Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[kkck]

Mechanics wise I think CoC is pretty important at the higher tier. It's essentially a power boost which relies entirely on your willpower that those who weren't born with it simply can't use. And even those who were born with it probably won't master it. Now, we know you don't "need" CoC to damage someone who can clad himself in it but we do know getting past it requires extraordinary skill and power.

It's not impossible but... for context, how much stronger than someone with haki do you have to be to overcome him or her without haki? We saw luffy overcome haki users without haki but it required at a minimum gear 2 and then some effort. Luffy could affect kaido without conqueror haki cladding but he only became capable actually exchanging blows with kaido once CoC became a thing for him. Would luffy be able to defeat CoC kaido without using his own CoC if he was several times stronger? Probably, but getting to be 10 times stronger is no mean feat.

By all appearances CoC cladding is so astoundingly powerful that with the added context that only yonko level people can even use then I would argue it's pretty clear that zoro essentially has no chance of becoming the WSS without it. Without it he is locked out of a massive powerup which almost certainly going to be something the current WSS has. Basically these are the current WSS scenarios:

1.- Zoro and the current WSS have CoC cladding.
2.- Zoro does not have it but the current WSS has it.
3.- Zoro has it but the current WSS does not have it.
4.- Neither zoro nor the current WSS have it.

In number 2 zoro basically has no chance at the title. GG, WP but he wasn't ever even in the race.

In number 3 the WSS title is ultimately meaningless and zoro basically has an unassailable advantage over the enemy. Zoro would easily get the title on the technicality that the current generation of WSS is shit.

In number 4 the WSS title is also meaningless. Being the "WSS" in a limited category like this is just... pointless. You'd still basically lose to swordsmen who don't even think of themselves as such. In this scenario a shit new generation swordsman, zoro, would be going up against a shit old generation swordsman. They'd be so far removed from the top tiers around it's not even funny.

The only scenario where WSS genuinely means something is the one where both zoro and the current WSS have CoC, can clad themselves in it, and then duke duke it out in a battle of skill and will.

 

[King Moe]

Mechanics wise I think CoC is pretty important at the higher tier. It's essentially a power boost which relies entirely on your willpower that those who weren't born with it simply can't use. And even those who were born with it probably won't master it. Now, we know you don't "need" CoC to damage someone who can clad himself in it but we do know getting past it requires extraordinary skill and power.

It's not impossible but... for context, how much stronger than someone with haki do you have to be to overcome him or her without haki? We saw luffy overcome haki users without haki but it required at a minimum gear 2 and then some effort. Luffy could affect kaido without conqueror haki cladding but he only became capable actually exchanging blows with kaido once CoC became a thing for him. Would luffy be able to defeat CoC kaido without using his own CoC if he was several times stronger? Probably, but getting to be 10 times stronger is no mean feat.

By all appearances CoC cladding is so astoundingly powerful that with the added context that only yonko level people can even use then I would argue it's pretty clear that zoro essentially has no chance of becoming the WSS without it. Without it he is locked out of a massive powerup which almost certainly going to be something the current WSS has. Basically these are the current WSS scenarios:

1.- Zoro and the current WSS have CoC cladding.
2.- Zoro does not have it but the current WSS has it.
3.- Zoro has it but the current WSS does not have it.
4.- Neither zoro nor the current WSS have it.

In number 2 zoro basically has no chance at the title. GG, WP but he wasn't ever even in the race.

In number 3 the WSS title is ultimately meaningless and zoro basically has an unassailable advantage over the enemy. Zoro would easily get the title on the technicality that the current generation of WSS is shit.

In number 4 the WSS title is also meaningless. Being the "WSS" in a limited category like this is just... pointless. You'd still basically lose to swordsmen who don't even think of themselves as such. In this scenario a shit new generation swordsman, zoro, would be going up against a shit old generation swordsman. They'd be so far removed from the top tiers around it's not even funny.

The only scenario where WSS genuinely means something is the one where both zoro and the current WSS have CoC, can clad themselves in it, and then duke duke it out in a battle of skill and will.

Idk about Mihawk having COC or not given he didn't show any of that when time to face Jozu, Vista, or Crocodile. Think how he works is different given why would he hold back during fighting in Marineford if he did had it. Though still see him in-between of the Admirals and YCs depending given Idk being WSS really competes on the level where Yonkos and maybe even Admirals are.

 

[kkck]

Idk about Mihawk having COC or not given he didn't show any of that when time to face Jozu, Vista, or Crocodile. Think how he works is different given why would he hold back during fighting in Marineford if he did had it. Though still see him in-between of the Admirals and YCs depending given Idk being WSS really competes on the level where Yonkos and maybe even Admirals are.

We barely saw any of those confrontations at all. Sure, he did attack jozu but jozu is diamond... in that form he is probably straight up indestructible... It wouldn't be weird if he was more durable than big mom or kaido while transformed. With vista and crocodile we saw but moments of those confrontations... Add to that mihawk might or not have been fucking around pretty much the entire time. Further add to that, shanks definitely has the ability to clad himself in conqueror haki. Mihawk just wouldn't work as a rival to shanks in the scenario where shanks has this and mihawk doesn't. Add to that, CoC cladding is so OP that mihawk straight up is not the WSS if shanks has this skill and mihawk doesn't. Mihawk would definitely not tie with shanks in this regard... How would he even overcome big mom with only napoleon without CoC cladding? The way I see it at the yonko tier CoC cladding basically makes or break a fighter. Less than that and you probably are stuck around rayleigh's tier (unless rayleigh has this skill in which case you cap lower than that).

 

[JonWickk]

We barely saw any of those confrontations at all. Sure, he did attack jozu but jozu is diamond... in that form he is probably straight up indestructible... It wouldn't be weird if he was more durable than big mom or kaido while transformed. With vista and crocodile we saw but moments of those confrontations... Add to that mihawk might or not have been fucking around pretty much the entire time. Further add to that, shanks definitely has the ability to clad himself in conqueror haki. Mihawk just wouldn't work as a rival to shanks in the scenario where shanks has this and mihawk doesn't. Add to that, CoC cladding is so OP that mihawk straight up is not the WSS if shanks has this skill and mihawk doesn't. Mihawk would definitely not tie with shanks in this regard... How would he even overcome big mom with only napoleon without CoC cladding? The way I see it at the yonko tier CoC cladding basically makes or break a fighter. Less than that and you probably are stuck around rayleigh's tier (unless rayleigh has this skill in which case you cap lower than that).

I'm pretty sure Rayleigh has CoC cladding too. he has mastery of all 3 types of Haki. Would be weird and stupid if he saw his captain use it and then don't know how to use it. He could simply ask Roger to teach him lol. Furthermore due to his hype, having the epithet of the 'dark king' and Garp labelling him as a legend alongside WB, I think he does have it. Then again, nothing is actually confirmed till he actually uses it or if someone mentions it.

 

[King Moe]

We barely saw any of those confrontations at all. Sure, he did attack jozu but jozu is diamond... in that form he is probably straight up indestructible... It wouldn't be weird if he was more durable than big mom or kaido while transformed. With vista and crocodile we saw but moments of those confrontations... Add to that mihawk might or not have been fucking around pretty much the entire time. Further add to that, shanks definitely has the ability to clad himself in conqueror haki. Mihawk just wouldn't work as a rival to shanks in the scenario where shanks has this and mihawk doesn't. Add to that, CoC cladding is so OP that mihawk straight up is not the WSS if shanks has this skill and mihawk doesn't. Mihawk would definitely not tie with shanks in this regard... How would he even overcome big mom with only napoleon without CoC cladding? The way I see it at the yonko tier CoC cladding basically makes or break a fighter. Less than that and you probably are stuck around rayleigh's tier (unless rayleigh has this skill in which case you cap lower than that).

I mean we don't know back then if they were having COC fights as Shanks could have unlock it later as we still have to see and still weird he didn't try to use it at least once to push back. If he was stall by guys like that, it makes you think if you need COC to compete with someone with COC given Chinjao was having hard fight with Lao G, so maybe it's not just that to compete with someone. Though even so will still say evidence pushes Shanks stronger than compare to who Mihawk used to duel with. The fact Zoro doesn't know he has COC during his time with Mihawk kinda hints more Mihawk didn't have it himself or just didn't want to train Zoro on his, so kinda odd thing regarding him on the situation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

I'm pretty sure Rayleigh has CoC cladding too. he has mastery of all 3 types of Haki. Would be weird and stupid if he saw his captain use it and then don't know how to use it. He could simply ask Roger to teach him lol. Furthermore due to his hype, having the epithet of the 'dark king' and Garp labelling him as a legend alongside WB, I think he does have it. Then again, nothing is actually confirmed till he actually uses it or if someone mentions it.

I mean Roger Pirates had like 6 members with COC users with including Roger are Rayleigh, Gaban (Possibility more given portrayal), Oden, Bullet, and Shanks. Make sense if they are skill on harnessing COC as they got stronger and older, but don't think Prime Rayleigh was on that level like Prime Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and so on.

 

[JonWickk]

I mean we don't know back then if they were having COC fights as Shanks could have unlock it later as we still have to see and still weird he didn't try to use it at least once to push back. If he was stall by guys like that, it makes you think if you need COC to compete with someone with COC given Chinjao was having hard fight with Lao G, so maybe it's not just that to compete with someone. Though even so will still say evidence pushes Shanks stronger than compare to who Mihawk used to duel with. The fact Zoro doesn't know he has COC during his time with Mihawk kinda hints more Mihawk didn't have it himself or just didn't want to train Zoro on his, so kinda odd thing regarding him on the situation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

I mean Roger Pirates had like 6 members with COC users with including Roger are Rayleigh, Gaban (Possibility more given portrayal), Oden, Bullet, and Shanks. Make sense if they are skill on harnessing COC as they got stronger and older, but don't think Prime Rayleigh was on that level like Prime Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and so on.

It actually depends on how big your level is. If Roger and WB are 100, I would rate Rayleigh 95-99. I would say they are on the same level but Rayleigh isn’t as strong as Roger and WB.

 

[Moss Green]

I think Oda has really written himself into a corner by not laying the foundations for the rest of the Strawhats to have Haki, CoA in particular. Though I’m not convinced it could work mechanically for Nami just yet, Oda has shown the her to be capable of performing Blue Walk so the foundations of physical strength may already be there to adjust her fighting style. But it’s getting harder to suspend my disbelief that anyone other than the Top 4 Strawhats will really right at this level as anything other than fodder control.

The 5 SN are obviously closer to the top of the food chain strength-wise but it has been consistently shown that attacks from Zeus and now Hera are really just cosmetic damage-wise, which shouldn’t be the case. Now Nami can still pump Zeus up to increase the output significantly but Usopp’s Pop Greens are just clearly not getting it done at this level and the enemies won’t be getting weaker. He should be setting up their internal struggles with their own weakness to be what pushes them over the top, but it’s hard to see how it would make sense to do so at this point in time. Even though Usopp already has CoO, though why Oda hasn’t at the very least started to highlight it in this battle is beyond me. I’m not even sure he could coat them in CoA because they’re living things.

For the rest the foundations are already in place and I still hope some will unlock it by the end, or in their upcoming fights here on Onigashima/Wano when it drops on the capital

• Franky - Would need to lean away from the mecha-transformations a bit but the fight with Señor Pink shows he will still duke it out
• Chopper - No brainer
• Robin - No brainer
• Brooke - No brainer

I don’t expect Nami and Usopp to become powerhouses by the end of the series, but their fears and struggles should ultimately come with growth. Or it will all feel worthless in the end

 

[kkck]

I mean we don't know back then if they were having COC fights as Shanks could have unlock it later as we still have to see and still weird he didn't try to use it at least once to push back. If he was stall by guys like that, it makes you think if you need COC to compete with someone with COC given Chinjao was having hard fight with Lao G, so maybe it's not just that to compete with someone. Though even so will still say evidence pushes Shanks stronger than compare to who Mihawk used to duel with. The fact Zoro doesn't know he has COC during his time with Mihawk kinda hints more Mihawk didn't have it himself or just didn't want to train Zoro on his, so kinda odd thing regarding him on the situation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

I mean Roger Pirates had like 6 members with COC users with including Roger are Rayleigh, Gaban (Possibility more given portrayal), Oden, Bullet, and Shanks. Make sense if they are skill on harnessing COC as they got stronger and older, but don't think Prime Rayleigh was on that level like Prime Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and so on.

Here I make a distinction between people who can clad themselves in CoC and those who can't. Chinjao has CoC but he isn't someone who can clad himself in it. Basically he isn't someone for whom CoC makes a difference in combat.

I am not inclined to thinking Raileigh had the ability to clad himself in CoC. Mostly because when he was showing luffy the different types of haki he used what appear to be advanced skills but when it comes to CoC he stuck to the lowest most unsuable level. Of course, Rayleigh's training was BS in that Rayleigh definitely didn't teach luffy all the skills or how they worked, otherwise luffy would have been able to use them earlier. Rayleigh taught luffy CoA but he didn't explain things further than hardening even though projection is an absurdly useful skill. Rayleigh mentioned foresight IIRC but he never trained luffy in the specifics. And obviously Rayleigh didnt teach luffy how to use internal damage.

Shanks wise the issue remains that shanks IS a swordsman. Even if shanks doesn't care about the title or even the martial arts aspect of it any scenario where shanks is a swordsman and stronger than mihawk means that zoro defeating mihawk simply does not get him his goal. The absolute bare minimum of strength Mihawk can have so that he works as an endgame enemy to zoro's quest to become WSS is equal to shanks. Anything below and zoro just isn't the WSS after defeating mihawk. The only way oda can sort of cheat here and make shanks not be a consideration on a cheap technicality is him having obtained a devil fruit which he uses actively in combat thus isn't considered a swordsman. But as I said, cheating. Zoro obviously won't be the strongest in the world by the time the manga is over but as far as I am concerned if zoro can't win, say, against big mom + napoleon then he isn't the WSS (I am willing to give him a pass on the other homies though).

 

[King Moe]

It actually depends on how big your level is. If Roger and WB are 100, I would rate Rayleigh 95-99. I would say they are on the same level but Rayleigh isn’t as strong as Roger and WB.

Idk on that. I don't think it be too close, but not too far either. I would put him on 90 or a bit on 80s, but have to see, but do know as well with Gaban it be High-Diff fight when facing Roger or Whitebeard.

 

[Nie Li]

Idk on that. I don't think it be too close, but not too far either. I would put him on 90 or a bit on 80s, but have to see, but do know as well with Gaban it be High-Diff fight when facing Roger or Whitebeard.

Gaban hasn't got any kind of recognition in the story so far other than being the "Copper" of the crew (implying he's weaker than Rayleigh).

 

[King Moe]

Here I make a distinction between people who can clad themselves in CoC and those who can't. Chinjao has CoC but he isn't someone who can clad himself in it. Basically he isn't someone for whom CoC makes a difference in combat.

I am not inclined to thinking Raileigh had the ability to clad himself in CoC. Mostly because when he was showing luffy the different types of haki he used what appear to be advanced skills but when it comes to CoC he stuck to the lowest most unsuable level. Of course, Rayleigh's training was BS in that Rayleigh definitely didn't teach luffy all the skills or how they worked, otherwise luffy would have been able to use them earlier. Rayleigh taught luffy CoA but he didn't explain things further than hardening even though projection is an absurdly useful skill. Rayleigh mentioned foresight IIRC but he never trained luffy in the specifics. And obviously Rayleigh didnt teach luffy how to use internal damage.

Shanks wise the issue remains that shanks IS a swordsman. Even if shanks doesn't care about the title or even the martial arts aspect of it any scenario where shanks is a swordsman and stronger than mihawk means that zoro defeating mihawk simply does not get him his goal. The absolute bare minimum of strength Mihawk can have so that he works as an endgame enemy to zoro's quest to become WSS is equal to shanks. Anything below and zoro just isn't the WSS after defeating mihawk. The only way oda can sort of cheat here and make shanks not be a consideration on a cheap technicality is him having obtained a devil fruit which he uses actively in combat thus isn't considered a swordsman. But as I said, cheating. Zoro obviously won't be the strongest in the world by the time the manga is over but as far as I am concerned if zoro can't win, say, against big mom + napoleon then he isn't the WSS (I am willing to give him a pass on the other homies though).

Do you think Mihawk could have COC, but unlike Shanks isn't on level that he can hit you from far away?

I wouldn't call it BS on Rayleigh side as who knows as he did want Luffy learn more himself than teach him everything on the matter. So make sense as he should still learn things on his own than get everything handed to him as it won't feel much earned during his upcoming fights. and too easy on battles too.

Shanks is more of swordsman if he can use COC to attack from afar meaning he will fight you even without the sword. I wouldn't call him true swordsman otherwise Whitebeard has a weapon that is counted as a 'sword', but he isn't WSS though. There can be those above Zoro, but they not into WSS side unlike him and Mihawk as they skill in different areas than just on a weapon as shown. I mean even when Zoro becoming WSS, he won't be strongest of all as there be those who be in PK Tier who are stronger than him.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

Gaban hasn't got any kind of recognition in the story so far other than being the "Copper" of the crew (implying he's weaker than Rayleigh).

His fight on handling Oden heavily implied that (Yes it is canon. Staff stated on Twitter that be extending flashback scenes including Roger Pirates vs Whitebeard Pirates. Please don't say it's non-canon even with that evidence). Gaban is one of his top guys shown how he both him Rayleigh lead and didn't shown concern on Oden and would happily fight him. To fight off a guy who has COC, possible for him to have it and not farfetched to say that.

 

[Nie Li]

His fight on handling Oden heavily implied that (Yes it is canon. Staff stated on Twitter that be extending flashback scenes including Roger Pirates vs Whitebeard Pirates. Please don't say it's non-canon even with that evidence). Gaban is one of his top guys shown how he both him Rayleigh lead and didn't shown concern on Oden and would happily fight him. To fight off a guy who has COC, possible for him to have it and not farfetched to say that.

Bring proof. Actually post proof.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

And anime staff saying on Twitter that they extended scenes doesn't make said scenes canon.

 

[King Moe]

Bring proof. Actually post proof.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

And anime staff saying on Twitter that they extended scenes doesn't make said scenes canon.

It is stated on Twitter. Check their account as many discuss them saying it publicly.

It does if they stated next to the talk they were in talks with Oda, so what would Anime Staff talk to author of same series they are animating? If you think Oda won't say or give say on scenes then that is headcannon when they stated they are in 'talks' with him.

 

[Nie Li]

It is stated on Twitter. Check their account as many discuss them saying it publicly.

It does if they stated next to the talk they were in talks with Oda, so what would Anime Staff talk to author of same series they are animating? If you think Oda won't say or give say on scenes then that is headcannon when they stated they are in 'talks' with him.

Yeah, no. Post proof that an anime-only scene is canon or don't use it as a canon argument. You're already known for cherrypicking the anime scenes that you want to consider canon or not.

I see GabanVRayleigh will eventually become the new SanjiVZoro. How fitting.

 

[King Moe]

Yeah, no. Post proof that an anime-only scene is canon or don't use it as a canon argument. You're already known for cherrypicking the anime scenes that you want to consider canon or not.

I see GabanVRayleigh will eventually become the new SanjiVZoro. How fitting.

Why you bringing Z vs S into this when we talking about Rayleigh and Gaban showing proof on being top guys after Roger?

Stated from translation link: Soulstorm on Twitter: "The Oden flashback will start during the month of February 2021. Staff: “When drawing a battle in the anime that did not appear in the manga, we will make sure we have Oda's approval, and we will express it and merge it with the manga content as much as possible.” https://t.co/34TMsFIH0w" / Twitter

 

[kkck]

Do you think Mihawk could have COC, but unlike Shanks isn't on level that he can hit you from far away?

I wouldn't call it BS on Rayleigh side as who knows as he did want Luffy learn more himself than teach him everything on the matter. So make sense as he should still learn things on his own than get everything handed to him as it won't feel much earned during his upcoming fights. and too easy on battles too.

Shanks is more of swordsman if he can use COC to attack from afar meaning he will fight you even without the sword. I wouldn't call him true swordsman otherwise Whitebeard has a weapon that is counted as a 'sword', but he isn't WSS though. There can be those above Zoro, but they not into WSS side unlike him and Mihawk as they skill in different areas than just on a weapon as shown. I mean even when Zoro becoming WSS, he won't be strongest of all as there be those who be in PK Tier who are stronger than him.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

His fight on handling Oden heavily implied that (Yes it is canon. Staff stated on Twitter that be extending flashback scenes including Roger Pirates vs Whitebeard Pirates. Please don't say it's non-canon even with that evidence). Gaban is one of his top guys shown how he both him Rayleigh lead and didn't shown concern on Oden and would happily fight him. To fight off a guy who has COC, possible for him to have it and not farfetched to say that.

WIthout cladding CoC is basically just a pretty sticker on people. For zoro's eventual victory over mihawk to matter both of them would need to be CoC users capable of cladding their attacks in it. Anything less than that and the whole thing is an unfunny joke and a waste of over 20 years of manga. As it'd be comically easy to point at strongest swordsmen than mihawk in this scenario.

That's BS. Luffy has basically been taught his most significant haki skills. Basica CoA, hardening, observation haki, CoC... he learned pretty much all of it from Mihawk. Then we had WCI and it turns out HaKi BlOoMs In AdVeRsItY and luffy got punched into learning foresight. And then luffy spent two weeks learning how to project haki and cause internal damage with CoA from hyoguro. And finally he learned he could clad himself in CoC by watching kaido. Luffy was basically taught 99% of what he knows of haki. There is no downside to teaching anyone haki. Much like how there aren't downsides to studying for a math exam. The fact is this aspect of haki is one of the sloppier writing oda has done character growth wise. None of it makes any sense and the only purpose it serves is for luffy to get random massive powerups when it suits the plot rather than when it makes sense. The fact is that FI luffy should already been familiar with every haki skill Rayleigh knew. Not necessarily be able to perform the skill in question but at least know they exist and he should strive for them. Same thing for zoro. And the moment luffy reunited with his crew he should have started teaching the haki less chumps in it so that they would at least have the basics down within a few arcs at least while also being given as much knowledge of other possible powers the gang could run into. The series tries to have it both ways, with haki not being something that can be taught in spite of the fact that 99% of what luffy is capable of haki wise was taught to him. And all for cheap reveals and uninteresting plot twists.

 

[Nie Li]

Why you bringing Z vs S into this when we talking about Rayleigh and Gaban showing proof on being top guys after Roger?

Stated from translation link: Soulstorm on Twitter: "The Oden flashback will start during the month of February 2021. Staff: “When drawing a battle in the anime that did not appear in the manga, we will make sure we have Oda's approval, and we will express it and merge it with the manga content as much as possible.” https://t.co/34TMsFIH0w" / Twitter

Oda approved the movies and that doesn't make them canon, does it?

 

[kkck]

Why you bringing Z vs S into this when we talking about Rayleigh and Gaban showing proof on being top guys after Roger?

Stated from translation link: Soulstorm on Twitter: "The Oden flashback will start during the month of February 2021. Staff: “When drawing a battle in the anime that did not appear in the manga, we will make sure we have Oda's approval, and we will express it and merge it with the manga content as much as possible.” https://t.co/34TMsFIH0w" / Twitter

As far as I am concerned that's not canon. Oda's approval? Who gives a crap? That's just a bunch of assholes making one of the worst anime out there asking a mangaka who probably doesn't give a crap about whether he "approves" of scenes. Pure nonsense.

 

[Nie Li]

As far as I am concerned that's not canon. Oda's approval? Who gives a crap? That's just a bunch of assholes making one of the worst anime out there asking a mangaka who probably doesn't give a crap about whether he "approves" of scenes. Pure nonsense.

Oda probably just gives the "yes" to anything. Hell, in this very anime arc of Wano there was the Batman fight, the Zoro going supersaiyan on Kamazou and the contradiction of Base Sanji vs X Drake and Raid Suit Sanji vs Page One.

None of them make sense as canon, and there are already plenty of fillers and movies that are directly supervised by Oda yet remain non-canon.

 

[King Moe]

Oda approved the movies and that doesn't make them canon, does it?

Are you really using that logic? Now your basically stating your just don't want to accept his word unless he said 'Yeah this is canon, don't worry guys'. If Anime and Movies are different. Him being apart of movies is for fun and not to be taken seriously while Anime it is unless your saying even Episode of Sabo is non-canon just because he stated it was too?