Discussion Gildarts Clive

[Brandish μ]

Tbh, Jellal showed me way more impressive things than Gildarts did. He took down the OS on his own. Even though any Spriggan (maybe Ajeel not) could do this as well, I can't see Gildarts do it like Jellal did.

Sema may be the strongest caster spell we've seen so far. Gildarts didn't show me anything as impressive as Sema.

Both Laxus and Jellal are > pre-skip Gildarts.

Gildarts would pummel OS on his own. Only person he'd have to worry about is Midnight, exactly like Jellal had to.

As far as Gildarts impressiveness goes he actually can lay claim to beating someone of Jellal's caliber in Bluenote. His physical prowess is of the highest tier preskip excluding dragons. I rate Empyrean very highly pre-skip, it essentially can take out Bluenote tiers. Gildarts mountain punch is one of the best feats pre-skip. I don't think it's as powerful as Empyrean, but it cracked a whole heap of rock.

Sema is a very impressive spell but you have to remember it took out people of Cobra's level. Cobra was still able to move albeit he was in no condition to fight. Now there is no way I can grant Sema the capability of taking out Gildarts because it took out Cobra. There is a vast difference between the 2. As far as human wizards are concerned in pre-skip, on Hades can make the claim of having better physical durability and endurance than Gildarts - and Hades vitality is enhanced by demon heart. The best thing about Sema is that it's basically unstoppable, while Gildarts' Empyrean can be dodged.

I'd say Gildarts beats Jellal, high difficulty, or maybe med-high.

I'd say Laxus and Jellal are equal. Both of them are more or less Spriggan tier and I can't see them beating a Spriggan without having a really hard time. There are still a view Spriggans who are stronger than them. I'd say they are equal with mid tier Spriggans.

Base Natsu is below Laxus, Jellal and Gildarts.

I place Laxus above the likes of God Serena, Ajeel, Wahl, DiMaria and Jacob; but below August. A nerfed Laxus is essentially Spriggan tier. Jellal I predict to be somewhere around Laxus level.

It's up to Gildarts to prove if he is above Natsu's level. Natsu can fight quite well, as seen v Bluenote. And that was not a FDK spell. Gildarts needs to show he's got that level of game. I don't by into the premise that Gildarts was holding back vs Bluenote, I do believe that he fought seriously; otherwise that would be bad writing by Mashima. So, Gildarts pre-skip is somewhere around GoI/Bluenote level in this timeskip, and hence would need to improve to get to Spriggan level.

 

[BluePegasus]

You didn't see anything impressive from Gildarts? Like demolishing a large part of an island? Or actually fighting Natsu without magic? He found Tartaros Natsu (who was using fire magic) with his bare hands and after Natsu used a flurry of attacks, he only managed to push Gildarts a little backwards. Gildarts literally sent Natsu flying with a single punch. Can you see pre TS Jellal or Laxus doing that to Tartaros Natsu? Natsu got scared and refused to fight Gildarts anymore after that little show and somehow Jellal and Laxus are stronger and more impressive?

Sema can destroy a part of an island without a doubt.

When did he fought Natsu without using magic? Gildarts didn't appear in the Tartaros arc.

I was talking about Alvarez Jellal and Laxus being stronger than pre-timeskip Gildarts, not pre-timeskip Jellal and Laxus.

Pre-timeskip Natsu is a lot weaker than Current Natsu. Gildarts had the upper hand when he fought Natsu in the Tenrou arc but had a hard time against Bluenote. Current Natsu one shotted Bluenote.

Current Laxus is stronger than Current (Base) Natsu, which is a fact.

Tartaros Jellal defeated the Oracion Seis and I can't see Current (Base) Natsu doing the same. Current Jellal should be stronger.

So in the end:

Laxus = Jellal > Natsu > pre-timeskip Gildarts

Gildarts would pummel OS on his own. Only person he'd have to worry about is Midnight, exactly like Jellal had to.

As far as Gildarts impressiveness goes he actually can lay claim to beating someone of Jellal's caliber in Bluenote. His physical prowess is of the highest tier preskip excluding dragons. I rate Empyrean very highly pre-skip, it essentially can take out Bluenote tiers. Gildarts mountain punch is one of the best feats pre-skip. I don't think it's as powerful as Empyrean, but it cracked a whole heap of rock.

Sema is a very impressive spell but you have to remember it took out people of Cobra's level. Cobra was still able to move albeit he was in no condition to fight. Now there is no way I can grant Sema the capability of taking out Gildarts because it took out Cobra. There is a vast difference between the 2. As far as human wizards are concerned in pre-skip, on Hades can make the claim of having better physical durability and endurance than Gildarts - and Hades vitality is enhanced by demon heart. The best thing about Sema is that it's basically unstoppable, while Gildarts' Empyrean can be dodged.

I'd say Gildarts beats Jellal, high difficulty, or maybe med-high.

I place Laxus above the likes of God Serena, Ajeel, Wahl, DiMaria and Jacob; but below August. A nerfed Laxus is essentially Spriggan tier. Jellal I predict to be somewhere around Laxus level.

It's up to Gildarts to prove if he is above Natsu's level. Natsu can fight quite well, as seen v Bluenote. And that was not a FDK spell. Gildarts needs to show he's got that level of game. I don't by into the premise that Gildarts was holding back vs Bluenote, I do believe that he fought seriously; otherwise that would be bad writing by Mashima. So, Gildarts pre-skip is somewhere around GoI/Bluenote level in this timeskip, and hence would need to improve to get to Spriggan level.

Gildarts can take the Oración Seis down, but not with the same diff as Jellal. Jellal defeated all of them with one blow. There is no way how Gildarts could defeat all of them like Jellal did. For instance, what could Gildarts do against Racer? And against Midnight? He would cast a freaking illusion from Acnologia or something. Current Jellal has more feats than Gildarts has ever shown.

Sema would do major damage to Gildarts. You could be right that he won't be defeated directly, but what about his other spells? Grand Chariot could do a lot damage as well. I can't see a way Gildarts could do major damage to Jellal. Jellal could dodge his spells with Meteor. There is one thing Gildarts doesn't have, which is speed. He would have a lot trouble with Meteor.

I'd say Laxus is more or less equal with Ajeel, Jacob and Wahl. God Serena and Di Maria are stronger than him if you'd ask me. Laxus is at the lower Spriggan tier.

I agree with you that Jellal is equal with him.

Based on what I've seen from Gildarts, I'd rank him as strong as Jura. There is a possible chance he will appear this arc and take down a Spriggan, because most of the stronger Fairy Tail characters already had the chance. Side characters will probably be used to be defeated.

 

[reesestl]

the most important thing in a fight is not whether u won unscathed or u took a little longer or counting the no of punches, what is important is whether u lose composure in battle. You lose composure only when there is a real fear of defeat. Gildartz never lost composure or got desperate in battle. Natsu and everybody have at one point or another. Lucy didn't have any for most of her fights.

 

[Holt]

When did he fought Natsu without using magic? Gildarts didn't appear in the Tartaros arc.

In the silent chapter. That was just before the timeskip.

I was talking about Alvarez Jellal and Laxus being stronger than pre-timeskip Gildarts, not pre-timeskip Jellal and Laxus.

Alvarez Laxus yes, Alvarez Jellal no. Alvarez Jellal is fearless and thus the same as Pre TS Jellal for now. It's baseless to rank him stronger until he's shown that he is indeed stronger. And that Jellal isn't stronger than Gildarts.

Pre-timeskip Natsu is a lot weaker than Current Natsu. Gildarts had the upper hand when he fought Natsu in the Tenrou arc but had a hard time against Bluenote. Current Natsu one shotted Bluenote.

Current Natsu didn't decide to exchange blows with Bluenote. In fact, when Bluenote got close to him, he put some distance between them. When bluenote charged again, he took him out with a ranged spell. Gildarts by nature fights CQC. When he did use a spell though, he took out Bluenote in one hit. Sure Natsu defeating Bluenote was more impressive, but doesn't make Gildarts any less impressive. I didn't say Gildarts (as at the last time we saw him) is stronger. I used his battle against Natsu in the silent chapter to prove that he was more impressive than Jellal.

Current Laxus is stronger than Current (Base) Natsu, which is a fact.

How is this a fact? They're both immensely powerful. Natsu also has other modes available to him. There's no clear one stronger among the two. I do believe Laxus is stronger but that's an opinion, not a fact.

Tartaros Jellal defeated the Oracion Seis and I can't see Current (Base) Natsu doing the same. Current Jellal should be stronger.

So in the end:

Laxus = Jellal > Natsu > pre-timeskip Gildarts

You can't see Current Natsu beating OS? How does that even make sense? You do realize that OS are fodder to the current power level in the manga right? Natsu can literally wipe them out using the roar he used against Bluenote. Are you implying Tartaros Jellal is stronger than Current Natsu? That doesn't even make any sense.

 

[kkck]

As far as gildarts and bluenote, I think people are sort of missing important details Gildarts won that fight using what seems to be one of his stronger spells, or at least the strongest one we have seen from him yet. While it is true that gildarts went at it without his magic for a bit, he never manhandled bluenote and him having to go that far to beat him is impressive enough as it is. Also worth noting, while gildarts did have his magic he got a power boost due to being on tenrou island.

 

[Brandish μ]

Gildarts can take the Oración Seis down, but not with the same diff as Jellal. Jellal defeated all of them with one blow. There is no way how Gildarts could defeat all of them like Jellal did. For instance, what could Gildarts do against Racer? And against Midnight? He would cast a freaking illusion from Acnologia or something. Current Jellal has more feats than Gildarts has ever shown.

I believe just crash punches would be enough for OS, 1 or 2 each. Jellal did it high diff, Sema finished it. Gildarts could start things off by punching the ground with crash which would create some chaos, and then take each member out 1 by 1. Like I said Midnight's illusions are the only problem. The thing is doing damage to Gildarts is also something OS need to think about, he's more of a tank than Jellal.

As for feats Jellal has a greater AoE spell, better ranged spells, greater versatility in magic and greater speed. Gildarts has a feat of taking out a more powerful wizard, greater durability, greater endurance, greater strength, better defensive spell (disassembly), better CQC, and I'd wager he has greater magic power.

Sema would do major damage to Gildarts. You could be right that he won't be defeated directly, but what about his other spells? Grand Chariot could do a lot damage as well. I can't see a way Gildarts could do major damage to Jellal. Jellal could dodge his spells with Meteor. There is one thing Gildarts doesn't have, which is speed. He would have a lot trouble with Meteor.

I'd say Gildarts would be hurt, but he'd endure it and still be in a condition to fight. If you ignore the awesomeness of Sema, and take it for it's ability to do damage (put down Cobra), then I see Gildarts not being majorly damaged. Sema should be used as a finisher, just like Empyrean for Gildarts.

Based on what I've seen from Gildarts, I'd rank him as strong as Jura. There is a possible chance he will appear this arc and take down a Spriggan, because most of the stronger Fairy Tail characters already had the chance. Side characters will probably be used to be defeated

I'd say Jura level is ok. Somewhere around Jura or GoI for Tenrou Gildarts.

I will note that if side characters are 'used' to be defeated, and then FT wins the fight, this will actually mean the FT wizard is superior. So if Gildarts comes back and solos a Spriggan similar to Serena in power it will be legit that Gildarts is much above Jura.

Current Natsu didn't decide to exchange blows with Bluenote. In fact, when Bluenote got close to him, he put some distance between them. When bluenote charged again, he took him out with a ranged spell.

This is true, but Natsu was holding Sherria. He could probably outfight Bluenote in hand-to-hand, but it's not going to be a walkover like the roar.

As far as gildarts and bluenote, I think people are sort of missing important details Gildarts won that fight using what seems to be one of his stronger spells, or at least the strongest one we have seen from him yet. While it is true that gildarts went at it without his magic for a bit, he never manhandled bluenote and him having to go that far to beat him is impressive enough as it is. Also worth noting, while gildarts did have his magic he got a power boost due to being on tenrou island.

I do agree with this. We see Gildarts exhausted at the end, lying down. I take that as Gildarts using a fairly exhaustive spell in Empyrean. I actually do think he used crash magic in CQC v Bluenote, but it's not on the scale of a named spell (similar to how Natsu uses flames in his punches, but they're not on the level as full powered attacks).

 

[wooticus]

I'm going to argument from a different perspective.

Gildarts survived an encounter with Acnologia and just lost an organ and a limb. Ok, maybe Acnologia wasn't totally into killing him - but Acnologia killed God Serena in one fucking attack. The guy who all on his own defeated the proclaimed Top 4 mages of Ishgar. I wouldn't say Gildarts is better or on the same level as God Serena or one of the top Spriggan, but in my opinion he could have beaten the weaker ones.

For example do I think that he would have good chances against Wahl Icht just out of the nature of his ability to crash everything he throws at him.

 

[Brandish μ]

I'm going to argument from a different perspective.

Gildarts survived an encounter with Acnologia and just lost an organ and a limb. Ok, maybe Acnologia wasn't totally into killing him - but Acnologia killed God Serena in one fucking attack. The guy who all on his own defeated the proclaimed Top 4 mages of Ishgar. I wouldn't say Gildarts is better or on the same level as God Serena or one of the top Spriggan, but in my opinion he could have beaten the weaker ones.

For example do I think that he would have good chances against Wahl Icht just out of the nature of his ability to crash everything he throws at him.

I tend to avoid the comparison with Acnologia on the basis that it's impossible for Gildarts to survive against him if Acnologia did indeed want to kill him. And we do not know what happened, just that both attacks happened instantly (Serena's was on panel, Gildarts said it was instant).

I liken it to a bomb going off in a room. One person could die, the other could lose limbs. It's not a durability question, it's a matter of luck (sorry for using a morbid example).

 

[Holt]

This is true, but Natsu was holding Sherria. He could probably outfight Bluenote in hand-to-hand, but it's not going to be a walkover like the roar.

True. Natsu can certainly best Bluenote even in CQC, but wouldn't be as easy as he did with the roar.

As far as gildarts and bluenote, I think people are sort of missing important details Gildarts won that fight using what seems to be one of his stronger spells, or at least the strongest one we have seen from him yet. While it is true that gildarts went at it without his magic for a bit, he never manhandled bluenote and him having to go that far to beat him is impressive enough as it is. Also worth noting, while gildarts did have his magic he got a power boost due to being on tenrou island.

Well yes, Empyrean is likely one of his stronger spells but then he literally sent Bluenote flying with that. Sure Gildarts didn't have any overwhelming advantage when he and Bluenote exchanged punches (though he was superior) but considering the effect Empyrean had, it showed there was quite a gap between them and he was technically fighting under Bluenote's Gravity for the duration of that fight.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2016 ---

I tend to avoid the comparison with Acnologia on the basis that it's impossible for Gildarts to survive against him if Acnologia did indeed want to kill him. And we do not know what happened, just that both attacks happened instantly (Serena's was on panel, Gildarts said it was instant).

I liken it to a bomb going off in a room. One person could die, the other could lose limbs. It's not a durability question, it's a matter of luck (sorry for using a morbid example).

Well tbf, Gildarts lost an arm, a leg and an organ. If we consider that this was all done in one attack, then the radius of the damage Gildarts took was larger than that of Serena. He would've taken an attack that near cleaved him in half. Also, Gildarts statement implies he actually faced of against Acbologia as a dragon. Indeed, using this might not be entirely valid since we're not exactly sure how it happened, but it can't just be ignored either. Plus Gildarts did say Acnologia was toying with FT on tenrou, a statement he wouldn't have made if Acnologia hadn't attacked him seriously.

 

[reesestl]

I tend to avoid the comparison with Acnologia on the basis that it's impossible for Gildarts to survive against him if Acnologia did indeed want to kill him. And we do not know what happened, just that both attacks happened instantly (Serena's was on panel, Gildarts said it was instant).

I liken it to a bomb going off in a room. One person could die, the other could lose limbs. It's not a durability question, it's a matter of luck (sorry for using a morbid example).

The bomb example is based on proximity. DOesn't really apply here. If you keep completely ignoring relevant data, it will bias your conclusion. Same as ppl always ignoring the silent chapter for no reason.

 

[Ichibei]

I think there is a reason we havent seen Gildarts fighting someone for a long time. Mashima keeps him for a super strong enemy I guess, hope its August

 

[Arjuna]

I'm going to argument from a different perspective.

Gildarts survived an encounter with Acnologia and just lost an organ and a limb. Ok, maybe Acnologia wasn't totally into killing him - but Acnologia killed God Serena in one fucking attack. The guy who all on his own defeated the proclaimed Top 4 mages of Ishgar. I wouldn't say Gildarts is better or on the same level as God Serena or one of the top Spriggan, but in my opinion he could have beaten the weaker ones.

For example do I think that he would have good chances against Wahl Icht just out of the nature of his ability to crash everything he throws at him.

It's not like That.Gildarts lost an arm,a leg and one unnamed organ while God Serena's Entire Right Abdomen was blown away So It was Fatal.

 

[Brandish μ]

Well tbf, Gildarts lost an arm, a leg and an organ. If we consider that this was all done in one attack, then the radius of the damage Gildarts took was larger than that of Serena. He would've taken an attack that near cleaved him in half. Also, Gildarts statement implies he actually faced of against Acbologia as a dragon. Indeed, using this might not be entirely valid since we're not exactly sure how it happened, but it can't just be ignored either. Plus Gildarts did say Acnologia was toying with FT on tenrou, a statement he wouldn't have made if Acnologia hadn't attacked him seriously.

I don't think there is much difference to what happened to either Serena or Gildarts. If a vital organ is taken from Gildarts he dies. For Serena it seemed a vital was hit. The physical bodies of Gildarts and Serena were overwhelmingly breached, I put it down to luck that Gildarts lives. With that amount of force I'm sure either Gildarts or Serena could be ripped anywhere on their bodies. I give Gildarts credit for surviving though, I doubt people would be there to help him.

I also consider the dragon/human form of Acnologia to be irrelevant. Well, I can see human Acno doing the exact same thing to Gildarts as it did Serena if it wanted to. The chasm between human Acno and the other 2 is that great.

The bomb example is based on proximity. DOesn't really apply here. If you keep completely ignoring relevant data, it will bias your conclusion. Same as ppl always ignoring the silent chapter for no reason.

I used the bomb as an example of the chaos of the situation. I should have maybe added in other conditions to rule out things like proximity. Essentially, if something can take an arm, organ and a leg in one explosion odds are it can kill you. The chaos in this situation is if it takes a vital or not.

I feel the silent chapter is to show Natsu's a little stronger but Gildarts is still vastly superior.

 

[kkck]

Well yes, Empyrean is likely one of his stronger spells but then he literally sent Bluenote flying with that. Sure Gildarts didn't have any overwhelming advantage when he and Bluenote exchanged punches (though he was superior) but considering the effect Empyrean had, it showed there was quite a gap between them and he was technically fighting under Bluenote's Gravity for the duration of that fight.
.

Well, none of this really suggests gildarts was overwhelmingly stronger either. What we got was each of them using their apparently stronger (or strongest) techniques and gildarts coming out on top. Gildart is definitely the stronger one but I don't think the manga as a whole suggests a big difference.

 

[kkck]

I don't think Glidarts could have survived being attacked by Acnologia unless someone saved him since mountains are hundreds of miles away from any city, town, or village. I find it suspicious Glidarts got a prothesis leg and arm when he was hundreds of miles away from any kind of city or town. I'm no doctor but Glidarts would have died have massive blood lose, circulatory shock, and infection because of his injuries.

I am not sure the manga has been all that specific about how far from people gildarts was when he survived the attack. People in this manga aren't as fragile as real life people, it is not much of a stretch that he would be able to crawl his way to somewhere where he could have his injuries treated. Of course, there is a disturbing lack of details regarding the encounter so perhaps it is not much of a stretch that something else is going on. However in general there is more than enough room for the story to make sense.

 

[reesestl]

Maybe someone saved Gildartz...so whats the problem?

 

[Holt]

I don't think there is much difference to what happened to either Serena or Gildarts. If a vital organ is taken from Gildarts he dies. For Serena it seemed a vital was hit. The physical bodies of Gildarts and Serena were overwhelmingly breached, I put it down to luck that Gildarts lives. With that amount of force I'm sure either Gildarts or Serena could be ripped anywhere on their bodies. I give Gildarts credit for surviving though, I doubt people would be there to help him.

That's my point. Gildarts gets credit for surviving and he was on the 100 year quest alone. The mere fact that he survived in such conditions is a pretty big deal.
About vitals, it's debatable to say that Serena was hit in a vital spot. Considering the bandages on Gildarts, he also apparently got hit in that general area and even more places. Based on the depictions, Gildarts likely suffered more damage but still survived.

I also consider the dragon/human form of Acnologia to be irrelevant. Well, I can see human Acno doing the exact same thing to Gildarts as it did Serena if it wanted to. The chasm between human Acno and the other 2 is that great

It's pretty relevant actually, not in that human Acbologia is weak but that dragon Acnologia would not only be physically stronger but would have a larger reach and radius of attack due to his size. That also fits in with how much apparent damage Gildarts sustained (arms, legs, organ) compared to Serena who lost only a portion.

Well, none of this really suggests gildarts was overwhelmingly stronger either. What we got was each of them using their apparently stronger (or strongest) techniques and gildarts coming out on top. Gildart is definitely the stronger one but I don't think the manga as a whole suggests a big difference.

Indeed. There isn't really a big difference, but said difference is there indeed. Though tbf, such things aren't always clear cut. When Natsu faced sting and rogue in GMG, initially, he got his ass kicked but later showed he was more than capable of taking and defeating them both. The implication is that with the way the battle ended, even though earlier exchanges didn't give the impression, Natsu was superior to sting and rogue by a pretty decent bit. That's the same way I see Gildarts and Bluenote, based on how the fight ended. Even fights don't end with such a defeat.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2016 ---

I don't think Glidarts could have survived being attacked by Acnologia unless someone saved him since mountains are hundreds of miles away from any city, town, or village. I find it suspicious Glidarts got a prothesis leg and arm when he was hundreds of miles away from any kind of city or town. I'm no doctor but Glidarts would have died have massive blood lose, circulatory shock, and infection because of his injuries.

Maybe some saved him or maybe someone didn't. Anyway, that's little to do with the point. Patching him up wouldn't have been an option if he had died to begin with. Consider Serena who pretty much died on the spot. Even if there's a doctor, it wouldn't matter if he didn't survive.

Anyway, with Gildarts, it's either he managed to crawl or find his way back to town, or he had to wait there until someone found him, either by chance or perhaps due to seeing Acnologia in the area.

 

[Brandish μ]

That's my point. Gildarts gets credit for surviving and he was on the 100 year quest alone. The mere fact that he survived in such conditions is a pretty big deal.
About vitals, it's debatable to say that Serena was hit in a vital spot. Considering the bandages on Gildarts, he also apparently got hit in that general area and even more places. Based on the depictions, Gildarts likely suffered more damage but still survived.

I do agree on Gildarts' resilience in this situation.

Well vitals or not, he was fatally wounded. I'm not a dr so Idk what organs would be where he was attacked and I'm too lazy to google it. What I'm saying is Acnologia can with ease take body parts from Serena or Gildarts to the point that they're injuries aren't attributed to their durability/strength, it's attributed to where Acnologia's attacks hit.

It's pretty relevant actually, not in that human Acbologia is weak but that dragon Acnologia would not only be physically stronger but would have a larger reach and radius of attack due to his size. That also fits in with how much apparent damage Gildarts sustained (arms, legs, organ) compared to Serena who lost only a portion.

I agree on what dragon form brings to the table. What I am questioning is would it matter at all if Acnologia was in human form. I don't think it would.

 

[reesestl]

Does non DS magic work against Dragons? o/w how do you explain Gildart going going for a quest to defeat Acno?

 

[Holt]

Does non DS magic work against Dragons? o/w how do you explain Gildart going going for a quest to defeat Acno?

He didn't go on a quest to defeat Acnologia. Or at least this wasn't stated. He went on a 100 year quest and encountered Acnologia and lost, thus being being unable to complete the quest.