I've remixed your quotes so they points are in one spot to streamline my response.
I think it's safe to say that Ajeel is a glass cannon by now. He was unable to tank something BoS Erza tanked (although it was her best defensive armor) and we've seen characters in the same power level as Ajeel having much better durability feats.
- It's true that Kagura hadn't unsheathed Archenemy yet, but when she slashed Adamantine Armor, she hadn't done it either, so I think it's fair to say that Kagura was fighting more or less at the same level against Erza and against Minerva. Furthermore, I don't see why Minerva and Kagura can't be scaled to each other if they fought on par, which would be further proof that Minerva has MCB-level durability and that Jupiter isn't more than a MCB buster.
Basically you're arguing that Kagura has Jupiter level slashes because of adamantine, right? I'll make my response to why Ajeel>Minerva using Adamantine comparison.
- Erza at BoS is pretty much the same as GMG/Pre-SO Erza. So at least you should be able to compare the durability of the Erza's with equivalence.
- Kagura and Pre-SO Erza have roughly the same durability by using similar damage to Yagdo Rigora.
- Adamantine used against Jupiter was damaged to a greater degree, and furthermore it put Erza down.
- Adamantine used against Kagura was sliced thru in sections but Erza was easily able to keep fighting.
So you have Jupiter overcoming Adamantine (high damage to armor) + putting Erza down. She could not fight for some time after taking on Jupiter. Then you have Kagura slashing thru Adamantine in some parts + causing damage to Erza (but not close to putting Erza down, she kept fighting without any implied impediment). This would prove Jupiter is above Kagura's slashes on account of greater damage to Adamantine and Erza.
To further that above argument, Kagura used pose against adamantine. This is clearly different to what she did in the three way as pose is a named attack (generally implies it's stronger). Moreover Kagura was angry with Erza, saying she wouldn't hold back. In the three way she was doing nothing more than warming up. You can also infer that the three-way was a warm up because Erza didn't requip if you like. So this should be enough to say Kagura's slash in pose > slashes in warm up. Essentially in terms of power output Kagura archenemy unsheathed > Kagura v Erza (using pose) > three way warm up Kagura slashes.
So let's run with your scaling that Minerva and Kagura have similar durability. And then add the logic from my second dot point, meaning Kagura, Minerva and Pre-SO Erza have similar durability. Now use Erza's feats against Jupiter - where an unhurt Erza was put down for some time despite having an Adamantine defense. If Minerva could defend against Jupiter to the same level Erza did with Adamantine, Minerva would be put down for some time.
Now compare that above to Ajeel. He not only had take blows beforehand, he also had NO defense. If he could defend he would have scattered it like before. He fully took on Jupiter. How much damage did Ajeel suffer? He was moderately hurt just before Jupiter, then probably pushed to very hurt. Was he taken out of the fight by Jupiter ONLY? Or did Starlight finish him? For Minerva/Erza they could not fight after Jupiter with defense.
Logically speaking I should have proved Ajeel > Minerva in durability. And that is assuming Minerva is as durable as Pre-SO Erza.
On your MCB scaling - I don't really equate things like that. I realize it makes it convenient for you to compare and at least it is method to attempt to quantify the situation, I just find the level of error associated in quantifying it uncomfortable. By error I mean this in a statistical/tolerance way not saying your assumptions are error-ridden.
- Exactly, so he just effortlessly shrugged it off with his arm without really countering it (like Ajeel did when he dispersed Jupiter for the first time). This is proof of Makarov's durability, and as such, it can be used to compare Makarov with Ajeel. Circumstances are irrelevant when both the situations are clearly durability feats, even though one of them is the feat of not tanking Jupiter. I don't think it's extraordinary to claim that Makarov has better durability than one of the Spriggan 12, as Titan Makarov is a close-range fighter and Ajeel is clearly a mid-range fighter, in which durability is not as important (and consider that Ajeel has Sand Body, which pretty much makes durability useless for him).
Did Ajeel
not tank Jupiter though? He did not defend guard (like Adamantine Erza, or Titan Makarov), nor is he heavy like Titan Makarov, so he was hit with a blast and sent flying. Ajeel took damage from Jupiter (without a guard or defense) but if you're claiming Ajeel didn't tank Jupiter aren't you saying he could not fight after taking it? If so there was no need for Starlight right?
I usually always consider the circumstances. Ajeel had taken damage already, Titan Makarov hadn't. Ajeel had an axe in one hand, choking Erza with the other and was surprised by Jupiter. Guarding like Makarov Titan did has meaning, he can mitigate some of the damage by trying to block. In the GMG Rufus used a thunder attack that Laxus guarded against (as per Mavis advice) - if guarding is irrelevant Laxus could have just casually strolled and been unaffected.
It's extraordinary to claim Makarov has durability tier
s above as you stated, implying that Makarov is much above Ajeel in this regard. I can accept that
if feats show it than Makarov >> Spriggan in durability but to me it hasn't been shown yet.
I can agree that a ranged fighter with sand body doesn't require great durability, but not requiring doesn't mean anything - if you have the durability you have it. As far as I am concerned sand body gave Ajeel a false sense of security, and he took hits from slashes he shouldn't have had he been trying to defend himself like others without hax would. Starlight is a different story but this was not the first bit of damage he took and it was the strongest attack he received.
- It doesn't make it powerless, but what we're discussing here is Ajeel's durability. How can we scale Ajeel's durability to that if the only feat that slash had was on Ajeel? We simply can't. Furthermore, once it's been proved that Jupiter isn't more than a multi-city block buster, that attack can't be scaled above of that, which would put the Water Sword slash below Erza's Cube piercing feat in terms of strength. This is just further proof that the difference between Tartaros Erza and Current Erza is near to irrelevant.
We don't need to scale it if we don't want to, you can make a rational judgement without the use of feat comparisons. Simply put how often does a sword slash someone from Erza, send them flying into a wall, and do zero damage? Who could pull that off? This is saying something about Ajeel's durability to me.
That can't be scaled because Ajeel's durability is not above Minerva's until someone manages to invalidate my arguments. It's true that Ajeel is a more powerful mage than Minerva, but it's because of Sand World, Sand Body and all of his town-scaled attacks. It's not because he has superior physical stats.
I was suggesting that current Erza negating sand body is >> feat wise to negating territory, due to Ajeel >> Minerva. I don't know how true this is as Nakagami is said to bend the laws of magic, so maybe the MP of the opponent doesn't matter and she can use this on any level of magic.
@ underline - have you proved with certainty that Ajeel and Minerva have similar durability?
