You clearly didn't understand a word of what I wrote. I brought up the power diversity to illustrate the differences between the two clans and how they specialize in different things, which is important for when you want to compare the two. If goddess healing is inherently better at recovering injuries than demon regeneration then you wouldn't get a good idea of which side of Tristan's powers is stronger by comparing his healing to his regen. The goddess side has unfair advantage so the result would most likely be skewed. In case you're still struggling with this concept, consider some of the even more pronounced differences between the clans. For example, fairies are noted for having very low physical stats, to the point that Gloxinia had less physical strength than Margaret. A random human would defeat the fairy king in wrestling match, but that obviously doesn't mean the human is overall stronger than the fairy. If there was a fairy/giant hybrid similar to Tristan in the sense that they had two distinct sides to their powers which they could activate individually, then you wouldn't use punching strength to determine which side was stronger, because the giant side would have a huge advantage in that particular area. Likewise you wouldn't want to make it into a contest of mobility since fairies with their wings are much more agile than giants. How would you compare them then? The best option would be to examine a trait shared by both clans, like the ability to create golems as seen with Drole and Diane on the giant side and Gloxinia and Tioreh on the fairy side. Have the theoretical fairy/giant hybrid create one golem of each type and then see which one performs better.
What I'm getting at is that if you want to compare the power of Tristan's two sides you need to use a point of comparison where neither side has an unfair advantage due to what each clan specializes in. The only such example we've seen so far in the story was Tristan using both sides of his magic to create very similar basic magic projectiles. When he slammed them together they cancelled each other out, indicating that they were of equal strength. Other such scenarios would be something like Tristan using a Heaven's Lightning enchant on one blade and a Hellblaze enchant on the other, and then hitting a target with no resistance to either element with them to see which one does more damage. Judging by the names I'd wager Hellblaze Omega and Omega Ark would probably work as good points of comparison as well. Those are apples to apples comparisons rather than the apples to oranges one you're using to evaluate Tristan's powers.
I am sure I understood your words completely, but my understanding of them does not mean agreeing with them, especially when they lack logic and contradict the facts.
It's amazing how you talk about the G-Clan as if they were just glass cannons with powerful magic and hax when we saw how Tarmiel was physically stronger than anyone in the Ten Commandments except maybe Zeldris and Mael and Ludociel who had physical strength that rivaled if not even surpassed the likes of Zeldris (the 3/4 strongest demon in 7ds).
And you can't use diversity to justify how Tristan with G powers can't do anything against opponents he could easily defeat if he used his demonic powers.
Tristan G-side can't beat even base Schwartz when his demon mode beat Melagalande easily
Just because you're a magical type fighter doesn't mean you can't win or put up a decent fight
King was a magical fighter but he didn't lose all his fights or be weaker than any stronger opponent who better than him physicaly.
And using the "annihilation" technique to claim that his powers are equal is just deception.
It was not mentioned that you need to put two equal forces of darkness and light to use annihilation and even if Tristan did he was holding back his demonic powers at the time so that he would not lash out and harm the others.
Although they only fought for a short time, Gawain seems strong enough to give a hard time to Percival. Also, Tristan did go on a journey in Camelot, he even got separated from his subordinates for at least a year. Gawain is the only one who stayed at home. I don't see the point of a timeskip if there is still such a gap between the four.
Sure, it was similar to matter and antimatter, but that's not really how PoD and Ark have been described. PoD straight up loses to Ark in Elemental RPS. At equal power how can they cancel each other out?
Firstly, there is no statement in the manga, fanbook or Q/A saying that PoD loses to Ark!! We have the statement that Ark is effective against Darkness which is completely intuitive and it doesn't in any way mean the opposite isn't true! It all depends on the level of the two clans' members. For instance, Ludociel's Ark was quite effective against Monspiet and Derriere at first, but when they went Indura, it was totally ineffective against them. But then again, we've seen them struggling even in Indura mode against Elizabeth's light which was clealy overpowering them.
It's quite strange of you asking this when we've all seen it plainly done by Tristan 2 TIMES against the Testament Beast!
During the fight against the Beast, its darkness projectile collided with one of Tristan's falling stars, they annihilated each other despite the Beast's projectile being clearly bigger in size and the Beast itself was clearly more powerful than Tristan at the time! What does that tell us? It simply shows Nakaba's emphasis on the elemental equilibrium between Darkness and Light just like Yin and Yang.
Yeah sure! The superiority of class is an established fact in the NnT verse. Mera and the rest of the 10 Commandments had feared Assault Mode Meliodas (PoD Mode) and the AAs did actually revere Elisabeth's Ark. So it makes sense to say there is a hierarchy in there. The same applies to the Life Spirits too, or else Percy wouldn't be anything special among them. By the same token, the Life energy of "their great one" must be superior to the rest of LSs.
At least until he can use Ark on the AAs' level (Omega Ark and stuff), and being the SD's direct descendant and MAIN character, he should definitely surpass the AAs by a huge margin in the future.
It's not theoretical at all. The fact that the whole theme of the current story was based on the notion of "The Balance between Darkness and Light". After this balance was broken, the Age of Chaos started. Moreover, it's not accurate on your part to deny Tristan being the perfect fusion of Darkness & Light when we've seen recently how Nakaba based "the Nephilim power" on the phenomenon of Annihilation, which reflects one of the most perfect and balanced phenomena in our universe (the collision of matter & antimatter)!!
It was not mentioned that you need to put two equal forces of darkness and light to use annihilation and even if Tristan did he was holding back his demonic powers at the time so that he would not lash out and harm the others.
Clans have their strengths and weaknesses. You used Fairies(magic oriented) and Giants(physical strength oriented) as examples, but Goddesses and Demons are nothing like that. I don't consider offensive techniques superior at all, I said many times that Ark is much better.
Goddesses and Demons aren't inherently superior in magic or strength. They are similar to Humans, it depends heavily on their own, natural talents as persons, unrelated to their racial traits. Ludo and Mael are clearly physically superior to Sariel and Tarmiel. Elizabeth is clearly more magic oriented while Nanashi is a physical fighter. Same for Demons, Meliodas is a physical fighter first, same for Galan, Zeldris, Derrierie. But there are other Demons like Monspiet, Mera, Gowther.
The difference between the goddesses and demons are in what their racial powers focus on. The goddesses have a versatile set of abilities with a big emphasis on support while the demons are almost exclusively built around offense, in particular with their demon mark buff which the goddesses lack an equivalent of. When you compare Tristan's unbuffed goddess side to his mark-buffed demon side in terms of offensive power you're getting an unfair comparison similar to if you compared a fairy and a giant in terms of physical feats. If you want a fair comparison you can just look at how Tristan's two magics interact when he's using both as basic elemental projectiles at the same time. They were equal. When I say you consider offensive techniques as superior I'm not referring to Ark vs PoD but just offense and defense period. Tristan being able to do more damage with his demon side is the argument you use to prove that this side is stronger, but you wouldn't use the same logic to argue that him being able to heal more effectively with his goddess side proves that is is stronger.
You say that goddesses and demons don't have the same distinct strengths and weaknesses and the fairies and giants but there's a clear difference in whether the two clans favor magic or physical strength. You're skewing your perception by focusing on the exceptions even though they exist for every clan. Fairies are physically weak but Dahlia is a brawler. Giants are physically strong but Dubs has little to no physical ability. The goddesses we've either seen in action or who have had their stats revealed skew heavily towards magic, think Elizabeth, Sariel, Tarmiel, Jenna and Zaneri. Nanashi is the only dedicated physical fighter in the clan, with Ludociel and Mael combining both magic and melee in their fighting styles, though their strongest attacks were purely magical. The demons in contrast only have a couple of dedicated magical fighters, those being Melascula, Monspeet and Gowther. Even Chandler who was the clan's mage was a physical powerhouse. The preferences of the two clans can be seen in their leaders as well. The DK is primarily a physical fighter while the SD is pure magic. That's why their abilities are what they are by the way. A magical fighter like the SD is heavily disadvantaged against The Ruler while the SD's intangibility to physical attacks is a problem for the DK. The demons and the goddesses are opposites in more ways than just their elements.
I don't see how Ark is a shield while PoD is a sword though? Ark can be used for offensive, defensive, healing purposes and is naturally superior to PoD. Same for PoD but the healing is far inferior and PoD can also increase negative feelings.
I brought Ludociel for that very reason. He is like what Tristan was trying to become. He is extremely powerful, relies on both CQC and magic but he also uses White Magic in a way Tristan can't. We saw him use Invigorate. Tristan can't even use such a technique so far so even if you see Ark as a "shield" he is lacking.
Tristan wanted to become strong enough to defeat anyone without relying on his PoD. But so far, it seems that his Goddess powers, while strong aren't enough to defeat the foes he has been against.
Tristan obviously will learn to use them both at the same time but nothing indicates that his Goddess powers are comparable to his Demon powers. As for Ark and PoD cancelling each other out(can't remember when it happened), it's simply a matter of output. Tristan's Goddess powers are in no way weak, his Falling Stars was noted to be extremely powerful and he destroyed Mera's cocoon with a single slash, but his power output with PoD is far stronger.
Ark is a shield because it focuses on defensive and supplementary techniques, not because it doesn't have any offensive uses. Likewise PoD can be used to repair the user's body, which doesn't actually heal the damage according to Meliodas, but the ability is mostly offensive so it acts as more of a sword. This distinction is meaningful because it makes Tristan's two sides balanced. If his goddess side was equal in offensive power to his demon side and also had way more versatility on top of that then his goddess side would be objectively superior and there wouldn't be any reason to ever use his demon side outside of the rare scenario where an enemy is resistant to Ark. If the demon side is about offense and the goddess side is about defense then both will always have a purpose and Tristan can also take advantage of both at the same time, which is what the whole nephilim thing is about.
You bring up Tristan being lacking in terms of his goddess side but the same is also true for his demon side, the two problems just manifest in different ways and in a manner that fits my analysis. Goddess magic is distinguished by its versatility so Tristan's flaw in that area manifests as an inability to perform complex techniques. Demon magic is distinguished by its raw offensive power so Tristan's flaw in that area manifests as an inability to control that power. Both sides of his abilities are still incomplete and this is by design. Tristan dislikes his demon side because he can't control it, but he can't simply ignore it and focus purely on his goddess side because that side has its own problems too. If he managed to solve the issue with his goddess side first then he wouldn't need to develop his demon side any further. This is why mastery and acceptance of his demon side has to happen before he can master his goddess side. Tristan couldn't become like Ludociel because that would have permanently locked him out of the other half of his abilities. Tristan's powers and his problems with them are the way they are for a reason.
You claim that nothing indicates that Tristan's goddess powers are comparable to his demon powers but we've already seen an example of this directly in the form of the Annihilation technique. When Tristan forms his two elements into basic projectiles the two cancel each other out. This wasn't a matter of Tristan carefully adjusting the outputs to be equal. Tristan himself didn't even know what he was doing and was merely following Gawain's instructions since she's the one who came up with the technique. The fact that Tristan was able to achieve the desired effect on the fly with zero practice is evidence that it didn't require anything beyond forming basic elemental projectiles. We know he's unable to use many goddess techniques and also unable to control his demon side so I don't buy the idea that he nailed the exact balance on his first try because he's just that skilled. The reason you believe that Tristan's demon side is superior is because you compare the two based on their offensive output even though that's the area his demon side is focused on over everything else, as I've explained before. With how massive of a boost Meliodas got from his demon mark it's no surprise that Tristan's demon mark would allow his demon side to do way more damage than his goddess side that lacks such a buff, but that's an apples to oranges comparison. Annihilation is the closest thing to an apples to apples comparison we've seen so far and it paints a very different picture.
As I said above, if both PoD and Ark are used at the exact same level of power, Ark will overpower PoD, because PoD is weak to Ark. I compared a few times here to Popp's Medoroa from Dragon Quest(if you haven't read or watched the series, skimming trhough Episode 46 of the remake should be enough to understand what I mean).
The elemental weakness between light and dark magic goes both ways. They are supposed to mirror one another so it wouldn't make sense for one to just be outright superior for some reason. This is also consistent with everything else we've been told. Chaos-Melascula's nephilim monster was said to be a fusion of a demon and a goddess and therefore resistant to both dark and light magic. This establishes that demons and goddesses are resistant to their own element, but also that goddesses are not resistant to darkness because otherwise the addition of the demon side would have been redundant. The SD explained in the movie that she is resistant to the Sacred Tree's magic because it is similar to her own. If powers that are similar to one's own are easy to resist then it logically follows that powers that are very different would be the most difficult to resist. That's why Ark is very effective on demons since light magic is the opposite of dark magic, but this also works the same way the other way around. The aforementioned SD tanked everything Ban, King, Diane and Gowther could throw at her without any trouble but ultimately died to Meliodas and Zeldris incinerating her with Hellblaze since demon power was her weakness. There are also some other examples of this relationship, like Sariel in chapter 275 remarking that the power of darkness counters the power of goddesses, and the way Estarossa used his darkness to stop Tarmiel's Grace from activating a little bit earlier. In a nutshell, PoD is weak to Ark but Ark is also weak to PoD. Neither one is inherently superior.
I am sure I understood your words completely, but my understanding of them does not mean agreeing with them, especially when they lack logic and contradict the facts.
It's amazing how you talk about the G-Clan as if they were just glass cannons with powerful magic and hax when we saw how Tarmiel was physically stronger than anyone in the Ten Commandments except maybe Zeldris and Mael and Ludociel who had physical strength that rivaled if not even surpassed the likes of Zeldris (the 3/4 strongest demon in 7ds).
And you can't use diversity to justify how Tristan with G powers can't do anything against opponents he could easily defeat if he used his demonic powers.
Tristan G-side can't beat even base Schwartz when his demon mode beat Melagalande easily
Just because you're a magical type fighter doesn't mean you can't win or put up a decent fight
King was a magical fighter but he didn't lose all his fights or be weaker than any stronger opponent who better than him physicaly.
And using the "annihilation" technique to claim that his powers are equal is just deception.
It was not mentioned that you need to put two equal forces of darkness and light to use annihilation and even if Tristan did he was holding back his demonic powers at the time so that he would not lash out and harm the others.
The reason I said you misunderstood something is because your counterarguments have very little to do with my argument. For example, you described my position as being the equivalent of saying that "Nerobasta isn't weaker than Derieri, it's just a matter of power diversity" but that's not what I'm actually saying. I'm talking about the way the abilities of the demons and goddesses, as well as the other clans for that matter, have different areas of focus so depending on which area you examine you can get a very different result. A goddess being able to out-heal a demon is not proof of the goddess being stronger overall and a giant being able to punch harder than a fairy is not proof of the giant being stronger overall. Note that these are general traits, it's not like every member of clan x is superior to every member of clan y or that every member of clan z is perfectly equal. That's not what this is about. Similarly you say that I "talk about goddesses being just glass cannons" but that's not a claim I've ever made. If anything my position is the opposite since I've described the goddesses as being more defense-oriented, i.e. more of a shield than a sword. And no, being defense-oriented is not the same as only having defense. As seen with the above examples, you're arguing against claims I never made and misrepresenting my positions, hence why I assumed you misunderstood me. You seemed to take that as an insult but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, because it's much better to make an innocent mistake than to intentionally twist someone else's words. I don't need you to agree with me but I would like you to be fair and honest with me.
As for the rest of your post, much of the things you mention are already covered in my response to Demonspeed above. Tristan's demon mode has way more offensive power than his goddess mode because that's the thing his demon mode is focused on. This is no different from a hypothetical fairy/giant hybrid akin to Tristan being able to punch harder in his giant mode. The demon mark in particular gives Tristan a huge boost just like what happened with his father. It's no surprise that activating the mark would allow him to overwhelming enemies his goddess powers can't defeat, just like how it wouldn't be surprising for Tristan's goddess powers to heal injuries his demon powers can't. I find it strange that you consider examining the Annihilation technique to be deception when it's easily the most direct comparison of his powers we've seen so far. We're not comparing healing or physical strength or any other area where we know one side has an advantage over the other, it's just pure magical energy produced when Tristan was in his hybrid mode with one eye in goddess mode and the other one in demon mode. It's like comparing punching strength between a person's right arm and left arm. How is that not more accurate than measuring them in different situations doing different things? As for the way Annihilation works, Gawain says that it's the outcome of light and dark cancelling each other out and the name is taking from the physical phenomenon that involves opposite but equal particles cancelling each other out to release energy in much as same way as the "particles" Tristan formed out of light and darkness. It's pretty obvious what's going on there. You're wrong about Tristan holding back his demon powers so that he wouldn't lash out. The thing that causes Tristan to lose control is exceeding his time limit, which was established in the Liones arc and directly referenced before using Annihilation for the first time:
Tristan doesn't say anything about having to hold back his demon powers, just that he only has a few seconds left before he'll go crazy. If losing control was a matter of power output then it would be easy for him to control his demon mode just by limiting its power output. That way he could stay in that mode for extended periods of time instead of only doing it in short bursts.
The difference between the goddesses and demons are in what their racial powers focus on. The goddesses have a versatile set of abilities with a big emphasis on support while the demons are almost exclusively built around offense, in particular with their demon mark buff which the goddesses lack an equivalent of. When you compare Tristan's unbuffed goddess side to his mark-buffed demon side in terms of offensive power you're getting an unfair comparison similar to if you compared a fairy and a giant in terms of physical feats. If you want a fair comparison you can just look at how Tristan's two magics interact when he's using both as basic elemental projectiles at the same time. They were equal. When I say you consider offensive techniques as superior I'm not referring to Ark vs PoD but just offense and defense period. Tristan being able to do more damage with his demon side is the argument you use to prove that this side is stronger, but you wouldn't use the same logic to argue that him being able to heal more effectively with his goddess side proves that is is stronger.
You say that goddesses and demons don't have the same distinct strengths and weaknesses and the fairies and giants but there's a clear difference in whether the two clans favor magic or physical strength. You're skewing your perception by focusing on the exceptions even though they exist for every clan. Fairies are physically weak but Dahlia is a brawler. Giants are physically strong but Dubs has little to no physical ability. The goddesses we've either seen in action or who have had their stats revealed skew heavily towards magic, think Elizabeth, Sariel, Tarmiel, Jenna and Zaneri. Nanashi is the only dedicated physical fighter in the clan, with Ludociel and Mael combining both magic and melee in their fighting styles, though their strongest attacks were purely magical. The demons in contrast only have a couple of dedicated magical fighters, those being Melascula, Monspeet and Gowther. Even Chandler who was the clan's mage was a physical powerhouse. The preferences of the two clans can be seen in their leaders as well. The DK is primarily a physical fighter while the SD is pure magic. That's why their abilities are what they are by the way. A magical fighter like the SD is heavily disadvantaged against The Ruler while the SD's intangibility to physical attacks is a problem for the DK. The demons and the goddesses are opposites in more ways than just their elements.
The problem with everything you said is that you ignore many feates and narrative and base your argument on a skill you don't even know the full principle of.
Tristan with his G powers was unable to defeat even base Schwartz
His Ark, his light Magic couldn't even affect base Schwartz, do you even know what that means?
While his demon mode was able to defeat Chaos Melagaland
I don't really don't see how you can think they are equal unless you're going to ignore all the anti feats of Tristan G powers and Tristan demon mode's Feats and just stick to your headcanon about annihilation.
And your fairies and giants exp have a very big flaw
King is a magical fighter but very physically weak while Diane is a string physical fighter but that doesn't mean that King will lose to Diane or won't be able to fight as good as her or even better
While imagine if Demon mode Tristan vs. G mode Tristan fought and I challenge you to tell me that the fight wouldn't end with Demon mode Tristan winning very easily
So how can you think they be equal?
Even Tristan during his fights resorts to the demonic power as an upgrade and stronger mode when his G powers fail.
I think you kind of forgot what happened in the chapter
Gawain asked Tristan to use the same demonic mode he used in Liones to defeat the Testament beast but Tristan refused because according to him he could only control it for a few seconds before it rampages and kills his comrades
The Démon mode is what Tristan can only control for a few seconds and he refused to use it, not his demons mode overall
Then when Gawain discovers the principle of annihilation she asks Tristan to use a few dark attacks without resorting to his full demonic mode (which he can only use for a few seconds before rampaging)
And i think it's clear that there's a difference between the demon mode Tristan used in the Liones arc (with the mark and rampage) and the demon power boost Tristan used against IO, Schwartz, and the Testament beast (no demon mark and just an eye glowing with the power of darkness).
So yeah Tristan didn't use all his demonic power because his full demon power is his demon mode (which he can only control for a few seconds)
But against Testament beast he only used a slight boost of demonic power that he can control
Well, as I only saw this topic today, I'll tell you guys what I'm sure of about each one.
HAZY MOON= lunar energy manipulation(and it's probably more of a kind of grace than an innate one)
Why? Because the moon has magical energy too, and it is the same type that resides in the magic lake with the same properties.
NOVA= the magic that can merge 2 magics/elements or magical energies into a new unique energy or power/element
Hazy Moon being like this wouldn't explain all the things he can do though. Lancelot doesn't seem affected by the time of the day too.
As for Nova. I think it's kinda like this but we have already seen Mages combine elements.
Still, looking at the definition of a nova, there is always a white dwarf paired with a bigger star. The white dwarf absorbs energy from the bigger star and releases even more energy, but without self-destructing.
Tristan can use Light and Darkness and is PoD is much stronger than his Ark powers. It's kinda similar and these two powers are polar opposite.
Of course he can improve his output with time and he has shown Annihilation against the Testament Beast but I am thinking that he might be able to use PoD to fuel his Ark and vice-versa. Also, combine them for another "element"(Chaos? Nuclear? Star? Annihilation) but without triggering destruction as you said.
I tend to see it like a powder keg situation these days? You can a whole barrel full of TNT but you don't need an equal amount of fire to create an insane combustion. It just requires a single, little spark.
And I guess that is how Tristan is going to use his goddess powers in combat for the most part once he learns to merge them properly (or already has, anyway.). For enemies specifically weak to goddess magic, what he already has is plenty enough. His healing is also powerful and in most cases absolutely sufficient. For anything else that is Nova-related he doesn't need them to be on the same level as his darkness powers anyway. He just requires them as a detonator or vice-versa.
The thing is, we still cannot infer what "Nova" is or how it works just from its healing aspect (which is most likely different from Percy's life-based mechanism). We can't even say for sure if that's Ark or an enhanced form of it just because there are sparkles over there. It can be a power similar to the Flash Grace, since it is light-base or could it be the same grace with a different name like the Sun / Dawn?
Flash: In astronomy, a flash can refer to a sudden burst of light or energy, such as a solar flare or the brief, intense light from a meteor entering the atmosphere.
Nova: A nova is a star that suddenly increases in brightness due to a thermonuclear explosion on its surface, often visible as a "new" star in the sky.
Link: Both terms describe sudden, brilliant events in the cosmos involving light or energy bursts, with a flash being a short-lived emission and a nova a longer-lasting stellar event.
P.S: the next fight between Gawain and Tristan would be the perfect setting to test the validity of this theory.
Yes, it looks like it. But I am only cautiously optimistic and not entirely convinced yet. Even on my own theory. We saw one example of it but I assume that it has different applications and they also might not all be beam-shaped so I'll hold out on it since I expect Nova to be a bit more complex than what we saw. But it is imo a good start and right within my expectations.
What surprised me most was that the healing beam had actual force behind it. The way it shot upward and out of Tristan it ingulved both him and Isolde in its healing aura but the force of it was so strong that it blew chunks of dust and caused enough wind to have the audience shield itself.
I believe as far as healing magic goes - even that of goddesses - this is a first. The force of it must be tremendous. And I think if Tristan alters the composition of that pillar or beam even slightly he can probably weaponize it. I wonder if it is even possible to "overheal" and by that I mean pump a target so full of vitality that they literally explode from it. Like when you overdose on steroids with such a tremendous dosage that it instantly swells your heart muscle and it explodes, for lack of a better analogy.
At any rate it is a curious power. And unless the tournament is interrupted now because of Percival's latest stunt then I am afraid Gawain might lose. Which I am fine with, to be honest, considering she had tough opponents while Tantris fought no-one worth mentioning.
Seeing how the power of Stars can warp Time and Space and distort Timelines in Origin, I think there's a high chance that Nova could be a Time-based magic.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
By the way, I don't think Nova is Ark-based as it may seem. The fact is, we didn't have the chance to verify whether the Triskelion was activated in Tristan's eyes when he used that power or not. But, here is the catch: Tristan did actually use a similar power (I believe it is NOVA itself) in the game, and he didn't seem to use his Goddess mode during that:
The Bottom line is: Heal Nova, This enchantment attack, and the Book of Stars' activation all are portrayed in the same consistent pattern; i.e. a stream of light with stars going upwards. Here is that starry light pillar that caused the timeline distortion in the Origin game:
My theory is that Nova is a Time-based power. For instance, the mechanism by which "Heal Nova" works isn't through boosting / supplying Life force to the target like Percival, but by reversing the Time of the injury (Similar to how Julius Nova-Chrono heals in Black Clover).
Seeing how the power of Stars can warp Time and Space and distort Timelines in Origin, I think there's a high chance that Nova could be a Time-based magic.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
By the way, I don't think Nova is Ark-based as it may seem. The fact is, we didn't have the chance to verify whether the Triskelion was activated in Tristan's eyes when he used that power or not. But, here is the catch: Tristan did actually use a similar power (I believe it is NOVA itself) in the game, and he didn't seem to use his Goddess mode during that:
The Bottom line is: Heal Nova, This enchantment attack, and the Book of Stars' activation all are portrayed in the same consistent pattern; i.e. a stream of light with stars going upwards. Here is that starry light pillar that caused the timeline distortion in the Origin game:
My theory is that Nova is a Time-based power. For instance, the mechanism by which "Heal Nova" works isn't through boosting / supplying Life force to the target like Percival, but by reversing the Time of the injury (Similar to how Julius Nova-Chrono heals in Black Clover).
Not a huge fan of time-based powers in fiction because few authors, even good ones, are capable of writing it well because it is so broken by definition. And if they don't write it as something broken, they almost always get tangled up in the stupidity of why it is limited to an incredibly small scale. Even small scale time-based powers heavily affect space, matter and cause issues with causality and I have just grown to dislike it because I bet you Nakaba can't pull this off well.
But, sure. It's as likely as any other option that Nova is time based. I was going to check if there was reversed damage on Isolde's clothes (because, as you say, it would not be mending magic, it would be undoing an events during a specific point in linear time and thus also revert matter to a state before said moment in time). But of course Nakaba drew the impalement just so that the sword hit straight through the seams of Isolde's top and we don't really get a clear picture of her back in any panels so far so we can't even check if Tristan repaired hair clothes.
I'll admit that if Nakaba gives him these powers then it at least currently it would work because it could nicely mirror Beltreipe, who seems to hold domination over space with his sword and Tristan does have interested in facing Beltreipe in battle currently. He just doesn't know that yet. Gawain does, too, and she also doesn't realize who Beltreipe is to her just yet and it is possible that Gawain learns time magic from Merlin later on as well, if she has not already learned it (it is a bit iffy, she does have that super slow spell and all).
Nova shouldn't be Ark based but he can use it with Ark. He has been fighting mostly using Ark powers but he should be able to apply it to his Dark powers as well.
I thought Hazy Moon would be explained in the flashback but we didn't get anything. I read Chiguhagu and a Hazy Moon style was mentioned in a few pages, but never explained.
Still hard to say what it does exactly but I think the fourth type of Magic is probably Stealth type?(Kinda funny in a way if it's the case because he was unable to fully hide his presence). Would fit the "hazy" in the name too. He does certain things that characters have been unable to perceive and there was the way he just caught Ironside's Spell with his sword.
At this point which Magic do you think will be explained first? Hazy Moon or Nova?
I thought Hazy Moon would be explained in the flashback but we didn't get anything. I read Chiguhagu and a Hazy Moon style was mentioned in a few pages, but never explained.
Still hard to say what it does exactly but I think the fourth type of Magic is probably Stealth type?(Kinda funny in a way if it's the case because he was unable to fully hide his presence). Would fit the "hazy" in the name too. He does certain things that characters have been unable to perceive and there was the way he just caught Ironside's Spell with his sword.
At this point which Magic do you think will be explained first? Hazy Moon or Nova?
Definitely Nova. I think the strength order is lance -> tristan -> gawain -> percival and just like their re-introduction after the timeskip, their power levels and co will be explored in reverse starting with perci and ending with Lance
Meliodas lost because he wasn't strong enough to win at that time.
Do you think the Ten Commandments would have stood a chance against a full powered Meliodas? He would have destroyed them all with all their abilities.
And Lancelot beat the Four Perils because he was much stronger than them? You, I, and everyone else knows this.
I don't even know why you're salty about this, they lost to the strongest.
Actually, you’re missing something here —
if Meliodas had been able to land his attack back then,
he would’ve completely wiped out the Ten Commandments,
and their reactions clearly showed it.
But he couldn’t strike because of Estarossa’s Commandment of Love, period.
So yes, I agree that Lancelot is probably stronger than each of the Perils individually,
but I really doubt he’s already stronger than all four combined,
especially if they fought with a smarter approach.
And honestly, that scene doesn’t prove anything about his actual power,
no matter how you try to spin it.
That’s exactly why I compared it to Meliodas’s Full Counter,
because Lancelot’s Eighteenth Moon works in a similar way.
If Meliodas had beaten the Commandments using that move,
would that automatically mean he was stronger than all of them?
Of course not.
Same goes here — the fact that Lancelot reflected their combined attack
doesn’t mean he’s stronger,
it just means he outplayed them with his technique.
And just to be clear —
I’m not saying Lancelot is equal to the Perils,
I’m just saying that this fight doesn’t prove his superiority.
That’s a fact, even if you keep trying to twist it to defend him.
You also said that the difference between Lancelot and the others
is that his attack actually landed, unlike theirs.
But what you ignore is that Percival and the others
barely had the chance to attack at all —
they were just getting overpowered by Chaos.
And when Lancelot hit back,
he didn’t even use his own magic —
he simply reflected their attack after absorbing it.
So no, that doesn’t prove he’s stronger,
just that he has a very powerful counter-type ability.
Again, I’m not denying that Lancelot might currently be above them,
but your arguments for it are too shallow.
That scene didn’t demonstrate his raw power —
it showed his control and magical intelligence, nothing more.
What you don’t seem to get is that there’s a fundamental difference between magic reserves and magical power.
Someone can possess an incredibly strong magic ability but lack the reserves needed to fully use it.
That’s exactly what happened with Lancelot before entering the Lake.
He had the most powerful magic of all (even if it was still latent), but he didn’t have enough magical reserves to unleash its full potential.
The Infinite Lake simply fixed that flaw — it granted him infinite reserves, allowing him to finally use the complete extent of his magic.
However, that doesn’t mean he had already reached the final form of his magic.
The Lake didn’t change his power — it simply allowed him to fully use the one he already had, even after it evolved later on.
And that evolution is obvious: two years later, no weapon can withstand his magic anymore, clearly showing a growth in its power.
If the Lake directly increased his magic level, then his weapon would have been destroyed right after he used the Shining Route technique.
But it didn’t — it endured that attack, and even one year later during his fight with Tristan, the weapon still held up.
That means it’s his magic itself that evolved, not the Lake.
In short:
• Magical power = the nature and raw strength of one’s magic.
• Magic reserves = the amount of energy available to use it.
Lancelot had the first one, but lacked the second — until the Lake balanced it out.
And when the Lady of the Lake said his magic was the strongest but still latent, that perfectly confirms it.
The Lake simply couldn’t predict what would happen when infinite reserves fused with such a powerful magic.
So no — chapter 211 doesn’t disprove this idea.
It actually reinforces it: the Lake lets Lancelot fully use a magic that’s still evolving on its own.
I honestly don’t get what you don’t get, man.
We’re not saying Lancelot isn’t the strongest right now — we’re just saying that the others have the potential to reach him.
Even in chapter 214, it’s obvious: Tristan’s goal is literally to reach Lancelot’s level.
If that level were truly unreachable, then why would he even aim for it?
It wouldn’t make any sense narratively to give a character an impossible goal.
Yeah, Lancelot is the strongest at the moment — no one’s denying that.
But in the future, maybe far down the line, the others could very well catch up to him.
Since when does being overpowered mean you can never be equaled?
Besides, his current power is compared to that of the Seven Deadly Sins, not the gods.
So he’s insanely strong, yes — but he’s not at divine level yet.
So why act like he’s completely untouchable?
No one’s saying they’re already on his level — we’re just saying that, given their potential, they have a real chance of reaching him someday.
And really, what’s so crazy about that idea?
One thing I disagree with is the idea of the magic absorption coming from Lancelot himself rather than the lake, mainly because the lake's incredible ability to absorb magic was highlighted back in NnT. Nanashi also echoed the water idea when he compared Lancelot's magic absorption to a river swallowing its tributaries. It would be a pretty massive coincidence if Lancelot already had an almost identical absorption ability as the lake whose power he ended up obtaining. I'd also note that he didn't absorb the lake without even touching it like with Nanashi's attack, he simply drank it through the mouth like any old liquid just like Jericho and everyone else at the lake. The thing that made Lancelot special wasn't the fact that he could absorb the water's energy since Jericho was also boosted by it, but rather the fact that he didn't lose his mind upon doing so.
For me, the connection between Lancelot’s magic and his absorption ability mainly comes from the fact that the Lady of the Lake herself described his magic as the most powerful of all.
If his magic truly stands above every other type, then it makes perfect sense that he’d develop an absorption trait — a superior magic that dominates and consumes others, much like how a river absorbs its tributaries.
That’s exactly why Nanashi’s symbolic vision fits so well — a river absorbing smaller streams perfectly mirrors Lancelot’s magic.
Each weaker power becomes a tributary, and Lancelot, whose magic is considered the strongest, acts as the main current that engulfs everything.
And if we stick to what we already know about the Lake — that it grants greater magical reserves, as seen with Jericho — then everything lines up.
In that case, the Lake simply granted Lancelot infinite reserves, allowing him to fully unleash the true potential of his magic.
Not a new power, but a version without limits.
And of course, since Lancelot absorbed the Lake entirely — unlike Jericho who merely drank from it — the outcome is bound to be different.
But this stays consistent if we assume the Lake affects magical capacity, not the magic type itself.
So yeah, I think it’s this fusion between the most powerful magic and infinite reserves that allows Lancelot to absorb other forms of energy.
It’s symbolic, it’s logical — and honestly, it fits perfectly with his character.
But well… we’ll see what Nakaba decides to confirm.
If the Lake directly increased his magic level, then his weapon would have been destroyed right after he used the Shining Route technique.
But it didn’t — it endured that attack, and even one year later during his fight with Tristan, the weapon still held up.
That means it’s his magic itself that evolved, not the Lake
I strongly disagree that the Lake Infinity only speaks of reserves; it definitely has a power level, which I fully believe is equivalent to or higher than the Demon King.
I strongly disagree that the Lake Infinity only speaks of reserves; it definitely has a power level, which I fully believe is equivalent to or higher than the Demon King.
Actually, the Lady of the Lake herself denies the idea that this Lake contains magic stronger than everything.
She emphasizes that Lancelot’s magic is the most powerful, and that the Lake mainly provides infinite reserves, not a power in itself comparable to the gods.
In other words, Lancelot’s raw magic already surpasses that of the Lake, which serves primarily as an endless reservoir allowing him to fully harness his power.
The Lady of the Lake clearly distinguishes between magical power and magical reserves, which disproves the notion that the Lake itself is stronger
Actually, the Lady of the Lake herself denies the idea that this Lake contains magic stronger than everything.
She emphasizes that Lancelot’s magic is the most powerful, and that the Lake mainly provides infinite reserves, not a power in itself comparable to the gods.
In other words, Lancelot’s raw magic already surpasses that of the Lake, which serves primarily as an endless reservoir allowing him to fully harness his power.
The Lady of the Lake clearly distinguishes between magical power and magical reserves, which disproves the notion that the Lake itself is stronger
Honestly, the Lady of the Lake herself considers Lancelot’s magic to already be overwhelmingly powerful, and she defines herself primarily by her infinite magical reserves.
So why claim that the Lake’s magic itself is superior, when its main feature is precisely this endless reservoir?
To me, this clearly shows that we shouldn’t overestimate the raw power of the Lake.
Of course, we can’t state it with absolute certainty, but everything points to Lancelot’s magic being the true source of strength, with the Lake mainly providing him with infinite reserves.
Otherwise, if the Lake truly had such immense power, why would the Lady of the Lake refer to the perfect union between her infinite reserves and Lancelot’s magic?
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but all the evidence we have tends to suggest the opposite.
Actually, you’re missing something here —
if Meliodas had been able to land his attack back then,
he would’ve completely wiped out the Ten Commandments,
and their reactions clearly showed it.
But he couldn’t strike because of Estarossa’s Commandment of Love, period.
So yes, I agree that Lancelot is probably stronger than each of the Perils individually,
but I really doubt he’s already stronger than all four combined,
especially if they fought with a smarter approach.
And honestly, that scene doesn’t prove anything about his actual power,
no matter how you try to spin it.
That’s exactly why I compared it to Meliodas’s Full Counter,
because Lancelot’s Eighteenth Moon works in a similar way.
If Meliodas had beaten the Commandments using that move,
would that automatically mean he was stronger than all of them?
Of course not.
Same goes here — the fact that Lancelot reflected their combined attack
doesn’t mean he’s stronger,
it just means he outplayed them with his technique.
And just to be clear —
I’m not saying Lancelot is equal to the Perils,
I’m just saying that this fight doesn’t prove his superiority.
That’s a fact, even if you keep trying to twist it to defend him.
You also said that the difference between Lancelot and the others
is that his attack actually landed, unlike theirs.
But what you ignore is that Percival and the others
barely had the chance to attack at all —
they were just getting overpowered by Chaos.
And when Lancelot hit back,
he didn’t even use his own magic —
he simply reflected their attack after absorbing it.
So no, that doesn’t prove he’s stronger,
just that he has a very powerful counter-type ability.
Again, I’m not denying that Lancelot might currently be above them,
but your arguments for it are too shallow.
That scene didn’t demonstrate his raw power —
it showed his control and magical intelligence, nothing more.
"What if Meliodas had been able to land his attack back then?"
But he couldn't because Estarossa was here and can block it.
And even if we exclude Estarossa, Zeldris had the ruler at the time, so the attack wouldn't have been do anything to him even if it had succeeded, and Meliodas, who was injured and his PL was only 56K, didn't stand a chance against Zeldris in that time.
Meliodas clearly lost because he was weaker.
As for Lancelot vs. the Four Perils, I don't think that's even up for debate.
Lancelot is light years stronger than all of them combined.
If the 4perils had a thousand chances to fight him, they would lose them all no diff.
What you don’t seem to get is that there’s a fundamental difference between magic reserves and magical power.
Someone can possess an incredibly strong magic ability but lack the reserves needed to fully use it.
That’s exactly what happened with Lancelot before entering the Lake.
He had the most powerful magic of all (even if it was still latent), but he didn’t have enough magical reserves to unleash its full potential.
The Infinite Lake simply fixed that flaw — it granted him infinite reserves, allowing him to finally use the complete extent of his magic.
However, that doesn’t mean he had already reached the final form of his magic.
The Lake didn’t change his power — it simply allowed him to fully use the one he already had, even after it evolved later on.
And that evolution is obvious: two years later, no weapon can withstand his magic anymore, clearly showing a growth in its power.
If the Lake directly increased his magic level, then his weapon would have been destroyed right after he used the Shining Route technique.
But it didn’t — it endured that attack, and even one year later during his fight with Tristan, the weapon still held up.
That means it’s his magic itself that evolved, not the Lake.
In short:
• Magical power = the nature and raw strength of one’s magic.
• Magic reserves = the amount of energy available to use it.
Lancelot had the first one, but lacked the second — until the Lake balanced it out.
And when the Lady of the Lake said his magic was the strongest but still latent, that perfectly confirms it.
The Lake simply couldn’t predict what would happen when infinite reserves fused with such a powerful magic.
So no — chapter 211 doesn’t disprove this idea.
It actually reinforces it: the Lake lets Lancelot fully use a magic that’s still evolving on its own.
Even before Lancelot have the infinite magic, he was able to absorb the lake along with all its infinite magic.
So Lancelot's capability to absorption were infinite from the start, which is why he didn't go mad from drinking the lake's water (magic) and was able to absorb its all (with all it infinite magic).
That's what I was talking about because it seems you've suddenly changed the subject.
I honestly don’t get what you don’t get, man.
We’re not saying Lancelot isn’t the strongest right now — we’re just saying that the others have the potential to reach him.
Even in chapter 214, it’s obvious: Tristan’s goal is literally to reach Lancelot’s level.
If that level were truly unreachable, then why would he even aim for it?
It wouldn’t make any sense narratively to give a character an impossible goal.
Yeah, Lancelot is the strongest at the moment — no one’s denying that.
But in the future, maybe far down the line, the others could very well catch up to him.
Since when does being overpowered mean you can never be equaled?
Besides, his current power is compared to that of the Seven Deadly Sins, not the gods.
So he’s insanely strong, yes — but he’s not at divine level yet.
So why act like he’s completely untouchable?
No one’s saying they’re already on his level — we’re just saying that, given their potential, they have a real chance of reaching him someday.
And really, what’s so crazy about that idea?
Tristan didnt said he wanted to be as strong as Lancelot.
He just said he wanted to fight like Lancelot, and clarifying that he meant being strong enough to protect those he loves and not cause others to worry about him.
And even if he said that, not everything the characters want happens.
Gawain wants to be the strongest.
Do you think she'll end up being the strongest?
Your problem with comparing the 4kota is that you're building a comparison from nothing.
You claim that others have the potential to be as powerful as Lancelot, but you haven't provided a single piece of evidence to support your claim.
If we're talking about Lancelot, he possesses:
- The greatest power
- Infinite magic
- The ability to absorb any type and amount of magic
- The ability to instantly master any martial art or skill simply by seeing it (even if he sees it in someone else's memories)
- One of the best physical stats in the verse, even at his base (and he can enhance it with his magic)
- An attack more powerful than Nemesis, who has the power to kill the Demon King and easily destroy Britannia.
And many other things...
What about the other?
Gawain? She possesses Dawn (which is either Sunshine or a modified version of it), and she's a good mage.
Percival? He's one of the hightest rank Life Spirits, but how powerful are Life Spirits really? The strongest Life Spirit we've seen so far is the Behemoth, and he's weaker than the Demon King.
Tristan? He's from a new race? I don't see how this proves anything about strength/potential.
The others haven't shown enough to be compared to him, so the comparison doesn't seem truly objective or logical.
Honestly, the Lady of the Lake herself considers Lancelot’s magic to already be overwhelmingly powerful, and she defines herself primarily by her infinite magical reserves.
So why claim that the Lake’s magic itself is superior, when its main feature is precisely this endless reservoir?
To me, this clearly shows that we shouldn’t overestimate the raw power of the Lake.
Of course, we can’t state it with absolute certainty, but everything points to Lancelot’s magic being the true source of strength, with the Lake mainly providing him with infinite reserves.
Otherwise, if the Lake truly had such immense power, why would the Lady of the Lake refer to the perfect union between her infinite reserves and Lancelot’s magic?
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but all the evidence we have tends to suggest the opposite.
