Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Nie Li]

No shit you were being sarcastic

It's entirely possible Zoro has CoC. I have said this several times. It's possible, but due to Kaido being unsure. I am unconvinced until I know for sure Zoro has it. Nothing we've seen so far tells us he has it.

It's one thing to be unconvinced, it's another to deny it entirely, which yes, you have done. But I accept and respect your change of position.

There are multiple times Kaido AND Big Mom said Enma was strange or alluded to it in some why and your counter is basically "nope its Zoro's haki" like somehow Zoro's haki is special in some way lol.

1- Zoro's haki may very well be special if it's related in any way to the techniques he had started to develop back in Enies Lobby, and of course to Ashura.
2- Big Mom mentioned the sword not being normal because it abnormally swelled up with haki. Kaido mentioned the haki being weird which is an extremely vague comment. Certainly too vague to jump to the conclusion that the person most qualified to talk about Enma in the world, that particular blacksmith, didn't know what he was talking about.

Come on now.

Do you think Zoro could have gotten this far without Enma? Please.

Zoro would have been able to use ANY sword if all Enma did was drain his haki and send it out.

Talk about cherry picking

You put a lot of words in my mouth.

I've never once said that Zoro could have gotten this far without Enma (though I do argue that Zoro has not only gotten there thanks to Enma).

Let me quote myself. I made a post about Enma today.

There's another thing that everyone should take into account: Zoro has not tamed Enma yet, he has only gotten better at using it. Oden is still the only man who has tamed it. Meaning? Oden mastered it's use, so for him wielding Enma is no different than Zoro wielding Wado. Enma is a sword that forcefully draws (flows) haki from the wielder, making his slashes much stronger at the price of rapidly depleting the haki it steals for said attacks. It's basically forcing Zoro to use advanced haki in a way he's still not capable to use intentionally, hence boosting him. If Zoro ever tames Enma, and he will, he will not only become better at having Enma only draw the exact amount of haki that he wants, he's likely to also learn how to move haki around easier. Enma is still merely using Zoro's haki, so Zoro has the potential of doing what he's doing with the rest of his swords if he learns how to do it, which he will by the time he tames Enma, and by then it shouldn't be so taxing on him as it will be less forceful than it's now.

Oden, as man who had tamed Enma, could have scarred Kaido even if he wasn't wielding it, but it's still a very high grade sword with a great potential to make its wielders stronger.

This is why no, I don't believe at all Zoro would have been able to use any sword instead of Enma. Enma is still necessary for him, because he still cannot move his haki around the way Enma forces him to.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's one thing to be unconvinced, it's another to deny it entirely, which yes, you have done. But I accept and respect your change of position.


1- Zoro's haki may very well be special if it's related in any way to the techniques he had started to develop back in Enies Lobby, and of course to Ashura.
2- Big Mom mentioned the sword not being normal because it abnormally swelled up with haki. Kaido mentioned the haki being weird which is an extremely vague comment. Certainly too vague to jump to the conclusion that the person most qualified to talk about Enma in the world, that particular blacksmith, didn't know what he was talking about.


You put a lot of words in my mouth.

I've never once said that Zoro could have gotten this far without Enma (though I do argue that Zoro has not only gotten there thanks to Enma).

Let me quote myself. I made a post about Enma today.

This is why no, I don't believe at all Zoro would have been able to use any sword instead of Enma. Enma is still necessary for him, because he still cannot move his haki around the way Enma forces him to.

The fact that Zoro possibly has CoC but doesn't know should tell us Mihawk didn't teach him about it. It's possible Mihawk doesn't have it or Zoro not knowing makes no sense.

^^^ Me, not changing my opinion, from a few months ago. I'm unconvinced =I don't think he has CoC. Don't lie about me

And I'm not putting words in your mouth so maybe learn to read fully before coming back at me? I ASKED you, if you thought Zoro could have come so far without Enma. I was asking a question, not saying that's what you said. The fact that you misread that only confirms you think a question "Don't tell me, you have CoC as well?" Is a fact "You have CoC as well!"

But let's not pretend like your not going to drop the discussion with a "Your arguing in circles so I'm gunna stop responding" excuse you pull any time you get cornered.

 

[Moss Green]

So Kaido, one of the 4 currently known CoC cladding Haki users somehow doesn’t know how to recognize it 1 character, despite Luffy displaying it to him while unconscious? Despite being one of the 4 known people with the highest mastery of it? HE is confused???? Is there something I’m missing? We can’t be reading the same story

When Kaido said the Scabbards had “Oden’s Haki” was he referring to the copies of Enma they were using that they ordered from Amazon? Or from the Flow technique they learned from watching him. Or maybe Kaido associates all these techniques with Oden because he’s the last swordsman he’s faced to injure him without CoC cladding?

 

[Nie Li]

^^^ Me, not changing my opinion, from a few months ago. I'm unconvinced =I don't think he has CoC. Don't lie about me

I'm not going to go scavenging, I know that you have in other posts, but damn! To actually pull a post in where you acknowledge Zoro could have CoC but use it to argue that Mihawk then can't possibly have it. xD That is even worse, and it's so you.

And I'm not putting words in your mouth so maybe learn to read fully before coming back at me? I ASKED you, if you thought Zoro could have come so far without Enma. I was asking a question, not saying that's what you said. The fact that you misread that only confirms you think a question "Don't tell me, you have CoC as well?" Is a fact "You have CoC as well!"

You "ASKED" me and then said "Talk about cherry picking", making implications.

Don't throw a stone and then hide your hand.

But let's not pretend like your not going to drop the discussion with a "Your arguing in circles so I'm gunna stop responding" excuse you pull any time you get cornered.

I'm sorry that not following you in cyclic arguments in which you simply repeat the same argument over and over going nowhere has made you mad.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So Kaido, one of the 4 currently known CoC cladding Haki users somehow doesn’t know how to recognize it 1 character, despite Luffy displaying it to him while unconscious? Despite being one of the 4 known people with the highest mastery of it? HE is confused???? Is there something I’m missing? We can’t be reading the same story

When Kaido said the Scabbards had “Oden’s Haki” was he referring to the copies of Enma they were using that they ordered from Amazon? Or from the Flow technique they learned from watching him. Or maybe Kaido associates all these techniques with Oden because he’s the last swordsman he’s faced to injure him without CoC cladding?

See that's where your mistaken, Kaido can only be hurt rarely. And even more rarely does he get scarres so you have Zoro(who is ultimately a badass) scar him. What else was he gunna think? Kaido for as knowledgeable as he is, does not have the context we readers do.

Kaido was confused about the scabbards hurting him as well. Kaido isn't all knowing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2021 ---

You "ASKED" me and then said "Talk about cherry picking", making implications.

Don't throw a stone and then hide your hand.

You are cherry picking between Zoro/CoC and Zoro/Enma.

Those are 2 seperate paragraphs. 2 seperate talking points. Again, are you even reading my posts correctly? Because you then go on to say I think Mihawk doesn't have CoC when I'm saying it's possible he doesn't. It's "So me..." because my points are logical an based on fact, not headcanon.

I didn't say "Mihawak CANT POSSIBLY have CoC"

I said:

"It's POSSIBLE he doesn't"

Your not even reading my posts correctly

 

[Nie Li]

You are cherry picking between Zoro/CoC and Zoro/Enma.

Alright, go ahead: explain how am I cherry picking between that.

It's "So me..." because my points are logical an based on fact, not headcanon.

You make almost as many contradicting posts daily as King Moe. Only almost, though.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Alright, go ahead: explain how am I cherry picking between that.


You make almost as many contradicting posts daily as King Moe. Only almost, though.

You don't know what contradicting means if you think I'm making them so often.

You don't even know the difference between someone saying "Mihawk possibly has CoC" and "Mihawk can't possibly have CoC"

At least I'm not biased in my arguments. Your as biased as Nik used to be before he started trolling. Be careful, it's a fine line bro

 

[Nie Li]

You are cherry picking between Zoro/CoC and Zoro/Enma.

Those are 2 seperate paragraphs. 2 seperate talking points. Again, are you even reading my posts correctly?

Also about this.

Come on now.

Do you think Zoro could have gotten this far without Enma? Please.

Zoro would have been able to use ANY sword if all Enma did was drain his haki and send it out.

Talk about cherry picking

Yeaaah... two separate talking points.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2021 ---

You don't know what contradicting means if you think I'm making them so often.

You don't even know the difference between someone saying "Mihawk possibly has CoC" and "Mihawk can't possibly have CoC"

At least I'm not biased in my arguments. Your as biased as Nik used to be before he started trolling. Be careful, it's a fine line bro

I ask you to explain something and you pull this. Okay. xD

I know what contradicting means perfectly well, thank you. Yes, you do.

But if this is the road you're taking with this argument then I leave it here before I have to moderate.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Also about this.



Yeaaah... two separate talking points.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2021 ---

I ask you to explain something and you pull this. Okay. xD

I know what contradicting means perfectly well, thank you. Yes, you do.

But if this is the road you're taking with this argument then I leave it here before I have to moderate.

Way to avoid my post. Fine, we can leave it. It's unfortunate your mod or I would have just blocked you by now.

I would love to start this back up when we learn more about Enma and Zoro learning to fully master it. (At least long enough for me to say, "told ya so")

 

[Fox666]

Usually, when a character is a CoC user, they have some relation to royalty. This can even be meta, rather than something in the actual story, such as Sengoku being known as the "Monkey King".

While Mihawk lives in a castle, there was never any hint of a connection to royalty. Mihawk is based on Dracula, while at some point being known as the "Vampire King", it's not very common. However, Dracula was inspired by Vlad the Impaler, who was a ruler.

In-universe, all known CoC have a natural ability to command and inspire others. Mihawk has never shown such tendency, if anything he's a loner and anti-social.

So I think it's not impossible, but very unlikely that Mihawk is a CoC user.

 

[Moss Green]

See that's where your mistaken, Kaido can only be hurt rarely. And even more rarely does he get scarres so you have Zoro(who is ultimately a badass) scar him. What else was he gunna think? Kaido for as knowledgeable as he is, does not have the context we readers do.

Kaido was confused about the scabbards hurting him as well. Kaido isn't all knowing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2021 ---

So you didn’t quite mean it this way but herein lies a major inconsistency regarding these new Haki techniques pre-CoC cladding. Oda didn’t provide a visual or named-attack way of identifying them. Which ultimately forces us to speculate where Luffy used it other than his first attack which reminded Kaido of the top tiers.

However, how an attack hurt him and WHAT KIND of attack it is are two different things. There is no reason for Kaido to confuse CoC in a chapter titled Color of the Conqueror. That literally, and I do mean literally, makes zero sense. It’s the same thing with their training. Oda the writer is literally putting these 2 characters in the same chapters learning the same techniques/unlocking the same abilities at different stages but you say they’re unrelated because of a question mark in Kaido’s sentence? That can’t make sense to you

PS. Zoro has CoC so will any swordsman he faces for WSS. Whether they can clad at the time will be a different story. Zoro won’t be stronger than his opponent going into that fight aka. they will clad and he won’t be able to intially

 

[Pirate Queen]

Usually, when a character is a CoC user, they have some relation to royalty. This can even be meta, rather than something in the actual story, such as Sengoku being known as the "Monkey King".

While Mihawk lives in a castle, there was never any hint of a connection to royalty. Mihawk is based on Dracula, while at some point being known as the "Vampire King", it's not very common. However, Dracula was inspired by Vlad the Impaler, who was a ruler.

In-universe, all known CoC have a natural ability to command and inspire others. Mihawk has never shown such tendency, if anything he's a loner and anti-social.

So I think it's not impossible, but very unlikely that Mihawk is a CoC user.

He sits above all swordsmen. That's pretty Kingly if you ask me.

 

[Nie Li]

Way to avoid my post. Fine, we can leave it. It's unfortunate your mod or I would have just blocked you by now.

- Asked to explain something
- Doesn't explain and instead makes a whole post trying to make fun of who asked
- "'kay bye"
- "Way to avoid my post"
confusion.jpg

Just block me, you can.

Usually, when a character is a CoC user, they have some relation to royalty. This can even be meta, rather than something in the actual story, such as Sengoku being known as the "Monkey King".

While Mihawk lives in a castle, there was never any hint of a connection to royalty. Mihawk is based on Dracula, while at some point being known as the "Vampire King", it's not very common. However, Dracula was inspired by Vlad the Impaler, who was a ruler.

In-universe, all known CoC have a natural ability to command and inspire others. Mihawk has never shown such tendency, if anything he's a loner and anti-social.

So I think it's not impossible, but very unlikely that Mihawk is a CoC user.

Now that we know that every other top tier swordsman in the series uses CoC it's pretty much a must for him to have it.

If Mihawk somehow is the strongest among them without CoC then I don't know what to say anymore.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So you didn’t quite mean it this way but herein lies a major inconsistency regarding these new Haki techniques pre-CoC cladding. Oda didn’t provide a visual or named-attack way of identifying them. Which ultimately forces us to speculate where Luffy used it other than his first attack which reminded Kaido of the top tiers.

However, how an attack hurt him and WHAT KIND of attack it is are two different things. There is no reason for Kaido to confuse CoC in a chapter titled Color of the Conqueror. That literally, and I do mean literally, makes zero sense. It’s the same thing with their training. Oda the writer is literally putting these 2 characters in the same chapters learning the same techniques/unlocking the same abilities at different stages but you say they’re unrelated because of a question mark in Kaido’s sentence? That can’t make sense to you

PS. If Zoro has CoC so will any swordsman he faces for WSS. Whether they can clad at the time will be a different story. Zoro won’t be stronger than his opponent going into that fight aka. they will clad and he won’t be able to intially

He did, we call them CoC clashes and Black lighteing shoots out from the epicenter. It just doesn't coat the attacks

Unless I am misunderstanding you

 

[Nie Li]

PS. Zoro has CoC so will any swordsman he faces for WSS. Whether they can clad at the time will be a different story. Zoro won’t be stronger than his opponent going into that fight aka. they will clad and he won’t be able to intially

I don't think King will be a CoC user. Tbh if an opponent can't clad it it's pretty much useless to have it.

Shiryu on the other hand may have it since he's a very important subboss for Zoro's power creep.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Just block me, you can.
.

You can't block a mod silly...

 

[Nie Li]

You can't block a mod silly...

Well, you're right. I had never tried to. What a sad revelation.

 

[Fox666]

He did, we call them CoC clashes and Black lighteing shoots out from the epicenter. It just doesn't coat the attacks

Unless I am misunderstanding you

Not necessarily

The difference with CoC so far is that the shockwave reverberated through the entire area, while regular CoA users have the black lines limited to the point of impact.

 

[Moss Green]

He did, we call them CoC clashes and Black lighteing shoots out from the epicenter. It just doesn't coat the attacks

Unless I am misunderstanding you

Yea I’m talking about Flow and Internal not CoC. But even the black lightning shown with these attacks is consistently used elsewhere in the manga for other kinds of attacks/clashes. Luffy vs Ulti for example and she certainly doesn’t have King’s

 

[Nie Li]

Not necessarily

The difference with CoC so far is that the shockwave reverberated through the entire area, while regular CoA users have the black lines limited to the point of impact.

I think Oda is just very inconsistent when depicting haki in action. Most of the times he just goes for the cool factor. Trying to make absolute rules out of his way of depicting it just brings headaches.