Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Are we seriously still debating if the strike was from a distance??? Luffy said straight up. “Without touching him” I don’t know how that could be taken in any other way...

 

[nik87]

@Hannibal Psyche What is your point of using Luffy vs Cracker as a comparison to Haki blast? We know that Luffy has touched Cracker and that he shot him away. Hyogoro neither touched Alapacaman nor did he shot him away, he shot Haki out of his body.
You point why run to close range... Because his mastery of that attack is not good enough to shoot it from a large distance without the sword? Why did Marco and Vista go into close range with Akainu when they very well could have shotten those slashes from far away?

You put too much value into official translations, they make mistakes like all others. To blast something away without touching you have to release Haki away from the body.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You put too much value into official translations, they make mistakes like all others. To blast something away without touching you have to release Haki away from the body.

Correction.

Contact with Haki that extends outside the boundary of the fist or palm.

Just because it's not seen doesn't mean the invisible Haki is not making contact.

You lack evidence it's a blast.

When did Hyogoro say shoot the Haki through your fist or release it? He said Build up.

Viz making mistakes as much as Mangastream and Jaimini? Where? and How many are you aware of?

 

[hokageji]

@nik87
Viz translations are as close to accurate without interpretation room.... Even if they aren't, they are the only official source so they should be taken as canon 99/100 times.

Even the time sandman mentioned Viz made a mistake, havent there been times where sandman has made them too?

 

[nik87]

Contact with Haki that extends outside the boundary of the fist or palm.
Just because it's not seen doesn't mean the invisible Haki is not making contact.
You lack evidence it's a blast.

It is released, not just extended.
There is no contact with the fist, the contact surface is the spiritual energy forced into solidness.

There is no touching, it is blasting with Haki by releasing it outside of the palm.
I showed you Luffy saying Hyo blasted Alpacaman.

You dont get this huge contact surface by focusing the Haki at the end of the palm, this is done be releasing it outside of the body, dispersing it from the palm.

Imagine a weak version of Kamehameha, it is the same principle. If barehanded fighters disperse it wide area it is possible that swordsmen release it too but not in wide area when they wish to cut, but in thin, sharp area. Wide area release for swordsmen happens when they dont wish to cut.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It is released, not just extended.
There is no contact with the fist, the contact surface is the spiritual energy forced into solidness.

Nope. Didn't say it made contact with the fist. I said it made contact with the periphery of his fist where the Haki surroundings.

It's surrounding his palm and it's concentrated at the end of the palm. Nothing indicating it's released or shot out.

Where did Hyogoro tell Luffy to build up Haki in his fist and then shoot or release it? There's no need to build something around the first if it is just going to be shot out. All Hyogoro would have done was told Luffy to simply shoot or release it. That wasn't stated. He said build it at the fist.

Why are Luffy or Hyogoro driving their arms or palms forward if the Haki shoots out their fist in the first place? Contact is made with the periphery. They still need to drive their palms or fist forward. It's not shot out. If it could be shot out, people wouldn't need to perform this technique in close distance.

People don't thrust their arms forward when shooting something. They simply aim. This isn't aiming, this is thrusting.

I showed you Luffy saying Hyo blasted Alpacaman.

Your logic here isn't stable.

He said he blasted Alpacaman away.

Viz doesn't say blast, it says knocked. You actually tried to knock down Viz which is easily the best translation just to make a claim that wasn't true? You're going out of your way to deny facts just for your theory.

And like I told you, your logic there was faulty. Blasting someone away doesn't mean they got attacked by a blast.

It's as illogical as saying someone being made to fly off an attack means they got hit by a flying attack.

You dont get this huge contact surface by focusing the Haki at the end of the palm, this is done be releasing it outside of the body, dispersing it from the palm.

Not true.

The Haki doesn't need to be as wide as the Elephant's feet in order to be impeded.

Any obstacle would impede any sized object as long as it's sturdy enough to withstand the incoming object.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

If barehanded fighters disperse it wide area it is possible that swordsmen release it too but not in wide area when they wish to cut, but in thin, sharp area. Wide area release for swordsmen happens when they dont wish to cut.

Absolutely false, lol.

You're claiming that Haki makes Swords blunted because the aura is spread out and stops the Sword from cutting? sorry, but that's just fallacious and made up.

The Sword hit the paper. If your theory was right, the Sword would never have made contact with the blade.

By such a notion, then it cuts because of the lack of Haki then? In other words, the entire purpose of Haki to a Swordsman is to not cut since the Haki will make the Sword blunt.

1. So, Zoro cut Mr.1 because the Sword was void of Haki
2. but also failed to cut Mr.1 successfully because the Sword was also void of Haki?

Great logic here.

It's absurd that you claim that Zoro was a Haki user before the time-skip, so what was he training for the past 2 years? Again, that is pure fallacy and made up on your part.

You claim that Zoro was using the so-called "ADVANCED ARMAMENT" before he learnt the basics? So, Mihawk was telling Zoro to make his Sword coated in Haki even though he was already a Goken which you claim is the manipulation of Haki?

Goken was never said to be related to Haki. Sandman_AP has confirmed it, Artur has confirmed it, yet you fallaciously say otherwise without evidence?

Brook called Ryuma and Zoro Gokens when he himself didn't even know what Haki was?

You're making baseless statements here.

 

[Fox666]

You claim that Zoro was using the so-called "ADVANCED ARMAMENT" before he learnt the basics? So, Mihawk was telling Zoro to make his Sword coated in Haki even though he was already a Goken which you claim is the manipulation of Haki?

There are different techniques that use Haki. CoO can sense someone presence, the intent of the enemy, and even see in the future. CoA can make the body hard like steel, or release a blast outside the body. Mihawk teaching Zoro one technique doesn't exclude the possibility of him already knowing how to use another technique, or that they must be learned in an specific order. Besides, assuming this is Haki, Zoro only know little of it.

 

[M3J]

I know your not a stupid guy. Just a guy with a massive ego. You do understand interpretation, correct? Just because someone else’s theory doesn’t fit with the way you interpret the information doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You’ve GOT to open your mind to the possibility that you may be wrong. As far as theories go, there is no good theory or bad theory, just likely and unlikely.

He's refused to do that before until manga forced him to open his mind. I'm being repetitive here, but HP insisted that Luffy would take on Big Mom and beat her even though he had trouble against Cracker, and it wasn't until his fight with Katakuri that HP realized Luffy's far too weak to confront Big Mom, and even though Big Mom effortlessly blocked his attacks and his and Sanji's combined attack. Just let the manga prove who's right and who's wrong, he won't budge until then or consider anything else.


Vista's swords aren't black blades though, as nik87 said. Coating them in haki doesn't make them black blades - Mihawk's is an actual black blade because it stays black whether or not he uses haki. Or did I forget whose swords HP and nik were bickering about?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

He's refused to do that before until manga forced him to open his mind. I'm being repetitive here, but HP insisted that Luffy would take on Big Mom and beat her even though he had trouble against Cracker, and it wasn't until his fight with Katakuri that HP realized Luffy's far too weak to confront Big Mom, and even though Big Mom effortlessly blocked his attacks and his and Sanji's combined attack. Just let the manga prove who's right and who's wrong, he won't budge until then or consider anything else.


Vista's swords aren't black blades though, as nik87 said. Coating them in haki doesn't make them black blades - Mihawk's is an actual black blade because it stays black whether or not he uses haki. Or did I forget whose swords HP and nik were bickering about?

By this logic of yours, then Luffy will not defeat Kaido.

You do know Luffy is going to win because it's narratively required?

Luffy only didn't win against Big Mom because her physical defeat wasn't required, Oda had her defeated in a different way.

The reality is just like Kaido is defeated, if Oda wanted Luffy to defeat Big Mom that arc, the reality is that he would have.

Like I said back then, in the scheme of things, Luffy wins.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@Hannibal Psyche

No offense, but that's not what you were saying back then. As far as I can remember you were claiming that Luffy was physically ready to defeat BM in that arc. And as a part of your reasoning you mentioned Fujitora's statement that Luffy has the strength to back up his intention to defeat all four yonkou.

That's not how things went down at all. I mean of course Luffy will defeat every one of the four emperors, that's a given. However, the debate was about that particular arc. But let's not get off-topic.

I suggest that we don't get upset over these disagreements and just wait until further explanation is given in the manga, especially considering the fact that we were just introduced to this new understanding of what haki is.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

There are different techniques that use Haki. CoO can sense someone presence, the intent of the enemy, and even see in the future. CoA can make the body hard like steel, or release a blast outside the body. Mihawk teaching Zoro one technique doesn't exclude the possibility of him already knowing how to use another technique, or that they must be learned in an specific order. Besides, assuming this is Haki, Zoro only know little of it.

Yes, different techniques in Haki. Observation is literally the only Haki that has many aspects to it.

Armament Haki on the other hand? It only has 1 form and that 1 form does 2 things at the same time being:

• Making things Hard.
• Making it possible to touch Logia.

You do know that it's being said that Zoro's performing Advanced Armament? That requires imbuing a weapon with Haki first of all and then manipulating it.

How do you apparently learn to imbue a weapon with Haki and then manipulate Haki, but then need 2 years to learn to imbue a weapon with Haki when he'd already have been doing that since the Advanced Armament requires that? That's like having an accountant degree which requires using arithmetic ability, but then have to learn to perform basic arithmetic after? It's contradictory.

It's like claiming that Luffy knows how to use Future Sight, but didn't know how to predict what his opponent before hand which was the lesser version of Future Sight?

This is called putting the cart before the horse.

It's saying that Zoro was using the so-called Advanced Armament Haki, but couldn't use an aspect of it that would already have been using?

It's like being said to be able to use Hardening, but not use the weaker version of Hardening? How does that make sense?

It'd be like being able to use Soru which is to move at extremely high speeds, but not being able to walk. Should at least be able to walk before you start running.

The problem with your comparison here is that he's not using a different Haki technique, there's only one form of Armament.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2019 ---

As far as I can remember you were claiming that Luffy was physically ready to defeat BM in that arc.

Then is Luffy ready to defeat Kaido?

Why is he going to defeat Kaido? Just about what, 17 days after WCI?

Is Kaido much weaker than Big Mom?

If Oda wants Luffy to defeat Kaido, all he has to do is have him develop his Haki, Awaken if necessary, and there we go. It's what he's doing now.

What stopped Oda from doing what he's doing this arc in WCI? Nothing other than plans he has for future arcs and the need of certain characters for whatever plots he has planned.

So, I was right, he had to defeat her.

However, Oda chose to not defeat her physically for whatever purpose he has planned for Big Mom and had her defeated metaphorically and in the scheme of things.

Entire reason I said she must be defeated was for these reasons:


My reasoning was absolutely correct.

How many days have gone by between WCI and reaching Wano? About 3 days.

How many days till Kaido is defeated from reaching Wano? 14 days.

It's simply a fact. If Oda didn't have anymore plans for Big Mom, he could have had her defeated in WCI.

And as a part of your reasoning you mentioned Fujitora's statement that Luffy has the strength to back up his intention to defeat all four yonkou.

Certainly isn't false.

The reality is if Oda wanted Big Mom defeated, he could have defeated her in WCI.

There's no reason why not to unless he has other plans for her in a different arc.

That's not how things went down at all. I mean of course Luffy will defeat every one of the four emperors, that's a given. However, the debate was about that particular arc. But let's not get off-topic.

Context.

Best that can be done is pick on trivialities that really depend on the whim of the author. The rationale is still very much accurate. If Kaido isn't defeated, it's not so much about Luffy lacking strength, simply to do with Oda not wanting Kaido out the picture.

It's impossible to predict every specific detail of a narrative, it however is possible to deduce and narrow down what ultimately must happen for plot to advance. For the WCI arc, it was narratively necessary to defeat her.
Oda was literally left with the choice of:

• Narrative defeat.
• Literal defeat.

I don't recall any of you remotely even claiming a narrative defeat.

If I recall, most of you absolutely wrote Luffy out the picture simply because "Big Mom is an Emperor" without thinking about the narrative necessity for her defeat or lack thereof.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Nope. Didn't say it made contact with the fist. I said it made contact with the periphery of his fist where the Haki surroundings.

It's surrounding his palm and it's concentrated at the end of the palm. Nothing indicating it's released or shot out.

Where did Hyogoro tell Luffy to build up Haki in his fist and then shoot or release it? There's no need to build something around the first if it is just going to be shot out. All Hyogoro would have done was told Luffy to simply shoot or release it. That wasn't stated. He said build it at the fist.

Why are Luffy or Hyogoro driving their arms or palms forward if the Haki shoots out their fist in the first place? Contact is made with the periphery. They still need to drive their palms or fist forward. It's not shot out. If it could be shot out, people wouldn't need to perform this technique in close distance.

People don't thrust their arms forward when shooting something. They simply aim. This isn't aiming, this is thrusting.

If you are thrusting forward it is to push something forward, like a haki blast. Your video shows it perfectly. Let’s imagine for a moment that Luffy isn’t Luffy in that video but a blast of haki. Thrust forward, and it flies. It’s a push no matter how you shake it.

Your logic here isn't stable.

He said he blasted Alpacaman away.

Viz doesn't say blast, it says knocked. You actually tried to knock down Viz which is easily the best translation just to make a claim that wasn't true? You're going out of your way to deny facts just for your theory.

And like I told you, your logic there was faulty. Blasting someone away doesn't mean they got attacked by a blast.

It's as illogical as saying someone being made to fly off an attack means they got hit by a flying attack.

Apples and oranges, my friend. Adjective versus verb. You throw a stick of dynamite at something and you can say it was blasted. Blasting someone literally means they were blasted. You are suggesting if he said “punching someone away doesn’t mean they were attacked by a punch.” It’s just silly.

Not true.

The Haki doesn't need to be as wide as the Elephant's feet in order to be impeded.

Any obstacle would impede any sized object as long as it's sturdy enough to withstand the incoming object.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

Absolutely false, lol.

You're claiming that Haki makes Swords blunted because the aura is spread out and stops the Sword from cutting? sorry, but that's just fallacious and made up.

The Sword hit the paper. If your theory was right, the Sword would never have made contact with the blade.

By such a notion, then it cuts because of the lack of Haki then? In other words, the entire purpose of Haki to a Swordsman is to not cut since the Haki will make the Sword blunt.

1. So, Zoro cut Mr.1 because the Sword was void of Haki
2. but also failed to cut Mr.1 successfully because the Sword was also void of Haki?

Great logic here.

I’m going to assume you meant paper here and not blade. Now having said that, if you were to surround your sword in a “sheath” of haki, it can come in contact AND not cut. With your numbers there you successfully setup a strawman! Congrats! But let’s go there anyway. 1. Zoro cut Mr. 1 because he was using haki. He likely didn’t even know It was haki he was using. 2. Failed to cut Mr.1 because of the lack of haki. It’s plain physics that if you want to cut something you need to use something as hard as or harder than what you are trying to cut.

It's absurd that you claim that Zoro was a Haki user before the time-skip, so what was he training for the past 2 years? Again, that is pure fallacy and made up on your part.

You claim that Zoro was using the so-called "ADVANCED ARMAMENT" before he learnt the basics? So, Mihawk was telling Zoro to make his Sword coated in Haki even though he was already a Goken which you claim is the manipulation of Haki?

Goken was never said to be related to Haki. Sandman_AP has confirmed it, Artur has confirmed it, yet you fallaciously say otherwise without evidence?

Brook called Ryuma and Zoro Gokens when he himself didn't even know what Haki was?

You're making baseless statements here.

Where did Brook say that he didn’t know what haki was pretimeskip? Or since he was using the term Goken, ryuou? As far as Sandman confirming anything, I didn’t know it was a code name Oda was using! News to me! If Goken isn’t related to haki in any way, they why on earth would Hyo bring it up if he was trying to teach Luffy a haki based technique? You’ve already said it’s not a projectile, so it’s not related to flying slashes. Why would he do that? Just think about the logic of that for a moment.

Let’s just say it like this. If it is simply a big thick invisible armor so it appears to be hitting nothing, how is that any different than regular CoA? Hit them with an armored fist, or a big armored fist, it’s still hitting them with armor in either circumstance. Why would it be any more powerful than his usual CoA attacks?

 

[Fox666]

This is called putting the cart before the horse.

You are the one claiming this...

 

[M3J]

By this logic of yours, then Luffy will not defeat Kaido.

You do know Luffy is going to win because it's narratively required?

Luffy only didn't win against Big Mom because her physical defeat wasn't required, Oda had her defeated in a different way.

The reality is just like Kaido is defeated, if Oda wanted Luffy to defeat Big Mom that arc, the reality is that he would have.

Like I said back then, in the scheme of things, Luffy wins.

Making things up won't help you. It's not my logic, Luffy literally got one-shot by Kaidou, and now Oda's trying to asspull his way into giving Luffy enough power to beat Kaidou, which may happen if he fights Kaidou with others. You were the one who said Luffy would beat Big Mom in the previous arc despite several proofs against it, from him saying he's there only to rescue Sanji to being too weak to beat an underling decisively.

Narratively, we learned Luffy's significantly inferior to Kaidou and Big Mom, if not to Yonkou as whole. He couldn't have beaten Big Mom.

So basically, what I was telling you all along at the time? That Big Mom could still be defeated by Luffy escaping alive with Sanji even though she could wreck Luffy if they actually fought? Just admit you were wrong, you were the one insisting that it'd come to an actual fight between the two where Luffy would win. So it's not like what you said then, it's what you say now after being proven wrong. We literally had arguments over this multiple times, even my memory isn't that bad.

Not without bad writing he wouldn't have had Luffy defeat Big Mom after the fight with Cracker, the wedding, or fight with Katakuri. If luffy somehow magically gets stronger just from meager training, then it's still bad writing unless he actually has help and slowly whittles down and beats Kaidou.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I suggest that we don't get upset over these disagreements and just wait until further explanation is given in the manga, especially considering the fact that we were just introduced to this new understanding of what haki is.

I'm not upset, maybe others are, but I'm just being factual and objective.

I don't think it's a new understanding, we already know what Haki is, we've been explained and seen what it can do in the past to understand enough about it via text and demonstrations.

Before the Goken Principle was explained, 2 years ago, I already wrote about it in detail. Not because I made it up, but because the evidence said so.

I explicitly wrote how it's about the will and desire of the Swordsman, and what did Hyogoro say? He says just by wishing or desiring it, exactly as I stated.

Hardly anything that we see is new. There's already explanations that were provided in previous chapters, they're just not liked for whatever reason.

Last week, everyone was claiming that in Wano, Haki is called Goken when it never was.

Oda hardly just introduces something new, 9/10 times, the apparently new things we see have been someone explained or touched on or hinted in past chapters. Now we learn about Goken, though it was explained as far back as chapter 194 & 195.

Like I have said before, there's no need to speculate when you've been given the answer to the question.

Here, we've literally been given an explanation. Same Haki with a practice from Swordsmanship merged together.

It's simply about reading what the Manga says without preconceptions and attachments to theories because they made it. If people want to ignore what the Manga says and make up their own theories despite being given hints and explanations, there's a price that comes with it.

 

[Hrathgrath]

If I wish to light a paper of fire, or desire, I take out a lighter and light it up. Just like a swordsmen will sheath his blade in haki is he does not wish to cut it.

Of course he could always use some telekinesis or reality warping zaniness I guess....**rolls eyes**

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's not my logic, Luffy literally got one-shot by Kaidou, and now Oda's trying to asspull his way into giving Luffy enough power to beat Kaidou, which may happen if he fights Kaidou with others. You were the one who said Luffy would beat Big Mom in the previous arc despite several proofs against it, from him saying he's there only to rescue Sanji to being too weak to beat an underling decisively.

It is your logic. And your logic simply isn't in line with the Manga, that's the problem.

Luffy will defeat Kaido, not a matter of "which may happen". Simply requires understanding the series to understand that. After reading so many arcs, it's staggering how oblivious some are.

Luffy did defeat Big Mom, I was right.

His being there to rescue Sanji didn't mean he wouldn't.

Would be like saying that he's simply there to save Sanji, not defeat Katakuri, the logic you'd be using is an atrocious one.

Point is Luffy is at a stage in the story where he has to win.

You probably didn't even think Luffy would defeat Katakuri.

Your reasoning in the arc was a myopic one, simply "Big Mom is a Yonko".

1. I was right about the Jolly Roger being able to deter Pirates because he defeated Big Mom in the scheme of things.
2. The fact it'd bolster his reputation, thus a 1.5b Bounty.
3. The fact his feats at WCI would be a point of discussion at the Reverie.

Only possible if he won. It just turns out Oda chose a different form of victory. In the scheme of things I was right.

What was your basis for your reasoning that was narratively accurate? Nothing.

Narratively, we learned Luffy's significantly inferior to Kaidou and Big Mom, if not to Yonkou as whole. He couldn't have beaten Big Mom.

Nope, wrong.

If you read the story properly, you should have learned by now that Luffy's short-lived losses are there to simply add an element of danger and tension to the story.

In the scheme of things and in the end, he wins.

Since he's going to fight Kaido, he's going to win.

No different from his losing to Crocodile, he still won in the end.

It's really not difficult to understand the progression of the story narratively.

You're only reading the story superficially and without context of previous arcs which is what ultimately propagates the story because of the implications and what needs be set up to further the story.

So basically, what I was telling you all along at the time? That Big Mom could still be defeated by Luffy escaping alive with Sanji even though she could wreck Luffy if they actually fought? Just admit you were wrong, you were the one insisting that it'd come to an actual fight between the two where Luffy would win. So it's not like what you said then, it's what you say now after being proven wrong. We literally had arguments over this multiple times, even my memory isn't that bad.

Nope, you were wrong.

It's not that Big Mom couldn't be defeated, it's that Oda didn't want her to be defeated.

If your rationale is remotely accurate, then Luffy won't defeat Kaido. We however know he will because the narrative requires it.

Same reason you claim Kaido can't be defeated is the same reason you claim Big Mom couldn't be defeated.

Thing is you're oblivious to the narrative because you read the story from a myopic stand-point.

Your arguments are inherently bad ones.

Not without bad writing he wouldn't have had Luffy defeat Big Mom after the fight with Cracker, the wedding, or fight with Katakuri. If luffy somehow magically gets stronger just from meager training, then it's still bad writing unless he actually has help and slowly whittles down and beats Kaidou.

Then you've poorly read the story bud.

Luffy got almost 1 shotted against Lucci, beaten by Blueno easily, and within what, a few hours, he fodderised Blueno and then went toe to toe with Lucci who was at least 4 times more powerful than Blueno?

Developed Gear 2 only a few days after meeting with Aokiji and embarking at Water 7. In that short amount of time, he'd gone from defeating Enel to defeating Lucci who would be many times more powerful?

Do you even know how many days Luffy has been in the New World? Less than 22 days from Fishman Island to WCI. In about 20 days, he's gone from defeating Hody Jones to defeating Katakuri?

And you're talking about getting stronger with meager training?

You're clearly oblvious and must have your head in the sand if you don't see how quickly Luffy's strength progresses.

He's gone from being unable to even touch Katakuri to within a span of about 10 hours, he's levelled up to such a degree that he defeated a commander who'd never tasted a defeat?

In 2 days, defeated 2 characters with respective values of 860m and 1057m?

You're clearly clueless about how quick Luffy's strength progression is.

He's already fully adjusted to FS and in no time, less than 9 days now, he'll probably have mastered this new technique and possibly Awakened in order to defeat Kaido.

I don't think we're reading the same story bud.

 

[M3J]

You were never right, stop lying. You kept insisting Big Mom and Luffy will fight, and Luffy will beat Big Mom in an actual fight, and you were wrong. You yourself admitted you were wrong, and that Luffy was too weak to take on Big Mom. You can twist or change what I or manga say, but you can't change what the manga showed us: Luffy's victory was in symbolism and that he'd have lost to Big Mom had he fought, just as he lost to Kaidou. He's given hype for infiltrating Big Mom's territory and making it out alive while causing chaos and ruining her plans, and if Morgans had mentioned how Luffy and even Sanji were unable to do anything to Big Mom, then more characters would know he's nowhere even a Yonkou level.

And I said may beat Kaidou as in, possibly by himself or possibly with others, one of the two. Stop proving whoever said it right that you need be more open-minded and actually be open-minded and be aware of different possibilities instead of twisting every single thing to what you want or accusing the manga or someone of saying something they never did. Your analysis tend to be pretty good, but your bias and arguments aren't. Didn't even bother to read your long post because it's just not worth the time reading your own interpretations of what I said and what the manga says and shows.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@Hannibal Psyche

That is exactly what people were saying, he was not ready at that time. He still ain't ready. The fact that he needs training/power-ups simply proves that. Yeah, his progress is astonishingly fast, doesn't mean he can achieve yonko level in one day. There are steps one needs to go through first. Learning FS, improving on stamina, overall strength, haki.

It's really that simple.

I don't know why we need to overcomplicate things here and talk about winning narratively, when the argument (at least that I'm referring to) was about strength.

But this discussion belongs to the power level thread, so not gonna get off-topic any further.

 

[nik87]

It's surrounding his palm and it's concentrated at the end of the palm. Nothing indicating it's released or shot out

Do you see a difference between this area you presented and this area I presented? One is simple coating while the another is release.

There is a huge difference between these two.

Where did Hyogoro tell Luffy to build up Haki in his fist and then shoot or release it? There's no need to build something around the first if it is just going to be shot out. All Hyogoro would have done was told Luffy to simply shoot or release it. That wasn't stated. He said build it at the fist.

Why are Luffy or Hyogoro driving their arms or palms forward if the Haki shoots out their fist in the first place? Contact is made with the periphery. They still need to drive their palms or fist forward. It's not shot out. If it could be shot out, people wouldn't need to perform this technique in close distance.

People don't thrust their arms forward when shooting something. They simply aim. This isn't aiming, this is thrusting.

Please, dont go full retard on me now just to be able to keep arguing something that is, you must know it by now, on glass legs.
Why are people driving their hands forward if they are shooting... LOL. Why is Goku doing the same when shooting Kamehameha? Why is Naruto doing the same when using Rasengan? Why are people who shoot guns holding their hands forward? It is a very basic of combat. Don't ask such questions. If you fail to see why they trust their hands forward to release a Haki blast, I really cant help you there.

Your logic here isn't stable.
He said he blasted Alpacaman away.

Viz doesn't say blast, it says knocked. You actually tried to knock down Viz which is easily the best translation just to make a claim that wasn't true? You're going out of your way to deny facts just for your theory.
And like I told you, your logic there was faulty. Blasting someone away doesn't mean they got attacked by a blast.
It's as illogical as saying someone being made to fly off an attack means they got hit by a flying attack.

I have told you that you give too much credit to translators and they are doing a lousy job, still thanks to them for doing it anyway, however, you gotta think about what actually happened. No one was knocked away or blasted away, Alpacaman was simply blasted, hit by a Haki blast. The away part doesnt exist.

Not true.
The Haki doesn't need to be as wide as the Elephant's feet in order to be impeded.
Any obstacle would impede any sized object as long as it's sturdy enough to withstand the incoming object.

It doesnt need to be as big as elephant's foot but it was that big. You dont get it that big without huge release of Haki.

Absolutely false, lol.

You're claiming that Haki makes Swords blunted because the aura is spread out and stops the Sword from cutting? sorry, but that's just fallacious and made up.

The Sword hit the paper. If your theory was right, the Sword would never have made contact with the blade.

By such a notion, then it cuts because of the lack of Haki then? In other words, the entire purpose of Haki to a Swordsman is to not cut since the Haki will make the Sword blunt.

1. So, Zoro cut Mr.1 because the Sword was void of Haki
2. but also failed to cut Mr.1 successfully because the Sword was also void of Haki?

Great logic here.

All you need to do is actually look at the evidence that you provide. You own evidence proves your claims wrong.

For this shadow to exist there has to be space between the sword and the paper, that means the sword is not touching the paper. There is something in between and you know exactly what it is. That shadow cannot exist if there is actual contact between the sword and paper.

It's absurd that you claim that Zoro was a Haki user before the time-skip, so what was he training for the past 2 years? Again, that is pure fallacy and made up on your part.

You claim that Zoro was using the so-called "ADVANCED ARMAMENT" before he learnt the basics? So, Mihawk was telling Zoro to make his Sword coated in Haki even though he was already a Goken which you claim is the manipulation of Haki?

Goken was never said to be related to Haki. Sandman_AP has confirmed it, Artur has confirmed it, yet you fallaciously say otherwise without evidence?

Brook called Ryuma and Zoro Gokens when he himself didn't even know what Haki was?

You're making baseless statements here.

Yes. Is it so hard to believe that a swordsman was releasing Haki through the sword before he was able to do hardening? Zoro was mastering the Hardening part, not the release part. Hardening is advanced way of using CoA as well.
Goken is irrelevant, if it signifies a swordsman skilled enough to release Haki in flying slash sure, if not it's of no use in this argument.
Brook called them Goken based on them both being able to send flying slashes. He saw nothing else of their combat prior to that.

Regarding Luffy vs Big Mom/Kaido. He wasnt strong enough to beat BM, that's why it didnt happen in WCI, everyone knows that by now. He will never beat Kaido in 1vs1.