Shounen Claymore by Norihiro Yagi

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

To me love, affection, companionship has brought nothing but joy to the Claymores. Teresa found a daughter in Clare. Miria found an elder sister in Hilda. Helen and Deneve share a close kinship. Galatea found comfort in the presence of the orphan church children. Reflecting back on that day when Teresa died, even Irene admitted that she was deeply envious of what Teresa had found with Clare. In a sense, love did soften Teresa's resolve but by her own testimony, Teresa's heart and mind had died a long time ago. You could say that the daughter's love she found in Clare resurrected her soul.

I know that our protagonist Clare and her compatriot Miria are driven by guilt to avenge their loved ones. However, would you say that the guilt is driven by love or by despair?

All of this is actually boiled down to:

"finding/obtaining their humanity or being human"

Raki causes Isley+Priscilla to temporarily be "human"

Luciela temporarily find her humanity again when she cries for her beloved younger sister Rafaela

Riful (and Dauf) are shown to have some morsel of humanity in their deep-true "Romeo&Juliet" love for each other.

Teresa found her desparately desired humanity from/thanks to Clare

Raki returned Clare to being human, both meanings. Clare was very cold and ruthless in the beginning of the manga (like Rafaela was ruthless), killing her own friend with hardly any emotion (though Raki did Clare's crying/emotion for her/symbolically for her), and then Raki changed her back into the "weak" (soft/caring) hearted Clare (which Clare hates and can never forgive, lol). Also, the literal meaning, with him helping to motivate Clare to de-Awaken, preventing her from becoming an Awakened in the Rabona cathedral (that would sure have been a disaster for Rabona!, lol. If Rabona thought it had problems with the "Super" normal yoma, with Agatha, and with the Yoma Assault... imagine a fully Awakened Clare on the rampage, lol!!!) and also causing her to become a HA too in the process.

etc.. etc...

-------------------

Claymore is extremely deep and professional/sophisticated literature.

1. It asks huge philosophical questions:

what is human? what is it to be human? what is wrong/evil? what is right/good? Are humans good or evil? are humans monsters (Yomas)? are humans angels ("Claymores")? are humans both good and evil, both Yoma-monster and Claymore-angel? Do humans in the real world, constantly make decisions on good vs evil with every situation/choice/decision that comes up in our lives? Do we choose to be a good claymore or do we choose to be an evil yoma, when confronted with such a choice of action? Do all humans have a "Claymore" (perpensity to do good) and a "Yoma" (perpensity to do evil) inside of them? Are the Yomas really the monsters, are the Claymores monsters, and/or are the humans (like the bandits..) monsters? Are the Yomas really worse/more evil/more monsters than the Claymores or humans? Is there really any difference between the Claymores, humans, and Yomas? Are there bad and good humans in Claymore manga? Are there bad and good Claymores in the Claymore manga? Are there bad and good Yomas in the Claymore manga? How about the real world with all the different types of people or their affiliations/groups (political, social, religious, and etc)? what makes someone a monster? what is a monster? who's really the "yoma" (monster) in the Claymore manga? Does a small act of good or "humanity" forgive all the bad and evil one has done? If one has been bad and evil all their lives, but have a small niche or act where they do good or are humane, are they to be considered ultimately as good people or bad people when they die? And theirs and our struggle with good and evil, doing what is right or doing what is wrong. Our struggles of every moment in our lives with whether we become "Yomas" or are able to resist it and stay as "Claymores" or "humans". etc etc etc..

2. All of this, has been brought up in literature before, such as the famous Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. However, Yagi with his Claymore manga, takes this and symbolizes it literally, with the Claymores on the crossroads between good and evil, between staying a Claymore/human or turning into a Yoma/monster. Yagi literally merges the wretch and Dr. Frankenstein into the same body in his Claymore manga. Yagi takes this inner fight we have every day with choosing to do what is right and what is wrong, and manifests it physically in the representation of the Claymores, and their outside-physical-literal struggle with resisting physically-actually becoming monsters/Yomas. The inner fight we all have between whether we do good or evil with our consciousnessi is pulled outside and manifested physically by Yagi in his Claymore manga. Absolute brilliance! Yagi is an incredible writer/story teller/teacher!

 

[Fê - forever alone]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Love has trully saved them, but in the end, love also has killed most of them.

Just take a look at Priscilla, Teresa, Miria, Easley, Riful and Dauf. Their love and feelings brought death upon themselves, though it's true that love made them happy for a while.

That's why I said that Claymore in some ways can be seen as a story about love and it's effects, all effects. While love “saves” a soul, it reaps a life than what's left for those who stayed? There's no more love, only hate, wich was brought because of love. Clare and Priscilla are the best example for this kind of point of view. They loved so much that when they were took from them, Priscilla and Clare just lost it all. One turned into a mentally instable and easily manipulated child with great power. The other swore revenge and was losing herself until Raki saved her – with love.
---

And I agree with HK, Claymore is much more than girls killing monsters to save humanity. I can see the awaking process almost like the acceptance of who you trully are. We never saw Riful as a warrior, but she did show us that she enjoyed to be a monster, though she didn't consider her as one. The monstruosity is in the eyes of the observer, everyone is monster, everyone is human and everyone is good and evil.

The awakening could be also intepreted and poorly comparted to Plato's cave, where you discover the world by discovering yourself, and then you interact with it by knowing and acknowledging your true self and interacting with it. You are what you are and should be able to live in peace with yourself...

There are so many things that Claymore brings us, there are so many reflexions in it. I can't see all of these things in other mangas I read – besides Berserk.

What concerns me is that it haven't been finished yet, so all this greatness could be lost with a single mistake. Hope not, lol.

 

[ZERO PHOENIX]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I don't think I interpret the manga in the same way you do HegemonKhan. Granted Yagi is a great writer but to compare the themes and ideas of Claymore to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is just a bit of an exaggeration. I doubt any of us are going to be talking about Claymore some 30 or 40 years from now let alone a century or more. That's like comparing Harry Potter to the Illiad, it just doesn't work. Claymore does provide some interesting moral dilemmas but it doesn't do too much different from many of the other works that are already out there.

Also, I don't think some of the questions you raised are made out to be all that complicated in the manga. For example:

What is human?
In the world of Claymore it seems humans are weak, cowardly, ignorant people. Not a very flattering image but it still hits home for many.


What is it to be human?
Embracing our weaknesses and our strengths.


What is wrong/evil? What is right/good?
I had to school half a dozen n00bs in the Naruto forums yesterday. I'm not touching this topic today.


"Are humans good or evil?"
Both


"Are humans monsters (Yomas)?"
About 50/50. I like to believe in the goodness of mankind but I'm proved wrong more often than not with regards to Man's moral standing.


"Are humans angels ("Claymores")?"
No.


"Are humans both good and evil, both Yoma-monster and Claymore-angel?"
Yes, humans are both good and evil. Claymore's cannot be compared to angels because they are hardly angelic in any sense of the word. Beautiful yes, but it takes more than beauty. The Claymores are warriors, let's not make this deeper than it actually is.


"Do humans in the real world, constantly make decisions on good vs evil with every situation/choice/decision that comes up in our lives?"
Yes, everyday.


"Do we choose to be a good claymore or do we choose to be an evil yoma, when confronted with such a choice of action?"
Whereas all yoma are evil, all Claymores are not inherently good.


"Do all humans have a "Claymore" (perpensity to do good) and a "Yoma" (perpensity to do evil) inside of them?"
I think that's just slightly reversed. The question is do Claymores and Yoma have human perpensity to do good or evil. In the case of yoma they do not.


"Are the Yomas really the monsters, are the Claymores monsters, and/or are the humans (like the bandits..) monsters?"
Yomas are monsters. Claymore and humans can go either way.


"Are the Yomas really worse/more evil/more monsters than the Claymores or humans?"
Well yomas eat people so...


"Is there really any difference between the Claymores, humans, and Yomas?"
Yes.


"Are there bad and good humans in Claymore manga? Are there bad and good Claymores in the Claymore manga?"
Yes.


"Are there bad and good Yomas in the Claymore manga?"
They are all irredeemably evil. The only good yoma is a dead one.


"How about the real world with all the different types of people or their affiliations/groups (political, social, religious, and etc)?"
It's fairly obvious there are good and evil people in the world no matter where they are from or what their lot in life is.


"What makes someone a monster?"
When a person adheres to a life of evil and sin.


"What is a monster?"
A person who adheres to a life of evil and sin.


"Who's really the "yoma" (monster) in the Claymore manga?"
Well the yoma would be one guess but if I were to go out on a limb, I would say whoever fired the first shot on the mainland. If the war never started in the first place, then the organization would have never come into existence and the rest of these events would never have happened. Find out who started the war and you probably have your monster. Of course, we'll need to find out the "reasons" the war started to begin with as well.


"Does a small act of good or "humanity" forgive all the bad and evil one has done?"
Depends on the reasons that act is done. If a person sacrifices his own life to save another for the purpose of life and goodness itself then yes that good act can cancel out the evil one has done. If however a person sacrifices himself for no other reason than to be remembered by future generations, if vanity is the motive then no. A good act, stemming from the wrong reasons is still tainted.


"If one has been bad and evil all their lives, but have a small niche or act where they do good or are humane, are they to be considered ultimately as good people or bad people when they die?"
See above explanation.


"And theirs and our struggle with good and evil, doing what is right or doing what is wrong. Our struggles of every moment in our lives with whether we become "Yomas" or are able to resist it and stay as "Claymores" or "humans". etc etc etc.."
OK I see what you were going for and I commend your enthusiasm but the work is hardly THAT insightful. Yagi is a great writer and he does address a number of moral issues but there's hardly anything here that warrants such intrigue. Sometimes we try hard to find some deeper meaning beneathe the surface and sometimes there simply isn't one. Or not as many as some might be led to believe. An organization conducted human experiments to create weapons to win a war. That's it. Now, if you pointed to the ethical, political, and scientific dilemmas in the world of Claymore then your argument would have a much more stable ground, but alleging that the work raises the question of living as the Claymore or yoma in all of us is, well, stretching it to say the very least.

---

I wanted to address some elements of your post as well Forever Alone.

"I can see the awaking process almost like the acceptance of who you trully are."

Nice but that would mean all Claymores are monsters. I mean after all when they awaken they turn into beasts with a voracious appetite for destruction and carnage. Even the more civilized AO aren't any different because they are still slaves to their own power. Isley, Riful, Luciella, none of them could have been satisfied with their lives for much longer and even if Isley didn't make his move, one of the other two would have. The Will to Power compels them to do so. Those who have power will use that power to acquire those things they wish to have. So if awakening is the acceptance of who one truly is, then all of the Claymores would have to accept that they are all without exception blood thirsty carrion birds.


"We never saw Riful as a warrior, but she did show us that she enjoyed to be a monster, though she didn't consider her as one."

Riful was a nut. If she came to terms with who she was then she should have been something different. Sometimes coming to terms with who and what you are, also means showing the initiative to change and become who and what you should be. Riful was weak. Whether it was the fact that she embraced the animal, the monster that she was or if she let the organization trick her into thinking she was a monster, either way the blame is on her shoulders. I'm not giving some wigged out sadist any props. Riful's only redeeming quality is that she died. Mad-ups to Priscilla on that one.


"The monstrousity is in the eyes of the observer, everyone is monster, everyone is human and everyone is good and evil."

That is, in no way I can see, true. A person knows a monster when they see one. In most cases the only person who doesn't know a monster when they see one is the monster themselves which tends to be rather ironic. Point to me any character in Claymore whose personality and nature you cannot discern and I'll iron out all the wrinkles. The AO, without one single exception were all monsters and should be seen as such regards of who is looking at them. The AO are conquerors who in addition killing innocent people, also command other awakened beings to do their bidding. Isley, Riful, and Luciella all fit this bill. It doesn't take much for me to separate the wolves from the sheep.


"The awakening could be also intepreted and poorly comparted to Plato's cave, where you discover the world by discovering yourself, and then you interact with it by knowing and acknowledging your true self and interacting with it. You are what you are and should be able to live in peace with yourself..."

Well your argument is derailed here isn't it? Technically, logically speaking, none of the Claymore's are who they are supposed to be. They've all endured trauma usually caused in part by the organization, their minds and their bodies have been manipulated by the organization and we see the results. The Clare we see is NOT the Clare we are supposed to see. Likewise the Black Ones should have never existed, they should only have been Alicia and Beth Zema. The Claymore DON'T discover they true selves by awakening because their true shelves where destroyed or at least warped by the organization long ago. That's a moot point though and this approach can simply be countered by what I already said above. Awakening is not some form of acceptance, it's not acknowledging who a person is. Awakening is actually submitting to the negativity and evil with oneself.

Let's look at the other side of the coin shall we. You think awakening is some form of acceptance, a coming out of the cave. I think you are wrong. Nothing good has ever come from any of the Claymore's awakening. Nothing. So if anything the work already contradicts your argument. If awakening is a form of accpetance then all the Claymores need to accept that they are monsters. Thus, your position only serves to strengthen my argument and weaken your own. If anything awakening symbolizes corruption. Or have you forgotten? The organization and the Claymore know that awakening is caused by an overflow of yoki. Yoki is power, the batteries the Claymore's run on. When awakening a Claymore accesses too much yoki and can't make the flow of it stop. You might think of this as greed in the case of someone intentionally awakening or excess where someone awakens by mistake. Either way, it is submission to one's own darkness.

As I said above yoki is power. Power corrupts. When Claymore access too much yoki they awaken. When a person gets a hold of too much power they tend to become corrupted. The awakening is not some adolescent coming to terms, awakening is corruption in its most obvious form. Do you know why most Claymore's resist awakening? Do you know why even after partially awakening the Ghosts still struggle to maintain their current form? Because they are struggling with the very real possibility that their power will one day corrupt them.

The Claymore's don't seem to be struggling with coming into themselves Forever Alone. Perhaps that is your interpretation but that's not the vibe I got from the likes of Miria, Galatea, Deneve, Helen, Yuma, Flora, Ophelia, Priscilla, Irene, Clarice, I need a character sheet. In fact it seems to me that your argument might only apply to Teresa and no one else. Awakening is not a form of self-acceptance. Awakening is submission to ones darkness. Awakening is not a coming out of the cave. Awakening is a falling into the abyss.


"There are so many things that Claymore brings us, there are so many reflexions in it. I can't see all of these things in other mangas I read – besides Berserk."

Well you're right here.

 

[baboysai]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

well if I might add,

Male vs Female.

This manga is so girl-power it leaves me quite perplexed how guys can continue to read this. hehe.

Then there's the thing about why there were no successful male claymores was because they could easily get corrupted by the yoma blood and turn yoma themselves.

I dunno about guys but I as a girl just love reading this, making the males all weak. The only strong one here was Isley. I should not even mention Raki in the same sentence as Isley...

 

[ZERO PHOENIX]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Haha, I read it because of all the HAWT Claymores. Kidding, although that helps. I like Claymore because it's much more mature than trash like Naruto or Bleach. I also like the medieval horror setting which we don't see very often.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

a few points/comments by me:

1. in christianity: angels are warriors too. heck, the "perfect" heaven and its angels had wars just like imperfect earth and us humans do. Lucifer and his followers against Gabriel and the rest of the angels, driving out lucifer and his followers from heaven down to the earth. it seems God made angels and heaven just as imperfect as he made man and the earth.

2. love is a part of what i referenced as "humanity", "being human", and "finding humanity". I didn't mean to come across as ignoring or separating love in my previous post, as being able to love vs not, is a huge measurement of whether one is a "human" or a "monster".

being able to love is unversally associated with being human (a "good/righteous" human, the quality of a "good/righteous" human)

love is the path seen for Yomas to return to their humanity, being human, if only briefly, they still are human through their feelings or show of love.

now, Zero Phoenix, if I understood him, does not see any of the Yomas as somewhat redeemable as being human/forgiven, despite their niches/acts of love. it is hard to see them as human despite their niche/acts of love with all the wrong, evil, and suffering they have caused. so, I can defintately understand Zero phoenix being completely unforgivable and thus always seeing Yomas as the "bad guys" or as the "monsters". again if I understood him correctly, that is.

myself, I'm still in decision. I'm not sure how to decide myself. if a small or sparse act of love can over-ride causing many to suffer or not. it's a very good philosophical question that I've don't have an answer for myself yet.

if you can't love, you can't be human (I think everyone agrees with this, that it is a unversal concept), but does a small or sparse niche or act of love, compare or exceed/override all the evil, wrong, harm, and suffering that let's say you've caused to others, to make you "human" or not?

3. all (good) stories have both a shallow/surface story and a deeper/complex/sophisticated story underneath. Poetry is the simpliest/clearest example of this. Our human language itself is an example of this as well. humans are able to understand symbolism, deeper and hidden meanings. That's what makes a story good, it has an endless amount of deeper stories or themes within it, for you to keep discovering each time you read it. Claymore is such a great story! Everytime I re-read it or read what others' post, I learn something new from it, that I had never realized before!

I seriously easily put Yagi and his Claymore manga right along Shakespeare and other classical works. Claymore is truly an extroadinary piece of literature, of how he took age-old themes and re-invented them, by taking them and manifesting them into out-wardly direct physical changes. Absolutely brilliant! Give Yagi the credit he deserves!

4. Also, so what that Yomas eat humans? Humans eat cows, pigs, chickens, fish, plants, even "babies" too (seeds/fruit/eggs), and etc. Are we thus evil too? Lions eat gazelles, are lions evil? cows eat grass, are cows evil? Insects eat plants, are they evil? humans eat plants, are we evil? In fact, ALL LIFE IS CANNABALISTIC! Everything that life eats is another living organism! LIFE EATS LIFE TO SURVIVE. So, is all life evil in its struggle to survive, in its struggle to not die of starvation?

5. baboysai:

I obviously don't speak for other males. but for me, as a male, I obviously like an attractive opposite gender (an attractive female), and as a male I live in the male world of power and force, so as a male I respect power and force, action and "ass-kicking". Well, these female Claymores are obviously attractive opposite genders, so that makes me love Claymore and its mostly female cast. Also, these female Claymores aren't merely "eye candy/fanservice damsels in distress", they KICK-ASS, and this I love as well, female or male, so this too makes Claymore awesome! I like heroism, action, and "Ass-kicking", and it has nothing to do with whether they are male or female. I like, respect, and admire "ass-kicking", even if it's done by a female. Action and "ass-kicking" is action and "ass-kicking". Heck, I actually like females doing the action and "ass-kicking" better, as they also got the sex appeal/attractiveness along with their heroism of action and "ass-kicking". I'll take a female lead role as a heroine anyday over a male lead role as a hero!

what's sexier then attractive females? attractive females who can "kick-ass" too (as long as it's not your rear end, LOL)!

it's like a dream come true combining females into lead roles for me. I get my "Fanservice/eye-candiness" through the attractive female, and my desired interest/love of action/"ass-kicking"/heroism through the attractive female as well.

in movies, before they realized this, they had to have a male actor as the lead character to provide us males with our wanted/desired action, and then had a female attractive merely to provide the "eye candy/fanservice" that we also craved as well.

well, doing it this way, is possibly more expensive (as they need two instead of one person), and extremely degrading to the female actresses as well. merely having her role being a sex object, with her flashes of nudity, sex scene, or "slow-motion busty-bouncing running". As is seen in almost all horror flicks. Doing it this way, just causes us males to be enamored in the female actress as a sex-object, sexy eye-candy/fanservice, instead of causing us to admire and respect the female actress as just as strong and heroic as the male actor's role.

so, the genius, is using a female as the lead role. the female actress is jsut as able to perform the action sequences as any male, and she provides the fanservice/eye-candiness as well, while NOT degrading her, as she is seen as a strong (and sexy) character, independant, kicking-ass, that at least this male greatly RESPECTS as well as being enamored by her beauty too, hehe.

Japanese anime/manga caught on to this, long before our american movies and tv shows finally did.

Yes, the females' body parts are "a bit" exagerrate/unreal, lol. But, frankly, so are the male characters. I certainly don't look like a ripped Goku or ichigo, just as you females don't have as big busts as the female anime/manga characters do. So, it's actually quite fair. I mean how many real guys do you see that look like manga/anime male characters? None of us are as ripped and strong as anime/manga characters too. So, it's depressing/offensive to us as well as it is to females, maybe we just don't voice it, our jealousy of their ripped bodies, as girls do with of the anime/manga female characters' bodies. but, I personally don't find it offensive, as it's fantasy. fantasy characters should have great and perfect bodies. you don't see superman not having muscles, just as you don't see goku or ichigo not having muscles. And it's the same with the female characters. they need their big busts as a show of their "feminine powers/prowess" just as males need their big bulgy muscles as a show of their "masculine powers/prowess". Females should be proud of their bodies, their busts (big or small), just as males should be proud of their bodies, their muscles (and height size), big/tall or not. It's fantasy, we expect to see perfect bodies of both males and females, and it certainly doesn't bother me. I'm quite aware that most real males and females do NOT have such bodies, unfortunately for both us males and you females, lol.

but, despite the exagerated bodies of male and female characters in manga/anime, they usually do have strong and respectable roles to go along with their exagerated looks/bodies. There's so many sexy and strong female characters in manga/anime that I RESPECT/ADMIRE, beyond merely degradingly seeing them merely as eye-candy/fan service. some examples: all the the Claymore girls (Claymore), Revy, Roberta, and Eda (Black Lagoon), Seras Victoria (Hellsing), Saya and Diva Otonashi? (Blood+), the tenhjo tengi girls - Aya and Maya Natsume? - (tenjo tengi), Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell), the Ikkitousen girls (Ikkitousen), the sekirei girls (Sekirei), Rukia and Yoroichi and the other girls (bleach) and many more, hehe (notice that not all of them have exagerrated bodies, but they can "kick-ass", which is also/just as important to me, as is their looks/bodies and/or exagerate looks/bodies)

Also, in the past, females were limited by what they could do as they had to do everything live, but with technology and CG, females can be equal to males doing the same stuff males do. And I'm not saying that males could do anything that we see on CG, lol, but some physical tasks did limit females, but now we got CG, so the physical differences in male and female bodies doesn't mean anything anymore, as movies aren't limited to live action stunts/performances.


I like action, and action is action. Gender has no bearing on action. If there's action, I don't care if its done by a male or female, I just love the action! Well, I prefer sexy girls doing the action of course than a male doing the action, as I'm heterosexual and thus enjoy the visual attractiveness of the female and her grace too in the action compared to males doing action, hehe

Girls' fighting is often more graceful and beautiful, almost like a dance (of death hehe), with more emphasis on finese and skill then mere brute strength, so it's much more appealing to watch (and as anime/manga, the females can have superhuman brute strength as well as being so graceful too)

 

[Fê - forever alone]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Well, you sure didn't understand what I said, lol.But in the end, it's all about point of view. The way I see things may be or may be not the way you see things. Eventhough, I'll write down some of my views.

Any kind of power corrupts? Yeah. But we all saw the AOs can think properly and they think by the own. No one tells them what to do, they do what they want because of something they want. In what kind of ways is that different from a person who has power?

Awakening is acknowledging your true self because you acknowledge that you have darkness in you. But, how will you act knowing this? Jean awakened her body, but she could stand her true self for a time, she could fight her own darkness, and with some help she was able to overcome that darkness. That goes for all HA, they faced their darkness, they acknowledged their obscurity and fight against it, and in the end they were able to retain their “light”, they beat their darkness, but they can never rest because they know they have a dark side, and this dark side can overcome them in any time, because it's their own nature.

Now, there are people who claims not to be a darkside, but I'm not fool enough to say this. My dark side is strong as my “good” side, I only use it when I think I need to. That goes for claymore. Some of them loses themselves in their own darkness. Why? Or they choose to be evil, or they never had the strength to fight against their own evil.

Riful killed innocent beings to survive, as we kill innocent beings to survive. In Claymore world – humans are not the top of chain food, they are just food for who is at the top. Like we – in real world – are at the top and every thing else is just food.

You don't have to agree with me because is just one way that I interpret Claymore. Priscilla have lost herself for her own darkness because she was too unstable to fight ther dark side. Riful – we don't know because it was never shown – could have wanted to awaken. She can bare herself and she doesn't consider her as a monster, but Ophelia does. As a warrior Ophelia was more inhuman than as an AB, but as a AB she considered herself as a monster and choose to die. I mean: what if Riful wanted to be an AB? She does seem look like she loves power and her trueself, she doesn't seem to be worried about what other people think about her, she accepts herself the way she is.

The AB in Pieta said he loved to be a monster, Easley does seem to enjoy what he is, he seems to enjoy what awakening gave him. And besides Luciela, we never seen anyone going berserk after awakening. Clare didn't control her body as HA, but she didn't trully awaken. Priscilla, as crazy as she is, she kept together and she knew her allies, in fact, she just attacked them because she was attacked first.

All I mean, in short, is the awakening is where you know your true self. And then you will turn into a devilish monster, or you will retain your consciouness, or you will be overtaken by the power it gives, or whatever. We already seen that AB and AO doesn't need to eat human flesh, they could eat different types of food, but humans do look like it's more tasty. But again, humans are just food for those who stand at the top of chain food in Claymore world. You can't compare the real world if Claymore world because it's just too different, though all similarities.

Ophelia said she wanted to eat raw meat, Priscilla didn't eat humans for a long time, Easley was able to eat only the necessary – and he stated before that his house at Pieta had a lot of different food/meat. So, awakening is not the end, it's just the beginning of a new life - philosophically speaking – you acknowledge yourself and then act by what you trully are. Are you a monster? You will act as one. Are you a sadist? Same thing. Are you a goody boy/girl? How will you act when you find out what you really are? Will it be the goody boy/girl you think you are? Or will it be something darker?? That's my point.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

one comment:

Riful did NOT want/desire to Awaken into an Awakened. As she realized that in wanting/desiring to Awaken or the power of Awakening, it actually creates an even more powerful Awakening or Awakened, when she saw Clare intentionally, wantingly/desiringly, raise her yoki to 80% or maybe more, becoming more powerful than if it happened by accident or uncontrollably (now as a HA, she of course doesn't actually Awaken and become an Awakened).

I'm not sure if this (that they didn't intentionally Awaken) applies to all of the Awakeneds or just Riful. As it seems to be implied only to the HAs who are capable intentionally Awakening while not letting themselves become Awakeneds. But, I'm not sure. This whole thing is quite a mystery still.

 

[natli]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Something about the Destroyer bothered me for a while. Obviously, it's shape mirrors the image of the twin goddesses of love. In this respect it can be interpreted as their negative reflection, twin sisters of hatred who will destroy the world.

I'm starting to think that Clare's and Teresa'a ultimate fate might be that of Luciela and Rafaela. As in, the Destroyer foreshadows what will happen with Clare at the end of the series. Clare and Teresa's bodies are already merged, and Teresa'a headless body is (probably) kept by Dae. Now, I won't go into detail, how such double awakening can be achieved, because the Claymore world is full of freak experiments. My point is, that Clare and Teresa might become the anti-Destroyer, which will effectively end the war.

 

[Bugzee]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Hey all!

I've been reading Claymore for a good 4 months now and I've progressively developed a keen interest in this particular manga. I was actually initially suprised that it was a shounen. I would've expected this title to be a seinen. Naturally. So yeah, Clare's quite a likeable character. Her character development over the first 10 chapters (and also later on in what was the short flashbacks/ background of her childhood) kinda reminded me of Alice; the girl from Resident Evil. Meh. It's nothing particularly improtant but I'm curious to know if any of you had a similar feeling/thought. If not, then LOL no matter!

I'll hopefully post more in this section in the coming days/weeks/years?

 

[Bowser]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Plato's Cave is about discovering the Form of Good and getting KNOWLEDGE rather than self-discovery - it offers no self-satisfaction whatsoever.

Anyway. Can you imagine? Claymore will be on Chapter 123 by next year...that seems so far away o_o

 

[Bugzee]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Claymore chapters should come out on a weekly basis. I hate monthly releases. T_T

@ Bowser - Yeah, it's definitely a long wait... the way I see it anyway. Here's me hoping that it becomes a weekly release in 2011.. ><

I feel sorry for those who only read Claymore.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Yagi is doing both the writing and the art himself, and personally if the quality of either the story or the art degrades from doing a weekly release, I'm not interested.

A month is a long wait though, I definately agree with that. But, I don't want to lose Claymore's quality just for it to come out sooner. What's the point of a manga coming out soon, if it's trash? Though, I don't see why it can't come out at least every half month, as that would be much more bare'eble (can't spell, V.V) for us, and still would be more time than a week for Yagi. Though, I'm not a writer nor artist and I'm sure no publisher would change to a half month release for it anyways, and also I can certainly understand it taking a month to think of the next chapter's story/plot, write it, and then draw it. That's a lot of work for one person.

 

[wickedsmile]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

To those of you who have done this type of work, how long woud it take to conceptualize the story of one chapter and actually "put it on paper?" Some of the scenes, especially those that take up two pages, look intensely intricate. I can only imagine how long it would have taken Yagi to draw the panel that show Jean's awaken butterfly form. You litterally see all the vains in the wings (coincidently, imho, one of the most beautiful awaken shapes, which professes pure benevolence instead malevolence).

Also, we assume that Yagi spends his entire month penning Claymore. Does he have any contractual obligations to other publications?

ws

 

[Moie]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

idk Yagi's situation but... GET ASSISTANTS
I won't call for a weekly but bi-monthly is quite do-able.

 

[Fê - forever alone]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I'm not going to discuss about Plato's cave here, but everyone knows that philosophy has not only one way to understand/interpretate things.
---

I think Yagi already has assistants.

And about the time demanded to make a page... Well, it depends. If you have a story plot already done, you just have to draw what you already written, but that isn't as easy as it sounds. I think Yagi has already the plot done for a long time, he just changes a few things when his editor/publisher tells him to. It's quite normal. And normally, the authors/mangakas have usually at least three chapters done by the time we read one.

I mean, now it's chapter 111, I bet Yagi has at least the 112, 113 already done, waiting to see if he'll have to change somethings.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I am not an authority on this, as I'm an American living in the U.S. and know nothing of Japan and manga/anime production and such stuff, but the last I heard from other people is that Yagi does all of Claymore manga himself, no assistants. This was some time ago, so maybe he does have assistants now. But, I don't think so, as I think I could recognize a change in quality or type of artwork and writing that would occur if he had assistants do the art or the writing or both. I'm not able to verify at all if this is true or not of what these others have said though.

-------------------------------

If anyone can officially/authoritatively clarify this, it would be greatly appreciated by all of us!

 

[Moie]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Even if he has assistants or not i mean, i know some magazines specialize in monthly releases and if that's the case and maybe he has a contract with them, it could easily be remedied by making longer chapters even if by 10 pages. For mangaka the best thing to do is have chapters done ahead of time for editor review so i think that by changing or at least experimenting with chapter length, he can up his ratings AND provide more per months making readers feel more satisfied however, there's always the chapter plot according to the length to consider...

 

[rcfalcon]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I think I'd rather read a well crafted, thought out 30+ pages once a month than 10 or so pages thrown together hasitily to meet a deadline. The quality would suck, IMO. I know other authors do it but I can also recognize "filler" episodes while the author lets a particular plot device gel in his/her head before publication. Waiting a month between episodes is hard, but worth it I think.

 

[Goral]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

On Animesuki someone has written that Claymore sales are steadily dropping. After some digging here's what I've found:

As I've said before the sale for last 6-7 volumes have been steadly decreasing but it's the same for manga like rosario + vampire who's last volume barely broke into the top 20 on it's frist week. (...)

No they're not, stop making things up (or at least show some ratings to back you up). I've checked Oricon rankings before and the sales of Claymore volumes are steady, over 200 000/volume (358 000 average for volumes 1-17 but it's not surprising that first 5-10 volumes would have better sales if only for the fact they've been around for 5-10 years now). And comparing it to other Jump SQ titles it looks like this:

Claymore (1~17) = 6,100,000
Tegami Bachi (1~11) = 4,000,000
Rosario to Vampire (1~10, 1~8) = 3,000,000
Masuda Kousuke Gekijou Gag Manga Biyori (1~10) = 4,000,000
Shiki (1~7) = 1,100,000
Tennis no Oujisama (1~42, 1~4) = 45,000,000
Ao no Exorcist (1~5) = 1,800,000
D.Gray-man (1~20) = 20,000,000
Kakkokawaii Sengen! (1) = 180,000
To Love-Ru (1~18) = 7,000,000

And BTW, Claymore was supposed to have colour page(s) in May issue so we should get at least one.

Also, newest volume of Claymore published in US (i.e. 17) is one of the best selling mangas according to NYT which isn't that odd since people from many countries import it (I know two people who have all or almost all volumes from Viz, one has 17 the other 15 and they don't import anything else).

And the latest ranking I could find was this (from about December 6-13th):

1. Shingeki no Kyojin #3, (185,674)(Bessatsu Shonen Magazine)
2. Bleach #48, (173,224/635,378)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
3. D.Gray-man #21, (148,236/363,413)(Jump SQ)
4. Gintama #37, (134,298/322,916)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
5. Katekyo Hitman Reborn! #32, (121,456/302,216)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
6. Claymore #19, (76,466/167,037)(Jump SQ)
7. Vampire Knight #13, (64,386/140,189)(LaLa)
8. Kuroko no Basuke #10, (60,111/135,419)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
9. Sket Dance #16, (58,315/135,141)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
10. Drop #12, (54,420)(Monthly Shonen Champion)

And in a November 29-December 5 period of time it sold in over 90 thousand copies (Claymore was 9th then). So in about two weeks it sold in over 167 thousand copies, it's not bad if you ask me considering that it had just been released then.

In ranking June 28th - July 4th vol. 18th Claymore sold in 100 thousand copies (little more than that), Ranking July 5th – July 11th 82,014 (182 180 including previous week).

In rankings 11/9 - 11/15 17th volume it looked like this:

1. Naruto volume 47 (150,481/932,100)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
2. Angel Heart volume 31 (132,183)(Comic Bunch)
3. Gintama volume 31 (83,337/348,232)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
4. Bakuman. volume 5 (59,070/277,821)(Weekly Shonen Jump)
5. Claymore volume 17 (49,572/195,594)(Jump SQ)

Claymore 15th from December 2nd - December 15th sold in 189 023 copies (so worse than vol. 17 in the same amount of time but mind you it's only 2 weeks).

Claymore 16th from April 27th-May 10th in 181,233 copies (again, worse than 17th and worse than 18th).

Can't find rankings for anything earlier than volume 15th but as you can see Claymore sales are rather steady and you can't say that their dropping. In 3 weeks they sell in over 200 000 copies each and overall every volume at over 300 000.