Discussion Bounties: How are they Attributed?

[BigBadDogg]

Who are these fighters? As far as I see, Enel would be extremely difficult to beat without the proper tools. As far as I recall, Enel doesn't have a bounty but he's still one of the more powerful characters, at least because of his devil fruit.

How would she be able to beat Daz Bones when Zoro himself had to go past his limits to slash steel? Unless fire and/or thunder can hurt Daz, Nami can't win.

The Supernovas, Jimbei, Sanji, crew members of yonkos.

 

[Fox666]

What is very weird is that Nami, Brook and Chopper didn't get an increase after WCI. Even more weird is that there was no mention of a new bounty for Bege either. Jinbe kinda makes sense with his fate up in the air and even his original bounty unknown.

The government raised their bounties based on Morgans article, so it's makes sense that who was not mentioned in the article were not changed. I presume all 4 involved in the assassination (Luffy, Sanji, Jinbe, Bege) had their bounties increased.

 

[M3J]

The Supernovas, Jimbei, Sanji, crew members of yonkos.

Can you actually prove this? Back it up with something? Crew members of Yonkou could probably beat Enel, but that's a big if. Blackbeard should be able to if he takes away Enel's devil fruit power, but given Enel's Color of Observation, that'll be hard.

 

[hokageji]

Both Daz (arabasta) and Nami are not haki users., how do we conclude Daz will lose to Nami? Also, its not like he ate the Steel Steel fruit or something, and that Nami's lightening will conduct his body. His ability is to turn his body into blades, which is actually really cool. But in terms of weakness to lightening, it will be the same as any user surely.
The only absolute discussions we can have is with DF ability cancellations or Haki. For instance, Daz DF ability will have no effect on a logia without Haki. So Caribou should be able to beat him, limiting the contest to DF of course..

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2018, Original Post Date: May 18, 2018 ---

Regarding Enel, i just think its speculation. Oda had clarified that if Enel was a pirate, his bounty would've been 500 million. That is how much of a threat he alone would place. Lightening as an ability has few disadvantages. Only Diamond and Rubber as Df abilities possibly will have no effect. His CoA was also superior to most people.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

@M3J : I'm assuming electricity can hurt Daz Bones since steel is a conductor.

About Enel: I think we all know that if Enel came back he'd play in the big leagues (kinda like Crocodile in Marine Ford but way more epic), but if pre-gears Luffy could make attacks that are too fast for him while he was already in full lightning form ( I'm quoting Enel himself here), and if pre-ts Sanji could tank one of his attacks, I'm pretty sure his feats are severely lacking compared to NW characters. Plus, mantra and haki in general is kind of no big deal in the NW, I wouldn't consider it any kind of advantage in hand to hand.

 

[M3J]

@M3J : I'm assuming electricity can hurt Daz Bones since steel is a conductor.

About Enel: I think we all know that if Enel came back he'd play in the big leagues (kinda like Crocodile in Marine Ford but way more epic), but if pre-gears Luffy could make attacks that are too fast for him while he was already in full lightning form ( I'm quoting Enel himself here), and if pre-ts Sanji could tank one of his attacks, I'm pretty sure his feats are severely lacking compared to NW characters. Plus, mantra and haki in general is kind of no big deal in the NW, I wouldn't consider it any kind of advantage in hand to hand.

as hokageji said, Daz Bones wasn't a steel user, was he? He could turn his body parts into blades that were as hard as steel.

But Enel also one-shot Zoro, who despite being more exhausted wasn't knocked out by Kuma's shockwave or when he took in Luffy's pain and exhaustion. I forgot how fast Enel is, but if he's plenty fast or has gotten faster, then mantra would make a difference, especially since he can cover a wide range due to his devil fruit.

 

[Futomimi]

But the reality is that it doesn't because that's not what it reflects.

• Bounty only goes up after incidents, therefore, it reflects the magnitudes of incidents one has been involved in which is why it goes up only after incidents.

How can Bounty reflect strength when:

1. Zoro defeated a fighter with 2200 Doriki (the actual measure of strength)
2. Sanji defeated a 2180 Doriki opponent.

Yet, Zoro got a bounty of 120m while Sanji 77m. How can a Difference of just 20 Doriki amount to a difference of 43m in Bounty if it is a measure of strength?

When Zoro had a bounty of 60m, he'd defeated Daz Bones; Nami currently has a bounty of 66m; if bounty reflects strength, are you suggesting that Nami could have defeated the opponents Zoro defeated at 60m Bounty?

It's not an indicate of strength, but of accumulated incidents depending on magnitude.

If one assumes bounty reflects strength, they will come to flawed conclusions. Urouge with a 108m bounty as far as we know defeated a 600m bounty warrior while Kid & Apoo weren't able to do anything against Big Mom. Even Usopp had a higher bounty than Sanji; 200m against 177m.

No matter how high a bounty is, it only allows one to make general assumptions regarding their attributes, but we will ultimately never be able to tell to what degree. Zoro with a 120m bounty can defeat Pacifista; Luffy without a 300m bounty couldn't do this without help.

A lot of discrepancies with bounty if seen as a measure of strength.

You're right, a bounty is not an accurate measure of strength. However a HIGH bounty (around 300 million or more) is ALWAYS a good measure of strength.

There may be many strong characters whose bounties do not reflect their strength (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post - lack of notoriety or no threat to WG for example, AKAINU). But when a character had an extremely high bounty it is because people in the OP world are afraid to fight them - they are most certainly strong. This is the same reason many pirates would eagerly go after those with bounties of 30 million but attacking a yonkou is considered suicide.

On the point of the douriki that was a measure of their opponents strength, not their own.

You are right, Bounties increase after incidents for two reasons: increased notoriety and further threat to the world government. Both of these refer to increased perception of strength/threat/danger.

This is why a weak or even relatively strong character will never receive the kind of bounty that the strongest in OP world do, they are in a league of their own. There should be no confusion about this point.

*ill make one exception: it is possible that a weak character can have an outsized reputation (like Hercule from DBZ claiming to defeat cell) but as far as I know we haven't seen this yet

EDIT: just put yourself in the shoes of a bounty hunter after a fortune or the world government trying to distribute its budget amongst various threats. The whole system is very consistent

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

On the point of the douriki that was a measure of their opponents strength, not their own.

No? That was a measure of their strength. They had to punch Fukuro to get a reading.

You're right, a bounty is not an accurate measure of strength. However a HIGH bounty (around 300 million or more) is ALWAYS a good measure of strength.

It really isn't. Bounty doesn't change pre-300m as it does post-300m, it's determined the same way. You will need evidence to verify this as being remotely true and I can assure you there really isn't.

Like I've said before:

1. Luffy with a bounty of 300m couldn't destroy a Pacifista without help.
2. Urouge with a bounty of 108m did as well as Luffy did despite being 300m in bounty.

Why is there a discrepancy in strength? because it's not a measure of strength, but a calculation of the magnitude of incidents one has been involved in.

In fact, Zoro with a bounty of roughly 300m is able to destroy a Pacifista with 1 hit whereas Luffy couldn't have done that when he had a similar bounty. If people with bounties of 300m can't do the same things strengthwise, then it clearly isn't a measure of strength at any level.

It isn't a measure of strength at any level, it's more like a reasonable assumption of strength.

When you see someone with a bounty of let's say 300m, you can only presume certain reasonable things... but can never factually state anything other than they've been involved in incidents (at least 1) that have accumulated a total value of 300m. The only things that can be presumed are attributes like:

1. They're probably strong (doesn't mean they are and even if they are, one cannot tell exactly how strong).
2. They're probably smart (doesn't mean they are and if they are, can't tell how smart).

It's almost like a resume in a sense. If someone has been an engineer for 30 years, you can assume certain things, but you can never state anything factual besides they have 30 years of experience. You can assume:

1. They're skilled (doesn't mean they are).
2. Can assume they're great at engineering (doesn't mean they are).

Only reasonable assumptions can be made, but nothing factually can be stated regarding their parameters and attributes.

The only constant with Bounty is incident, everything else is a reasonable assumption that cannot be verified until we get first-hand evidence of what they're capable of.

It doesn't get any clearer about Bounty and Strength when Urouge who had a bounty of 108m and if I'm being generous, triple that during the time-skip as a sound assumption giving him a value of 324m, yet he defeated a Sweet Commander while Kid and Apoo both rocking averages of 350m and 470m respectively failed.

Like Robin, 80m at the age of 8 and Hancock 80m at the age of 18. Doesn't mean they were equal strength, the only constant is both were involved in incident and everything else like strength is an assumption.

Even if you get 2 people of equal Bounty value, you couldn't even claim they're evenly matched because we see they're really not.

You are right, Bounties increase after incidents for two reasons: increased notoriety and further threat to the world government. Both of these refer to increased perception of strength/threat/danger.

This is why a weak or even relatively strong character will never receive the kind of bounty that the strongest in OP world do, they are in a league of their own. There should be no confusion about this point.

It actually doesn't.

Unless Bounty takes into consideration Doriki, or strength and fighting ability, it doesn't. To even do this, one has to be there to witness the fights and no one is really ever there to witness the fight between:

• Luffy vs Cracker (Let's not forget how he won this fight... he ran for 11 hours... he had help from Homies and Nami... not exactly a fair fight)
• or Luffy vs Katakuri

All they had was the result and he got a Bounty increase. Only the results matter, not the how. If Bege had equally done as much as Luffy did even if he used underhanded tactics, he'd equally have gained a similar bounty of 1,500,000,000.

Caesar got a bounty of 300m for simply using a biological weapon illegally, and thus got given a bounty. Not like he defeated anyone, all he did was do something illegal. Nothing to do with strength.

Anyone can get a ridiculously high bounty simply for being involved in multiple incidents and it depends on the magnitude. Give someone, anyone control of an Ancient Weapon and they will easily get a high bounty in the billions depending on how they use it regardless of how weak or strong they were.

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2018, Original Post Date: May 18, 2018 ---

What is very weird is that Nami, Brook and Chopper didn't get an increase after WCI. Even more weird is that there was no mention of a new bounty for Bege either. Jinbe kinda makes sense with his fate up in the air and even his original bounty unknown.

It depends on whether they were really noticed. Nami and co. were pretty effaced from the situation so I don't think they really got much spot-light, so it's possible she along with Brook didn't really get any increases in bounty for that reason.

I'd expect Jimbei and Bege to have received one though, but will wait to see that.

The government raised their bounties based on Morgans article, so it's makes sense that who was not mentioned in the article were not changed. I presume all 4 involved in the assassination (Luffy, Sanji, Jinbe, Bege) had their bounties increased.

The WG are the ones who issue bounties, they don't need to wait for Morgan to release anything to attribute a Bounty. All they really need is to know what the incident was, who was the leader and those who were noticeably involved, and based on that they can size up the incident and hand down a value. It's more likely Stussy's report is what the bounties were based on as shes an actual part of the WG, not Morgan's news. It's no different to when Luffy got his first bounty, it was because Nezumi reported the SHs and then they got a bounty (at least, Luffy did).

For Morgan's newspaper to have the bounties, I'd assume the WG would need to issue a bounty first. The only instance I can imagine Morgan's news being used to attribute a bounty is if there's no WG agent to report an incident, and then his report might be the relevant.

 

[McNuss]

as hokageji said, Daz Bones wasn't a steel user, was he? He could turn his body parts into blades that were as hard as steel.

But Enel also one-shot Zoro, who despite being more exhausted wasn't knocked out by Kuma's shockwave or when he took in Luffy's pain and exhaustion. I forgot how fast Enel is, but if he's plenty fast or has gotten faster, then mantra would make a difference, especially since he can cover a wide range due to his devil fruit.

No, he was a blade user, his entire body was a blade with infinite edges. This blades however were made of steel, and even the parts that he didn't transform to have an edge are still steel, otherwise Zoro would have been able to cut him. Zoro even asks in his flashback if it is possible to cut steel. The Fruit's name Supa Supa no Mi and Daz' dream to become a superhero are also a pun on Superman - The Man of Steel.

----

Another thing, I think if each Straw Hat was a captain on their own, they would at least have an additional 100 mil on their bounties.
Except for Jinbe since he already was a captain before joining.

 

[Franz]

Unfortunately now the bounty have become high numbers that Oda sticks to the characters to pump them, the same way of fighting levels in Dragon Ball.

Just look at Luffy pre timeskip that:

- He is the son of the most wanted man in the world, nephew of the legend of the Navy, adoptive brother of the son of the King of the Pirates

- He defeated two Shichibukai

- Accused of the destruction of Enies Lobby

- Responsible for the biggest escape in the history of ID.

Yet it has a lower bounty than Tamago, which in turn has a bounty higher than all Shichibukai pre timeskip except Mihawk.


Now finally Luffy has a bounty that reflects its value, the problem is that we arrived after high numbers shot at random, see Smoothie.

 

[Futomimi]

No? That was a measure of their strength. They had to punch Fukuro to get a reading.



It really isn't. Bounty doesn't change pre-300m as it does post-300m, it's determined the same way. You will need evidence to verify this as being remotely true and I can assure you there really isn't.

Like I've said before:

1. Luffy with a bounty of 300m couldn't destroy a Pacifista without help.
2. Urouge with a bounty of 108m did as well as Luffy did despite being 300m in bounty.

Why is there a discrepancy in strength? because it's not a measure of strength, but a calculation of the magnitude of incidents one has been involved in.

In fact, Zoro with a bounty of roughly 300m is able to destroy a Pacifista with 1 hit whereas Luffy couldn't have done that when he had a similar bounty. If people with bounties of 300m can't do the same things strengthwise, then it clearly isn't a measure of strength at any level.

It isn't a measure of strength at any level, it's more like a reasonable assumption of strength.

When you see someone with a bounty of let's say 300m, you can only presume certain reasonable things... but can never factually state anything other than they've been involved in incidents (at least 1) that have accumulated a total value of 300m. The only things that can be presumed are attributes like:

1. They're probably strong (doesn't mean they are and even if they are, one cannot tell exactly how strong).
2. They're probably smart (doesn't mean they are and if they are, can't tell how smart).

It's almost like a resume in a sense. If someone has been an engineer for 30 years, you can assume certain things, but you can never state anything factual besides they have 30 years of experience. You can assume:

1. They're skilled (doesn't mean they are).
2. Can assume they're great at engineering (doesn't mean they are).

Only reasonable assumptions can be made, but nothing factually can be stated regarding their parameters and attributes.

The only constant with Bounty is incident, everything else is a reasonable assumption that cannot be verified until we get first-hand evidence of what they're capable of.

It doesn't get any clearer about Bounty and Strength when Urouge who had a bounty of 108m and if I'm being generous, triple that during the time-skip as a sound assumption giving him a value of 324m, yet he defeated a Sweet Commander while Kid and Apoo both rocking averages of 350m and 470m respectively failed.

Like Robin, 80m at the age of 8 and Hancock 80m at the age of 18. Doesn't mean they were equal strength, the only constant is both were involved in incident and everything else like strength is an assumption.

Even if you get 2 people of equal Bounty value, you couldn't even claim they're evenly matched because we see they're really not.



It actually doesn't.

Unless Bounty takes into consideration Doriki, or strength and fighting ability, it doesn't. To even do this, one has to be there to witness the fights and no one is really ever there to witness the fight between:

• Luffy vs Cracker (Let's not forget how he won this fight... he ran for 11 hours... he had help from Homies and Nami... not exactly a fair fight)
• or Luffy vs Katakuri

All they had was the result and he got a Bounty increase. Only the results matter, not the how. If Bege had equally done as much as Luffy did even if he used underhanded tactics, he'd equally have gained a similar bounty of 1,500,000,000.

Caesar got a bounty of 300m for simply using a biological weapon illegally, and thus got given a bounty. Not like he defeated anyone, all he did was do something illegal. Nothing to do with strength.

Anyone can get a ridiculously high bounty simply for being involved in multiple incidents and it depends on the magnitude. Give someone, anyone control of an Ancient Weapon and they will easily get a high bounty in the billions depending on how they use it regardless of how weak or strong they were.

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2018, Original Post Date: May 18, 2018 ---

It depends on whether they were really noticed. Nami and co. were pretty effaced from the situation so I don't think they really got much spot-light, so it's possible she along with Brook didn't really get any increases in bounty for that reason.

I'd expect Jimbei and Bege to have received one though, but will wait to see that.



The WG are the ones who issue bounties, they don't need to wait for Morgan to release anything to attribute a Bounty. All they really need is to know what the incident was, who was the leader and those who were noticeably involved, and based on that they can size up the incident and hand down a value. It's more likely Stussy's report is what the bounties were based on as shes an actual part of the WG, not Morgan's news. It's no different to when Luffy got his first bounty, it was because Nezumi reported the SHs and then they got a bounty (at least, Luffy did).

For Morgan's newspaper to have the bounties, I'd assume the WG would need to issue a bounty first. The only instance I can imagine Morgan's news being used to attribute a bounty is if there's no WG agent to report an incident, and then his report might be the relevant.

Thank you for your reply. I apologize for the mistake about Douriki, and I agree that is a factual measure or strength in terms of punching power.

The resume analogy is good, but I would argue that a high bounty is not based on say 30 years experience- we've seen plenty of pirates who have presumably been active for much longer than the supernovas with Lower bounties. As you've said verifiable incidents that demonstrate a person is dangerous (to WG or in general) increase your bounty. Although that is ultimately subjective, I'm saying there's no way someone can achieve that sort of reputation unless they really are dangerous/strong.

Now on Uruoge I want to reiterate that his bounty may greatly underestimate his strength. However, that doesn't mean other characters bounties have been overestimated.

I think there are three points that are causing disagreement:
1) what is the strict cutoff after which only very powerful characters would receive a high bounty? Is it 300 million or higher?
2) is it possible to compare characters strength based on bounty? (I would say that at the top tier bounties it is, but in many cases as we've pointed out it isn't. Again as far as I know Akainu has a bounty of zero)
3) what is meant by strength? Are we referring to a characters punching strength or Do we include DF abilities, speed, defense, and tactics? What about access to fleets or powerful weapons? For me strength is just the ability to win a fight by whatever means. It's not very noble, but it's reality (I'd rather fight someone physically stronger than me than a weak man with a gun)

 

[M3J]

to be fair, bounties aren't really accurate either, they depend on what the World Government/Marines know and are willing to do. Someone like Crocodile, who is pretty strong, has had a low bounty for years because he was a shichibukai, and his bounty froze. Despite that, he was still sent to level 5 or 6 in Impel Down, which is reserved for some of the most dangerous criminals. The World Government know nothing about Enel, so he has no bounty, but if bounty was based on power, then Enel's bounty would be over 200 million.

So yeah, bounty's not really all that accurate of a description, it's just an indicator.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Thank you for your reply. I apologize for the mistake about Douriki, and I agree that is a factual measure or strength in terms of punching power.

The resume analogy is good, but I would argue that a high bounty is not based on say 30 years experience- we've seen plenty of pirates who have presumably been active for much longer than the supernovas with Lower bounties. As you've said verifiable incidents that demonstrate a person is dangerous (to WG or in general) increase your bounty. Although that is ultimately subjective, I'm saying there's no way someone can achieve that sort of reputation unless they really are dangerous/strong.

Now on Uruoge I want to reiterate that his bounty may greatly underestimate his strength. However, that doesn't mean other characters bounties have been overestimated.

I think there are three points that are causing disagreement:
1) what is the strict cutoff after which only very powerful characters would receive a high bounty? Is it 300 million or higher?
2) is it possible to compare characters strength based on bounty? (I would say that at the top tier bounties it is, but in many cases as we've pointed out it isn't. Again as far as I know Akainu has a bounty of zero)
3) what is meant by strength? Are we referring to a characters punching strength or Do we include DF abilities, speed, defense, and tactics? What about access to fleets or powerful weapons? For me strength is just the ability to win a fight by whatever means. It's not very noble, but it's reality (I'd rather fight someone physically stronger than me than a weak man with a gun)

No problem, I should respond since I created this thread after-all, lol.

I'm not saying a Bounty is based on years, I'm saying a Bounty is no different to a resume. A resume will give you their objective achievements, but not their objective attributes which is why people for job interviews in order to gauge the person of interest. Example, 2 people both qualified with the same results, does it mean both people are equally as talented, as smart, as responsible, as social and equally qualified as the other? No.

Having a Bounty simply indicates that x-person has been involved in an incident or incidents (their achievements). The total value of Bounty is simply an accumulation of the value of all incidents one has been involved in. Nothing more and nothing less, everything else one reads from Bounty is plain assumption other than the fact that incident or incidents have been committed.

The same way you will make assumptions regarding someone who has had 2 or 30 years experience in a Job is the same way one can make assumptions regarding anyone that has a bounty of 70m or 500m.

Someone with 2 years experience might actually be far more skilled than someone with 30 years, all the years tell you is how long they've had experience for. To assume the 30 years experienced person is better is simply just an assumption, not a fact. That is the same case with Bounty.

It doesn't matter if people have lower bounties than Supernova or not, the bottom line is it only reflects incidents.

Urouge's Bounty doesn't underestimate his strength because that is not what it calculates. It reflects the magnitude of the incident he committed. So regardless of Urouge's bounty being 108m while Kid's is 470m, it doesn't mean Urouge is weaker than Kid nor does it mean Kid is stronger than Urouge, it just indicates that Kid has been involved in a lot more incidents or Incidents of higher magnitude.

If Luffy as strong as he currently is committed the crimes he did at East Blue from Baratie to Cocoyashi Village, he'd still receive a bounty of 30m. Why? It's because that's the magnitude of the incident, not his strength.

With that said, Urouge could have been involved in 1 incident that amounted to a Bounty of 108m and have even been stronger than all the Supernova. Just because Kid's was 315m doesn't make him stronger, just means he was involved in more incidents.

Why didn't Blackbeard who crossed Swords with Shanks have a bounty? because he was unknown. Incident is what earns bounties, not strength.

1. It's not really relevant, it's not measuring strength, it's measuring magnitude. Whether it's 300m or 100m, it's the magnitude of the incident, not the character's strength.
2. It isn't. It's not reflect strength, it's just reflecting magnitude of the total amount of incidents they've been involved in.
3. This is also not relevant, the definition really isn't because it's not what it's reflecting. It's reflecting the total magnitude of all incidents that one has committed. And Strength is generally quantified by physical strength which makes Doriki the most reliable measure of strength; DFs don't reflect strength, but reflect advantage e.g. Perona defeating Zoro, Luffy and Sanji simply because her ability can render optimistic people severely depressed inconsiderate of their strength.

As I've said before, take anyone's bounty and there's no consistency at all in terms of strength because that is not what it measures.

Bege has a bounty of 300m, yet he seemingly doesn't even possess Haki. It's not strength being reflected, but the value of the magnitude of accumulated incidents.

Did you see what Sanji's bounty got raised by? 153m, what for? For defeating anyone? No, all he did was bake a cake. It really isn't a measure of strength as so many people perceive it to be.

If you read the final paragraph of the OP, I said you can only make binary estimates of attributes, not detailed. Someone with a Bounty no matter how high can be assumed (assumption is not fact, remember that):

1. Strong - We will never know how strong.
2. Smart - We will never know how smart.

No different to how someone who has worked in a field for x-amount of years, we can assume:

1. They're good at their job - we won't know how good.

It's just reasonable assumptions in regards to strength with Bounty, but even those reasonable assumptions are still just assumptions, not facts.

It's no different to looking at Hancock and Robin with 80m Bounties without having their backgrounds. Regardless of the assumptions, they're just assumptions, not facts. Those attributes whether strength or intelligence is not what Bounty calculates, all it calculates is the magnitude of accumulated incidents, that's the fact.

Again, the denominator when it comes to Bounty is:

Incident, not strength. All Bounty does is incident. Why do you think Law's bounty went from 200m to 440m? It's because of the Rocky Port incident.

 

[hokageji]

I think bounties are not absolutes about anything but how the world government considers them as a threat or the crimes they've committed....
Kidd had a bounty higher than Luffy, inspite of Luffy declaring war on the govt, entering Enes Lobby and escaping out of it, beating their top CP9 agent.
Kidd has caused damage even to innocent citizens, which the marines/WG seem to consider a worser crime...
https://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/498/19

I think we can use bounties as a comparative purpose of grouping some pirates together in terms of strength, but we absolutely cannot use it to compare two individual pirates and say one is stronger than the other because of their bounty.
What i mean is, all supernovae's are 100 million + bounty, so they can be considered to be stronger than other rookies, but not stronger than people above 500 million as a group. But if you compare say Urouge vs Luffy and say Luffy is way stronger, i'd not buy that argument just because luffy is abt 200million higher. Urouge even managed to beat Snack during the time-skip while the other supernovas couldnt.

Another example would be Snack. His bounty is just 550 million, but he was a sweet commander inspite of Perospero's bounty being 770 million. Perospero is much older and that justifies his bounty. We also know he is insanely strong and resilient, but he wasnt a sweet commander. It still could be that Perospero was and demoted, but that adds to the fact that Snack was considered strong enough to be the top3 .

 

[Futomimi]

No problem, I should respond since I created this thread after-all, lol.

I'm not saying a Bounty is based on years, I'm saying a Bounty is no different to a resume. A resume will give you their objective achievements, but not their objective attributes which is why people for job interviews in order to gauge the person of interest. Example, 2 people both qualified with the same results, does it mean both people are equally as talented, as smart, as responsible, as social and equally qualified as the other? No.

Having a Bounty simply indicates that x-person has been involved in an incident or incidents (their achievements). The total value of Bounty is simply an accumulation of the value of all incidents one has been involved in. Nothing more and nothing less, everything else one reads from Bounty is plain assumption other than the fact that incident or incidents have been committed.

The same way you will make assumptions regarding someone who has had 2 or 30 years experience in a Job is the same way one can make assumptions regarding anyone that has a bounty of 70m or 500m.

Someone with 2 years experience might actually be far more skilled than someone with 30 years, all the years tell you is how long they've had experience for. To assume the 30 years experienced person is better is simply just an assumption, not a fact. That is the same case with Bounty.

It doesn't matter if people have lower bounties than Supernova or not, the bottom line is it only reflects incidents.

Urouge's Bounty doesn't underestimate his strength because that is not what it calculates. It reflects the magnitude of the incident he committed. So regardless of Urouge's bounty being 108m while Kid's is 470m, it doesn't mean Urouge is weaker than Kid nor does it mean Kid is stronger than Urouge, it just indicates that Kid has been involved in a lot more incidents or Incidents of higher magnitude.

If Luffy as strong as he currently is committed the crimes he did at East Blue from Baratie to Cocoyashi Village, he'd still receive a bounty of 30m. Why? It's because that's the magnitude of the incident, not his strength.

With that said, Urouge could have been involved in 1 incident that amounted to a Bounty of 108m and have even been stronger than all the Supernova. Just because Kid's was 315m doesn't make him stronger, just means he was involved in more incidents.

Why didn't Blackbeard who crossed Swords with Shanks have a bounty? because he was unknown. Incident is what earns bounties, not strength.

1. It's not really relevant, it's not measuring strength, it's measuring magnitude. Whether it's 300m or 100m, it's the magnitude of the incident, not the character's strength.
2. It isn't. It's not reflect strength, it's just reflecting magnitude of the total amount of incidents they've been involved in.
3. This is also not relevant, the definition really isn't because it's not what it's reflecting. It's reflecting the total magnitude of all incidents that one has committed. And Strength is generally quantified by physical strength which makes Doriki the most reliable measure of strength; DFs don't reflect strength, but reflect advantage e.g. Perona defeating Zoro, Luffy and Sanji simply because her ability can render optimistic people severely depressed inconsiderate of their strength.

As I've said before, take anyone's bounty and there's no consistency at all in terms of strength because that is not what it measures.

Bege has a bounty of 300m, yet he seemingly doesn't even possess Haki. It's not strength being reflected, but the value of the magnitude of accumulated incidents.

Did you see what Sanji's bounty got raised by? 153m, what for? For defeating anyone? No, all he did was bake a cake. It really isn't a measure of strength as so many people perceive it to be.

If you read the final paragraph of the OP, I said you can only make binary estimates of attributes, not detailed. Someone with a Bounty no matter how high can be assumed (assumption is not fact, remember that):

1. Strong - We will never know how strong.
2. Smart - We will never know how smart.

No different to how someone who has worked in a field for x-amount of years, we can assume:

1. They're good at their job - we won't know how good.

It's just reasonable assumptions in regards to strength with Bounty, but even those reasonable assumptions are still just assumptions, not facts.

It's no different to looking at Hancock and Robin with 80m Bounties without having their backgrounds. Regardless of the assumptions, they're just assumptions, not facts. Those attributes whether strength or intelligence is not what Bounty calculates, all it calculates is the magnitude of accumulated incidents, that's the fact.

Again, the denominator when it comes to Bounty is:

Incident, not strength. All Bounty does is incident. Why do you think Law's bounty went from 200m to 440m? It's because of the Rocky Port incident.

I'm pretty much in agreement with what you're saying. I just think the likelihood of a weakling accumulating a reputation of wreaking havoc left and right is very very low - they would've already been captured/killed if they were weak. Especially since they've continued to elude capture after already having Committed many crimes and making many powerfulenemies. On the flip side, someone very skilled may not yet have had a chance to prove themselves, so they wouldnt yet receive the respect that they may have the potential to earn. And no, bounty is not a measure of pure physical strength. You could call it advantage which is purely situational. I mean one of the things that makes luffy so dangerous is his luck (which was foreshadowed by Hawkins and fujitora). At the same time pure physical strength is more a measure of how big of rocks you can lift and shouldnt be equated with winning every fight/succeeding in every endeavor.

I definitely don't advocate using bounties as a way to end power level discussions, but to ignore them just because they're not absolute is a wasted opportunity. They give us one of the few actual measures of a characters... resume as you say.

 

[Franz]

to be fair, bounties aren't really accurate either, they depend on what the World Government/Marines know and are willing to do. Someone like Crocodile, who is pretty strong, has had a low bounty for years because he was a shichibukai, and his bounty froze.

Actually, according to Oda, if Crocodile's bounty had reflected the crimes committed as Mr 0 (including the attempted awakening of Pluton) would have been double, or 162 million, a bounty that now would have at most the subject of a subject of a subordinate of an emperor. XD

 

[M3J]

when did he share what Crocodile's bounty would have been? If this was way before the timeskip, then that kinda means nothing now

 

[McNuss]

when did he share what Crocodile's bounty would have been? If this was way before the timeskip, then that kinda means nothing now

It was in one of the SBS, I'm sure of that. probably around the Skypea or Water 7 Saga. But to my knowledge it was at least double.

Anyways I think the reason why Crocodile's bounty is so low is because "Sir" Crocodile didn't exist that long before becoming a Shishibukai. There are huge similarities between the 7 original Shishibukai and the 7 villains of a video game called Romancing Saga 2. Crocodile's counter part is both male and female. I found this a while ago:

http://www.millenniumforums.com/showthread.php?12314-is-this-the-origins-of-the-7-shichibukai

In addition, Crocodile eggs change their gender depending on the temperature. Around 34 °C and above, only males will hatch. Crocodile has got a pretty hot fruit, the Suna Suna no Mi (Sand Fruit, associated with dryness and deserts).

Unfortunately now the bounty have become high numbers that Oda sticks to the characters to pump them, the same way of fighting levels in Dragon Ball.

Just look at Luffy pre timeskip that:

- He is the son of the most wanted man in the world, nephew of the legend of the Navy, adoptive brother of the son of the King of the Pirates

- He defeated two Shichibukai

- Accused of the destruction of Enies Lobby

- Responsible for the biggest escape in the history of ID.

Yet it has a lower bounty than Tamago, which in turn has a bounty higher than all Shichibukai pre timeskip except Mihawk.


Now finally Luffy has a bounty that reflects its value, the problem is that we arrived after high numbers shot at random, see Smoothie.

Please. Tamago is an officer in a Yonkou's crew, and in addition to that he is incredibly well respected within that crew. He's a big shot. (and my favorite side character. Like really really tell me any other person other than Oda that can sell off a teapot-wearing french egg on sticks that transforms into a chicken knight as badass)

Luffy's heritage was hidden to the World until the Marineford War. His Shishibukai defeats were kept under the rug, Smoker defeated Crocodile and no one defeated Moriah. Smoker was promoted for his victory and Moriah died a tragic death in the Marineford War. That's their story.

400 mil in less than a year compared to Tamago's 429 mil after probably decades of pirating.

All the Shishibukai where it was revealed so far got invited either incredibly early into their pirate (captain) careers or immediately after making an huge impact on the world (Buggy and Teach), with two exceptions that didn't get invited at all (Kuma and Doflamnigo)

- Crocodile got invited before challenging and losing to Whitebeard in the New World. (Source: SBS)
- Hancock got her first bounty on her first pirate trip and was invited into the Shishibukai before her bounty was raised again.
- Buggy got invited immediately after revealing himself as a legendary pirate with 200 followers from Instagramm Impel Down.
- Jinbe got invited soon after becoming Captain of the Sun Pirates.
- Weevil became a Shishibukai in less than two years of pirating
- Law was a Super Rookie
- Teach got invited after presenting Ace to to the World Government, revealing himself to the world as a dangerous pirate
- Ace got invited and declined before joining Whitebeard.

- Kuma made some kind of deal with the government that involves turning himself into a cyborg, eventually losing conciousness, and replicating (probably cloning) him.
- Doflamingo bargained himself into the Shishibukai after taking the Celestial Tributes and because he know's the national secret of Mariejois and they couln't kill him.

We don't know at what time of their careers Moriah and Mihawk became Shishibukai, but Moriah is heavily implied to have a similar history like Crocodile, challenging and losing to Kaido instead.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I'm pretty much in agreement with what you're saying. I just think the likelihood of a weakling accumulating a reputation of wreaking havoc left and right is very very low - they would've already been captured/killed if they were weak. Especially since they've continued to elude capture after already having Committed many crimes and making many powerfulenemies. On the flip side, someone very skilled may not yet have had a chance to prove themselves, so they wouldnt yet receive the respect that they may have the potential to earn. And no, bounty is not a measure of pure physical strength. You could call it advantage which is purely situational. I mean one of the things that makes luffy so dangerous is his luck (which was foreshadowed by Hawkins and fujitora). At the same time pure physical strength is more a measure of how big of rocks you can lift and shouldnt be equated with winning every fight/succeeding in every endeavor.

I definitely don't advocate using bounties as a way to end power level discussions, but to ignore them just because they're not absolute is a wasted opportunity. They give us one of the few actual measures of a characters... resume as you say.

The means by which an incident is pulled off isn't only by strength is what we shouldn't forget, something we need to consider. Luck is always a factor and then it could be intelligence, it could be access to a powerful weapon, it could be having insiders or having a huge fleet. Bege for example isn't exactly the strongest, I think most would beat him in close-combat or when it comes to a battle of strength, but he assassinates, he uses wit, intelligence, planning and such to achieve his goals.

The fact that they're not absolute more or less implies all they bring to the table in terms of power levels is assumptions. A resume doesn't detail attributes, just assumptions which is why they're really not reliable to determine strength. I wouldn't call it a wasted opportunity. Only way to really determine strength is to see the person fight or hear of their fighting ability a la Weevil who only has a bounty of 480 mill, yet strength similar to Whitebeard in his youth? Who with a bounty of 500m has been said to have strength similar to any Emperor? More so the strongest Emperor to ever exist after Roger?

I think what cripples understanding of Bounty is that many have been sold a misconception from so early on in the series that they never really questioned it and passively accepted what they were told without verifying. People don't like being told what they've believed for years could possibly be wrong and will cling on to it. For me, I guess background in science is why I'm always willing to challenge any position I hold, otherwise, I'd also believe bounty and strength are correlated.

 

[M3J]

It was in one of the SBS, I'm sure of that. probably around the Skypea or Water 7 Saga. But to my knowledge it was at least double.

Anyways I think the reason why Crocodile's bounty is so low is because "Sir" Crocodile didn't exist that long before becoming a Shishibukai. There are huge similarities between the 7 original Shishibukai and the 7 villains of a video game called Romancing Saga 2. Crocodile's counter part is both male and female. I found this a while ago:

So basically, old news and that Crocodile if we take current writing into account could have had over 300 million berries, and that he was considered to have under 200 mil around Water 7 because Oda didn't think of having high bounties just yet.

Crocodile likely had a low bounty because he became a shichibukai either pretty quickly or was good at being low-key enough. It'd be interesting to know what incidents he's been part in that got him his bounty and made the WG entrust him with the shichibukai position.