Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[King Moe]

Either way, still useless and nothing to brag about. The "food gag" works because Luffy eats food for energy, and Tankman probably requires a lot of energy to use. Tankman also has use in battle, while hearing women cry doesn't.

I don't give a shit about the anime. How often has Luffy dodged attacks without Future Sight, and was Katakuri calm or did he try to interfere to change the outcome? It makes plenty of sense, we have at least two proof where Katakuri did not see the new outcome from his interfering. He was probably too arrogant or didn't expect the opponent/s to know CoO or go out of Gear 4, but it can be safely proven that Katakuri's inability to see the new outcome has very little to do with the opponents and more to do with him.

Not a feat. Luffy and almost anyone with CoO can replicate this. Sanji was on high guard because he knew there'd be betrayal, he just didn't know from whom. Had Katakuri not interfered before the priest attacked, then Sanji would have dodged the priest's shot and possibly Katakuri's as well.

Nah same situation. By that logic it useless too cause when we ever seen Luffy eating food means something than anything else. It hold to same standard and Sanji can hear other voices than just woman given he heard another voice seems like attacking the female voice. It is useful and make sense.

He did dodge attacks even when he is calm like that spear weapon of his and only got hurt later because Flampe got involved to land a hit. Also that make zero sense, your in New World. Majority of notable characters know Haki. He has his fair share of battles and wouldn't stop until he done the job and not underestimate. Luffy and Sanji were just that skill to outpredict as they aren't douches in Haki. Bege even said that they can 'change' his FS by their own merits to outpredict him.

You mean dodge with COO, yes. Dodge with someone with FS and YC? No. It wouldn't be easy especially Katakuri is too diligent to allow him be sloppy. While Sanji was on guard, he doesn't know who will attack him first, so for him to use COO to outpredict Katakuri's COO in those seconds shows he is very skilled on his Haki. He merely told about the Priest will attack him, not the others or at least didn't know who was going to strike to say as he is not aware by many of their abilities.

 

[M3J]

You're making no sense here. Being able to hear women isn't going to help Sanji if he goes up against strong male fighters.

Spear weapon? You mean when Luffy was learning to use Future Sight?

Sanji didn't outpredict shit though. Oda never showed us Sanji being able to predict anything, he only did what anyone with CoO should be able to do. Show me where Sanji actually saw the future the way Katakuri and Luffy while fighting Katakuri and afterwards can do.

Katakuri has been sloppy, and he's never used Future Sight to see what would happen if he interfered.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Either way, still useless and nothing to brag about. The "food gag" works because Luffy eats food for energy, and Tankman probably requires a lot of energy to use. Tankman also has use in battle, while hearing women cry doesn't.

I don't give a shit about the anime. How often has Luffy dodged attacks without Future Sight, and was Katakuri calm or did he try to interfere to change the outcome? It makes plenty of sense, we have at least two proof where Katakuri did not see the new outcome from his interfering. He was probably too arrogant or didn't expect the opponent/s to know CoO or go out of Gear 4, but it can be safely proven that Katakuri's inability to see the new outcome has very little to do with the opponents and more to do with him.

Not a feat. Luffy and almost anyone with CoO can replicate this. Sanji was on high guard because he knew there'd be betrayal, he just didn't know from whom. Had Katakuri not interfered before the priest attacked, then Sanji would have dodged the priest's shot and possibly Katakuri's as well.

i agree. Not trying to downplay sanji feats, but he just did basic CoO move

 

[King Moe]

You're making no sense here. Being able to hear women isn't going to help Sanji if he goes up against strong male fighters.

Spear weapon? You mean when Luffy was learning to use Future Sight?

Sanji didn't outpredict shit though. Oda never showed us Sanji being able to predict anything, he only did what anyone with CoO should be able to do. Show me where Sanji actually saw the future the way Katakuri and Luffy while fighting Katakuri and afterwards can do.

Katakuri has been sloppy, and he's never used Future Sight to see what would happen if he interfered.

He can here more than women as never stated he can't hear others than just woman. He can choose who he likes to hear, but of course it be women given his traits. He be helpful just like Luffy's food gag can be helpful if it happens.

Luffy didn't have FS when he was dodging Katakuri's spear. Look at manga as he was still dodging his attacks before wondering on learning on FS much.

He did outpredict him just like Luffy did. I never say he has FS, but you can use high level of COO to still counter an FS user and Katakuri being sloppy make zero sense when he was build to be on guard and make sure things go good. To be able to pull one over him is a feat regardless. Also what you mean? He did use FS on Sanji when he saw him dodging priest's attack. If he knew he would dodge his own attack too, he would do something else to make up on it, but instead he got counter by Sanji's COO the same.

 

[Nie Li]

I'm sorry, I love Zoro and all, but when/where has it been confirmed he used ryou and coo in the fight against Mr1?

It was hinted.

This is Hyogoro's explanation on how they understand Armament Haki on Wano.

This is the lesson from his master that Zoro remembered right before cutting through steel.

The translation in the last panel isn't official nor good: he literally says the same phrase as Hyogoro about not being able to cut the thinnest of paper.

This hints that Zoro followed his master's lessons and started using CoA without even knowing he was doing so.

I think there was also something about hearing the breath of things but I can't find that right now.

 

[Nie Li]

It was hinted.

This is Hyogoro's explanation on how they understand Armament Haki on Wano.

This is the lesson from his master that Zoro remembered right before cutting through steel.

The translation in the last panel isn't official nor good: he literally says the same phrase as Hyogoro about not being able to cut the thinnest of paper.

This hints that Zoro followed his master's lessons and started using CoA without even knowing he was doing so.

I think there was also something about hearing the breath of things but I can't find that right now.

PD: Don't know if I should have added this piece of trivia but Zoro's master came from Wano. Which is why his explanation is the same than Hyogoro's.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I'm sorry, I love Zoro and all, but when/where has it been confirmed he used ryou and coo in the fight against Mr1?
Observation seems possible, Ryou is unlikely.

Zoro never used Haki at Alabasta. People just misunderstood what exactly happened there.

However, it's likely Zoro has developed this new form of Haki it IF he's going to kill Kaido based on the hints we've been given. If he can't cut or injure Kaido, he surely wouldn't be fighting Kaido. It'd surely just have been Luffy and Kid at the very least.

The one thing we know is this Sword Zoro uses forces out Haki from the user implying it could naturally allow the user to use this form of Haki. People who can't control it lose consciousness because they use the entirety of their Haki. Zoro seems to have mastered it, so I'm guessing he's likely able to use it now.

There are benefits of the doubt that we passively have to give to main characters of the series.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

This is the lesson from his master that Zoro remembered right before cutting through steel.

Cutting through steel is not the same thing as Haki.

Haki's not the ability to cut steel.

 

[Nie Li]

Cutting through steel is not the same thing as Haki.

Haki's not the ability to cut steel.

"Not cutting through paper but cutting through steel" is how Hyogoro explained ryo. If you have any complaints take them to Wano samurai.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

"Not cutting through paper but cutting through steel" is how Hyogoro explained ryo. If you have any complaints take them to Wano samurai.

Not what he did.

What people don't understand is Ryou just means Haki. People of Wano call Haki Ryou... It's no different to how people in Skypiea call Observation Haki Mantra.

What Hyogoro explained was the combination of 2 things.

• The combination of Haki (Ryou)
• With the Breath of all things

Zoro never used Haki pre-timeskip.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

I agree that he'll surely be able to cut and injure him, it's the killing that I'm not convinced of, not cause he couldn't but just cause it doesn't feel like this kind of manga. Or at the very least, it's a little late for OP to turn into this kind of manga. But again, it's mostly my personal reading&feeling, I could be wrong

I see what you mean, it's pretty drastic. He may just be the exception.

Unless they can just injure him and lock him up for good. Maybe he won't be killed, but death seems necessary if imprisonment is not an option.

Also have to consider the fact he's obsessed with death as are the people of Wano and Samurai ideology. He might be one of the few characters where death is necessary, and as you say, maybe not death.

 

[Nie Li]

The way they explain it are indeed similar, but I'll await an official confirmation, SBS or explicitely stated on the manga

Of course, they're only hints.

Not what he did.

What people don't understand is Ryou just means Haki. People of Wano call Haki Ryou... It's no different to how people in Skypiea call Observation Haki Mantra.

What Hyogoro explained was the combination of 2 things.

• The combination of Haki (Ryou)
• With the Breath of all things

Zoro never used Haki pre-timeskip.

You're confirming my point.

First: Ryou isn't "Haki", it's "Armament Haki".

Second:
How are you failing to see that what Hyogoro explained is exactly the same lesson from Koshiro that allowed Zoro to suddenly cut more than he was able to seconds before?

Third:
Yes, the "breath of all things".

Isn't it crazy that's literally what Zoro used?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

And just to also address it, on the topic of CoO, in the same scene we have this:

Spoiler: CoO

Followed by a later scene of Zoro knowing he had tapped into some kind of power in that extreme situation, and wanting to freely unlock it.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

First: Ryou isn't "Haki", it's "Armament Haki".

Semantics. Pretty obvious I meant Armament.

Second:
How are you failing to see that what Hyogoro explained is exactly the same lesson from Koshiro that allowed Zoro to suddenly cut more than he was able to seconds before?

What?

I've written in depth about this explicitly lol...

Spoiler

For one, you're using a bad translation.

The VIZ makes things a lot clearer and is far different from what you're reading on some of the terribly translated sites.

Third:
Yes, the "breath of all things".

Isn't it crazy that's literally what Zoro used?

Umm... I said he used BOAT.

Not Haki.

Haki is an invisible force that makes things hard and affects Logia.

BOAT is the ability to tell your Sword what to do (e.g. no matter how sharp it is, if you don't want it to cut paper... it won't... thus why Kyoshiro failed to cut a leaf purposely).

Advanced Armament Haki is Armament Haki controlled with the BOAT ability which is what people don't understand.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

And just to also address it, on the topic of CoO, in the same scene we have this:

Not CoO mate.

Observation Haki works for living things, sensing them.

Not rocks and inanimate things.

 

[Nie Li]

Semantics. Pretty obvious I meant Armament.

Not so obvious, since you felt the need to say that "people fail to realize Ryo = Haki" when no one now had made the mistake of thinking it was something else.

What?

I've written in depth about this explicitly lol...

Spoiler

Care to summarize what is relevant to this discussion or must I read through one full page of your opinions?

For one, you're using a bad translation.

The VIZ makes things a lot clearer and is far different from what you're reading on some of the terribly translated sites.

I know the translation is bad, I pointed it out myself in the original comment.

Indeed, the official translation makes it a lot clearer that what Hyogoro said and what Koshiro taught Zoro are the same thing, thus hinting it was CoA.

Umm... I said he used BOAT.

Not Haki.

No. You didn't say anything about what Zoro had used.

Haki is an invisible force that makes things hard and affects Logia.

BOAT is the ability to tell your Sword what to do (e.g. no matter how sharp it is, if you don't want it to cut paper... it won't... thus why Kyoshiro failed to cut a leaf purposely).

Advanced Armament Haki is Armament Haki controlled with the BOAT ability which is what people don't understand.

So what you're saying is that Zoro tapped into advanced armament haki back in Arabasta?

Cool.

BOAT has never appeared as a separate concept from Haki usage. So you don't have anything to support its an entirely different concept that can work on its own. Your only proof to sustain your point is that "Zoro never used haki in Arabasta", but you can't use the conclusion of this argument as a way to justify how you arrive to that conclusion.

Not CoO mate.

Observation Haki works for living things, sensing them.

Not rocks and inanimate things.

Then explain what it was.

Does Zoro have another form of supernatural sensing ability that allows him to know where the rocks would fall or where his sword was? Or that allows him to know Chopper was carrying Sandai Kitetsu on Water 7 when he couldn't see him?

I think it was CoO, but if you think he has more powers that's cool too.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Care to summarize what is relevant to this discussion or must I read through one full page of your opinions?

If you read the VIZ and other Translations, there's a big difference. VIZ segments 2 statements whereas the others make it feel like they're talking about 1 thing.

VIZ makes it clear the fight thing being spoken about is "Haki" or "Armament Haki" to be precise... the invisible power.

Hyo then goes on to speak about a Katana... to Luffy? He says a good Katana will cut when you want it to cut... and also not cut when you don't want it to do so. That's what we see Koshiro demonstrating.

What's Hyo speaking about here though? It's what Koshiro is speaking about. Koshiro says a blade injures all it touches isn't really a sword. Koshiro most importantly states the pinnacle of Swordsmanship is the ability to protect what one wishes to protect and cut what they don't want to cut (e.g. Sharp blade that would cut paper... doesn't cut because the Swordsman doesn't want it to cut).

Long story short, Zoro learns this ability. The ability to cut and not cut. Even more than that, this is the ABILITY TO CONVEY ONE'S WILL into a weapon.

How exactly is this ability pulled off?

As Zoro is experiencing here... it's a heightened state where he's extremely focused and hypersensitive. When he gets into this mental Zone, the BOAT ability becomes possible. The Sword understands his will when he enters this state. This is what is called BOAT. He experiences this when he's close to death... but also, this ability can be learnt without being at death's door.

This is why Zoro is learning to focus harder so he can enter a state where he can use the BOAT (ability to convey will into a blade) technique.

If you read the chapter this is from... Hyo says he was known as a MIGHTY BLADE (aka GOKEN) in the past. A MIGHTY BLADE is a Swordsman that can convey their will into their blade.

Do you know where else the term MIGHTY BLADE is used?

Spoiler

It's in the chapter where Zoro used this BOAT Technique.

Do you know where else this term MIGHTY BLADR is used?

Spoiler

In Thriller Bark. Zoro and Ryuma are said to be MIGHTY BLADES/GOKENS... people who can convey their will into their blade.

Just to bring it all together.

Right after Alabasta where we see Zoro training to use this technique as 1 of the images above indicates... Zoro uses the BOAT technique in Skypiea.

Look at what Zoro is saying... he's saying he has a cannon aimed at the enemy.. but we know it's a Sword. However, once he executes the attack, it becomes like a literal cannon or flying attack.
Zoro conveyed his will into his blade that it is a cannon, and thus... acts like a cannon.

So, BOAT is simply the ability to convey one's will into a blade.

You know when Zoro uses Asura? Or techniques that make him appear like a Dragon? or Gorilla? Or techniques that let him use Fire based techniques? It's thanks to BOAT. He conveys his will into his weapon that he's a demon, and he literally becomes a demon. He conveys his will into his blade using a Dragon technique, it develops Dragon qualities.



How is this related to the Haki Hyo taught Luffy? The relation is the ability to convey one's will into a weapon gives them greater power with that weapon. If used on a Sword, the Sword can do various more things. If used in Haki, you acquire the ability to manipulate it and perform the new advanced Haki technique that can destroy the user from the inside.
BOAT is a principle used by Swordsmen (Might Blade Masters/GOKENs). It's however a principle that can be utilised outside of Swordsmanship.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

No. You didn't say anything about what Zoro had used.

As you can see below...

Not what he did.

What people don't understand is Ryou just means Haki. People of Wano call Haki Ryou... It's no different to how people in Skypiea call Observation Haki Mantra.

What Hyogoro explained was the combination of 2 things.

• The combination of Haki (Ryou)
• With the Breath of all things

Zoro never used Haki pre-timeskip.

Entire reason I mentioned BOAT was to hint at the fact what Zoro used was BOAT, not Haki.

 

[King Moe]

Just going to say no evidence on Zoro having same level of Luffy of Adv. COA even with Enma otherwise struggle with Apoo wouldn't last so long and needing 2 vs 1 to boot. Let's not get it twisted on that as what Luffy is doing is another different level by far from what Zoro has.

 

[Nie Li]

If you read the VIZ and other Translations, there's a big difference. VIZ segments 2 statements whereas the others make it feel like they're talking about 1 thing.

VIZ makes it clear the fight thing being spoken about is "Haki" or "Armament Haki" to be precise... the invisible power.

Hyo then goes on to speak about a Katana... to Luffy? He says a good Katana will cut when you want it to cut... and also not cut when you don't want it to do so. That's what we see Koshiro demonstrating.

What's Hyo speaking about here though? It's what Koshiro is speaking about. Koshiro says a blade injures all it touches isn't really a sword. Koshiro most importantly states the pinnacle of Swordsmanship is the ability to protect what one wishes to protect and cut what they don't want to cut (e.g. Sharp blade that would cut paper... doesn't cut because the Swordsman doesn't want it to cut).

Long story short, Zoro learns this ability. The ability to cut and not cut. Even more than that, this is the ABILITY TO CONVEY ONE'S WILL into a weapon.

How exactly is this ability pulled off?

As Zoro is experiencing here... it's a heightened state where he's extremely focused and hypersensitive. When he gets into this mental Zone, the BOAT ability becomes possible. The Sword understands his will when he enters this state. This is what is called BOAT. He experiences this when he's close to death... but also, this ability can be learnt without being at death's door.

This is why Zoro is learning to focus harder so he can enter a state where he can use the BOAT (ability to convey will into a blade) technique.

If you read the chapter this is from... Hyo says he was known as a MIGHTY BLADE (aka GOKEN) in the past. A MIGHTY BLADE is a Swordsman that can convey their will into their blade.

Do you know where else the term MIGHTY BLADE is used?

Spoiler

It's in the chapter where Zoro used this BOAT Technique.

Do you know where else this term MIGHTY BLADR is used?

Spoiler

In Thriller Bark. Zoro and Ryuma are said to be MIGHTY BLADES/GOKENS... people who can convey their will into their blade.

Just to bring it all together.

Right after Alabasta where we see Zoro training to use this technique as 1 of the images above indicates... Zoro uses the BOAT technique in Skypiea.

Look at what Zoro is saying... he's saying he has a cannon aimed at the enemy.. but we know it's a Sword. However, once he executes the attack, it becomes like a literal cannon or flying attack.
Zoro conveyed his will into his blade that it is a cannon, and thus... acts like a cannon.

So, BOAT is simply the ability to convey one's will into a blade.

You know when Zoro uses Asura? Or techniques that make him appear like a Dragon? or Gorilla? Or techniques that let him use Fire based techniques? It's thanks to BOAT. He conveys his will into his weapon that he's a demon, and he literally becomes a demon. He conveys his will into his blade using a Dragon technique, it develops Dragon qualities.



How is this related to the Haki Hyo taught Luffy? The relation is the ability to convey one's will into a weapon gives them greater power with that weapon. If used on a Sword, the Sword can do various more things. If used in Haki, you acquire the ability to manipulate it and perform the new advanced Haki technique that can destroy the user from the inside.
BOAT is a principle used by Swordsmen (Might Blade Masters/GOKENs). It's however a principle that can be utilised outside of Swordsmanship.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

As you can see below...



Entire reason I mentioned BOAT was to hint at the fact what Zoro used was BOAT, not Haki.

I have read through your whole post.

While the concept seems interesting (and it does explain Zoro's abilities on Enies Lobby, which are otherwise left unexplained, because they're clearly not haki), it's still only a theory based on assumptions.

The thing is, in that panel you posted of Hyogoro's explanation, you make a point that it's two different explanations, but I, honest to God, don't see it that way. Any way I look at it he's talking about only one concept, which is the way they interpret haki in Wano.

So no matter how interesting your proposal is, it does not convince me at all. I believe that you see Hyogoro's explanation as two different things because that's what suits your interpretation. To me, the simplest explanation (and so, the most likely one) is to take the references Oda threw on our faces, and those references point at that Zoro used both types of haki for a moment against Mr.1. Of course, without mastering them, but he tapped into them for a moment.

About the Gouken thing. I have read in the past a much different (and better, in my opinion) interpretation that also mentions the existence of Juuken (Gentle Blades) and puts these as simply two different general categories of swordsmen, in which the kind of Zoro, Ryuma and Hyogoro simply favor strength as the basis for their swordsmanship. They're not "superior swordsmen" per se and it has nothing to do with BOAT. They're just a kind of swordsman. While your interpretation is interesting, it's based around assumptions, and stretches, too: The scene with of Zoro vs Brahm is not BOAT nor haki, it's just a normal spiraling flying slash, not Zoro using his mind to turn his blade into some cannon. That was just a metaphor of sorts, nothing else.


Also, I see that you've not addressed his "CoO-like" powers on Arabasta and Water 7. Do you have an opinion on those?

Just going to say no evidence on Zoro having same level of Luffy of Adv. COA even with Enma otherwise struggle with Apoo wouldn't last so long and needing 2 vs 1 to boot. Let's not get it twisted on that as what Luffy is doing is another different level by far from what Zoro has.

Cool, but that is not what we're talking about.

We don't know yet what kind of haki Zoro can use now but we will see it in a few chapters. There's indeed no evidence of him having the same kind of advanced haki Luffy is using now.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

While the concept seems interesting (and it does explain Zoro's abilities on Enies Lobby, which are otherwise left unexplained, because they're clearly not haki), it's still only a theory based on assumptions.

No assumptions were made.

What exactly was assumed?

What exactly did I make up?

So no matter how interesting your proposal is, it does not convince me at all.

That's irrelevant. Has nothing to do with convincing you.

I could tell you Luffy's a Paramecia and you could reply you're not convinced. It wouldn't matter. Facts are facts. Just stating facts.

What Hyogoro was talking about was 2 things, Haki and BOAT. Not Haki alone. It's a fact BOAT isn't Haki. So, whether or not you want to believe it or not is really not relevant, that's your choice.

The scene with of Zoro vs Brahm is not BOAT nor haki, it's just a normal spiraling flying slash

Wrong.

It's BOAT, thus why he has says "my sword is a cannon"... a mantra he utters like he's psyching himself. As Boat is... it's conveying one's will into a blade. Simple as that.

Also, you clearly missed the fact that err... Brook called Ryuma a GOKEN because he used flying attacks which require the ability to convey one's will into their blade.

Dead bodies cannot use Haki, they can however have a will... So, when Brook calls both Zoro and Ryuma GOKEN/Mighty SWORD users... it's because they use BOAT.
Also, at this point, Brook is unaware of Haki, so no way he's calling Ryuma and Zoro Haki users.

Also, I see that you've not addressed his "CoO-like" powers on Arabasta and Water 7. Do you have an opinion on those?

Umm... I did.

Did you miss the fact that BOAT requires intense concentration? It's hypersensitivity, not Haki.

Haki doesn't sense inanimate objects, only living things. That's a fact.

Cursed blades can also be sensed, has nothing to do with Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2020 ---

Coincidence?

Kaku saying Zoro created Asura through what? Will.

Like I said... conveying wills.

That's what BOAT does, allows one to convey their will into their weapon.

 

[Nie Li]

No assumptions were made.

What exactly was assumed?

What exactly did I make up?

Everything you said about BOAT is an assumption. You can call it facts, doesn't make it so.

That's irrelevant. Has nothing to do with convincing you.

I could tell you Luffy's a Paramecia and you could reply you're not convinced. It wouldn't matter. Facts are facts. Just stating facts.

You have theories and we're discussing them. You're not lecturing me on One Piece, you're pitching your theories, because this is a debate in which you have very different interpretations than I do. This is all about convincing the other.

What you call facts is only "I believe Hyogoro talked about two different things, I believe Gouken is this and I believe BOAT is that". These are not facts.

What Hyogoro was talking about was 2 things, Haki and BOAT. Not Haki alone. It's a fact BOAT isn't Haki. So, whether or not you want to believe it or not is really not relevant, that's your choice.

Assumption. And the least convincing of them all that seems to be straight against the dialogue.

Wrong.

It's BOAT, thus why he has says "my sword is a cannon"... a mantra he utters like he's psyching himself. As Boat is... it's conveying one's will into a blade. Simple as that.

Wrong.

It's just a flying slash. It's no different from Rankyaku. It's not haki and it's not BOAT. It was not a mantra to himself, it was clearly a taunt for Brahm.

Also, you clearly missed the fact that err... Brook called Ryuma a GOKEN because he used flying attacks which require the ability to convey one's will into their blade.

Dead bodies cannot use Haki, they can however have a will...

You missed three facts here.

1- If Ryuma had a will, he could use haki. However, why didn't he use it? Because he was limited to Brook's techniques and fighting styles, and Brook is incapable of proper haki.

2- Point 1 is irrelevant, because it was just a flying slash attack: that is neither BOAT nor haki.

3- They didn't call him Gouken because he used a flying slash attack. That was not Ryuma's technique, that was Brook, as per his own words. What was surprising is that when Brook used that technique it wasn't even half as destructive, but when used by Ryuma's body (who was limited to Brook's techniques because he had his shadow) it came out as a very strong long-range attack. He was called a Gouken because he fits the category of a swordsman that bases his swordsmanship on overwhelming strength, unlike Brook.

It fits perfectly with my interpretation of what a Gouken is, so, yet again, what you have are assumptions, not facts, and you should care about bein convincing with them. If you don't care about convincing and neither do you care not for how other people interpret the manga, this is pointless.

Umm... I did.

Did you miss the fact that BOAT requires intense concentration? It's hypersensitivity, not Haki.

Haki doesn't sense inanimate objects, only living things. That's a fact.

Cursed blades can also be sensed, has nothing to do with Haki.

It is true that haki is for sensing living things. There you do have a point.

However, this particular point in which you have a point doesn't point towards BOAT having anything to do with conveying wills. As it can be interpreted that locating these objects is simply related to hearing (and distinguishing) their breaths, it precisely has nothing to do with will, unless you're saying these inanimate objects like the falling rocks have wills.

Coincidence?

Kaku saying Zoro created Asura through what? Will.

Like I said... conveying wills.

That's what BOAT does, allows one to convey their will into their weapon.

There's nothing at all to indicate Asura has anything to do with BOAT. To say it does is an assumption.

You can say "wills" is the link, but it is not, because you haven't proven that BOAT is related to the will of the person, and your examples on Gouken and flying slashes are in my opinion entirely faulty.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Everything you said about BOAT is an assumption. You can call it facts, doesn't make it so.

Nope, if you read properly, it does tell us BOAT is the ability to convey wills into the blade.

How that's made up is laughable, lol.

It's pretty simple > BOAT is the ability to convey will into a weapon > It is used by GOKEN/MIGHTBLADE masters.

You can be in denial all you want.

End of the day, what Zoro used wasn't Haki... Haki isn't the ability to cut steel assuming you know what Armament Haki does.

There's nothing at all to indicate Asura has anything to do with BOAT. To say it does is an assumption.

Sure bud.

The fact that it's done with the power of the will is completely irrelevant. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Nie Li]

Nope, if you read properly, it does tell us BOAT is the ability to convey wills into the blade.

How that's made up is laughable, lol.

If you read properly you would realize that my interpretation does not deny BOAT is the ability to convey "wills" into the blade. After all, haki is ambition.

It's pretty simple > BOAT is the ability to convey will into a weapon > It is used by GOKEN/MIGHTBLADE masters.

The example you used to justify what you believe Goukens are was flawed to hell, as already explained. Gouken and flying slashes have nothing to do with BOAT as far as what facts tell us.

You can be in denial all you want.

End of the day, what Zoro used wasn't Haki... Haki isn't the ability to cut steel assuming you know what Armament Haki does.

The way you sum up my view as if I ever said "haki is the ability to cut steel" as to underplay it is childish.

Haki is an ability that allows to augment one's power and durability, so yes, in this specific case, it translates into being able to cut steel (on top of that, without damaging the blade) when seconds before, without haki, you couldn't even scratch it.

You can theorize on it being another thing altogether and it's cool to have theories. Parts of them could even be right, but it's wrong to call them facts. I understand the effort you put into your theory, but it's far from perfect.

Sure bud.

The fact that it's done with the power of the will is completely irrelevant. Keep telling yourself that.

It does not prove in any way that it uses BOAT nor that BOAT is unrelated to haki, which was anyway what you were trying to argue. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[M3J]

HP's argument this past week over Luffy going back to WCI should prove that it's a waste of time trying to debate with him. He literally provided evidence that Luffy's reason for going back to WCI would be to beat Big Mom, but he ignored that part and focused only on Luffy saying yes to Katakuri asking if he'll be back, despite Luffy answer that AFTER Katakuri added, "to topple BIg Mom?" If that doesn't tell you how HP read what he wants and twists context to what he wants, then nothing will. Don't pay attention to him ironically telling others to read between the lines, the context, or whatnot, that's just to distract from his inability to do that.

Don't waste your time, let the manga prove you right or wrong.