Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Nie Li]

I don't even see a source for that supposed interview.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

Are you really using that logic? Now your basically stating your just don't want to accept his word unless he said 'Yeah this is canon, don't worry guys'. If Anime and Movies are different. Him being apart of movies is for fun and not to be taken seriously while Anime it is unless your saying even Episode of Sabo is non-canon just because he stated it was too?

If Oda or anyone speaking on his name directly said "this is canon", then it is. If not, then it's not.

 

[King Moe]

WIthout cladding CoC is basically just a pretty sticker on people. For zoro's eventual victory over mihawk to matter both of them would need to be CoC users capable of cladding their attacks in it. Anything less than that and the whole thing is an unfunny joke and a waste of over 20 years of manga. As it'd be comically easy to point at strongest swordsmen than mihawk in this scenario.

That's BS. Luffy has basically been taught his most significant haki skills. Basica CoA, hardening, observation haki, CoC... he learned pretty much all of it from Mihawk. Then we had WCI and it turns out HaKi BlOoMs In AdVeRsItY and luffy got punched into learning foresight. And then luffy spent two weeks learning how to project haki and cause internal damage with CoA from hyoguro. And finally he learned he could clad himself in CoC by watching kaido. Luffy was basically taught 99% of what he knows of haki. There is no downside to teaching anyone haki. Much like how there aren't downsides to studying for a math exam. The fact is this aspect of haki is one of the sloppier writing oda has done character growth wise. None of it makes any sense and the only purpose it serves is for luffy to get random massive powerups when it suits the plot rather than when it makes sense. The fact is that FI luffy should already been familiar with every haki skill Rayleigh knew. Not necessarily be able to perform the skill in question but at least know they exist and he should strive for them. Same thing for zoro. And the moment luffy reunited with his crew he should have started teaching the haki less chumps in it so that they would at least have the basics down within a few arcs at least while also being given as much knowledge of other possible powers the gang could run into. The series tries to have it both ways, with haki not being something that can be taught in spite of the fact that 99% of what luffy is capable of haki wise was taught to him. And all for cheap reveals and uninteresting plot twists.

I mean did you thought Zoro be on top of others just being WSS as there still be those stronger than him in overall view here.

I mean why teach him everything and make plot boring if he can overpowered and beat everyone easy with Haki on everything he learns. He doesn't want free access and think Luffy like that given it's same not knowing about location of Raftel as he want the adventure to be challenging and let him and his crew figure out, not be handed to them. Kinda make sense and not really BS if you think about it.

 

[Nie Li]

@King Moe

Here you go. Your post was fake news. Now, please, stop bringing anime-only scenes.

Check the full thread, they even explain how the misunderstanding came to be.

 

[kkck]

Oda probably just gives the "yes" to anything. Hell, in this very anime arc of Wano there was the Batman fight, the Zoro going supersaiyan on Kamazou and the contradiction of Base Sanji vs X Drake and Raid Suit Sanji vs Page One.

None of them make sense as canon, and there are already plenty of fillers and movies that are directly supervised by Oda yet remain non-canon.

To me the main issue is that the OP is staggeringly bad. The absolute best the anime has to offer is still largely both painful and embarrasing to watch. You can get better animation from cartoon network's 1990s lineup. Oda, or any mangaka, having that much of a stake in that cheap mass produced barely animated turd which only butchers their work on a weekly basis is patently absurd.

 

[kkck]

I mean did you thought Zoro be on top of others just being WSS as there still be those stronger than him in overall view here.

I mean why teach him everything and make plot boring if he can overpowered and beat everyone easy with Haki on everything he learns. He doesn't want free access and think Luffy like that given it's same not knowing about location of Raftel as he want the adventure to be challenging and let him and his crew figure out, not be handed to them. Kinda make sense and not really BS if you think about it.

The problem is that there isn't any in universe reason that actually justifies not teaching them everything. Haki is 100% teachable. The only reason to not teach them is to create fake tension and provide free powerups when it suits oda rather than when it makes sense in universe.

 

[King Moe]

The problem is that there isn't any in universe reason that actually justifies not teaching them everything. Haki is 100% teachable. The only reason to not teach them is to create fake tension and provide free powerups when it suits oda rather than when it makes sense in universe.

Luffy could be that reason. He doesn't want free access just like with Raftel. So make sense if he doesn't want to know everything from Rayleigh just like before.

 

[Nie Li]

Luffy could be that reason. He doesn't want free access just like with Raftel. So make sense if he doesn't want to know everything from Rayleigh just like before.

He chose to stay on an island training for two years under Rayleigh to become stronger. He clearly isn't against Rayleigh teachnig him proper haki and there's no reason to really justify that Rayleigh didn't tell him everything. Even if we said Luffy didn't have time to learn it all in two years or simply didn't manage to do it because he wasn't in a life or death situation, he simply didn't know about haki emission or about CoC coating despite Rayleigh showing to be capable of at least haki emission.

 

[King Moe]

He chose to stay on an island training for two years under Rayleigh to become stronger. He clearly isn't against Rayleigh teachnig him proper haki and there's no reason to really justify that Rayleigh didn't tell him everything. Even if we said Luffy didn't have time to learn it all in two years or simply didn't manage to do it because he wasn't in a life or death situation, he simply didn't know about haki emission or about CoC coating despite Rayleigh showing to be capable of at least haki emission.

Again hard to say, but we do know if he did, it will kinda make arcs forward easy and no development on Luffy if he learn everything completely, so there has to be reason on that.

 

[kkck]

Luffy could be that reason. He doesn't want free access just like with Raftel. So make sense if he doesn't want to know everything from Rayleigh just like before.

But he isn't. LUffy at no point went and told Rayleigh that he didn't want to be too strong. Luffy definitely doesn't want to be told about laugh tale and its secrets but nothing in the story suggests luffy would object to Rayleigh teaching him anything. Luffy is perfectly ok with being trained by people.

 

[Nie Li]

In the end this is just a minor inconsistency on Oda's part for the shonen development's sake. Unless he somehow tells us why Rayleigh didn't teach him certain things but I doubt it.

 

[King Moe]

I mean we have to see if we get another flashback with them together on why he teaching him only the basics and not more on the subject.

 

[Ellenate]

To me the main issue is that the OP is staggeringly bad. The absolute best the anime has to offer is still largely both painful and embarrasing to watch. You can get better animation from cartoon network's 1990s lineup. Oda, or any mangaka, having that much of a stake in that cheap mass produced barely animated turd which only butchers their work on a weekly basis is patently absurd.

I've seen clips of wano and-

It's clear the animators don't even know how the powers works in this manga; the effects are all over the place.

 

[john ellis]

looking back i think we first see zoro's CoC will when he fights vs mihawk. He refused to give up and never back down, which i would argue is a quanlity of a ruler, he would rather die then give up his goals, which is something all CoC users in one piece have displayed. Although blackbeard is probably a CoC but lacks that,,,however blackbeard is unique in everything he does so...

 

[Nie Li]

looking back i think we first see zoro's CoC will when he fights vs mihawk. He refused to give up and never back down, which i would argue is a quanlity of a ruler, he would rather die then give up his goals, which is something all CoC users in one piece have displayed. Although blackbeard is probably a CoC but lacks that,,,however blackbeard is unique in everything he does so...

Haven't most strawhats shown that they'd rather die fighting than give up? Even Usopp against Mr. 4 and Miss Merry Christmas.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Zoro can only use as far as Hardened Armament and the only reason he can hurt Kaido is because:

1. Enma Modifies Haki, it has a latent ability to hurt Kaido even with weak attacks.
   Spoiler

   
2. Enma makes attack swings more powerful, thus why Zoro missed his attack and was out of breath.
   Spoiler

   
3. Also uses more Haki than necessary.

Only reason Zoro scarred Kaido is because he used its powers to the fullest or close to it. It modified his Haki and made it possible to hurt even without Flow (Advanced Haki)... it increased the power of his swing and used up a lot of his Haki if not all of it... on top of modifying it to make it always capable of hurting. Even with a weak attack, Kaido felt a throb and with a strong attack, permanent injury.

Enma literally make it unnecessary to be capable of using Flow to hurt Kaido. It's pretty much an OP Sword. There's a reason it's the only blade to have ever wounded Kaido.

King's Haki

Even with Advanced Flow and Armament, Attacks are too shallow. However, weaponised King's Haki makes attacks go deeper than Armament, thus it's capable of wounding even the likes of Kaido.

Similarity between King's Haki and Enma​

They're both capable of attacks that are deep, therefore, both are the only ways to wound Kaido significantly.

Why Kaido ASKED QUESTIONS....

Only 2 known ways for deep attacks... King's Haki and Enma.

Kaido got attacked by Asura, he sensed nothing special from the attack.

He proceeds to look at the effect of the attack, he realised the cut was a DEEP one.

What are the ways to perform deep attacks? Enma and King's Haki.

Kaido has ZERO knowledge of Enma, all he knows is it was Oden's Sword, he doesn't seemingly have a clue about its special powers.

If he doesn't understand Enma's capable of hurting him because it's special... the only thing he knows that can hurt him deeply is King's Haki, thus why he asks Zoro in disbelief if he has King's Haki because he doesn't know of any other method capable of wounding him. Had he known about Enma, he probably wouldn't be asking Zoro if he has King's Haki which is quite clear he lacks at the moment at least.

It's really no coincidence that Enma somehow... is the only Sword to wound Kaido. It's because the Sword is just that special and that powerful.

 

[hokageji]

and Kaido's scales are amongst the hardest we've seen.... probably the only other person who can a stronger defense would be Jozu i can think of. The skull at onigashima is weaker, Zoro was able to cut it and Mama was able to make a hole in it as well....

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Also seems that King's Haki is used together with Armament Haki.

Don't think King's Haki is used alone.

Reason being we saw Zoro using Armament when attacking Kaido, and then when he cut Kaido, he was asked if he used King's Haki which implies King's Haki stacks over Armament which suggests King's Haki increases the power of armament.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 19, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 19, 2021 ---

Yamato produces lightening before making any impact or clashing. Only thing is there's no trail from the weapon like we see with King's Haki.

Spoiler

Pretty odd Kaido's first Thunder Bagua on Luffy knocked him out, yet there's seemingly no trail. Perhaps, all he needed was Advanced Flow to knock Luffy out in 1 shot then.

 

[Fox666]

Pretty odd Kaido's first Thunder Bagua on Luffy knocked him out, yet there's seemingly no trail. Perhaps, all he needed was Advanced Flow to knock Luffy out in 1 shot then.

I think there was

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I think there was

It's not really similar to this though..

or this

It's not as easily discernible as the ones above, so I can't with 100% certainty say that Thunder Bagua is definitely King's Haki incorporated.

 

[Moss Green]

Enma isn’t the only sword to wound Kaido. Ame no Habakiri left the same scar Enma did and to our knowledge has no special properties.

Furthermore. Enma does not “change” quality of Haki of the person weilding it. It simply forcibly flows more Haki into the sword than the user intends. It’s literally forcing Zoro’s body to learn Haki flow, which he then will apply to the rest of his swords.

It’s amazing how Luffy and Zoro’s training are directly juxtaposed, the mechanics of the sword are clearly explained, and we still get posts about made up abilities of a sword with its abilities already explained