Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[nik87]

That's where you're wrong.

I don't think that, the Manga states so, therefore, I believe that.

Where is it stated that Haki is Goken?

Hold your horses. Term BOAT is used how many times? One single time. Wouldnt you think the most important thing for swordsmen would be used more than once? What manga stated about BOAT is open to interpretation. Let's not claim BOAT to be something we are not sure about. You can say you are sure about it, fair enough but I am not. If BOAT is the ultimate move of a swordsman why no swordsman is focusing on it? Not even Zoro has mentioned it ever again since Alabasta. Why was Vista, swordsman of comparable caliber to Mihawk, not able to cut Akainu? Someone like that should be a master of BOAT.

I have said that you may be right about the terminology and that Goken may have nothing to do with Haki but signifying a skillful swordsman. What I am arguing is the principle of a flying slash and the Haki palm strike and it looks the same. If you disagree, care to explain what a flying slash is? Care to explain how Zoro's flying slash injures logia Monet while Marco's and Vista's flying slash doesn't injure Akainu?

Another thing that makes no sense.

Haki simply makes a blade harder. That has nothing to do with attacks flying.

If you were being logical here, you'd at least say it's due to wind pressure, powerful swing = flying attacks.

However, the fact is BOAT states that one can convey their will into their blade.

That is more illogical since wind pressure is a technique of CP9, something Zoro never practiced. In the end, you don't have a good explanation for what flying slashes are and you assume it's wind pressure while you discard Haki release. Point is, we don't know for sure and it could be either of them.

BOAT is the ability to hear the breath of everything. What that precisely means has never been explained nor is BOAT ever brought up again. When it comes to conveying the will into the blade it could easily mean to infuse spiritual energy(Haki) into the blade and whether swordsman's will is to cut or not the sword releases Haki in sharp form or blunt form. The sword follows his will because Haki follows the orders of his will.

Is it mere coincidence that right after Zoro has learnt to convey his will into his blade. In skypiea, he says "his blade will become a cannon" in order to convey to his blade that it's a cannon that fires. This was the first time he fired a flying attack. It implies flying attacks, at least in this instance is from the ability to convey one's will into their blade.

Zoro conveys to his blade that it's a cannon, it acts like a cannon.

I think you are taking this way too literally. Nothing about his flying strike was like a cannon except the area it affected. Zoro simply used a metaphor there. He simply has sent his flying strike in rotating movement to cover a larger area, like a cannon shot would do too.
T-Bone has fired his flying slash in the same way and he never mention any cannon at all.
Whether it is coincidence or not, it conveniently fits my theory.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Hannibal Psyche Not all things happen by the will but Haki is definitely obeying to it. Luffy's stretchiness is possible without him willing it, someone pulls his arm it will stretch whether he wills it or not. Can you say the same for Haki? No.

You're trying to argue that because Haki can only be controlled by will, that it originates from the will? That's however inaccurate and flawed logic.

Your logic here is inherently flawed for certain reasons.

You're comparing 2 things that are completely different from the other by nature.

What you're not realising is that you're encroaching on 2 things that are unrelated to the other, and more so, to your conclusion. You're talking about INTERACTION which is based on the Nature of a thing that ultimately determines it's interaction limitations.

1. Firstly things that have completely different natures will have different limitations. Gas cannot be touched because of it's structure and nature.
2. Water can be touched because of its structure and nature.

Simply a fact that things that are different in nature will have different limitations of interaction.

1. Can't touch gas, but can touch liquids and solids.
2. Can't grab gas, or liquids, but can grab solids.

Point in this? Well, just like liquids, gasses and solids have different levels of interaction based on their nature... same thing applies to Haki. Haki is not physical while Luffy's body is physical, of course a body can be interacted with whereas Haki cannot be interacted with. So, your comparison or statement about Haki not being able to be grabbed like rubber is irrelevant.

The other thing you're talking about is CONTROL/MANIPULATION. You think that being able to CONTROL something with SOMETHING makes that thing its source. You think that because Haki is CONTROLLED/MANIPULATED by the WILL, that the source of HAKI is the WILL.

Huge flaw in your premise.

The body can be moved because of will, but it doesn't mean the source of body is the will. All it takes is being tired to lose ability to CONTROL, maybe brain damage, or physical injury, and that's that. No more CONTROL of the body.

Just like the body is controlled by the will doesn't mean the source of the body is the will, Haki is also not the source of the will.

For something to be the source of the will, it should mean that as long as one is conscious, they can always make use of that thing. THINKING for example is possible as long as one is conscious, Luffy can THINK, even when his Haki is depleted, he can still think, reason, make plans, etc. Only things that can be done because of consciousness can be said to be the source of the will. Haki is simply not something possible simply due to consciousness, it needs to not be depleted meaning the Haki has its own special tank/reserves, and it's not consciousness.

It's just a fallacy that just because anything can be controlled by the will, that it is the source of the will. Like I said, the body is controlled by the will, doesn't mean the will is the source of movement. There are electrical impulses going on in the body that allows the body to move so effortless by will, but just because the will can control something doesn't make it the source.

If your reasoning was right, there wouldn't be crippled people. People would just will themselves into walking despite having damaged nerves or the like, etc.

What your reasoning inherently does here is come to logical fallacies. An example of your reasoning would be as so:

• The body moves because it's alive?

Therefore, anytime a body moves, if I were using your form of reasoning without context, I'd say that means the body is alive even if it were a dead body being moved by a person or by the wind, etc.

You're fundamentally not looking at context because of the conclusion you want to come to, it's a non-sequitur in other words.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2019 ---

Hold your horses. Term BOAT is used how many times? One single time.

A term being used once is irrelevant. That doesn't determine what the term means and how it functions.

Wouldnt you think the most important thing for swordsmen would be used more than once?

Actually has been used more than once if you actually read the translations that were translated by a Japanese Translator recently.

Goken is more or less the term used to mean BOAT or to be more specific, Mighty Blade/Mighty Swordsman.

Let's not claim BOAT to be something we are not sure about.

Actually, you're misinformed here or rather, in denial. It was stated what it was.

Entirety of chapter 194 and 195 was dedicated to this.

It's not a claim, it's a factually stated thing in the Manga.

If BOAT is the ultimate move of a swordsman why no swordsman is focusing on it?

Again, this is false.


It's stated that Ryuma was a Goken Type Swordsman. Someone who had learned or mastered the ability to convey their will into their blade.

It's also not an ultimate move, it's simply a principle that can be applied that only high tier Swordsmen are capable of using.

We also do not hear Swordsmen in One Piece talking about Black Blades, doesn't mean they're not focusing on it. Another flawed piece of logic on your part. We nonetheless know from Vivre Cards that even Vista turns his blade into the Black Blade. Oda requires his readers to read a little bit between the lines.

Why was Vista, swordsman of comparable caliber to Mihawk, not able to cut Akainu? Someone like that should be a master of BOAT.

BOAT as you're still misinformed... is not an ultimate technique, it's a principle.

The idea they're not capable of using BOAT is as absurd as entertaining the idea that they can't use Observation Haki for example.

BOAT is the ability to convey one's will into their blade.

Just because they do that doesn't mean it can't be defended against.

What do you think? That Admirals are weak?

Just being able to use BOAT doesn't make one invincible.

Hyogoro can use it too, yet he's imprisoned. Clearly, it's not a cheat code to win battles. It's just a technique like every other technique that makes one stronger. Not invincible.

What I am arguing is the principle of a flying slash and the Haki palm strike and it looks the same. If you disagree, care to explain what a flying slash is?

You're wrong here. It's not a flying palm strike. It's just a palm with a thick layer of Haki whereas the slash is flying.

Not sure if you recall, but did you see Hyogoro just stand 2 meters away from Alpaca man and hit him with his palm? No, he went towards him, and simply increased the thickness of his Haki which makes it look like a projection. It's not a projection.

You don't need to cover distance if you can just stand far away from someone and hit them. People with guns don't run into people's faces just so they can shoot, they do it from distance. Hyogoro went into close distance because he wasn't shooting Haki, he was just hitting with a thick layer of Haki.

What you don't seem to understand is:

• The same principle used to move Haki to the fist is the same principle used to have a Sword shoot out slashes.

One is conveying one's will to their Haki, and the other is conveying one's will to their Sword.

That is more illogical since wind pressure is a technique of CP9,

That's wrong. This is something common in Anime or Manga. Slashes that carry so much power they can carry the kinetic force of the slash. If it weren't to do with BOAT, it'd have to be Kinetically driven wind that comes from powerful slashes. Commonly seen in Sword-based Animes/Mangas where superhuman powers are a thing.

BOAT is the ability to hear the breath of everything. What that precisely means has never been explained nor is BOAT ever brought up again. When it comes to conveying the will into the blade it could easily mean to infuse spiritual energy(Haki) into the blade and whether swordsman's will is to cut or not the sword releases Haki in sharp form or blunt form. The sword follows his will because Haki follows the orders of his will.

Wrong.

All in the same chapter. Like I said, go re-read chapter 195. It explains it all there. Absolutely nothing to do with Haki.

I think you are taking this way too literally. Nothing about his flying strike was like a cannon except the area it affected. Zoro simply used a metaphor there.

Another fallacy.

His Sword Attack shot a blast.

That is what Cannons do.

A flying slash attack, thus a cannon. Sword is metaphorically a cannon, but it literally acts like a cannon because the attack flies. It's rather simple.

 

[I Am Atomic]

As for the Akainu Vs Marco/Vista scenario, I always thought Akainu saw the attack coming and opened a gap where that attack was going to land.

Aokiji was able to do that against WB himself, so Akainu should be able to. Just like how Kata opens up holes with his mochi power by using FS.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@Hannibal Psyche

The same principle used to move Haki to the fist is the same principle used to have a Sword shoot out slashes.

One is conveying one's will to their Haki, and the other is conveying one's will to their Sword.

I understand that you believe that, but isn't it like that for literally everything? You can pretty much convey your will to a part of your body and it will obey your will... We're not interpreting it in the same way we interpret goken, correct?

What I'm saying is, for the technique Hyo demonstrated we were given a very technical explanation.

Whereas for BOAT it's not technical at all and doesn't explain how a sword is able to cut steel/not cut paper due to the breathing of things.

To put it simply, the principle of BOAT/goken — conveying your will to the sword and that alone is sufficient. Now your blade can cut anything/nothing. No energy source is required, no chakra flow is implied.

Whereas for Haki based attack Hyo showcased you have a source of energy (for lack of a better term) — haki, and the only condition that was mentioned is being able to control the flow. Basically you redirect the unused haki you have in your body to one single spot. While it's not exactly a projectile type of thing the fact that you eject an energy-like substance is somewhat similar to what swordsmen do.

So shouldn't willing haki to form a black coating aka hardening be considered goken too in that case?

I'm also not sure about wind pressure + powerful swing creating a flying slash.

T-Bone who even had a latency effect with his squarish flying slash. Mihawk whose flying slash is as effortless as it can get...

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

As for the Akainu Vs Marco/Vista scenario, I always thought Akainu saw the attack coming and opened a gap where that attack was going to land.

Aokiji was able to do that against WB himself, so Akainu should be able to. Just like how Kata opens up holes with his mochi power by using FS.

It's weird though. In the manga it seems as though they've managed to injure him at first and the next panel no blood whatsoever. But I agree it could be that technique.

 

[nik87]

You're comparing 2 things that are completely different from the other by nature.

You dont realize that Haki and will are deeply connected. Since you are hell-bent against it, read about CoC, entire Color of Haki all about the will.

The other thing you're talking about is CONTROL/MANIPULATION. You think that being able to CONTROL something with SOMETHING makes that thing its source. You think that because Haki is CONTROLLED/MANIPULATED by the WILL, that the source of HAKI is the WILL.
Huge flaw in your premise.

I have stated already several times that will is not the source of Haki. Why bother with this explanation?

Goken is more or less the term used to mean BOAT or to be more specific, Mighty Blade/Mighty Swordsman.

There is no confirmation what exactly BOAT is nor what Goken is, especially that they are the same thing.

We nonetheless know from Vivre Cards that even Vista turns his blade into the Black Blade. Oda requires his readers to read a little bit between the lines.

Only Yoru and Shusui are black blades, Vista's blade is not a black blade. Coating the blade temporarily in Haki is not the black blade which seems to be a peek of swordsman's ability.

You're wrong here. It's not a flying palm strike. It's just a palm with a thick layer of Haki whereas the slash is flying.

Quote me where exactly have I said that palm strike is flying. Flying refers only to flying slashes.

That's wrong. This is something common in Anime or Manga. Slashes that carry so much power they can carry the kinetic force of the slash. If it weren't to do with BOAT, it'd have to be Kinetically driven wind that comes from powerful slashes. Commonly seen in Sword-based Animes/Mangas where superhuman powers are a thing.

No, OP is very specific about it. Go back and check Kaku's movements when sending flying slashes. It is presented in a way that movement of his limbs implies fast movement, something Zoro's hands are never shown to do when sending flying strikes. Zoro's flying strikes are more likely to be Haki release than a technique which he never practiced.

Spoiler: cp9 technique

Another fallacy.

His Sword Attack shot a blast.

That is what Cannons do.

Cannons dont shoot a blast, they shoot a cannon ball. It is simply a metaphor, T-Bone never named the same attack a cannon. Cannons dont slash the target.

If Haki can be released through the palm why would it not be possible to release it through the sword? Explan why Zoro's flying slash injures logia while Vista's and Marco's flying slash doesnt injure Akainu, Haki was used in both cases whether they are Haki itself or just Haki clad.

Asura is physical manifestation of spiritual energy. It is not just an illusion, it becomes real, 9 swords slash the target. Will has shaped Haki(spiritual energy) into Demon God form. This part is my guess of course but it is confirmed that Zoro's will power is above Luffy's, since chapter 3.

 

[M3J]

So in essence you are saying sword slash even with CoA cannot damage Buggy.
Then you can as well give Buggy the win against any swordsman – even Mihawk since – they apparently can't damage Buggy.

That's ridiculous! This is what Haki does. Takes away your DF advantage.

That's honestly debatable since while it should, BUggy's devil fruit is also unique because it's still his real body, but it can split apart, but unless haki is permanent, Buggy could just reattach his limbs.

Wonder how it'd be for Marco if he got hit with haki multiple times. Can he still recover quickly?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

That's honestly debatable since while it should, BUggy's devil fruit is also unique because it's still his real body, but it can split apart, but unless haki is permanent, Buggy could just reattach his limbs.

Wonder how it'd be for Marco if he got hit with haki multiple times. Can he still recover quickly?

I'm not saying he won't be able too reattach his limbs. I'm saying he'd be injured even when he reattaches the body part that was cut with Haki.

Marco's case is different cos his DF grants him the ability to heal/regenerate. There must be a degree to this healing if not he wouldn't have lost to Blackbeard if he could continually heal up himself regardless of damage.
But he was well defeated.

 

[M3J]

I'm not saying he won't be able too reattach his limbs. I'm saying he'd be injured even when he reattaches the body part that was cut with Haki.

Marco's case is different cos his DF grants him the ability to heal/regenerate. There must be a degree to this healing if not he wouldn't have lost to Blackbeard if he could continually heal up himself regardless of damage.
But he was well defeated.

Ah, not sure why I interpreted damage as cut. But how badly injured? As if he got sliced, or mildly injured because of his fruit? I don't know how much damage he'd take from slashes, though he does take damage from blunt attacks, right?

That is true, but Blackbeard also has the power to sap devil fruit abilities away. Would healing still allow Marco to feel pain and be affected if his normal body gets hit or he gets haki hit?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You dont realize that Haki and will are deeply connected. Since you are hell-bent against it, read about CoC, entire Color of Haki all about the will.

Nope, that's wrong.

Just because something can be controlled by the WIll doesn't mean that thing is sourced from the will.

Body movement is controlled by the will, but doesn't mean that it's sourced from the will.

If you damage a nerve, no matter how much you will the body part to move, it won't move.

It's simply a case of what you saying lacking any sense fundamentally and conclusively.

Yes, many things and almost everything has an element of wilful control, doesn't mean it's connection to the will is as the source.

Haki is not sourced from the will, just controlled by it.

I have stated already several times that will is not the source of Haki. Why bother with this explanation?

Okay, then your point is irrelevant.

Haki is controlled by will? So?

So is my arm, so is my leg, so is my neck? so?

It means nothing other than the will controls it.

There is no confirmation what exactly BOAT is nor what Goken is, especially that they are the same thing.

There is, you're simply in denial of it.

Only Yoru and Shusui are black blades, Vista's blade is not a black blade. Coating the blade temporarily in Haki is not the black blade which seems to be a peek of swordsman's ability.

Please, do some research before blinding stating false things.

Quote me where exactly have I said that palm strike is flying. Flying refers only to flying slashes.

Easy.

You said it looks the same.

Your point is you're trying to claim that Haki makes attacks fly or so.

No, OP is very specific about it. Go back and check Kaku's movements when sending flying slashes. It is presented in a way that movement of his limbs implies fast movement, something Zoro's hands are never shown to do when sending flying strikes. Zoro's flying strikes are more likely to be Haki release than a technique which he never practiced.

Wrong again, OP (One Piece)? Is not specific about it being a CP9 technique. Simply shows them using it.

No where is it stated flying attacks are Haki based too.

The most ridiculous thing about your claim is that Zoro was using Advanced Armament before he was using Basic? Makes no sense bud.

Cannons dont shoot a blast, they shoot a cannon ball. It is simply a metaphor, T-Bone never named the same attack a cannon. Cannons dont slash the target.

Cannons shot, whether it's a ball or not, the point is it shoots something.

Maybe you're not aware of WIper's cannon that doesn't shoot balls either, but simply a blast.

Zoro's Swords are shooting an attack. Metaphor that also has a literal aspect to it.

It's not difficult at all.

If Haki can be released through the palm why would it not be possible to release it through the sword?

Again, you're wrong.

Haki is not being shot through the palm, otherwise all Hyogoro had to do was aim to hit Alpacaman. He had to get close to him because all he's doing is Making Haki thicker.

Huge difference bud. The Sword attacks are shooting an attack, Hyogo is simply thickening/concentrating Haki around his palm.

Some of your questions make no sense whatsoever.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

T-Bone who even had a latency effect with his squarish flying slash. Mihawk whose flying slash is as effortless as it can get...

Are we really going to compare T-Bone to Mihawk? This is the World's Strongest Swordsman. Do we think their attacsk are going to be the same calibre?

Mihawk's physical strength alone would be miles apart from anything T-Bone could do.

Even the most simple technique that Mihawk performs would be leagues ahead of T-Bone's attacks.

I don't think latency is really relevant here.

You know, just because 2 people perform the same technique doesn't mean the attack would be the same calibre?

Koby can perform Soru, but does that mean his Soru would be as fast as Mihawk, Shanks' or Katakuri's Soru? Highly doubt it.

I understand that you believe that, but isn't it like that for literally everything? You can pretty much convey your will to a part of your body and it will obey your will... We're not interpreting it in the same way we interpret goken, correct?

Do you know what the conditions were that Zoro stated was the key to using the Goken principle Again?

Concentration.

This is telling us Goken requires a high level of concentration to pull off. It's not something as easy as simply willing the Sword to cut, one has to be in a deep state of concentration.

Read chapter 195. Isn't Zoro's senses eerily akin to someone who is deeply aware of his surroundings? Possible from intense concentration?

What I'm saying is, for the technique Hyo demonstrated we were given a very technical explanation.

Whereas for BOAT it's not technical at all and doesn't explain how a sword is able to cut steel/not cut paper due to the breathing of things.

What was the technical explanation behind what Hyo demonstrated?

All he said was make all your Haki flow into your fist? That isn't a technical explanation, it's a rather straight forward one. He barely explained anything in fact.

There's nothing to tell the Sword to do other than to cut or not cut whereas for Haki, it's about making Haki move to where one wants it to move to.

What needs to be explained about willing the Sword to not cut paper? It's in the statement of itself. Don't cut paper, that's all that has to be conveyed to the Sword.

To put it simply, the principle of BOAT/goken — conveying your will to the sword and that alone is sufficient. Now your blade can cut anything/nothing. No energy source is required, no chakra flow is implied.

These are trivial.

So, what if there's no apparent source of energy? You're quibbling about petty details here.

Would be like asking, how can Haki which looks like fluid be hard? Tell me that, how? Where does the Manga explain why Haki is hard for us to accept that it is hard?

You're saying unless Oda tells us why conveying a will into a blade can cut steel or not cut, it can't be accepted or believed? Then how about Haki, where did Oda explain:

1. How Haki can be hard?
2. How Haki can make Logia that can be literally air, or fire, or snow, lava be touched as if they were solid to begin with?

We aren't given those explanations, yet we just beleive that's what it does because that's what he said it does with no further explanation.

So shouldn't willing haki to form a black coating aka hardening be considered goken too in that case?

You're talking about 2 different powers that function differently.

Haki doesn't become Hardened because of Goken, it's simply from advancing in Armament.

Can't just use FS because you want to use it, you need to have the talent to advance to that level.

 

[nik87]

Well from what I see you are running out of explanations and not answering my questions at all or answering with something that has nothing to do with the question but rather discussing semantics... All because you dont want to consider my theory as a possible way how things are happening. Discarding other peoples idea without giving them a chance and being open to the possibility that they might be true wont get us far.

Nope, that's wrong.
Just because something can be controlled by the WIll doesn't mean that thing is sourced from the will.
Body movement is controlled by the will, but doesn't mean that it's sourced from the will.
If you damage a nerve, no matter how much you will the body part to move, it won't move.
It's simply a case of what you saying lacking any sense fundamentally and conclusively.
Yes, many things and almost everything has an element of wilful control, doesn't mean it's connection to the will is as the source.
Haki is not sourced from the will, just controlled by it.

As I said several times, I didnt say it is the source of Haki.
You refuse the close connection of Haki and the will while entire Color of Conquerors is all about the will. You are digging your own grave with such approach.

Please, do some research before blinding stating false things.

I did my reasearch, you are wrong here. Only Shusui and Yoru are permanently black blades. It's not only Zoro and Vista who can coat them into black blades temporary, so can many others and we have seen it in Dressrosa from Fujitora and Kinemon. Only two blades that we have seen so far have become permanent black blades. It is a fact.

You said it looks the same.
Your point is you're trying to claim that Haki makes attacks fly or so.

The principle looks the same, I have never said that palm strikes are flying, lol. The principle is the release of Haki through the palm and through the sword. If it can be released through the palm, it can be released through the sword as well.

Wrong again, OP (One Piece)? Is not specific about it being a CP9 technique. Simply shows them using it.
No where is it stated flying attacks are Haki based too.
The most ridiculous thing about your claim is that Zoro was using Advanced Armament before he was using Basic? Makes no sense bud.

It is specific about CP9 techniques, every single one is specifically explained. I have shown you proof how fast their movements are to create slahses from condensed air, that is not what Zoro is doing. His arms are not moving anywhere close to that fast when sending flying slashes.
It is not stated but I am theorizing about it and assuming they could possibly be Haki based.
It is not ridiculous for swordsman, dont look at it from Luffy's perspective.

Cannons shot, whether it's a ball or not, the point is it shoots something.
Maybe you're not aware of WIper's cannon that doesn't shoot balls either, but simply a blast.
Zoro's Swords are shooting an attack. Metaphor that also has a literal aspect to it.
It's not difficult at all.

You dont realize that Zoro was just being cocky and because he was facing guns he did one up and called his sword metaphorically a cannon.
What Wiper's Bazooka shoots is gas. Gas always exists, cannonball always exists. What Zoro shoots needs to be shaped into existence by his will.
It is fundamentally different, no cannon slices the target, that is not the purpose of a cannon.

Haki is not being shot through the palm, otherwise all Hyogoro had to do was aim to hit Alpacaman. He had to get close to him because all he's doing is Making Haki thicker.
Huge difference bud. The Sword attacks are shooting an attack, Hyogo is simply thickening/concentrating Haki around his palm.
Some of your questions make no sense whatsoever.

I never said shot, I said released. It is released otherwise the hand would touch the opponent while the case with advanced Armament is specifically blasting them without touching.

They make no sense because you cant answer them if you want to stick to your theory and you cant give an answer without undermining your own approach that you took.
Answer why Zoro's Haki flying slash injures a logia while Vista's and Marco's Haki flying slash doesnt injure a logia.
If the release of Haki through the hand is the force field blast, what is the release of Haki through the sword?
What do you think is Sengoku's shockwave in his golden buddha form?
Do you think a non-swordsman can hear the breathing of all things and what would be the use of it?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Please, do some research before blinding stating false things.

Pretty sure @nik87 meant constantly black blades. Like Shusui/Yoru.

Wrong again, OP (One Piece)? Is not specific about it being a CP9 technique. Simply shows them using it.

It is possible to be fast enough to cause slicing winds...

”

— Kalifa, CP9[1]

From Wikia, when she explains rankyaku to Nami.

Don't think that flying slash is the same as Rankyaku.

Anyone can learn CP9 techniques, I'd guess. Just a matter of gaining enough muscle strength + training.

Are we really going to compare T-Bone to Mihawk? This is the World's Strongest Swordsman. Do we think their attacsk are going to be the same calibre?

Mihawk's physical strength alone would be miles apart from anything T-Bone could do.

Even the most simple technique that Mihawk performs would be leagues ahead of T-Bone's attacks.

I don't think latency is really relevant here.

You know, just because 2 people perform the same technique doesn't mean the attack would be the same calibre?

That's not even the point I'm making. The difference in calibre isn't relevant here. I'm pointing at the fact that whereas Rankyaku is about being fast enough to cause slicing winds, flying slashes are often performed in such a way that you can't really call them "fast swings".

Concentration.

This is telling us Goken requires a high level of concentration to pull off. It's not something as easy as simply willing the Sword to cut, one has to be in a deep state of concentration.

Read chapter 195. Isn't Zoro's senses eerily akin to someone who is deeply aware of his surroundings? Possible from intense concentration?

Ok, I see.

What was the technical explanation behind what Hyo demonstrated?

All he said was make all your Haki flow into your fist? That isn't a technical explanation, it's a rather straight forward one. He barely explained anything in fact.

Telling one to control the flow of something is already technical enough imo.

It's akin to hearing from a driving instructor: shift to the 3rd gear, turn left etc. It is an instruction that one can follow.

There's nothing to tell the Sword to do other than to cut or not cut whereas for Haki, it's about making Haki move to where one wants it to move to.

Then again, why is it that different from telling haki to create black coating? In either case it'd be a matter of skillfulness.

So, what if there's no apparent source of energy? You're quibbling about petty details here.

Would be like asking, how can Haki which looks like fluid be hard? Tell me that, how? Where does the Manga explain why Haki is hard for us to accept that it is hard?

Well, as far as I can tell haki isn't hard in and of itself, it is in essence energy that can make things harder. At least that's how I see it.

You're saying unless Oda tells us why conveying a will into a blade can cut steel or not cut, it can't be accepted or believed?

I'm not saying that. I can buy that if that's what Oda has decided on.

You're talking about 2 different powers that function differently.

Haki doesn't become Hardened because of Goken, it's simply from advancing in Armament.

Can't just use FS because you want to use it, you need to have the talent to advance to that level.

I still don't see why willing haki to flow where you want it to flow is the same as willing a blade to cut whatever you wanna cut.

And why is it fundamentally different from making haki form hardening on whatever body part you want...

Maybe I'm just not getting it.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Flying slashes are not Haki going by evidences of what we we've seen.
I think it depends on the Swordsman whether or not he wants to coat it in Haki.

Flying slashes. I was part of the group of probably 99% of us that assumed they were air pressure waves. Once I considered the idea that hey were haki it just made waaaay more sense to me. I mean let’s think about this physically. The whole point of a blade being sharp is so you decrease the surface area so most of the energy goes to a single point. The smaller the point, or edge of the blade, the more energy is put into the cut. The rest of the blade is designed to reduce friction to assist in the separation of the cut. Basically meaning that with a sharp weapon on the level that these swords are supposed to be, very very VERY little air is going to be pushed at all. And the sharper the sword, the less that will be. (This whole design of a blade thing is my own take on it and may very well be wrong, but my physicist of the air pressure thing is spot on) now, with Ryankyaku you are dealing with something wider and much more surface area to push the air so in theory you could create a pressure wave.
If you put haki into the equation, you get an energy “blast” (I use blast because I can’t think of a better word at the moment) sent from the edge of the blade. It just makes much more sense to me in general.

Zoro showed Monet that he could kill her if he wished (regarding the first slash on her cheek) cos he could use Haki. But then he slashed her body without using Haki.

Mihawk does the same when he sent a slash that hit Buggy. That slash wasn't imbued with Haki or Buggy would be dead/seriously injured.

I think there’s a chance that Buggy’s fruit ability may work regardless of haki. I just feel like since his spirit is able to separate like that I could see him still not being cut by a haki slice. I’m thinking maybe 10% chance.

Flying slashes can be imbued or not imbued with CoA not that whenever Flying slashes are produced, they are produced with Haki.
Same applies to all of Zoro's slashes Pre TS. He had not learned Haki, he couldn't use CoA. Definitely all his slashes back then were not Haki imbued.
This is consistent throughout the story but some feel the need to explain Zoro's attack on Enel bcos they feel Zoro could use CoA since Alabasta.
Nope, he couldn't. No SH could. End of discussion.

Having written all of this I want to add that since this is a story and not real like, real life physics don’t necessarily apply, and since I haven’t checked out all of the times flying slashes have been used I may be completely wrong on this. To be taken with a grain of salt! (Whatever the hell that means lol!)

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

One thing I want to toss out there is that I think BOAT is just another name for Haki. Zoro didn’t know what haki was when he was in Alabasta. He just knew what he was feeling was similar to something his sensei has described to him. Zoro awakened it when he was fighting Mr.1 and had to Lear’s how to control it later. In one of the panels he is training to try to be able to use it whenever he wants. The philosophy of what we can “breath of all things” is this:
CoO : the sensing of spiritual eneegy
and
CoA: the manipulation of spiritual energy

The only other explanation given basically turn BOAT into either a form of telekinesis, or a form of reality manipulation through force of will.

Here’s the thing. Willpower does not have a tangible physical effect on anything. Through force of will you can have your body do or NOT do something, but beyond that? Nope.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well from what I see you are running out of explanations and not answering my questions at all or answering with something that has nothing to do with the question but rather discussing semantics... All because you dont want to consider my theory as a possible way how things are happening. Discarding other peoples idea without giving them a chance and being open to the possibility that they might be true wont get us far.

No, it's a case of your theory simply being a bad one because it ignores anything that contradicts it.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

Pretty sure @nik87 meant constantly black blades. Like Shusui/Yoru.

That's why he needs to do research. A Black Blade is not a literally Black Blade. Anyone can turn their Blade into a Black Blade simply by imbuing Haki into it. Once a Blade is strengthened with Haki, it's a Black Blade.

Even Zoro is said to be able to turn his Blade Black after the time-skip simply because he can use Haki.

Vivre Card says this. He'd know if he read them. Specifically states that his Blades other than Shusui can be Black Blades just by imbuing Armament to make them stronger and more durable which is the property of a Black Blade.

From Wikia, when she explains rankyaku to Nami.

Don't think that flying slash is the same as Rankyaku.

Anyone can learn CP9 techniques, I'd guess. Just a matter of gaining enough muscle strength + training.

A flying slash could simply be physics taken the the nth degree or simply ability to convey wills.

Telling one to control the flow of something is already technical enough imo.

It's akin to hearing from a driving instructor: shift to the 3rd gear, turn left etc. It is an instruction that one can follow.

That's not a technical explanation of anything simply telling something to do something.

Technical instructions are usually complex.

Then again, why is it that different from telling haki to create black coating? In either case it'd be a matter of skillfulness.

Because Haki doesn't get stronger just because you wish it to be so, it only grows stronger from training it. Hardened Armament is not willed, it's a talent.

You're also mistaken.

Willing something is not the same thing as changing something.

Willing the Sword to be a Cannon is not the same thing as the Sword turning into a Canon. It just acts like it.

Did Zoro's Swords turn into a Canon? No, simply acted like one.

This ability to will things doesn't change the structure anything.

Haki cannot change into Black Haki just because you will it to do so. Doesn't work that way, it's not remotely implied.

All Conveying fundamentally does is project one's intentions.

Well, as far as I can tell haki isn't hard in and of itself, it is in essence energy that can make things harder. At least that's how I see it.

It is hard. That's simply a fact.

There's no instance where Haki is used where it's not hard.

That's what Haki does, makes things harder.

Mochi is hard because of Haki.

Anything imbued with Haki becomes harder.

Why do you think that this invisible Haki barrier hurts? because it's not hard? It's hard.

Why do you think Luffy can only perform Gear 4th with Haki? Why do you think Joker said Gear 4th was Luffy increasing his tensile properties with Haki? Gear 4th is only possible because Haki is fundamentally hard.

I still don't see why willing haki to flow where you want it to flow is the same as willing a blade to cut whatever you wanna cut.

Well, it's very simple.

He wants his Haki to go to his fist, it does that.

No different to not wanting his Blade to cut or not cut.

It's really that simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019 ---

I never said shot, I said released.

Wrong, he didn't release it. He simply said he built it up at the end of his hand.

Shot and release are also the same thing in concept.

You refuse the close connection of Haki and the will while entire Color of Conquerors is all about the will.

Wrong. I said Haki is controlled by the will.

Doesn't mean anything fundamentally other than it's controlled.

Can control if I move my arm. Doesn't mean there's some profound close connection between will and arms.

Your point here is a pointless one.

I did my reasearch, you are wrong here. Only Shusui and Yoru are permanently black blades. It's not only Zoro and Vista who can coat them into black blades temporary, so can many others and we have seen it in Dressrosa from Fujitora and Kinemon. Only two blades that we have seen so far have become permanent black blades. It is a fact.

Wrong, you haven't done your research will.

Any Blade can become LIKE a Black Blade simply by imbuing it with Haki.

Doesn't have to be Black like Shusui or Yoru.

Difference is one is a Black Blade permanently while the other is one only whilst augmented by Haki.

Haki is invisible, mind you. We've been told this 100s of times. You'd know this if you read what the Manga iterated 100s of times.

It is specific about CP9 techniques, every single one is specifically explained. I have shown you proof how fast their movements are to create slahses from condensed air, that is not what Zoro is doing. His arms are not moving anywhere close to that fast when sending flying slashes.

Sorry, but you're once again, incredibly wrong.

You can't tell how fast a character is moving in a still image. It's simply a drawing.

Could draw Coby perform Soru and Lucci perform Soru. Can't tell whose were faster unless we're told this character's is faster.

So, how you can tell how fast Zoro's slash is, is fallacious, it's impossible.

You dont realize that Zoro was just being cocky and because he was facing guns he did one up and called his sword metaphorically a cannon.
What Wiper's Bazooka shoots is gas. Gas always exists, cannonball always exists. What Zoro shoots needs to be shaped into existence by his will.
It is fundamentally different, no cannon slices the target, that is not the purpose of a cannon.

Nope, wrong again.

Being cocky doesn't change the fact that he was willing his Sword to behave like a Cannon and it did.

Willing something doesn't change the shape of something, another fallacy on your part.

Answer why Zoro's Haki flying slash injures a logia while Vista's and Marco's Haki flying slash doesnt injure a logia.

Are Monet and Akainu of the same calibre?

You think that something that would hurt Monet would hurt Akainu?

You think they're both are strong as the other?

You clearly don't know the fundamental power of Haki. Haki is not the power to hurt Logia.
It's the power to touch.

If Haki were the power to hurt, simply touching a Logia would mean they were in pain.

Pain doesn't come from contact, but the power of the touch (hit).

If the hit wasn't that powerful, it's unlikely to have much power to hurt the likes of Akainu who is an Admiral.

If the release of Haki through the hand is the force field blast, what is the release of Haki through the sword?

No where is it stated to be a blast. Only told it's a build up of Haki at the end of one's palms or fist.

What do you think is Sengoku's shockwave in his golden buddha form?

Sengoku didn't shoot the blast.

Did you see the size of his palm?

Did you see how close his palms were to Blackbeard?

With a body that size, the build up of Haki would surely be plentiful.

Could also be an ability that's unique to his Bhudda DF.

Do you think a non-swordsman can hear the breathing of all things and what would be the use of it?

Why wouldn't it. Simply requires concentrating.

Like I asid, the Manga has literally explained it all, you simply don't want to accept it because you want to attribute Goken to Haki which is simply erroneous given what has been explained by the Manga. Can choose to believe it, your problem at the end of the day.

 

[nik87]

No, it's a case of your theory simply being a bad one because it ignores anything that contradicts it.

Actually, it is still bulletproof but if you think it's bad, suit yourself. I know it, you know it, it will be confirmed with time.

Wrong. I said Haki is controlled by the will.
Doesn't mean anything fundamentally other than it's controlled.
Can control if I move my arm. Doesn't mean there's some profound close connection between will and arms.
Your point here is a pointless one.

What am I wrong about? Will is a fundamental component of Haki. Good luck explaining CoC with your approach, it is all about the will - which you deny.
You know you are wrong about it and now you try to wiggle out without admitting it... My point is not pointless at all, it is a fact.

Nope, wrong again.
Being cocky doesn't change the fact that he was willing his Sword to behave like a Cannon and it did.
Willing something doesn't change the shape of something, another fallacy on your part.

You know you are wrong again but wont admit it. The purpose of a cannon is not to slice people up. His sword didnt behave like a cannon just because he said it's cannon, nothing about his attack is cannon-like. Flying slash sent in circular trajectory to cover a larger area, that's all there is. If you know the principles of a spin shot it should be clear.

Wrong, he didn't release it. He simply said he built it up at the end of his hand.

Shot and release are also the same thing in concept.

If you actually look at Rayleigh's example against the elephant and considering the fact how its drawn from users hand outwards yes it is a release. You need to release it outside of the fist to create field in between the hand and the target.

Wrong, you haven't done your research will.
Any Blade can become LIKE a Black Blade simply by imbuing it with Haki.
Doesn't have to be Black like Shusui or Yoru.
Difference is one is a Black Blade permanently while the other is one only whilst augmented by Haki.
Haki is invisible, mind you. We've been told this 100s of times. You'd know this if you read what the Manga iterated 100s of times.

You know you are wrong about this too since you know that only 2 swords in the world are permanently black. Gyukimaru just spoke about Shusui becoming a black blade during his time with Ryuma.
Yoru and Shusui are visibly black, that's what you dont get. Haki becomes visible at high mastery. Asura is not invisible, it is very visible and very real. Manifestation of invisible spiritual energy into visible, tangible form.

Sorry, but you're once again, incredibly wrong.
You can't tell how fast a character is moving in a still image. It's simply a drawing.
Could draw Coby perform Soru and Lucci perform Soru. Can't tell whose were faster unless we're told this character's is faster.
So, how you can tell how fast Zoro's slash is, is fallacious, it's impossible.

I am 100% right about this. Flying slashes which swordmen perform are not the same thing that CP9 does - Rankyaku. Do you know why? Because Rankyaku is a technique only doable with kicks. And I exactly showed you the example of fast movment when performing Rankyaku which is never done to Zoro when performing flying slashes. You can wiggle around it but you know I am right.

Are Monet and Akainu of the same calibre?
You think that something that would hurt Monet would hurt Akainu?
You think they're both are strong as the other?

You clearly don't know the fundamental power of Haki. Haki is not the power to hurt Logia.
It's the power to touch.
If Haki were the power to hurt, simply touching a Logia would mean they were in pain.
Pain doesn't come from contact, but the power of the touch (hit).
If the hit wasn't that powerful, it's unlikely to have much power to hurt the likes of Akainu who is an Admiral.

If the calibre is the issue then why were they able to cut him at all in the first place? The flying slashes were powerful enough to cut him. Why wasnt he hurt?

No where is it stated to be a blast. Only told it's a build up of Haki at the end of one's palms or fist.

If you actually look how how that attack is drawn it's clear as day that it is a blast, release or what you called it - shot.

Sengoku didn't shoot the blast.
Did you see the size of his palm?
Did you see how close his palms were to Blackbeard?
With a body that size, the build up of Haki would surely be plentiful.
Could also be an ability that's unique to his Bhudda DF.

Sengoku is away far enough for this to be Haki release/blast.

It could be unique ability to buddha or it is simple Haki release like all others did who performed this type of attack.

Why wouldn't it. Simply requires concentrating.
Like I asid, the Manga has literally explained it all, you simply don't want to accept it because you want to attribute Goken to Haki which is simply erroneous given what has been explained by the Manga. Can choose to believe it, your problem at the end of the day.

You are right, why wouldnt BOAT be possible to non-swordsmen but you failed to give an example how it would be of use to them.

I have said that I could be wrong about terminology, no need to bring Goken up anymore. However, it still has to prove me wrong about the principle not being Goken, when it does/if it does, I have no problem with it and changes nothing what I argue here.

So I have proven you that will is a component of the Haki, that the purpose of a cannon is not to slice people up, that palm strikes are actually release of Haki, that only 2 swords in the world are permanently black blades, that CP9 technique is kicks only thing. What is your point in arguing these?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

That's not a technical explanation of anything simply telling something to do something.

Technical instructions are usually complex.

Well, if it is as the manga says: allowing haki to flow into something as in projecting will/intentions on haki without literally and manually directing the flow of haki in your body then yes, I can see the parallel.

I just assumed it's something more technical where you literally control the flow. Probably just my headcanon.

That's what Haki does, makes things harder.

Anything imbued with Haki becomes harder.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The haki-ish energy itself isn't hard nor solid. It flows in one's body therefore mustn't be solid. It only makes things solid, maybe only in highly concentrated form it becomes somewhat 'hard'. But under normal circumstances it's just energy.

Anyhow that's probably besides the point.

One other aspect of haki I often find myself pondering on is whether it's visible or not.

I guess if Zoro's swords become black because of haki that must mean it's visible? But never ever displayed in the manga before the timeskip... That's kinda odd.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I guess if Zoro's swords become black because of haki that must mean it's visible? But never ever displayed in the manga before the timeskip... That's kinda odd.

You know when they say LIKE, it's a simile?

I can say you're LIKE a Lion, doesn't mean literally calling you a Lion.

Just referring to a quality you have that's like a Lion. Could be that I'm referencing how fierce you are or how bold you are or how long your hair is, etc.

When they say Haki makes a Sword LIKE a Black Blade, it's simply referring to Swords having the quality of a Black Blade.

What are the qualities of Black Blades?

HARDNESS is the main attribute of the Black Blade.

What does Haki do? Make things HARD. Makes the Swords incredibly durable. Thus, why it's said simply imbuing a Blade makes it LIKE a Black Blade. Not that it has transformed into the Yoru or Shusui.

It has nothing to do with colour, it's merely a comparison.

 

[Fox666]

Sengoku is away far enough for this to be Haki release/blast.

It could be unique ability to buddha or it is simple Haki release like all others did who performed this type of attack.

Hmmm visually it looks different from when Sentoumaru, Marigold or Rayleigh used that Haki technique.

May just be a physical attack. If CP9 can throw "air shurikens", anything is possible...

 

[Hrathgrath]

No, it's a case of your theory simply being a bad one because it ignores anything that contradicts it.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

I know your not a stupid guy. Just a guy with a massive ego. You do understand interpretation, correct? Just because someone else’s theory doesn’t fit with the way you interpret the information doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You’ve GOT to open your mind to the possibility that you may be wrong. As far as theories go, there is no good theory or bad theory, just likely and unlikely.

That's why he needs to do research. A Black Blade is not a literally Black Blade. Anyone can turn their Blade into a Black Blade simply by imbuing Haki into it. Once a Blade is strengthened with Haki, it's a Black Blade.

Even Zoro is said to be able to turn his Blade Black after the time-skip simply because he can use Haki.

Vivre Card says this. He'd know if he read them. Specifically states that his Blades other than Shusui can be Black Blades just by imbuing Armament to make them stronger and more durable which is the property of a Black Blade.

I’m fairly sure @nik87 isnt debating this point.

A flying slash could simply be physics taken the the nth degree or simply ability to convey wills.



That's not a technical explanation of anything simply telling something to do something.

Technical instructions are usually complex.



Because Haki doesn't get stronger just because you wish it to be so, it only grows stronger from training it. Hardened Armament is not willed, it's a talent.

You're also mistaken.

Willing something is not the same thing as changing something.

Willing the Sword to be a Cannon is not the same thing as the Sword turning into a Canon. It just acts like it.

Did Zoro's Swords turn into a Canon? No, simply acted like one.

This ability to will things doesn't change the structure anything.

Haki cannot change into Black Haki just because you will it to do so. Doesn't work that way, it's not remotely implied.

All Conveying fundamentally does is project one's intentions.



It is hard. That's simply a fact.

There's no instance where Haki is used where it's not hard.

That's what Haki does, makes things harder.

Mochi is hard because of Haki.

Anything imbued with Haki becomes harder.

Why do you think that this invisible Haki barrier hurts? because it's not hard? It's hard.

Why do you think Luffy can only perform Gear 4th with Haki? Why do you think Joker said Gear 4th was Luffy increasing his tensile properties with Haki? Gear 4th is only possible because Haki is fundamentally hard.



Well, it's very simple.

He wants his Haki to go to his fist, it does that.

No different to not wanting his Blade to cut or not cut.

It's really that simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019 ---

Something that you’ve said, and as I recall defended, two separate ways.
Haki is an invisible armor.
and
Haki makes things harder.
In the first one you seem to suggest that the technique Luffy is currently trying to learn is a thickening of the invisible armor around his hand to such a degree that it looks as if he is striking someone from a distance. You’ve stated in this post “Haki is hard.” I’m not even going to go off on a tangent on how this is an opinion based on your interpretations of the evidence.
In the second you seem to be suggesting that haki makes his skin, or whatever it’s used on, harder. Effectively turning their skin into the armor.
My question is, which is it?

Wrong, he didn't release it. He simply said he built it up at the end of his hand.

Shot and release are also the same thing in concept.



Wrong. I said Haki is controlled by the will.

Doesn't mean anything fundamentally other than it's controlled.

Can control if I move my arm. Doesn't mean there's some profound close connection between will and arms.

Your point here is a pointless one.



Wrong, you haven't done your research will.

Any Blade can become LIKE a Black Blade simply by imbuing it with Haki.

Doesn't have to be Black like Shusui or Yoru.

Difference is one is a Black Blade permanently while the other is one only whilst augmented by Haki.

Haki is invisible, mind you. We've been told this 100s of times. You'd know this if you read what the Manga iterated 100s of times.

It.s funny because you actually quoted @nik87 ’s post, then basically repeated it. He actually says any blade can be made black with haki, but the only 2 permanently black blades (this far anyhow) are Shusui and Yoru. One more question. If haki is invisible, how do the blades become black? And before you suggest only haki users can see the color, when Yoru was first shown it was black, well before any of the crew learned how to sense haki.

Sorry, but you're once again, incredibly wrong.

You can't tell how fast a character is moving in a still image. It's simply a drawing.

Could draw Coby perform Soru and Lucci perform Soru. Can't tell whose were faster unless we're told this character's is faster.

So, how you can tell how fast Zoro's slash is, is fallacious, it's impossible.



Nope, wrong again.

You just love telling people they are wrong lol! Short of correcting people on dialogue or what is it isn’t in a photo, it’s all up to interpretation. You may disagree strongly with how they interpreted something, but until Oda comes out and says something, clearly, which is exceedingly rare, it’s up to interpretation. I’m mean, hell, there are denominations of christianity and judaism every other religion out the wazoo all based on the same damn book! (The Bible for Christians, Torah for Jewish, Koran for Muslim and so on...) All because people interpret it differently!

Being cocky doesn't change the fact that he was willing his Sword to behave like a Cannon and it did.

Willing something doesn't change the shape of something, another fallacy on your part.



Are Monet and Akainu of the same calibre?

You think that something that would hurt Monet would hurt Akainu?

You think they're both are strong as the other?

You clearly don't know the fundamental power of Haki. Haki is not the power to hurt Logia.
It's the power to touch.

If Haki were the power to hurt, simply touching a Logia would mean they were in pain.

Pain doesn't come from contact, but the power of the touch (hit).

If the hit wasn't that powerful, it's unlikely to have much power to hurt the likes of Akainu who is an Admiral.



No where is it stated to be a blast. Only told it's a build up of Haki at the end of one's palms or fist.



Sengoku didn't shoot the blast.

Did you see the size of his palm?

Did you see how close his palms were to Blackbeard?

With a body that size, the build up of Haki would surely be plentiful.

Could also be an ability that's unique to his Bhudda DF.



Why wouldn't it. Simply requires concentrating.

Like I asid, the Manga has literally explained it all, you simply don't want to accept it because you want to attribute Goken to Haki which is simply erroneous given what has been explained by the Manga. Can choose to believe it, your problem at the end of the day.

You have the right to believe as you want. This forum is for the discussion of these things. Not to shut people out when they have an idea just because you don’t agree with their theories or interpretations of the story or it’s information.

 

[nik87]

Hmmm visually it looks different from when Sentoumaru, Marigold or Rayleigh used that Haki technique.
May just be a physical attack. If CP9 can throw "air shurikens", anything is possible...

Yes, that's a good point, it does look visually different from what Rayleigh, Sentomaru, Boa sisters, Hyogoro did but still looks like the same principle.
Sengoku, being a Fleet Admiral, never really looked impressive but if that shockwave is indeed a Haki blast, that puts him on a whole another level of Haki mastery which justifies his position.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

If you actually look how how that attack is drawn it's clear as day that it is a blast, release or what you called it - shot.

Just randomly picked one of your statements to quote.

The logic behind it?

So because he said blasted him away in this panel, it means he shot a blast?

That's as ODD as saying that because it was stated that Cracker was flying through the air, that he was hit by a flying attack.

Luffy didn't perform a flying attack to make Cracker fly just like it's not implied or stated or shown that Hyogoro performed a blast attack to blast him away.

Just because he was blasted away doesn't mean the attack that hit him was a blast.

Again, you're not making clear distinctions. You've mistaken the effect of an attack as being the type of attack.

• A punch is not a blast, but a punch can blast someone away. Different type of attack, with a different effect.

Example of a shot FROM DISTANCE. She's not shooting whilst standing in her enemy's face like Hyogor, she's standing far away at distance. Thus, her attack is a shot or a tiny blast.

It's also just common logic:

• Blasts or Shots are from distance. That's why people don't run into people's faces in order to shoot them. That's why people with guns don't stand right in front of whom they want to shoot, they simply point and shoot. Hyogoro is not pointing and shooting, he's getting in proximity and hitting him.

Hyogoro ran to Alpacaman; the very fact he ran should already have you thinking,... how is this a blast? You don't run to shoot people, you stand on the spot and shoot people from range or long distance. That is what a blast attack does, a blast is shot from distance.

What Hyogoro did was not a blast, but he did blast him him. Hyogoro said he built up Haki in his palm and thrust his arm at the enemy. That doesn't look like a blast nor is the way blasts are performed.

He ran to meet Alpacaman. That's what people do to hit people with attacks that do not fly or can't be shot.

And other translations (VIZ) states he got knocked.

Honestly, I randomly just decided to look at anyone of your responses, and the logic behind speaks for itself because it's not applicable.

I won't entertain this anymore, no point, lol.

Just wait for the Manga and tell yourself whatever you want as opposed to what the Manga has stated and shown.