Fantasy Current Erza VS Current Mirajane

[Plutogrim]

Erza with no magic power can take down Mirajane in her Alegria Soul.

Erza stomp.

 

[Natsu Goatneel]

Erza wins but just wanna say discredit EVERY feat from the Irene battle as Erza was heavily boosted by Wendy with PIS and POF on her side the entire fight. Only use feats from the Ajeel fight as she was 100% and we saw then where she stood powerwise with no PIS.

 

[LaGOAT]

Erza wins but just wanna say discredit EVERY feat from the Irene battle as Erza was heavily boosted by Wendy with PIS and POF on her side the entire fight. Only use feats from the Ajeel fight as she was 100% and we saw then where she stood powerwise with no PIS.

Remember she was restricted vs ajeel at the beginning of the fight because she couldn't requip properly

 

[TakeoverSatanSoul]

Now come to see who wins?
Both are unrestricted and in their current forms.Who wins?

Location:Magnolia
Intel:Full

Man, It’s sad to see people underatting Mirajane, look at the facts;
Mirajane absorbed the soul Seliah? Correct. (That alone could one shot K.O. Really anyone,)
She also gained her curse from absorbing that soul,
She also absorbed the other souls into the form she calls, “Alegria,”
And just like it we can see that she’d have the curses of Tartaros! And we’ve already been told,
Curse>Magic
So, even if Erza switches to Nakagami, Mira has the curses of Tartaros demons, while Nakagami negates magic, it doesn’t do anything against Curses, I’m assuming why Erza didn’t use it during that Arc, so if it comes down to Nakagami and Alegria, Mirajane takes the victory with a landslide and what difficulty?

Serious Mira: Mid-Diff
Mira: High/Extreme-Diff

Only way I see Erza winning is if she’d had a blade that is effective against Demons, like the one she has for dragons,

WINNER: MIRAJANE

 

[Kouichi]

Erza wins low diff. But just so you know, Lucy isn't stomping Miralegria TYSM.

 

[Jko]

One word: Macro

 

[Axiomus]

I don't see why Macro would be a game changer against Erza if it wasn't a significant factor against Juliette and Heine. Mirajane had to go all out with Alegria Soul to take these two out, and the effort wiped out most of her magic power. At the end of the day, Juliette and Heine were just random swords that Irene enchanted on a whim. Neinhart was actually enchanted to deal with Erza. Erza was so strong that all of the historia summoned against her were simply too afraid to fight her, so Irene enchanted Neinhart to be so powerful that Brandish's magic doesn't even affect her. That's a Spriggan 12 member enchanted to the point where he could no-sell the powers of another Spriggan 12's hax. And let's be honest, Neinhart probably wouldn't have been enough to take down Erza. Erza was blocking hits from END-Natsu and Gray, smashed the meteor that Irene summoned as a dragon, and shocked Irene out of her dragon form. Compared to how Irene had zero difficulty toying around with Mirajane, I really can't see this fight as being competitive.

And just like it we can see that she’d have the curses of Tartaros! And we’ve already been told,
Curse>Magic

Curses are not stronger than magic. There are at least 15 magic using characters that would solo every curse user in the series combined.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Curses are not stronger than magic. There are at least 15 magic using characters that would solo every curse user in the series combined.

not really fair comparing characters that train while demons don't and using post skip characters.

Acnologia of Magic (PL 10,000) vs Acnologia of Curse (10,000) - Acnologia of Curse would win

 

[Takuan]

Wait, two years later are we still debating that?

Well Axiomus said it all.

 

[Jko]

Kyouka's hax still f-ed up Erza therefore Macro is still a viable option. Erza also got beat out by hypnosis which is a weaker control hax than macro.

Also not sure why we are comparing Heine and Juliette's fight with her. She didn't even try to use macro on them and went straight to a oneshot. Not to mention those two are Irene's creations which means she probably imbued them with the means to stop such hax just like she did to Neinhart.

Y'all going to have to show feats of Erza being to resist macro when she's been hax-ed out multiple battles.

Also Mira not using her hax was bcs Mashima doesn't like to use hax in a battle since it's not as "cool" as a straight up battle. Mira not using her hax can be chalked up to CIS. A lot of CIS was used in the Alvarez arc to stop hax-ier opponents from competently using their hax.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2019 ---

Neinhart is trash so he had to be enhanced bcs any decent mage on Ishgar's side could oneshot him as well.

Anyways Erza has no counter to this.

 

[Axiomus]

not really fair comparing characters that train while demons don't and using post skip characters.

Acnologia of Magic (PL 10,000) vs Acnologia of Curse (10,000) - Acnologia of Curse would win

It's completely fair because all demons have been around for 400 years, and could train if they wanted to. Besides most of the characters I am talking about I am talking about didn't really needed to train. At least not specifically. Acnologia became as powerful as he did because of his dragon slaying magic. If he had curses instead of his dragon slaying magic, he wouldn't be Acnologia. He is quite literally the dragon of magic.

 

[Demon Hunter]

It's completely fair because all demons have been around for 400 years, and could train if they wanted to. Besides most of the characters I am talking about I am talking about really needed to train. At least not specifically. Acnologia became as powerful as he did because of his dragon slaying magic. If he had curses instead of his dragon slaying magic, he wouldn't be Acnologia. He is quite literally the dragon of magic.

but they didn't and you didn't catch my point but whatever.

Mirajane still wins.

 

[Axiomus]

Kyouka's hax still f-ed up Erza therefore Macro is still a viable option. Erza also got beat out by hypnosis which is a weaker control hax than macro.

Also not sure why we are comparing Heine and Juliette's fight with her. She didn't even try to use macro on them and went straight to a oneshot. Not to mention those two are Irene's creations which means she probably imbued them with the means to stop such hax just like she did to Neinhart.

Y'all going to have to show feats of Erza being to resist macro when she's been hax-ed out multiple battles.

Also Mira not using her hax was bcs Mashima doesn't like to use hax in a battle since it's not as "cool" as a straight up battle. Mira not using her hax can be chalked up to CIS. A lot of CIS was used in the Alvarez arc to stop hax-ier opponents from competently using their hax.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2019 ---

Neinhart is trash so he had to be enhanced bcs any decent mage on Ishgar's side could oneshot him as well.

Anyways Erza has no counter to this.

Kyouka's hax was only a factor against Tartarus arc Erza. Post-timeskip, when Erza fought Kyouka's historia, Kyouka's hax never played a factor. Also, Kyouka is stronger than Seilah. Neinhart was never trash to begin with. He had Spriggan level magical power, which means his hax would have operated on a higher level than pretty much any other character prior to the timeskip. Erza was so strong that the Neinhart's Spriggan level magic simply dissipated. Kyria's hypnosis isn't weaker than macro. If Kyria is as strong as Madmole or Skarion, she would oneshot anybody in Tartarus.

Irene never imbued Neinhart with a specific magic to counter hax-magic. Not all hax magic are the same anyways. "Hax" isn't really a type of magic. It's a fan-made term. So it's not like it makes any sense for there to be a type of magic that makes someone "immune to all hax magic". Irene would have had to had a specific counter to each type of hax magic, and enchanting Neinhart like this would have been pretty dumb considering Erza has no magic that would be considered hax. Irene simply enchanted Neinhart to be more powerful. As we've seen with Brandish and Dimaria, their powers stop working against someone significantly stronger than them.

Juliette and Heine's fight with Mirajane is relevant because Mirajane decided it was necessary to go all out against these 2 and ended up using up nearly all of her magic power. If Mirajane could have taken out these 2 with Macro, something that is significantly less taxing, then she would have done so. The fact that macro was never a factor against Wall, Jacob, Juliette, Heine, or Irene means it's unlikely to be a factor against Erza here - who is arguably stronger than everyone Mirajane has ever fought, except for Irene. One last thing: Erza is faster than Mirajane on the draw. Assuming macro even works on Erza, Mirajane would first need to transform in order to use it. Erza could very well simply blitz Mirajane with her fists before this happens.

but they didn't and you didn't catch my point but whatever.

Mirajane still wins.

Sorry, I meant to say that most of the characters I am talking about didn't really need to train on-screen. In fact, the only magic-based character that needed to train on my list of 15 was Natsu, and he trained for a year. For the record, the 15 characters are Acnologia, Igneel, Ignia, Mercfovia, the remaining 3 dragon gods, the other 4 dragon parents, Zeref, August, Irene, and Natsu. These 15 characters at their strongest would solo every curse user in the series. This isn't even accounting for the Spriggans, who each individually outclass Tartarus. Then there's the people who have beaten the Spriggans, which includes Erza. While Erza may not be strong enough to solo every curse user in the series, she can still probably take out END-Natsu in a 1v1. Even if you want to argue that curse users are stronger than magic users if they have the same power level, Erza and Mirajane don't have the same power-level to begin with. Erza is taking on opponents far stronger than Mirajane is capable of.

 

[Jko]

Kyouka's hax was only a factor against Tartarus arc Erza. Post-timeskip, when Erza fought Kyouka's historia, Kyouka's hax never played a factor. Also, Kyouka is stronger than Seilah. Neinhart was never trash to begin with. He had Spriggan level magical power, which means his hax would have operated on a higher level than pretty much any other character prior to the timeskip. Erza was so strong that the Neinhart's Spriggan level magic simply dissipated. Kyria's hypnosis isn't weaker than macro. If Kyria is as strong as Madmole or Skarion, she would oneshot anybody in Tartarus.

Irene never imbued Neinhart with a specific magic to counter hax-magic. Not all hax magic are the same anyways. "Hax" isn't really a type of magic. It's a fan-made term. So it's not like it makes any sense for there to be a type of magic that makes someone "immune to all hax magic". Irene would have had to had a specific counter to each type of hax magic, and enchanting Neinhart like this would have been pretty dumb considering Erza has no magic that would be considered hax. Irene simply enchanted Neinhart to be more powerful. As we've seen with Brandish and Dimaria, their powers stop working against someone significantly stronger than them.

Juliette and Heine's fight with Mirajane is relevant because Mirajane decided it was necessary to go all out against these 2 and ended up using up nearly all of her magic power. If Mirajane could have taken out these 2 with Macro, something that is significantly less taxing, then she would have done so. The fact that macro was never a factor against Wall, Jacob, Juliette, Heine, or Irene means it's unlikely to be a factor against Erza here - who is arguably stronger than everyone Mirajane has ever fought, except for Irene. One last thing: Erza is faster than Mirajane on the draw. Assuming macro even works on Erza, Mirajane would first need to transform in order to use it. Erza could very well simply blitz Mirajane with her fists before this happens.



Sorry, I meant to say that most of the characters I am talking about didn't really need to train on-screen. In fact, the only magic-based character that needed to train on my list of 15 was Natsu, and he trained for a year. For the record, the 15 characters are Acnologia, Igneel, Ignia, Mercfovia, the remaining 3 dragon gods, the other 4 dragon parents, Zeref, August, Irene, and Natsu. These 15 characters at their strongest would solo every curse user in the series. This isn't even accounting for the Spriggans, who each individually outclass Tartarus. Then there's the people who have beaten the Spriggans, which includes Erza. While Erza may not be strong enough to solo every curse user in the series, she can still probably take out END-Natsu in a 1v1. Even if you want to argue that curse users are stronger than magic users if they have the same power level, Erza and Mirajane don't have the same power-level to begin with. Erza is taking on opponents far stronger than Mirajane is capable of.

Kouyka's hax never played a factor? Um she was beating Erza badly until the plot force kicked in and Erza stared the historia away.

Spoiler

It was a fan term created when power levels were not a factor and thus the power was a little cheating. PL doesn't have anything to do with hax magic so Kyria being more powerful has nothing to do with the strength of the magic.

She went all out bcs Hiro wanted her out of magic when she met the top two S12s. If she had her magic she would've fought back and would've been killed. Like I said Hiro doesn't like to use hax magic in battles. He has already said this in one of the afterwords in the Alvarez arc. You think Jacob couldn't have used his transport on Natsu, Lucy, or Mira? Can't do it is not the as not doing it.

Brandish magic qorked on Battle Mode August. Battle Mode August >>>>> Neinhart in magic power. If magical power was the sole determining factor of why her magic was cancelled then she wouldn't have been surprised when her magic didn't work. She already knew his magical power was superior yet she still thought her magic would work. Irene's enchantment negated the effects of her mass manipulation not the boost in MP.

END Natsu was a joke. The only thing cool was that he could negate hax. He was nowhere near as strong as FDKM Natsu. And Erza was hurt by a non lethal attack from Natsu. Her durability was worse than DiMaria who was in base and was getting beat up by a bloodlusted Natsu. Erza's durability is not that high. It's her endurance that's high.

Erza doesn't have what it takes to stop Macro. She's already been effected by it and has already shown to be effected by 9D hax still. She also has been subjected to weaker forms of hax.

 

[Axiomus]

Kouyka's hax never played a factor? Um she was beating Erza badly until the plot force kicked in and Erza stared the historia away.

Spoiler

It was a fan term created when power levels were not a factor and thus the power was a little cheating. PL doesn't have anything to do with hax magic so Kyria being more powerful has nothing to do with the strength of the magic.

She went all out bcs Hiro wanted her out of magic when she met the top two S12s. If she had her magic she would've fought back and would've been killed. Like I said Hiro doesn't like to use hax magic in battles. He has already said this in one of the afterwords in the Alvarez arc. You think Jacob couldn't have used his transport on Natsu, Lucy, or Mira? Can't do it is not the as not doing it.

Brandish magic qorked on Battle Mode August. Battle Mode August >>>>> Neinhart in magic power. If magical power was the sole determining factor of why her magic was cancelled then she wouldn't have been surprised when her magic didn't work. She already knew his magical power was superior yet she still thought her magic would work. Irene's enchantment negated the effects of her mass manipulation not the boost in MP.

END Natsu was a joke. The only thing cool was that he could negate hax. He was nowhere near as strong as FDKM Natsu. And Erza was hurt by a non lethal attack from Natsu. Her durability was worse than DiMaria who was in base and was getting beat up by a bloodlusted Natsu. Erza's durability is not that high. It's her endurance that's high.

Erza doesn't have what it takes to stop Macro. She's already been effected by it and has already shown to be effected by 9D hax still. She also has been subjected to weaker forms of hax.

Kyouka wasn't beating Erza by herself, and it wasn't her hax that was beating Erza. Erza was fighting Azuma and Ikaruga at the same time, and it was Azuma who restrained Erza. Kyouka just tortured her for a bit, after Erza was already restrained, until Erza made the Historia vanish. Keep in mind that during this entire fight, Erza was still badly injured from having fought and defeated Ajeel earlier in the day.

The point is that hax isn't a real type of magic. There's no enchantment Irene can put on Neinhart that would make him immune to all types of hax, because each hax is a different type of magic. August wasn't trying to resist Brandish's magic and they weren't fighting. Brandish was actually trying to heal August, and August wanted it to happen. Not the case with Neinhart, who was fighting Brandish. I'm pretty sure a stronger mage can allow a weaker mage's magic to work on them if they wanted it to. Look at Erza with Lucy's gemini magic. When Erza wanted Lucy's magic to work on her, she allowed it to turn her into a fish. When Erza needed to fight, she dispelled the magic by herself. Wendy, who was weaker than Lucy, couldn't dispell the magic on her own.

Kyria being more powerful should affect the strength of her magic. Both Kyria and Seilah have hax magic that basically achieve the same effect, only Kyria is far stronger than Seilah. Even if Kyria's mind control isn't stronger than Seilah's, there's no reason for it to be weaker. Though honestly, the fact that Kyria is stronger should mean the effects of her magic are stronger as well. If Seilah and Kyria both wanted to control Erza, Kyria's magic should win out. Erza was never fully controlled by Seilah's macro. She was pretty lucid, and looked like she was struggling to not choke herself. Kyria pretty much had full control over Erza's actions.

Jacob could probably transport Natsu and Mirajane if he ever got the chance to clap in their fights, which he didn't. Mirajane's hand to hand skills were obviously able to keep him occupied enough from successfully pulling off transport, and Natsu would likely oneshotted him if they weren't in the guild. Lucy can outright counter Jacob, so it wouldn't have worked on her regardless.

END's power might not be very impressive, but END is still the strongest curse user in the series. Erza could probably take him out, which speaks to the difference in power level between Alvarez and Tartarus arcs. How is Erza's durability lower than Dimaria? She blocked an attack that most likely would have wrecked Dimaria. Later that day, Erza went on to fight Irene. Irene shattered all her bones, but Erza still broke the meteor and then did some damage to Irene's dragon form. Dimaria was so traumatized by END that she gave up fighting and took up gardening. They are on completely different levels as physical fighters.

 

[Jko]

Kyouka wasn't beating Erza by herself, and it wasn't her hax that was beating Erza. Erza was fighting Azuma and Ikaruga at the same time, and it was Azuma who restrained Erza. Kyouka just tortured her for a bit, after Erza was already restrained, until Erza made the Historia vanish. Keep in mind that during this entire fight, Erza was still badly injured from having fought and defeated Ajeel earlier in the day.

The point is that hax isn't a real type of magic. There's no enchantment Irene can put on Neinhart that would make him immune to all types of hax, because each hax is a different type of magic. August wasn't trying to resist Brandish's magic and they weren't fighting. Brandish was actually trying to heal August, and August wanted it to happen. Not the case with Neinhart, who was fighting Brandish. I'm pretty sure a stronger mage can allow a weaker mage's magic to work on them if they wanted it to. Look at Erza with Lucy's gemini magic. When Erza wanted Lucy's magic to work on her, she allowed it to turn her into a fish. When Erza needed to fight, she dispelled the magic by herself. Wendy, who was weaker than Lucy, couldn't dispell the magic on her own.

Kyria being more powerful should affect the strength of her magic. Both Kyria and Seilah have hax magic that basically achieve the same effect, only Kyria is far stronger than Seilah. Even if Kyria's mind control isn't stronger than Seilah's, there's no reason for it to be weaker. Though honestly, the fact that Kyria is stronger should mean the effects of her magic are stronger as well. If Seilah and Kyria both wanted to control Erza, Kyria's magic should win out. Erza was never fully controlled by Seilah's macro. She was pretty lucid, and looked like she was struggling to not choke herself. Kyria pretty much had full control over Erza's actions.

Jacob could probably transport Natsu and Mirajane if he ever got the chance to clap in their fights, which he didn't. Mirajane's hand to hand skills were obviously able to keep him occupied enough from successfully pulling off transport, and Natsu would likely oneshotted him if they weren't in the guild. Lucy can outright counter Jacob, so it wouldn't have worked on her regardless.

END's power might not be very impressive, but END is still the strongest curse user in the series. Erza could probably take him out, which speaks to the difference in power level between Alvarez and Tartarus arcs. How is Erza's durability lower than Dimaria? She blocked an attack that most likely would have wrecked Dimaria. Later that day, Erza went on to fight Irene. Irene shattered all her bones, but Erza still broke the meteor and then did some damage to Irene's dragon form. Dimaria was so traumatized by END that she gave up fighting and took up gardening. They are on completely different levels as physical fighters.

The hax worked. It doesn't matter if she was on a team as her hax worked.

What? Some types of magic are hax. That's why the term was made. Hax magic is not determine by MP, but the ability itself. Kyria's MP being higher than Seilah's has nothing to do with their hax. Macro is greater than a hypnosis that can be countered by awarness. If they both want to control Erza than Seilah's would win out as Kyria's has a flaw which is awareness and Erza's false eye. Seilah's has no such weakness therefore her hax is better. This has nothing to do with MP levels but the abilities themselves. Enchantments can be multi purpose. Enchantments aren't even an original idea as they've been portrayed in various forms of media. Enchantments have been shown to do many things and even negate others hax so it's not surprising Irene could do the same Brandish was surprised at the ability to negate her magic and asked how strong Irene made which implies she gave him more than an MP boost.

Since when do mages lower MP? If MP had anything to do with her magic than August would be impervious to it as his MP is way higher than her. She effected him while he was in battle mode so the whole he allowed her argument is null as his MP would be again way to high for her to effect him. Erza never dispelled Lucy's magic. Where did you get that? It explicitly shown they couldn't fight in fish form and Lucy had to revert them back herself.

Implies Jacob didn't have multiple chances to clap his hands -> Jacob manhandles Natsu in CQC and pins him to the floor. Saying Natsu didn't go all out against an opponent that held the guild hostage is funny. Let me guess he held back against Zeref bcs he was in the guild? Jacob also had the ability to completely erase his presence so him not using stealth + transport is CIS.

DiMaria was still conscious and had her timestop activated then she deactivated it after he left so she was still strong enough to move. He also cheap shotted her from behind and was fully bloodlusted Natsu. All of that and her body only had superficial wounds while Erza only blocked an attack from a non bloodlusted Natsu and her hand had worse than a third degree burn. Durability goes to Dim as shown by the difference in burns received from his fire. Dim became a farmer bcs her hax would f over FT and there's no one in Alvarez after the war that could've stopped her. Natsu doesn't have Savage Flame anymore so he would be f-ed to. She was too hax so Mashima gave her some pitiful excuse to stop her from fighting. Also she thought he was the END of legend which was false as he couldn't even oneshot Gray lol.

 

[Axiomus]

The hax worked. It doesn't matter if she was on a team as her hax worked.

What? Some types of magic are hax. That's why the term was made. Hax magic is not determine by MP, but the ability itself. Kyria's MP being higher than Seilah's has nothing to do with their hax. Macro is greater than a hypnosis that can be countered by awarness. If they both want to control Erza than Seilah's would win out as Kyria's has a flaw which is awareness and Erza's false eye. Seilah's has no such weakness therefore her hax is better. This has nothing to do with MP levels but the abilities themselves. Enchantments can be multi purpose. Enchantments aren't even an original idea as they've been portrayed in various forms of media. Enchantments have been shown to do many things and even negate others hax so it's not surprising Irene could do the same Brandish was surprised at the ability to negate her magic and asked how strong Irene made which implies she gave him more than an MP boost.

Since when do mages lower MP? If MP had anything to do with her magic than August would be impervious to it as his MP is way higher than her. She effected him while he was in battle mode so the whole he allowed her argument is null as his MP would be again way to high for her to effect him. Erza never dispelled Lucy's magic. Where did you get that? It explicitly shown they couldn't fight in fish form and Lucy had to revert them back herself.

Implies Jacob didn't have multiple chances to clap his hands -> Jacob manhandles Natsu in CQC and pins him to the floor. Saying Natsu didn't go all out against an opponent that held the guild hostage is funny. Let me guess he held back against Zeref bcs he was in the guild? Jacob also had the ability to completely erase his presence so him not using stealth + transport is CIS.

DiMaria was still conscious and had her timestop activated then she deactivated it after he left so she was still strong enough to move. He also cheap shotted her from behind and was fully bloodlusted Natsu. All of that and her body only had superficial wounds while Erza only blocked an attack from a non bloodlusted Natsu and her hand had worse than a third degree burn. Durability goes to Dim as shown by the difference in burns received from his fire. Dim became a farmer bcs her hax would f over FT and there's no one in Alvarez after the war that could've stopped her. Natsu doesn't have Savage Flame anymore so he would be f-ed to. She was too hax so Mashima gave her some pitiful excuse to stop her from fighting. Also she thought he was the END of legend which was false as he couldn't even oneshot Gray lol.

Kyouka's powers worked against a version of Erza that was already beaten and restrained by Azuma, one that was still carrying injuries from earlier fight with Ajeel. Erza wasn't exactly in the best shape. But even so, once Erza got serious she was able to dispel all the historia summoned against her. Seilah had more control over Erza, even with the weaknesses. Just because a magic has a weakness doesn't dismiss the strength of the magic. Seilah's macro has weaknesses against Wall and etherious as a whole have weaknesses against devil slaying magic.

Hax is a fan-made term. It's not an actual category of magic, like how dragon slaying, requip, or takeovers are a type of magic. It makes no sense for Irene to enchant Neinhart to be immune to only magics that only the readers (not even any character in the series) would consider hax. If Irene could make Neinhart immune to every type of magic that is considered hax, then there is no real reason she couldn't have just made Neinhart immune to all types of magic period. She could have given Neinhart immunity to fire magic, and Neinhart wouldn't have lost to Natsu. Neinhart said that Irene enchantments made his magical power outstrip its limits. Brandish asking "just how strong did Irene make him?" is a question regarding power. I hardly see how the wording of it implies that Irene specifically gave Neinhart a counter to Brandish's very specific shrinking magic.

Spoiler: Irene enchanting Neinhart's magical powers

We also know that Brandish's powers stop working against something significantly more powerful than her. Neinhart's enchantment didn't have to be any specific anti-hax ability (which again, would be really useless against Erza) to be immune to Brandish magic. It just has to be far more powerful than Brandish's magic like END's tumour was. This would at least be somewhat useful in improving Neinhart's chances against Erza.

Spoiler: Brandish magic cannot affect stuff far more powerful than any magic she has

I never said August had to lower his magical power. I never even implied that mages could lower their magical power (though they can). I said mages can choose to allow spells to work on them, and resist those spells if they dislike it's effects. Lucy only dispelled the transformation for herself, Natsu, and Happy. Gray and Erza were not present when she made that action, and had to dispel the spell on their own before joining the battle. Wendy was not powerful enough to dispel the transformation by herself at all, and Mercphobia had to do it for her. August was injured, and Brandish's magic would have helped him. I have no doubt he could have resisted her efforts if he wanted to.

Natsu holding back against Jacob is pretty well established. If Natsu started with FDK mode and just used an attack that engulfed the whole guild, that would have taken out Jacob whether or not he was in stealth. Natsu did eventually go all out against Zeref with dragon force, and that ended up blowing up a giant hole in the guild. Natsu wasn't very happy about that. Anyways, it's not extremely difficult for people stop Jacob from clapping. Makarov did it here by throwing Happy between Jacob's hands. Evidently, Mirajane was able to beat Jacob. She must have found a way to prevent him from clapping and somehow managed to counter his stealth.

Spoiler: Stopping Jacob from clapping

The wounds to Erza's hands pretty much disappeared by the time Erza fought Irene, which was only like a couple minutes after. Dimaria was brutalised by END. It was as bad of a beating as I've ever seen from the series. It doesn't matter if it was a cheap shot or not. END's claw attacks don't do anywhere as much damage as Irene's dragon claws, and Erza can smash a meteor after taking one of Irene's swipes. Gray got hit a couple of times with END's power, and he's pretty much fine. You could let Natsu whack Erza for a few free shots, and Erza would still win the fight. If Erza could move in Dimaria's time, she would destroy Dimaria.

 

[Jko]

Kyouka's powers worked against a version of Erza that was already beaten and restrained by Azuma, one that was still carrying injuries from earlier fight with Ajeel. Erza wasn't exactly in the best shape. But even so, once Erza got serious she was able to dispel all the historia summoned against her. Seilah had more control over Erza, even with the weaknesses. Just because a magic has a weakness doesn't dismiss the strength of the magic. Seilah's macro has weaknesses against Wall and etherious as a whole have weaknesses against devil slaying magic.

Hax is a fan-made term. It's not an actual category of magic, like how dragon slaying, requip, or takeovers are a type of magic. It makes no sense for Irene to enchant Neinhart to be immune to only magics that only the readers (not even any character in the series) would consider hax. If Irene could make Neinhart immune to every type of magic that is considered hax, then there is no real reason she couldn't have just made Neinhart immune to all types of magic period. She could have given Neinhart immunity to fire magic, and Neinhart wouldn't have lost to Natsu. Neinhart said that Irene enchantments made his magical power outstrip its limits. Brandish asking "just how strong did Irene make him?" is a question regarding power. I hardly see how the wording of it implies that Irene specifically gave Neinhart a counter to Brandish's very specific shrinking magic.

Spoiler: Irene enchanting Neinhart's magical powers

We also know that Brandish's powers stop working against something significantly more powerful than her. Neinhart's enchantment didn't have to be any specific anti-hax ability (which again, would be really useless against Erza) to be immune to Brandish magic. It just has to be far more powerful than Brandish's magic like END's tumour was. This would at least be somewhat useful in improving Neinhart's chances against Erza.

Spoiler: Brandish magic cannot affect stuff far more powerful than any magic she has

I never said August had to lower his magical power. I never even implied that mages could lower their magical power (though they can). I said mages can choose to allow spells to work on them, and resist those spells if they dislike it's effects. Lucy only dispelled the transformation for herself, Natsu, and Happy. Gray and Erza were not present when she made that action, and had to dispel the spell on their own before joining the battle. Wendy was not powerful enough to dispel the transformation by herself at all, and Mercphobia had to do it for her. August was injured, and Brandish's magic would have helped him. I have no doubt he could have resisted her efforts if he wanted to.

Natsu holding back against Jacob is pretty well established. If Natsu started with FDK mode and just used an attack that engulfed the whole guild, that would have taken out Jacob whether or not he was in stealth. Natsu did eventually go all out against Zeref with dragon force, and that ended up blowing up a giant hole in the guild. Natsu wasn't very happy about that. Anyways, it's not extremely difficult for people stop Jacob from clapping. Makarov did it here by throwing Happy between Jacob's hands. Evidently, Mirajane was able to beat Jacob. She must have found a way to prevent him from clapping and somehow managed to counter his stealth.

Spoiler: Stopping Jacob from clapping

The wounds to Erza's hands pretty much disappeared by the time Erza fought Irene, which was only like a couple minutes after. Dimaria was brutalised by END. It was as bad of a beating as I've ever seen from the series. It doesn't matter if it was a cheap shot or not. END's claw attacks don't do anywhere as much damage as Irene's dragon claws, and Erza can smash a meteor after taking one of Irene's swipes. Gray got hit a couple of times with END's power, and he's pretty much fine. You could let Natsu whack Erza for a few free shots, and Erza would still win the fight. If Erza could move in Dimaria's time, she would destroy Dimaria.

It worked on current Erza who has superior magic to Tartarus Erza. Just because Erza's body was damage in previous fight doesn't mean her magic was lower.

Hax is fan made term but Hiro has refer to hax magic in layman's terms. He literally says all the S12 have a sort of cheat magic in his afterword which is hax.

Where in any of those scans did Brandish say it was because of magical power? The E.N.D. thing is because E.N.D. can resist hax as seen when he straight walk through timestop with zero counter. Irene's enchantment could be more to it then just increased MP due to the fact Erza beat him with a stare alone. She probably imbued him with something to stop Erza from doing that again and again Enchantments are complex they can have more than one function. Heck the side effect of being enchanted by Irene could have stopped Brandish's magic. They both have to imbue their magic into something to use their magic so Irene's enchantment was a direct counter to it.

Dude, that Happy thing was a straight fluke. Secondly he had Natsu and Lucy on the ground and they couldn't even tag him so no he had ample time to clap. Third he had again way enough time to clap when Natsu was initiating FDKM which took longer to activate than Jacob clapping his hands. Jacob not using his hax effectively is clearly CIS as he would have stomped them and the guild swiftly. Also just because he didn't go FDKM at the start doesn't mean he wasn't taking it serious. Natsu a lot of time doesn't even go into his modes yet still proves his base can be as powerful as them. Look at the Mard fight. LFDM was utterly useless while his base attacks did more damage.

Show where a mage has ever lowered their MP in the series. Then show me someone who allowed an inferior magic to effect them despite their superior magical power stopping it before.

Natsu >>>>> Erza/Gray. If he needed Lucy to dispel the magic then Erza and Gray would have needed Lucy to dispel it as well. It was made clear this when Natsu needed her to dispel it. She also needed to fight so why wouldn't she dispel Gray's or Erza's when they'd need back up. Just because the others weren't in her vicinity doesn't mean she didn't dispel the magic on them.

 

[kaiiruuu]

If Seilah's Macro worked on Erza, it should also work when Mirajane's using it (assuming she's her only opponent). Macro is absolute.

 

[Axiomus]

It worked on current Erza who has superior magic to Tartarus Erza. Just because Erza's body was damage in previous fight doesn't mean her magic was lower.

Hax is fan made term but Hiro has refer to hax magic in layman's terms. He literally says all the S12 have a sort of cheat magic in his afterword which is hax.

Where in any of those scans did Brandish say it was because of magical power? The E.N.D. thing is because E.N.D. can resist hax as seen when he straight walk through timestop with zero counter. Irene's enchantment could be more to it then just increased MP due to the fact Erza beat him with a stare alone. She probably imbued him with something to stop Erza from doing that again and again Enchantments are complex they can have more than one function. Heck the side effect of being enchanted by Irene could have stopped Brandish's magic. They both have to imbue their magic into something to use their magic so Irene's enchantment was a direct counter to it.

Dude, that Happy thing was a straight fluke. Secondly he had Natsu and Lucy on the ground and they couldn't even tag him so no he had ample time to clap. Third he had again way enough time to clap when Natsu was initiating FDKM which took longer to activate than Jacob clapping his hands. Jacob not using his hax effectively is clearly CIS as he would have stomped them and the guild swiftly. Also just because he didn't go FDKM at the start doesn't mean he wasn't taking it serious. Natsu a lot of time doesn't even go into his modes yet still proves his base can be as powerful as them. Look at the Mard fight. LFDM was utterly useless while his base attacks did more damage.

Show where a mage has ever lowered their MP in the series. Then show me someone who allowed an inferior magic to effect them despite their superior magical power stopping it before.

Natsu >>>>> Erza/Gray. If he needed Lucy to dispel the magic then Erza and Gray would have needed Lucy to dispel it as well. It was made clear this when Natsu needed her to dispel it. She also needed to fight so why wouldn't she dispel Gray's or Erza's when they'd need back up. Just because the others weren't in her vicinity doesn't mean she didn't dispel the magic on them.

It worked on a version of Erza already exhausted and wounded from having fought Ajeel, and then defeated in battle against the Historia and restrained by Azuma. Even then, when Erza finally started flexing her POF, she managed the entire historia itself. Brandish said that she could not affect END because the seed was far more powerful than any magic she had. The reason that Dimaria gave for not being able to timestop END was also because it surpassed her in power. Enchantments aren't that complex. You take the properties of something and put it into something else. If Irene can enchant a magic that could specifically counter every type of hax, then why stop there? Irene could have just as easily enchanted Neinhart to be immune to fire magic. All it would have taken is for her to enchant some type of slayer property into him. Which shouldn't be hard, as she's a dragon that can breathe fire. By the logic that enchantment = automatic-anti-hax, shouldn't Erza have an anti-hax against macro simply by virtue that she's got a sword that was "enchanted" by Wendy? Shouldn't dragon slaying magic automatically make someone anti-hax? It's an enchantment after all.

Jacob may have had better hand to hand skills, but it's not like Natsu and Lucy couldn't tag them. Simply put, if the punch that Natsu landed on Jacob had been a more powerful punch like the one he used against the Alvarez troops, then the fight would have been over pretty much as fast as the fight with Neinhart. The 2nd punch would have sent Neinhart flying as far as Makarov's punch did. Then Natsu would have activated FDK mode, and then finished off Jacob. It's also pretty clear that Natsu was holding back, unless you think that Jacob had better hand to hand skills than Zeref.

Spoiler: Natsu punching Jacob

Spoiler: Natsu punching the Alvarez troops

Mages lower their MP all the time simply from going from a higher form to a weaker form, or when they start flexing their MP and stop. But that's irrelevant. So far as a mage willingly allowing a someone's magic to work on them and dispelling it later, I already gave you the example of Lucy using Gemini's magic, which didn't dispel for everyone because it didn't dispel for Wendy.... Unless you think Lucy was purposely being cruel to Wendy or something.

For the sake of argument, let's say I agree that macro could work on Erza. It takes Mirajane pretty much the same amount of time to transform a takeover as it takes for Erza to requip, and all things considered Erza is probably going to be faster on the draw. What is stopping Erza from going with something like her nakagami armour and just cutting Mirajane's magic? What is stopping Erza from dropping a bunch of swords on Mirajane while she's in the process of transforming?