more or less accurate then I can't imagine biden's current political positions fitting in with most countries left wing at all. In europe positions like medicare for all are not even regarded as left wing, they are just non partisan facts of life... I mean, if biden was in UK for instance I can't imagine him on the labour party.
What about Climate? And if you extend his healthcare policies to some eastern european nations, and south asian nations, he may be even considered left? When you consider all his issues, he is still going to be left of, or right of center, not extreme left or right.
And my original comment was cos you said "anywhere but US he'd be a right wing conservative".... of course, it really depends...
Biden is leading the electoral votes at 248 versus Trump at 213. However, Michigan seems to be the grand finale state with PA still having millions of votes left to count.
P.S. all for mail-in ballots, but sheesh, take days to get this resorted legally and properly before a final decision is made.
But none of this proves that the elections would have been or have been rigged. How do you know inmates wouldn't support Republicans? And you're definitely an idiot if you think everyone under 18 would vote Dem when we have plenty of brainwashed Reps thanks to parents. And undocumented immigrants can still vote for Republican as well.
Exactly, but Biden and Pelosi do not like the left either, like AOC and Bernie, so they would stay away from them as well. IN any case, it was dumb of Biden to not cater to the left, and it's dumb for centrist Dems to blame progressive colleagues when Trump was going to call Biden a radical left or socialist anyway. He knows his cult will believe anything, and they fear anything left.
Democrats have done a horrible job this and previous election.
"legit right wing funded media" is such a goofy dog whistle. I mean, if you want to say it's the most legit English-speaking outlet, you'd still be wrong but at least it'd be more understandable. I guess you don't listen to any AM Radio or read any conservative newspapers so for some reason you don't think they exist.
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I like to see the reaction his supporters have to FOX News treating the results the way they have and immediately forsaking them, claiming it's all because they're owned by "leftist" Disney. Which they aren't btw, Nothing brings me more joy than to hear people refer to mega-corporations as "leftist".
I love how Trump keeps whining about mail-in ballots not being his favor, as if the fucktard didn't encourage his supporters to vote in person, while Biden supporters voted by mail because of covid. Shame his cult won't think about that.
What about Climate? And if you extend his healthcare policies to some eastern european nations, and south asian nations, he may be even considered left? When you consider all his issues, he is still going to be left of, or right of center, not extreme left or right.
And my original comment was cos you said "anywhere but US he'd be a right wing conservative".... of course, it really depends...
Granted that the situation is a tad more nuanced than biden being 100% on the conservative party (You will find points of disagreement) but... In practice at least republicans are nowhere near such a stance (not sure if perhaps republicans have that as a stance somewhere though or how this works out as far as implementation for the conservative party in the UK). Also... that platform in general does not look like something biden would object to (biden even said something about supporting and increasing law enforcement iirc).
Exactly, but Biden and Pelosi do not like the left either, like AOC and Bernie, so they would stay away from them as well. IN any case, it was dumb of Biden to not cater to the left, and it's dumb for centrist Dems to blame progressive colleagues when Trump was going to call Biden a radical left or socialist anyway. He knows his cult will believe anything, and they fear anything left.
Democrats have done a horrible job this and previous election.
I don't think Biden has a problem with them, but Biden is a centrist. He tries to go middle of the road. If the democrats are a more left party, Biden will adjust accordingly. He always did, he already is a lot lefter now than he used to be.
With pelosi, it is a bigger problem. I think the pelosi hate goes too far and is unwarranted for, yet i'd agree that Pelosi cannot effectively build a bridge between the moderate and progressive wing and thus should probably resign instead running for housespeaker again.
I would not necessarily say that what Biden did was not a smart move. After all, it looks like he won and it looks like the reason it was so close before was the voter suppression from the postal service. But it seems clear to me that this strategy was even only somewhat viable because of Trump and Covid, it won't be 2022.
Granted that the situation is a tad more nuanced than biden being 100% on the conservative party (You will find points of disagreement) but... In practice at least republicans are nowhere near such a stance (not sure if perhaps republicans have that as a stance somewhere though or how this works out as far as implementation for the conservative party in the UK). Also... that platform in general does not look like something biden would object to (biden even said something about supporting and increasing law enforcement iirc).
To me Biden is a deep centrist. If he lived in Europe and would join a european party, he'd still be in the center of it, because he'd adjust to it.
That is both his bane and strength.
The policies he is pushing forward can be seen as left of the american average, but left of the average in america is not anywhere close to what even moderate leftists in america would find satisfying because the country is very divided.
That is in my opinion the real difference to most european countries: Most european countries have some center left and center right option that are close enough to each other to meaningfully govern together and that most of the electorate find satisfying enough to vote for them even tho there are farther left and farther right options.
I think a lot of the young left in america would have far less of a problem with the democratic party if there'd be another third party for them coaligning with the moderate dems. Then they wouldnt have to vote for Biden but could vote for sanders, but still knew that these two parties together wiill prevent trump.
In turn, the democrats would not have to cater to crowds they are not going to satisfy. They can concentrate on doing what they think is right and trying to gain voters for it instead of claiming they will do things that they wont.
Biden is a centrist in a country that is so divided that classical centrism does not make sense anymore.
I don't think Biden has a problem with them, but Biden is a centrist. He tries to go middle of the road. If the democrats are a more left party, Biden will adjust accordingly. He always did, he already is a lot lefter now than he used to be.
With pelosi, it is a bigger problem. I think the pelosi hate goes too far and is unwarranted for, yet i'd agree that Pelosi cannot effectively build a bridge between the moderate and progressive wing and thus should probably resign instead running for housespeaker again.
I would not necessarily say that what Biden did was not a smart move. After all, it looks like he won and it looks like the reason it was so close before was the voter suppression from the postal service. But it seems clear to me that this strategy was even only somewhat viable because of Trump and Covid, it won't be 2022.
That is not about himself, that is about what moderate democrats and republicans want.
Biden is in the senate for decades. These people have very concrete ideas about what they can get through the senate and what they cant and what will have broad approval and what wont.
That can both be a blessing and a curse.
If the whole party would be for m4a and it would be a realistic possibility in his opinion, biden would definitely be for it.
Much like if all the democratic party would be for tougher law and order laws, he'd be for them, too.
Biden always made a point of being the most centrist democrat politician throughout the times.
To me Biden is a deep centrist. If he lived in Europe and would join a european party, he'd still be in the center of it, because he'd adjust to it.
That is both his bane and strength.
The policies he is pushing forward can be seen as left of the american average, but left of the average in america is not anywhere close to what even moderate leftists in america would find satisfying because the country is very divided.
That is in my opinion the real difference to most european countries: Most european countries have some center left and center right option that are close enough to each other to meaningfully govern together and that most of the electorate find satisfying enough to vote for them even tho there are farther left and farther right options.
I think a lot of the young left in america would have far less of a problem with the democratic party if there'd be another third party for them coaligning with the moderate dems. Then they wouldnt have to vote for Biden but could vote for sanders, but still knew that these two parties together wiill prevent trump.
In turn, the democrats would not have to cater to crowds they are not going to satisfy. They can concentrate on doing what they think is right and trying to gain voters for it instead of claiming they will do things that they wont.
Biden is a centrist in a country that is so divided that classical centrism does not make sense anymore.
I am comparing biden as he is now to how parties in UK are now though. I mean, sure, he might adapt in the hypothetical of him switching but that is a bit besides the point. Add to that, biden is still by all accounts a extremely corporate democrat (a tag also very much applicable to the far left wing communist socialist kamala harris). maybe this is just me but to me it's a hard sell that you can be a centrist and also a corporate democrat....
Biden absolutely is not to the left of the american average. Big issues nowadays are healthcare, economy, taxes for the wealthy.... Biden opposes Medicare for all, has promised investors nothing would change from trump, increasing taxes on wealthier people.. His stand on climate change is entirely bland and personally I don't see how it's compatible with someone that believes it's a thing. Best case scenario he manages to push through and bring back the entirely lackluster measures obama implemented back in the day (and even if given the chance wouldn't go further than that).
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So.... has anyone seen any information about turnout in 2020? As far as I can tell turnout was higher than 2016 but not THAT much higher. Going by the associated press (though I am not sure if I am interpreting this right) the turnout seems.... just a bit higher than 2016.
Biden absolutely is not to the left of the american average. Big issues nowadays are healthcare, economy, taxes for the wealthy.... Biden opposes Medicare for all, has promised investors nothing would change from trump, increasing taxes on wealthier people.. His stand on climate change is entirely bland and personally I don't see how it's compatible with someone that believes it's a thing. Best case scenario he manages to push through and bring back the entirely lackluster measures obama implemented back in the day (and even if given the chance wouldn't go further than that).
Half of america thinks that Trump is the better option than Biden. I don't think Biden is right of the center just because he is not completely on board with some popular leftist policies.
Some political scientists gauge ideology by comparing the annual ratings by the Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) with the ratings by the American Conservative Union (ACU).[391] Biden has a lifetime liberal 72% score from the ADA through 2004, while the ACU awarded Biden a lifetime conservative rating of 13% through 2008.[392] Using another metric, Biden has a lifetime average liberal score of 77.5%, according to a National Journal analysis that places him ideologically among the center of Senate Democrats as of 2008.[393]The Almanac of American Politics rates congressional votes as liberal or conservative on the political spectrum in three policy areas: economic, social, and foreign. For 2005–06, Biden's average economic rating was 80% liberal and 13% conservative, his social rating was 78% liberal and 18% conservative, and his foreign rating was 71% liberal and 25% conservative.[394] This has not changed significantly over time; his liberal ratings in the mid-1980s were also in the 70%–80% range.[
Biden is consistently in the center of the democratic movement. The movement was pushed to the left considerably since 2016 and biden was pushed to the left accordingly. He is still surely not a left wing democrat, but he is still in the center of the democratic party, as he has always been, which is to the left of the american average.
The american average is just skewed because half to country holds at least partial strongly rightwing or conspiracy views.
Unlike any other party we have a credible plan to deliver a Stronger Economy and a Stronger Country.
www.conservatives.com
Granted that the situation is a tad more nuanced than biden being 100% on the conservative party (You will find points of disagreement) but... In practice at least republicans are nowhere near such a stance (not sure if perhaps republicans have that as a stance somewhere though or how this works out as far as implementation for the conservative party in the UK). Also... that platform in general does not look like something biden would object to (biden even said something about supporting and increasing law enforcement iirc).
Boris Johnson isnt* right winged in the traditonal sense... He's got liberal policies as well as conservative ones on different issues, so sure, he is like Biden, so the point still stands...
Half of america thinks that Trump is the better option than Biden. I don't think Biden is right of the center just because he is not completely on board with some popular leftist policies.
Biden is consistently in the center of the democratic movement. The movement was pushed to the left considerably since 2016 and biden was pushed to the left accordingly. He is still surely not a left wing democrat, but he is still in the center of the democratic party, as he has always been, which is to the left of the american average.
The american average is just skewed because half to country holds at least partial strongly rightwing or conspiracy views.
But... medicare for all polls at 70%. That's not just a popular leftist policy, it's just popular. The green new deal perhaps is not as popular but an actual majority of people at the US believe its a real problem that needs to be address. Also, it's not even just some leftist policies... It's essentially the core of the leftwing in the US at this point. Otherwise, what the fuck are they doing?
I don't doubt biden is "characterized" as a moderate democrat. I just disagree with the characterization. And come on, it's fairly clear that wikipedia article has its head up its ass. Supporting fiscal stimulus is not a leftwing or moderate thing. Given the right circumstances (say, imminent economic collapse) it's just sound economic policy. Republicans are absolutely on board with economic stimulus when the situation calls for it. Bush did it, obama did it, trump did it. Republicans have only opposed economic stimulus when it suits their political agenda (or when it enough doesn't go to their donors). The article has supporting mass transit as a moderate policy ffs.... Also, my point was more along the lines of biden by standards outside the US not really fitting in the left wing. Of course biden will be a moderate left winger by US standards. But what isn't to the left of the current republican party?
Boris Johnson isnt* right winged in the traditonal sense... He's got liberal policies as well as conservative ones on different issues, so sure, he is like Biden, so the point still stands...
My point was more about the conservative party as a whole compared to biden rather than boris specifically (I can't really speak to much of boris' politics beyond brexit tbh). And even then, some of the points there would be utterly inconceivable for the republican party nowadays. And perhaps deemed too progressive for the democratic party....
When I say this, i mean from a longterm perspective. The Iraq war was a crime, but its casualties were confined to the middle east and the US suffered debt from it. That is one (horrible) thing.
But even tho the Iraq war put american leadership of the world into question, Bush didnt completely alienate the US from its allies and didnt leave a complete and dangerous power vacuum in the world by isolationist policies.
Bush was very unpopular by the end of his term, but even he didnt divide the country quite like Trump did.
Trump's effects might not be as flashy as a full blown war, but I think they are longer lasting and potentially far more dangerous. Even if Biden would be a very competent politician when it comes to foreign policy, he would have a hard time mending the lasting damage trump has done.
Even if he'd be a very competent domestic politician, he'd have a very hard time to mend the pieces Trump has left.
Obama didn't inherit quite the mess Trump made, from international politics over BLM protests to Covid.
But that's only true if you aren't his supporter. He did a lot more in his first 3 years than others, but the differnece is for all the compromises managed, he presents it as a win.
Important issues they bulldozed through are things like defunding planned parenthood, limiting legal immigration, caneling paris agreement, and even managed a compromise on a lot of situations...
Look at the number supreme court justices he's got now, imagine how difficult it'll be for democrats to pass things even if they get into power. Trump has managed to achieve more than other republicans...
My point was more about the conservative party as a whole compared to biden rather than boris specifically (I can't really speak to much of boris' politics beyond brexit tbh). And even then, some of the points there would be utterly inconceivable for the republican party nowadays. And perhaps deemed too progressive for the democratic party....
OK, you said rest of the world, conservative party alone i am not as well informed so i'll take your word for it.
Boris has actually been pro immigration except the Brexit issue, which isnt just an immigration issue.
You are right about the republican party, they are way more united than the democrats on the issue which makes them stronger, and as you aptly said deem even Joe as "progressive",
But... medicare for all polls at 70%. That's not just a popular leftist policy, it's just popular. The green new deal perhaps is not as popular but an actual majority of people at the US believe its a real problem that needs to be address. Also, it's not even just some leftist policies... It's essentially the core of the leftwing in the US at this point. Otherwise, what the fuck are they doing?
I don't doubt biden is "characterized" as a moderate democrat. I just disagree with the characterization. And come on, it's fairly clear that wikipedia article has its head up its ass. Supporting fiscal stimulus is not a leftwing or moderate thing. Given the right circumstances (say, imminent economic collapse) it's just sound economic policy. Republicans are absolutely on board with economic stimulus when the situation calls for it. Bush did it, obama did it, trump did it. Republicans have only opposed economic stimulus when it suits their political agenda (or when it enough doesn't go to their donors). The article has supporting mass transit as a moderate policy ffs.... Also, my point was more along the lines of biden by standards outside the US not really fitting in the left wing. Of course biden will be a moderate left winger by US standards. But what isn't to the left of the current republican party?
The problem i can see tho is that people who are for it do not vote for it.
Some change their mind when you put a pricetag on it.
Some just dont have it as number 1 issue and their vote is decided by abortion rights or immigration policy rather than healthcare.
46% of americans think the US should drastically reduce their fossil fuel output (which is already shockingly low).
When asked whether they still think that when confronted with paying trillions of dollars for it, only 30% support it.
Someone like sanders can come out and say it will pay for itself by creating jobs and get some of them to vote for it, but still these kinds of polls are only meaningful when the voters know the cost.
The same is true with other popular policies, it depends strongly on the phrasing.
For example, when asked whether they support medicare for all REPLACING all private healthcare, then only 41% of the people support it.
Medicare for all WHO WANT IT, as little pete calls it, however has 70% support.
These numbers are from 2019, but you can still see that it isnt as easy as looking which policy is popular on paper and not asking more questions. Moderate politicians know that.
I am a progressive person, you are running on open doors with me via free healthcare, the green deal and all kinds of far leftist policies.
But I would not go as far as to say that the majority of the US is on board with these just yet if you ask thoroughly. You would have to fight very hard for these policies (and do not get me wrong, i think democrats should).
But that's only true if you aren't his supporter. He did a lot more in his first 3 years than others, but the differnece is for all the compromises managed, he presents it as a win.
Important issues they bulldozed through are things like defunding planned parenthood, limiting legal immigration, caneling paris agreement, and even managed a compromise on a lot of situations...
Look at the number supreme court justices he's got now, imagine how difficult it'll be for democrats to pass things even if they get into power. Trump has managed to achieve more than other republicans...
I am aware of that, i am speaking purely of the standpoint of a progressive who would like the US and the world to improve (for which lots of Trump's policies are not helpful).
In my opinion, it is time for democrats to embrace their left wing. What moderate democrats tried since two elections didnt seem to work all that well and they DO have a left wing that inspires people, especially the young voters that grow in size.
In this election, moderate won and the support of the left wing gave them a big chunk of the left vote (this time, nobody can blame the bernie bros).
I think if it would be reversed and moderate democrats would use their powerful strings and logistics to support a campaign full of enthusiastic young staffers, they could be more successful than this time. If they put a lot of effort into helping people to register for voting and fight back against suppression with their (probable) white house win (and ideally a possible senate win).
