Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Where I'm getting at is that haki and emotions are entangled, they give it a color, a quality.

Again, it's not proven.

Observation Haki senses presences as much as it can sense emotion.

You took the fact it can sense emotion and have made a claim it has something to do with quality when that's baseless.

Emotions are not entangled with Haki, that's a claim you're just making without 0 evidence.

All this about quality, that's your head canon, none of that is ever mentioned or hinted.

CoO haki allows someone to sense spiritual energies, and that includes haki.

It just sense auras and Haki capacity.

You're making claims that you can't prove.

If CoC is a shade of haki, and it carries one's will at its purest form ("embodiment of the spirit"), then Haki can carry it.

Again, it's untrue.

No evidence.

You're making ambiguous claims that literally make no sense or are remotely hinted in the Manga.

Because Haki is a spiritual energy, it's intrinsically linked to spirit traits.

Spirit traits? What? You're making ambiguous claims that have no meaning.

None of this is remotely mentioned or hinted in the Manga.

You're complicating things that have been basically explained.

CoO haki allows someone to sense feelings, willpower,

Doesn't allow one to sense willpower, completely false.

It sense emotions, auras/presences and predictions movement.

 

[Geez]

Again, it's not proven. [...]
You took the fact it can sense emotion and have made a claim it has something to do with quality when that's baseless.

Chill, no one's making A CLAIM lmao
I even specifically wrote INTERPRETATION but I guess it's not enough !
Anyway, it's not proven and that's the idea : I'm making assumptions based on "statements" that could fit in the narrative.
The thing is, as mush as it irritates you, you can't really disprove it either because if something is not written, it doesn't mean it ain't true.

Geez said:
CoO haki allows someone to sense spiritual energies, and that includes haki.

It just sense auras and Haki capacity. You're making claims that you can't prove.

See image above.
But then again, Haki is energy as it's a power. Furthermore, links like CoC/spirit and BoaT/will prove its relationship with spirit.
Thus Haki is spiritual energy and it can be sensed by CoO.

My guess is Haki is tinted by feelings, will, ambition and so on. Just like its translation implies.
CoO picks those up just as it can detect different aspects of it like aura and Haki capacity.

Again, when Rayleigh says "It's also Haki" to luffy sensing anger, it could equally mean that anger was implied as a facet of Haki.

Geez said:
If CoC is a shade of haki, and it carries one's will at its purest form ("embodiment of the spirit"), then Haki can carry it.

Again, it's untrue. No evidence.
You're making ambiguous claims that literally make no sense or are remotely hinted in the Manga.

CoC imposes one's will over an enemy.
If it imposes will, then will is carried.
CoC is a form of Haki.
It proves that Haki can carry it, even if it's just by CoC.
That's a proven link between will and haki and Breath of all things highlights it all the more.

Spirit traits? What? You're making ambiguous claims that have no meaning.
None of this is remotely mentioned or hinted in the Manga. [...]

Same response than before : no one's making a claim, if theories annoy you, disprove them.


All the small judgmental sentences are useless to the debate and discredit you

 

[Rmstorm]

Again, it's not proven.

Observation Haki senses presences as much as it can sense emotion.

You took the fact it can sense emotion and have made a claim it has something to do with quality when that's baseless.

Emotions are not entangled with Haki, that's a claim you're just making without 0 evidence.

All this about quality, that's your head canon, none of that is ever mentioned or hinted.



It just sense auras and Haki capacity.

You're making claims that you can't prove.



Again, it's untrue.

No evidence.

You're making ambiguous claims that literally make no sense or are remotely hinted in the Manga.



Spirit traits? What? You're making ambiguous claims that have no meaning.

None of this is remotely mentioned or hinted in the Manga.

You're complicating things that have been basically explained.



Doesn't allow one to sense willpower, completely false.

It sense emotions, auras/presences and predictions movement.

We know for fact haki is spiritual power due to Sanji using haki while being in Nami's body in Pubk Hazzard, when he was switched by law.

 

[john ellis]

THEORY ABOUT COC.

hey so i was thinking about it. But i believe Blackbeard, akainu and garp have all been soft confirmed CoC users. The reason? Well simple i think when CoC infuse haki into there attacks the wound those cause continue to hurt and have there "will" inflicted into the wound. Kaido, luffy and shanks wounds all hurt with the "will" of the user. Which makes sense if you consirder the fact that all the wounds were inflicted with CoC imbued attacks. Why Garp? Well simple with this updated power of infusion i simply think Garp needs it to keep up with roger. I can't imagine non CoC imfused attacks doing anything to roger. Garp was also not surprized Luffy had CoC and said o you have it too.

It's also a possible reason why gear 2 luffy hurt garp at marineford, we've seen when there will is weak CoC users like whitebeard and big mom become possible to hurt. Garp's will was very conflicted at marineford because he was hurting his own family as such. It's why luffy was able to hurt a user of infusion.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

We know for fact haki is spiritual power due to Sanji using haki while being in Nami's body in Pubk Hazzard, when he was switched by law.

We know Haki is a spiritual/magic power in essence.

Also, the ability Law used was personality swap. Whether soul/spirit is what makes up the personality, I don't know.

All I know is Sanji's personality in Nami's body knows how to use Haki and SkyWalk.

The majority of what he says is nonsense as there's no evidence for them.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2021 ---

If it imposes will, then will is carried.

I can literally quote anything you say and it literally makes no sense.

What Will is carried? lol?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2021 ---

CoC is a form of Haki.
It proves that Haki can carry it, even if it's just by CoC.

Again, what?

What does any of this mean? lol.

 

[Geez]

The majority of what he says is nonsense as there's no evidence for them.

You keep saying that but I don't see you bringing anything to the debate except long have-to-scroll empty posts.
I keep replying with quotes and images to your demands of evidence and you just don't acknowledge them.
It's useless.

I can literally quote anything you say and it literally makes no sense.
What Will is carried? lol?[...]
Again, what? What does any of this mean? lol.

Anyone can extract any sentence out of context and pretend it doesn't mean anything, ugh.

Last attempt because I know it's useless with you but it might interest people :

Spectator reacting from CoC use by Luffy on Amazon arena :
"That's the Haki of the chosen ones ! Only one in millions has that spirit !!"

1 => Haki is again depicted as a spiritual power, spiritual energy. Haki is intrinsically linked to Spirit, that's it.
2 => CoO allows someone to sense Haki, thus it can sense spiritual energy.

Gatz commenting CoC clash between Luffy and ChinJao :
"All those mighty warriors seem to have been knocked out by the clash of wills between these two men !!"

1 => CoC clash results in a clash of the fighter's wills. He didn't say in a clash of Haki, he said wills.
2 => Without CoC Haki, their wills couldn't have clashed in that fashion : CoC Haki conveyed their wills, it carried it.
3 => CoC is a type of Haki : Haki can convey will, even if it's just specific to CoC in this case.
4 => Breath of all things confirms that Zoro could convey his will to his sword.

In a common fight, you can't clash with weapons without carrying them. Same logic is applied with haki and will.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Anyone can extract any sentence out of context and pretend it doesn't mean anything, ugh.

There's literally nothing you've said that is factual, lol.

"That's the Haki of the chosen ones ! Only one in millions has that spirit !!"

Didn't say it wasn't a spiritual power, doesn't mean it's referring to spirit specifically, lol.

Magic is essentially a spiritual power because it's not explain by science.

1 => CoC clash results in a clash of the fighter's wills. He didn't say in a clash of Haki, he said wills.
2 => Without CoC Haki, their wills couldn't have clashed in that fashion : CoC Haki conveyed their wills, it carried it.
3 => CoC is a type of Haki : Haki can convey will, even if it's just specific to CoC in this case.

Wrong.

CoC is simply a clash of Haki, lol.

It also doesn't convey Wills, again, you're making up nonsense.

Can't convey the intention to eat with Haki, lol. If it really conveyed wills, it'd be capable of doing that. It'd be possible to convey to someone you want to wait 5 minutes before doing xyz... Haki has no such capabilities. Again, you make up things with your illogical inferences.

All CoC does is intimidate people, and if they're weak, they lose consciousness.

4 => Breath of all things confirms that Zoro could convey his will to his sword.

Has nothing to do with Haki.

You literally make stuff up and complicate things with pseudo spiritualism that means absolutely nothing.

 

[Nie Li]

You both should just agree to disagree.

I do agree that Breath of all things is just haki and that haki conveys willpower, but Oda didn't make the best of jobs explaining what haki is and its somewhat open interpretation makes it so these discussions become pointless (and endless) as soon as someone tries to impose his personal interpretation of what haki is or isn't onto others.

At the end of the day, you're both arguing about personal interpretations.

 

[XXGenesis]

You both should just agree to disagree.

I do agree that Breath of all things is just haki and that haki conveys willpower, but Oda didn't make the best of jobs explaining what haki is and its somewhat open interpretation makes it so these discussions become pointless (and endless) as soon as someone tries to impose his personal interpretation of what haki is or isn't onto others.

At the end of the day, you're both arguing about personal interpretations.

Exactly Pages of Pages of debating correct perspectives that are different.

Haki is no fully fleshed out. So any abscnese of evidence is no the evidence of absencese.

Everyone is providing enlightening interpretatins of the new super natural power system using the info availible.

Whter Haki is making you solid, you are using spirit, willpower w/e it's all synonimus. with the info given.

Haki hasn't been qantifiable but we know, it can't be used indefinitely it will run out, and in some manner; Only time was given on it recharging.

I'm fine with not fully understanding it right now. When we have invisible CoA, Hardened CoA, Advanced extended Aura/ Inner Aura...Then we have CoC attacks and advanced CoC attacks used with Extended Aura...CoO has so many forms..im sure some more advanced stuff is coming

 

[kkck]

He'd have been bound in Kairoseki.

You can't use Haki with Kairoseki on.

Marines would have had him in Kairoseki if they were going to try to execute or experiment on him.

It means he's durable naturally regardless of Haki.

When was that said?

 

[Nie Li]

When was that said?

Luffy couldn't use it when he was shackled with Kairouseki in Wano.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2021 ---

Though it's possible that it wouldn't affect a non-DF user like that. It's possible Luffy was simply weakened so much by it's effects that he couldn't muster the strength to use haki.

It's similar to when Luffy falls underwater. It's not just that he can't swim: he loses strength and sinks.

 

[kkck]

Luffy couldn't use it when he was shackled with Kairouseki in Wano.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2021 ---

Though it's possible that it wouldn't affect a non-DF user like that. It's possible Luffy was simply weakened so much by it's effects that he couldn't muster the strength to use haki.

It's similar to when Luffy falls underwater. It's not just that he can't swim: he loses strength and sinks.

Yeah, I could see the overall draining effect sea stone has on the user affecting their ability to use haki... Though this shouldn't result in them being utterly unable to use it, rather it'd just be severely weakened, if that. And still, as you say, this shouldn't affect normal people. Sea stone is just THAT tough.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

When was that said?

They couldn't use it at all.

Strongly suggests it can't be used.

More so, it explains why non-Df users can't escape when shackled by Seastone.

 

[kkck]

They couldn't use it at all.

Strongly suggests it can't be used.

More so, it explains why non-Df users can't escape when shackled by Seastone.

But... did they say that? Or did we see them fail at using haki when wearing sea stone? I don't recall anything like that at least. And lore wise there isn't any justification for sea stone to block haki. Sea stone supposedly works like the sea which has nothing to do with haki. Sea stone being THAT tough is a perfectly explanation as to why it is sufficient to keep non DF users contained at least.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But... did they say that?

Things don't need to be said when we're explicitly shown.

Or did we see them fail at using haki when wearing sea stone?

Indirectly stated.

Next chapter, cuffs are removed and he's using Haki.

 

[kkck]

Things don't need to be said when we're explicitly shown.

Indirectly stated.

Next chapter, cuffs are removed and he's using Haki.

Fair enough, though I would still argue the more reasonable alternative based on what we know (that kairoseki has the properties of the ocean) is that DF users are unable to use haki when exposed due being weakened by it. None of what we know about kairoseki is consistent with it universally inhibiting haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2021 ---

I mentioned this in the chapter discussion thread but there is a bit regarding yonko level fighters that has not yet been explained. There are a few instances where clashes at the top tiers have resulted in the sky splitting:

1.- First when Shanks and Whitebeard had a small skirmish.

2.- Second when Kaido and Big mom had a small skirmish.

Now, two instances where it's weird that this hasn't happened:

1.- When Roger and Whitebeard fought we saw a direct clash of their conqueror haki but we didn't see the sky splitting.
2.- The splitting sky has been absent from conqueror haki clashes between kaido an luffy so far.

Another important point is that apparently when the sky splits in these instances there has been contact between the people involved. As in, roger-wb an luffy-kaido have not made contact during their conqueror haki clashes but in turn when shanks-whitebeard and big-mon kaido split the sky there was contact between them.

So... what's the deal here? You'd think that now that luffy is straight up going to toe with kaido he'd show this as well while fighting him. Now... Here is my guess: There is another level of conqueror haki control. Essentially, the cladding and projecting we are seeing from luffy and kaido is the first stage to conqueror haki. Not sure of what the second stage would be though... Perhaps focusing it on a specific point like a weapon or fist? Maybe the logic is something like conqueror haki is ordinarily an aura which radiates... And then by becoming capable of using it you basically clad your attacks, basically it doesn't radiate in every direction. And the next stage is for it to be fully focused. In a way it'd be the opposite of armor haki which you learn how to project. At which point you are using it's full might but still making contact with your enemies. In a way it'd be the opposite of armor haki. With armor haki you learn how to project haki with more advanced skills but meanwhile with conqueror haki you learn how to focus what is otherwise just a radiating aura coming out in all directions. Anyways, that's the best crackpot theory I can some up with with the information we have....

 

[JonWickk]

Is it just me but I don’t really like the idea of users being able to coat themselves with CoC to enhance their attack. It’s kinda cool though if not it is pretty useless if it is just used for knocking out fodders. But what I don’t like about it is that it makes aCoA useless. What’s the point of Luffy training his aCoA in udon only to say his attacks were too shallow and then learn how to use CoC to hurt Kaido. Also, if two users who have mastered aCoA clash, will their attacks touch? No right since Rayleigh didn’t touch the elephant when he used aCoA. Another thing is, if you don’t have CoA but you coat yourself with CoC, can you hurt Logia users?

 

[kkck]

Is it just me but I don’t really like the idea of users being able to coat themselves with CoC to enhance their attack. It’s kinda cool though if not it is pretty useless if it is just used for knocking out fodders. But what I don’t like about it is that it makes aCoA useless. What’s the point of Luffy training his aCoA in udon only to say his attacks were too shallow and then learn how to use CoC to hurt Kaido. Also, if two users who have mastered aCoA clash, will their attacks touch? No right since Rayleigh didn’t touch the elephant when he used aCoA. Another thing is, if you don’t have CoA but you coat yourself with CoC, can you hurt Logia users?

I don't love this development either though to me the reason is a bit different. To me the issue here is that it is too powerful of a skill. One that is way too easy to lord over other people who lack it. The most likely scenario is that CoC is simply a new layer of armor that pretty much synergizes with CoA. I suppose its possible to use them separately but the most likely scenario is that they will be used together going forward. Even in the current chapter big mom uses a CoA hardened fist alongside Conquerors haki. IMO it should be possible for people whose attacks use advanced forms of CoA to not make physical contact when clashing. Since the advanced forms of haki are basically projecting your haki beyond your limbs and in some cases onto other things. That said, looking back the instances when haki is used to repel things without touching them do not involve multiple haki users. As in, luffy was repelled by the boa sisters but at the time luffy was not a haki user. Sentoumaro did the same under similar conditions. Rayleigh repelled an elephant with haki and obviously the elephant was not a haki user. There is a chance that the implication here is that projected haki from regular CoA simply does not result in clashes that don't make contact. Because reasons.

 

[Luke Beifong]

I will try to explain the way I think this new coating works. Again, it’s just the way I think it’s works, it’s not necessary the real deal.

When you use the most advanced form of CoA you make a layer of 5mm over your fist. When you add CoC Haki in this layer, she will grow to a layer of 20mm. If two user of the most advanced form of CoA clash, they probably will not touch one another.

I can be wrong, but that’s the way I’m thinking right know with all the information we have.

Why I’m thinking this? Because the Admirals, Sentomaru and the Boas Sisters don’t have CoC Haki and all of them can make barriers (Admirals and Boa Sisters) or send their Haki over a distance (Sentomaru). And the last example is Garp. I don’t see him having CoC Haki, just CoA. He fight against Rocks, Roger, WB and Shiki and survived up till now. His CoA Haki is absolutely monstrous, the layer he can make probably is just as big as the layer Roger can make with his CoC.

Having CoC Haki is overpower, but you can fight against it if you have a strong enough CoA Haki.

To make one last comment, I don’t like Zoro having CoC Haki. I prefer he have a monstrous CoA Haki, just it. But it’s just my opinion, I can be wrong about all I say.

 

[JonWickk]

I will try to explain the way I think this new coating works. Again, it’s just the way I think it’s works, it’s not necessary the real deal.

When you use the most advanced form of CoA you make a layer of 5mm over your fist. When you add CoC Haki in this layer, she will grow to a layer of 20mm. If two user of the most advanced form of CoA clash, they probably will not touch one another.

I can be wrong, but that’s the way I’m thinking right know with all the information we have.

Why I’m thinking this? Because the Admirals, Sentomaru and the Boas Sisters don’t have CoC Haki and all of them can make barriers (Admirals and Boa Sisters) or send their Haki over a distance (Sentomaru). And the last example is Garp. I don’t see him having CoC Haki, just CoA. He fight against Rocks, Roger, WB and Shiki and survived up till now. His CoA Haki is absolutely monstrous, the layer he can make probably is just as big as the layer Roger can make with his CoC.

Having CoC Haki is overpower, but you can fight against it if you have a strong enough CoA Haki.

To make one last comment, I don’t like Zoro having CoC Haki. I prefer he have a monstrous CoA Haki, just it. But it’s just my opinion, I can be wrong about all I say.

Actually it doesn't matter to me if Zoro has CoC or only CoA as long as he can cut Kaido up. The end results is what matters. No point if Luffy has CoC and deals 1000 dmg to Kaido and Zoro doesn't have CoC but can also deal 1000 damage just from CoA.