But I definitely don't call Gray in 498 as casual. The moment he used the markings, that isn't casual. And I don't call it even. Invel had Gray's measure at that point.
And then there was Juvia's death... and after that his base punches were smashing Invel. The way I see it, Gray either used emotional power... or he was holding back almost everything he had in 498. If it's the latter, then what explanation can there be for holding back against a powerful opponent who froze his friends? Why would Gray become more serious, and then revert to base? Would you blame Juvia's "death" on Gray's misjudgment?
Gray does have things to come, but I think for this thread I don't count them. In a Natsu thread I won't count Dragon Force for example.
Emotions give power. PoF, and apparently darkness. Not sure what Gray used but there was a boost. He can probably replicate some of the feats without emotional boosts though.
I don't know, it really depends on how you look at it.
Gray in 498 was casual to me. I agree he did use the markings, but he didn't have any intention to go all out in his DeS form.
Sure he was trying to beat Invel, but he wasn't trying to stomp or slaughter him yet at that point.
After Juvia's death, Gray fought seriously. He was pissed and had every intention and reason to massacre Invel. But again, he was only serious in base form.
PoF and emotional boost is different.
If Gray had gone serious before and was losing, but then after Juvia died, and he miraculously oneshotted Invel, I would definitely consider that as PoF or emotional power boost.
But Gray never went serious beforehand. Half the time, he was talking to Invel in his DeS form instead of fighting. So I can't call him serious there.
As for reverting to base, I honestly don't see a problem there. Gray's form does not equate to how seriously he fights.
He went DeS mode for a second when he used Ice Make: Silver against Ajeel, but he was nowhere coming close to fighting seriously.
The most likely scenario is that "Serious Gray" reverted to base because he wanted to show Invel that he was powerful enough in that state. In other words, Gray wanted to stick it up Invel's ass.
On the above, iirc Invel said Gray gets powered by his darkness and was simply at a weak level because he was fighting. Invel orchestrated his little stage play with ice lock for the sole purpose of empowering Gray. Seeing as Juvia 'died' anyway, going by Invel's words, Gray already got stronger because of his darkness. I mean, he went from shivering from cold in Invel's presence to actually beating the guy down and remaking Ice that was even more chilly than aforementioned one. That's more than just fighting seriously or being pissed. I would even question the fact that Gray wasn't fighting seriously to begin with. Invel showed up and completely froze Natsu and Co who Gray certainly cares about, there was also the matter of recovering the guild and saving Mavis. There's absolutely no reason why Gray shouldn't fight seriously under those circumstances, it's just that he was hopelessly outmatched against Invel prior. He got a power boost when Juvia 'died' so claiming he could've replicated his fears against Invel in the initial fight is a pretty big leap. Invel himself already expected Gray to be spriggan level provided he could tap into his darkness. You can see the clear difference in how Invel assesses Gray before and after Juvia's death.
On the above, iirc Invel said Gray gets powered by his darkness and was simply at a weak level because he was fighting. Invel orchestrated his little stage play with ice lock for the sole purpose of empowering Gray. Seeing as Juvia 'died' anyway, going by Invel's words, Gray already got stronger because of his darkness. I mean, he went from shivering from cold in Invel's presence to actually beating the guy down and remaking Ice that was even more chilly than aforementioned one. That's more than just fighting seriously or being pissed. I would even question the fact that Gray wasn't fighting seriously to begin with. Invel showed up and completely froze Natsu and Co who Gray certainly cares about, there was also the matter of recovering the guild and saving Mavis. There's absolutely no reason why Gray shouldn't fight seriously under those circumstances, it's just that he was hopelessly outmatched against Invel prior. He got a power boost when Juvia 'died' so claiming he could've replicated his fears against Invel in the initial fight is a pretty big leap. Invel himself already expected Gray to be spriggan level provided he could tap into his darkness. You can see the clear difference in how Invel assesses Gray before and after Juvia's death.
If you do, then that would mean you are going by all his "gross miscalculations".
On the surface, Invel seems pretty intelligent... and if you compare him to other Spriggans, he is actually more knowledgeable than average.
But Invel has been wrong on so many accounts that he has ultimately lost his credibility imo.
First, he said that Ice Lock controls a person until 1 of them dies. That was just plain false because both Gray and Juvia were unaffected.
Second, he said his divine ice freezes all, and will even freeze Gray. That was also just plain false because instead of shattering, Gray had Invel beat in the next couple seconds.
He even admitted he had made so many mistakes and was flabbergasted that his planning and calculations were so far off.
Now, do I believe that there is some truth to Invel's words, and that there is a darkness slowly plaguing Gray? Sure, possibly.
But, do I believe that it was awakened after killing one ally? No, I call Invel's bluff.
We know that Porlyusica and Gray have been working together over the timeskip to control the effects Gray's IDeSM.
Not only that, but Gray didn't even take Invel's life for vengeance or revenge at the end of their battle.
Gray knew that the damage was already done and it was already too late. So he just backed off, he saw no point in the fight.
If anything, I think Gray has already controlled his darkness, despite Invel's attempts to taunt Gray.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! What did I just read. That is just ridiculous, I guess Naruto is weaker than Sakura then? If being scared for comedic effect is your only point then just say Erza wins, don't even give a reason.
Anyone with common sense can see the Natsu/Gray being scared of Erza thing is just a running gag/comic relief, as seen by when Gray openly challenged her when Natsu ran off, so no.
Anyways, I still see Erza taking this with extreme-diff
There's absolutely no reason why Gray shouldn't fight seriously under those circumstances, it's just that he was hopelessly outmatched against Invel prior. He got a power boost when Juvia 'died' so claiming he could've replicated his fears against Invel in the initial fight is a pretty big leap. Invel himself already expected Gray to be spriggan level provided he could tap into his darkness. You can see the clear difference in how Invel assesses Gray before and after Juvia's death.
This basically, it's nothing against Gray but he only quote on quote "glo'd up" when Juvia "died" and his darkness (?) woke up.... I just can't honestly see a situation where Gray wins this, I think he's much better at close combat than Erza, but she's no scrub either at it. Swordmanship, duh who else? Power? Erza is the epitome of power. Gray I'll give him the tacitcs/smarts but idk, for everything Gray can do to overpower her Erza can overwhelm him the very same. If what Gray did to Invel is what he was yapping about with the talk of darkness I'll still take Erza high diff-very high diff. It just makes sense
A blood lusted Gray simply has the feats of taking down a spriggan level solo, wheras Erza was floored by one, and had to receive major assistance and convenience to barely win against one with her strongest armor. It's clear as crystal Gray right now is capable of mid diffing her. It's only evident that Mashima is boasting Gray to be strong enough to fight END so it's logical why Gray would pound Erza. Erza might have superior stats in some categories but doesn't change the fact that through portrayal in their fights, Gray has been the superior fighter with his hidden potential.
Scary thing is Gray at Base was replicating these feats, DeS Gray would certainly bash Erza down and mid diff her.
A blood lusted Gray simply has the feats of taking down a spriggan level solo, wheras Erza was floored by one, and had to receive major assistance and convenience to barely win against one with her strongest armor. It's clear as crystal Gray right now is capable of mid diffing her. It's only evident that Mashima is boasting Gray to be strong enough to fight END so it's logical why Gray would pound Erza. Erza might have superior stats in some categories but doesn't change the fact that through portrayal in their fights, Gray has been the superior fighter with his hidden potential.
Scary thing is Gray at Base was replicating these feats, DeS Gray would certainly bash Erza down and mid diff her.
i do agree with blood lusted gray can mid diff erza (non blood lusted obviously).
Even then there is not a huge difference in power nakagami vs grays zeroth punches. Sure zeroth punches are stronger but not by a huge amount.
But i dont see this gray portrayal everyone keeps on talking about.
Natsu right now apparently can pretty much one shot springgan. gray has to watch his lover kill herself to beat a springgan up.
As far as i can see
Erza had difficult time against ajeel.
Gray had difficult time against Ur
Now we have gray performance against invel
And soon we will get erza performance against irene
in both these cases, erza opponents are far above grays opponents
Looking at it this way, erza would be still far above gray after the springgans are handled.
so where is this hype coming from?
Is it because gray will have a major bash with END ? But wouldn't erza be doing something then too?
i doubt erza wont be doing anything at the end. Keep in mind gray got his END plot after silver event. Irene is pretty much erza's silver (silver 2.0 if you will)
I think people are putting too much in stock that erza will be forgotten at the end, even though its completely un-mishma like behavior
In the manga I was reading.
Ur was beating crap out of base gray and lyon. We even saw ur casually over powering grays ice geyser with ice lava. After getting kicked around gray qnd lyon finally defeated ur together (gray had to use his high tier des magic andlyon had to use his finisher too). Though ur might not actually have been defeated because nienhart lost slightly after that, so I don't know
Meanwhile, ajeel even with marin help looked pretty banged up by erza who wasnt going all out . Then ajeel went all out, and basically hid from erza and did bunch of sneak attacks (he was talking about fear of invisible attack or something) because he couldn't touch erza without hidding from her.
Then with help of magical attack(around the power gmg kagura sheathed attack), erza went all out and took out ajeel.
At no point erza was ever overpowered unless you count huge aoe or sneak attacks
Though I do wonder did erza actually need help. Like I already asked you, does requip into morning star requires less power as compared to requip to random sword to deflect the axe
Then in the manga I was reading.
Invel embarrassed base gray
And was fighting des gray with one hand behind his back and saying things like
"Now, you got my attention". Throughout this exchange invel seems extremely causal. Gray expression was a lot more serious, I mean like really serious.
Till of course, gray saw his lover kill herself infront of him.
So what happened in your manga. Did ajeel not need to hide from erza to fight her? Did gray clearly say that ur is nowhere near as strong as he is? did des gray had an expression as causal as invel expression
Even in your manga, I am sure erza was much more important character in phantom arc, in heaven arc, in fighting festival arc, in tenrou arc, hell maybe even in gmg arc.
After all that can you seriously see the author of the manga making gray ten times more useful or more impressive than erza?
Do you seriously see erza needing a group of twenty to fight irene while gray solos END, a possible aconologia tier
In the manga I was reading.
Ur was beating crap out of base gray and lyon. We even saw ur casually over powering grays ice geyser with ice lava. After getting kicked around gray qnd lyon finally defeated ur together (gray had to use his high tier des magic andlyon had to use his finisher too). Though ur might not actually have been defeated because nienhart lost slightly after that, so I don't know
Meanwhile, ajeel even with marin help looked pretty banged up by erza who wasnt going all out . Then ajeel went all out, and basically hid from erza and did bunch of sneak attacks (he was talking about fear of invisible attack or something) because he couldn't touch erza without hidding from her.
Then with help of magical attack(around the power gmg kagura sheathed attack), erza went all out and took out ajeel.
At no point erza was ever overpowered unless you count huge aoe or sneak attacks
Though I do wonder did erza actually need help. Like I already asked you, does requip into morning star requires less power as compared to requip to random sword to deflect the axe
Then in the manga I was reading.
Invel embarrassed base gray
And was fighting des gray with one hand behind his back and saying things like
"Now, you got my attention". Throughout this exchange invel seems extremely causal. Gray expression was a lot more serious, I mean like really serious.
Till of course, gray saw his lover kill herself infront of him.
So what happened in your manga. Did ajeel not need to hide from erza to fight her? Did gray clearly say that ur is nowhere near as strong as he is? did des gray had an expression as causal as invel expression
Even in your manga, I am sure erza was much more important character in phantom arc, in heaven arc, in fighting festival arc, in tenrou arc, hell maybe even in gmg arc.
After all that can you seriously see the author of the manga making gray ten times more useful or more impressive than erza?
Do you seriously see erza needing a group of twenty to fight irene while gray solos END, a possible aconologia tier
Actually CR translation mentions that Gray was holding back.And seeing his performance against Invel i will say Gray wins against Erza low diff in my opinion.
i do agree with blood lusted gray can mid diff erza (non blood lusted obviously).
Even then there is not a huge difference in power nakagami vs grays zeroth punches. Sure zeroth punches are stronger but not by a huge amount.
But i dont see this gray portrayal everyone keeps on talking about.
Natsu right now apparently can pretty much one shot springgan. gray has to watch his lover kill herself to beat a springgan up.
As far as i can see
Erza had difficult time against ajeel.
Gray had difficult time against Ur
Now we have gray performance against invel
And soon we will get erza performance against irene
in both these cases, erza opponents are far above grays opponents
Looking at it this way, erza would be still far above gray after the springgans are handled.
so where is this hype coming from?
Is it because gray will have a major bash with END ? But wouldn't erza be doing something then too?
i doubt erza wont be doing anything at the end. Keep in mind gray got his END plot after silver event. Irene is pretty much erza's silver (silver 2.0 if you will)
I think people are putting too much in stock that erza will be forgotten at the end, even though its completely un-mishma like behavior
Pof or not is irrelevant, feat wise, Gray mid diffs Erza.
Why are you comparing Ajeel to Ur? One is a historia. and the other is a spriggan. If you're going to compare Ur with Erza's opponents, make it Ikaruga+ other historias Erza fought. Also it was practically Bisca+Erza vs AJeel. Gray only had difficult time because he was holding back massively. If we compare their Tartaros, and Alvares opponents, Gray has fought comparable or even stronger opponents than Erza.
Plus all spriggans should have different durabilities, so I don't see Natsu oneshotting Invel with a base casual punch. Considering Invel took on several punches from Gray.
Plus the fact is Gray defeated Invel mostly at his base form, not DeS mode. That's what scary impressive Gray's feats are. It's like hypothetically Erza with her dark wing armor defeating spriggan level opponents.
It remains to be seen whether Erza will be facing Eileen alone or with help.
Depending on her feats, the match up becomes closer.
It doesn't that work that way. Erza was never far above to begin with anyway. They were always on the same tier before this arc, and right now, Gray is now a tier or a sub tier ahead of Erza, especially when Base Gray was manhandling Invel, compared to Erza getting manhandled by one.
What is Erza going to do? She's not going to have any major relevance after the Eileen stuff is over. Her story and plot line will be settled down by then.
Meanwhile Gray will be boosted up to fight END with full demonized form and the darkness potential Invel was alluding to.
Infact darkness hidden potential from Gray going full demonized+ unknown trump card more reasons that he's going to be that above ERza. Right now Blood lusted Demonized+Trump card Gray (hype)>Enraged Base Gray/Future Erza feats (battle after Eileen is over)>> or > Current Erza
In the manga I was reading.
Ur was beating crap out of base gray and lyon. We even saw ur casually over powering grays ice geyser with ice lava. After getting kicked around gray qnd lyon finally defeated ur together (gray had to use his high tier des magic andlyon had to use his finisher too). Though ur might not actually have been defeated because nienhart lost slightly after that, so I don't know
Meanwhile, ajeel even with marin help looked pretty banged up by erza who wasnt going all out . Then ajeel went all out, and basically hid from erza and did bunch of sneak attacks (he was talking about fear of invisible attack or something) because he couldn't touch erza without hidding from her.
Then with help of magical attack(around the power gmg kagura sheathed attack), erza went all out and took out ajeel.
At no point erza was ever overpowered unless you count huge aoe or sneak attacks
Though I do wonder did erza actually need help. Like I already asked you, does requip into morning star requires less power as compared to requip to random sword to deflect the axe
Then in the manga I was reading.
Invel embarrassed base gray
And was fighting des gray with one hand behind his back and saying things like
"Now, you got my attention". Throughout this exchange invel seems extremely causal. Gray expression was a lot more serious, I mean like really serious.
Till of course, gray saw his lover kill herself infront of him.
So what happened in your manga. Did ajeel not need to hide from erza to fight her? Did gray clearly say that ur is nowhere near as strong as he is? did des gray had an expression as causal as invel expression
Even in your manga, I am sure erza was much more important character in phantom arc, in heaven arc, in fighting festival arc, in tenrou arc, hell maybe even in gmg arc.
After all that can you seriously see the author of the manga making gray ten times more useful or more impressive than erza?
Do you seriously see erza needing a group of twenty to fight irene while gray solos END, a possible aconologia tier
I don't know what manga you are reading, but Ur wasn't beating the crap out of them. She was overwhelming them. She was overwhelming a heavily nerfed holding back big time Gray (considering Base Gray's feats against Invel), and Lyon who wasn't even fighting at all... and it was done for Lyon's development that's why the battle was dragged.
Stop using Historia fights as it means something considering Heavily damaged Laxus oneshot Hades, DF Wendy broken down oneshot Ezel, and Erza defeated three historias with eye power for crying out loud.
I have said this before, but Gray's ice against fodder was more larger and more destructive than the ice he used against Ul. That shows how much nerfed Gray was in that battle. That was Base Gray's DeS attack that took down Ul. which is far inferior to DeS Gray's des attacks... No indication that Lyon used his finisher.
Also read Gray's discussion threads, for more proof of how much Gray held back in that fight.
Gray logically can oneshot Ur.
Um, there's no indication that Erza wasn't going all out. She was infact going ALL OUT. She had to resort to using nakagami armor her strongest armor for the victory with major assistance from BISCA.
Erza was overwhelmed several times in the fight, re-read it again.
LOL what? Mashima depicted Erza needed help, that's more reason she needed help. She isn't soloing a character that was dominating her and tanked all of her attacks.
and Base Gray still managed to deflect some of Invel's attacks.
Invel only fought DeS Gray shortly. and we saw that Invel was being overwhelmed before Brandish came into the picture.
That's the Gray going all out.
READ the Gray fullbuster discussion thread, that shows how much Base Gray is that ahead of Ul.
Then we see Base Gray peforming and defeating Invel, and it shows that Base Gray>>>Ul.
Lyon indicated that this Ul's strength. Gray isn't arrogant to suggest he's going to state those comments, especially against his own teacher impostor. Gray is never been the character to generally boast like that. That's Natsu's shtick.
so what we see from Gray's temperament it shows that DeS Gray is tiers above Ul. Taking into account, his level of attacks, his movement, amonst other things. Base Gray would low-mid diff Ul now. considering Ul's durability.
Facial expressions aren't good proof. Feats are proof.
Galuna Island, if you're going to bring up Heaven arc.
Fighting Festival arc, Erza wasn't really that important.
No indication that she was more important in phantom arc considering both fought their respective S-class characters.
Tenrou arc? Nope. Gray fought a character that is potentially regarded higher than Azuma, and was involved in a previous battle. Tartaros arc, Sun village arc, Alvares arc, and current arcs, Gray is a much more important character than Erza from now onwards.
Gray is going to be more useful than Erza now. How much can't be quantified.
Pof or not is irrelevant, feat wise, Gray mid diffs Erza.
Why are you comparing Ajeel to Ur? One is a historia. and the other is a spriggan. If you're going to compare Ur with Erza's opponents, make it Ikaruga+ other historias Erza fought. Also it was practically Bisca+Erza vs AJeel. Gray only had difficult time because he was holding back massively. If we compare their Tartaros, and Alvares opponents, Gray has fought comparable or even stronger opponents than Erza.
Plus all spriggans should have different durabilities, so I don't see Natsu oneshotting Invel with a base casual punch. Considering Invel took on several punches from Gray.
Plus the fact is Gray defeated Invel mostly at his base form, not DeS mode. That's what scary impressive Gray's feats are. It's like hypothetically Erza with her dark wing armor defeating spriggan level opponents.
It remains to be seen whether Erza will be facing Eileen alone or with help.
Depending on her feats, the match up becomes closer.
It doesn't that work that way. Erza was never far above to begin with anyway. They were always on the same tier before this arc, and right now, Gray is now a tier or a sub tier ahead of Erza, especially when Base Gray was manhandling Invel, compared to Erza getting manhandled by one.
What is Erza going to do? She's not going to have any major relevance after the Eileen stuff is over. Her story and plot line will be settled down by then.
Meanwhile Gray will be boosted up to fight END with full demonized form and the darkness potential Invel was alluding to.
Infact darkness hidden potential from Gray going full demonized+ unknown trump card more reasons that he's going to be that above ERza. Right now Blood lusted Demonized+Trump card Gray (hype)>Enraged Base Gray/Future Erza feats (battle after Eileen is over)>> or > Current Erza
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I don't know what manga you are reading, but Ur wasn't beating the crap out of them. She was overwhelming them. She was overwhelming a heavily nerfed holding back big time Gray (considering Base Gray's feats against Invel), and Lyon who wasn't even fighting at all... and it was done for Lyon's development that's why the battle was dragged.
Stop using Historia fights as it means something considering Heavily damaged Laxus oneshot Hades, DF Wendy broken down oneshot Ezel, and Erza defeated three historias with eye power for crying out loud.
I have said this before, but Gray's ice against fodder was more larger and more destructive than the ice he used against Ul. That shows how much nerfed Gray was in that battle. That was Base Gray's DeS attack that took down Ul. which is far inferior to DeS Gray's des attacks... No indication that Lyon used his finisher.
Also read Gray's discussion threads, for more proof of how much Gray held back in that fight.
Gray logically can oneshot Ur.
Um, there's no indication that Erza wasn't going all out. She was infact going ALL OUT. She had to resort to using nakagami armor her strongest armor for the victory with major assistance from BISCA.
Erza was overwhelmed several times in the fight, re-read it again.
LOL what? Mashima depicted Erza needed help, that's more reason she needed help. She isn't soloing a character that was dominating her and tanked all of her attacks.
and Base Gray still managed to deflect some of Invel's attacks.
Invel only fought DeS Gray shortly. and we saw that Invel was being overwhelmed before Brandish came into the picture.
That's the Gray going all out.
READ the Gray fullbuster discussion thread, that shows how much Base Gray is that ahead of Ul.
Then we see Base Gray peforming and defeating Invel, and it shows that Base Gray>>>Ul.
Lyon indicated that this Ul's strength. Gray isn't arrogant to suggest he's going to state those comments, especially against his own teacher impostor. Gray is never been the character to generally boast like that. That's Natsu's shtick.
so what we see from Gray's temperament it shows that DeS Gray is tiers above Ul. Taking into account, his level of attacks, his movement, amonst other things. Base Gray would low-mid diff Ul now. considering Ul's durability.
Facial expressions aren't good proof. Feats are proof.
Galuna Island, if you're going to bring up Heaven arc.
Fighting Festival arc, Erza wasn't really that important.
No indication that she was more important in phantom arc considering both fought their respective S-class characters.
Tenrou arc? Nope. Gray fought a character that is potentially regarded higher than Azuma, and was involved in a previous battle. Tartaros arc, Sun village arc, Alvares arc, and current arcs, Gray is a much more important character than Erza from now onwards.
Gray is going to be more useful than Erza now. How much can't be quantified.
Pof isn't irrelevant
Its cannon. People become a lot stronger with it.
Feat wise
Erza >>> base gray
Erza > des gray
Enraged base gray > erza
That's the difference between non pof gray compared to erza. historia vs springgan basically.
I cannot compare other historia fights because everyone else was seriously injured.
No, It was ajeel + marin vs erza + bisca.
you might not like it. Buts that's cannon.
Why was gray holding back in a massive war. Maybe ur was holding, maybe invel was holding back, hell maybe serena was holding back against aconologia. Why is only your favourite charater holding back? why wasn't erza holding back against ajeel, maybe she wanted bisca to shine or something. if erza learns a new attack against irene (like gray did against invel, will you say the same thing for erza) that she was hevealy nurffed against ajeel.
In tartaros, gray had huge advantage of slaying magic. In this arc, if you show people the springgan 12, they will tell you that
This arc opponent of gray is invel
And erza opponent is irene.
So no their opponents are not comparable.
We don't know on what durability is based on, as far as cannon is concerened, they might have same durabilty, we don't have evidence against this, unfortunatly. So yes, its possible that natsu can one shot enhanced ajeel too. I know its sound stupid, but we actually don't have any evidence against it.
If invel killed jellal, I have no problem believing that erza will beat the crap out of invel with No armour.
Erza was on same tier as gray! What!
That like saying erza was always on gildarts tier.
In gmg, last time they were compared before this arc and without any slaying magic advantage. Gray beat rufus high diff, rufus who was weaker or maybe as strong as one of the twin dragons. Erza without SO beat kagura high diff. Someone who was probably equal to minerva, someone said to be stronger than both twin dragons combined.
Tenrou erza was stronger than gmg gray by reasonable amount.
Remember how much blinded aria was stronger than juvia, still got one shotted. Jose one shotted gray along with elfman, but erza kept him busy for as long as natsu and gajeel fought. Also don't forget that water pistol (jupitor cannon) in that arc.
If that wasn't enough to show the huge difference then we have thunder palace, gray takes four, erza takes two hundred. And racer then blitz natsu gray and three fodders but three OS were required in a sneak attack to put erza down.
Yep, you are right, right now, lissana and gray are on the same tier, by your way of looking at things I suppose
Yes, enraged gray is probably a tier above erza. Base gray is probably two tiers below erza, and des might even be a tier below erza.
I suppose you think base gray is as strong as irene now ?
Overwhelming or beating the crap out of, big difference. Ur was causally over powering both of them. The feats gray showed before juvia death are all in line. Without pof he is much weaker than erza.
You will see pof erza against irene soon. I am sure after that you will agree with me that erza wasn't nerffed or holding back against ajeel and its all pof or ass pull. Just like gray vs invel.
AOE does not show power, natsu charging into the soldier and His fist had much larger aoe as compared to the one he used against nienhart.
Yes, erza was going all out against ajeel, just like base gray was going all out against ur and des gray against one hand behind his back invel.
Nakagami is her last time skip strongest, she will have a new one against irene, just like how gray developed his strongest attack during the fight against invel.
No erza was never overwhelmed like gray was against ur. Only when ajeel hid from her could he do any damage to her. Can you show me when she was overwhelmed?
Base gray after juvia death is pof power up. I can't compare that with erza because she hasnt used it yet.
Non pof erza is clearly superior than non pof des gray.
Why do you act like juvia death had no effect on gray? Ignoring evidence won't help you make accurate predictions.
Base gray is max as strong as ur. Giving him benefit of doubt because she was his beloved teacher. Des gray is stronger, sure. But no where near erza, still.
If facial expressions aren't proof. Then what is? How can we say erza was serious against ajeel. Maybe ajeel axe could do nothing to erza, she was just bisca development.
Ok, ok. You can ignore all the above. This the important part
Let's compare erza and gray plot wise. Meaning who is more important plot wise, nothing about power.
Gulana island. Was grays arc. Though he wasn't required, if he wasn't there lyon would have one shotted deliora and shat himself after seeing erza taking a stroll nearby. Nothing really would change. Either how let's give this to gray
Gulana arc gray 1 erza 0
Phantom arc. Both took their respective s class. But erza also saved the entire guild from jupiter cannon, and kept jose occupied for reasonable amount of time.
Phantom arc gray 1 erza 2
Heaven arc gray 1 erza 3
Fighting festival arc
Gray was cheated out of his victory, erza took out one foot soldier, saved all the girks who took the rest, stalemated laxus and took 2/3 of the thunder palace that 200 lacrimas against grays 4. She pretty much saved the entire town. So
Fighting festival arc gray 1 erza 4
OS arc
Both took out their opponents though gray had a lot of help. But let's give it a tie
OS arc gray 1 erza 4
Edolas arc gray 1 erza 4 (tie)
Tenrou arc
Both took out their opponents except erza saved the entire guild again
Tenrou arc gray 1 erza 5
Gmg arc
Everything was equal except the hidden village and the pandemonium task
Gmg gray 1 erza 6
And then we have tartaros arc
Gray 2 erza 6
Now, let's be extremely biased towards gray and say before tartaros arc both were equal, ok?
Well before silver gray and erza were less relevent to the final plot then all the dragon slayers and lucy. After silver arrived he is now a lot more relevent.
Now erza is still irrelevent to the final. Now we have irene. An arc after silver. But you think this would be different than silver event
You think that entire pattern would change so that the character you like will suddenly become so much more relevant than the character you dont seems to like even though that goes against the pattern of the entire manga.
Your little favoritism of gray is blinding you to what will most likely happen.
Irene was probably was not created to give a little erza plot for this arc, its most likely leading to end of series event, erza is not gonna be the the least relevant charcter at the end. She will probably be as important character as gray would. Like she always been
Erza would probably will not be taking a team of twenty to fight irene while gray would be soloing END. That goes against the entire story where we have constantly seen erza and gray being equally important.
I think you will be one of those people who will be extremely pissed after the irene plot. Just like the people who were pissed when erza defeated tenrou azuma even though he had the brute strenght of the entire guild behind him and etherious koyoka without any senses, or when erza suddenly released SO, even though people were so hoping she will fall behind power levels.
Keep your expectations low, not only is that a good way to read fairy tail (unless you read it for laughs) but you are already making predictions which are completly against the pattern shown.
Erza wins, what Gray did to Invel isnt anymore impressive than what Gajeel did to Bradman, he used his enemies magic against him, doesnt make him strong on his own, on top of that he was already immune to the majority of Invel's attacks.
Gray beat a spriggan solo sure, but only because that spriggan was an ice mage.
