Fantasy Irene vs Gildarts

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Either way, Irene is being hard done by a bit here imo. When you have a Dragon vs a Dragon Slayer (Irene vs Wendy), the dragon is at least going to feel a bit of an effect from the magic the slayer uses because the magic is meant to kill them. Erza damaging Irene after the Sky Dragon's Wing Attack could be contributed to her striking the same spot Wendy did, i.e she was softened up for that attack.

Not really. The criticisms for Eileen's latest feats are perfectly reasonable. Slayer advantage shouldn't be a huge factor here and I'll explain why.

The gap between DF Wendy and Eileen should be a lot larger than the gap between TO Chelia and Dimaria. Now look at what TO Chelia did to Dimaria.

Spoiler: TO Chelia Hitting Dimaria

Compare this to what Wendy did in the recent chapter.

Spoiler: DF Wendy Hitting Eileen

As you can see, both had slayer advantages. But the reactions were the same despite Eileen being way stronger than Dimaria (and Wendy being way weaker than Chelia)... The only difference is that that Wendy used a spell and Chelia didn't, but she still used magic even if it wasn't a spell. The next page proves it.

Spoiler: Dimaria's God Soul being nullified by Chelia's Magic

Either way, I think we can agree that TO Chelia is stronger than DF Wendy, right? So going by this, Eileen is Dimaria's level in terms of durability... There are also plenty of other pages where Dimaria took DF Wendy's attacks with no problem. So how can Eileen be the strongest female Spriggan? Unless her attack power is high (which it wasn't shown to be in the most recent chapter), I think she was a little overhyped.

As for Erza, she used a causal attack and Eileen was still damaged by it. Even if Wendy softened it up for her, I don't think it should cause this much damage...

Spoiler: Eileen's Torso

Look at her stomach. It's a pretty significant wound if you ask me.

---

Irene downplay is real. Gild got injured by GS Historia and Bluenote lol. He ain't beating Irene one on one.

You can't be serious... You're telling me this injury (bottom-left panel)...

Spoiler: Gildarts' Scratch

Hinders him from winning against Eileen...?!

I would even argue that Gildarts was barely injured in this fight...

And when did Gildarts fight Bluenote? Pre-timeskip?

---

To be quite honest here, I don't think Eileen is being downplayed at all. I just think that some are in denial and not willing to admit that they overhyped a character who had no feats to begin with, which was my point all along. Yes, some users are exaggerating a little too much but their point is valid.

I made the same mistake many times. First with Neinhart, then with Jacob, and then Larcade...

 

[Demon Hunter]

honestly speaking, both Gildarts and Irene are overhyped so we should call this a tie.

we know how hype ends in FT. Spriggan 12 are Sabertooth 2.0.

heck, maybe even worse.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2016 ---

@natsulucy add tie option please.

 

[Seven777]

The only reason Wendy could hurt Eileen, but not Dimaria is because she used a named attack on Eileen, but just a nameless punch on Dimaria. Wendy doesnt even have a name for her punching attacks, in fact unless im mistaken that was the first time she has ever punched anyone
Sky Dragons Wing attack>>>nameless punch.

 

[Jko]

Not really. The criticisms for Eileen's latest feats are perfectly reasonable. Slayer advantage shouldn't be a huge factor here and I'll explain why.

The gap between DF Wendy and Eileen should be a lot larger than the gap between TO Chelia and Dimaria. Now look at what TO Chelia did to Dimaria.

Spoiler: TO Chelia Hitting Dimaria

Compare this to what Wendy did in the recent chapter.

Spoiler: DF Wendy Hitting Eileen

As you can see, both had slayer advantages. But the reactions were the same despite Eileen being way stronger than Dimaria (and Wendy being way weaker than Chelia)... The only difference is that that Wendy used a spell and Chelia didn't, but she still used magic even if it wasn't a spell. The next page proves it.

Spoiler: Dimaria's God Soul being nullified by Chelia's Magic

Either way, I think we can agree that TO Chelia is stronger than DF Wendy, right? So going by this, Eileen is Dimaria's level in terms of durability... There are also plenty of other pages where Dimaria took DF Wendy's attacks with no problem. So how can Eileen be the strongest female Spriggan? Unless her attack power is high (which it wasn't shown to be in the most recent chapter), I think she was a little overhyped.

As for Erza, she used a causal attack and Eileen was still damaged by it. Even if Wendy softened it up for her, I don't think it should cause this much damage...

Spoiler: Eileen's Torso

Look at her stomach. It's a pretty significant wound if you ask me.

---

You can't be serious... You're telling me this injury (bottom-left panel)...

Spoiler: Gildarts' Scratch

Hinders him from winning against Eileen...?!

I would even argue that Gildarts was barely injured in this fight...

And when did Gildarts fight Bluenote? Pre-timeskip?

---

To be quite honest here, I don't think Eileen is being downplayed at all. I just think that some are in denial and not willing to admit that they overhyped a character who had no feats to begin with, which was my point all along. Yes, some users are exaggerating a little too much but their point is valid.

I made the same mistake many times. First with Neinhart, then with Jacob, and then Larcade...

Wendy back in GMG hurt Zirconis with DS lol. Hurting someone doesn't mean you can beat them. Natsu got hurt by fodder but you don't see people insta downplay his durability lol. Hurting someone means jack just look at Natsu vs the Twins. He wasn't even tired after that fight. Hurting is easy, putting down is way harder.

Yeah look after FL he's beat up. She enchanted a million fodder and push back Acno. She gained Acno's recognition while Gildarts was quick oneshot Acno didn't even bother remembering. Irene is above Gild by a lot. He's getting smashed badly.

 

[Zelefomavis]

honestly speaking, both Gildarts and Irene are overhyped so we should call this a tie.

we know how hype ends in FT. Spriggan 12 are Sabertooth 2.0.

heck, maybe even worse.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2016 ---

@natsulucy add tie option please.

Imo Irene was not overhyped, it was pretty impressive when she enchanted all those soldiers and 5 were able to take erza on. She was not even exhausted after it

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

The only reason Wendy could hurt Eileen, but not Dimaria is because she used a named attack on Eileen, but just a nameless punch on Dimaria. Wendy doesnt even have a name for her punching attacks, in fact unless im mistaken that was the first time she has ever punched anyone
Sky Dragons Wing attack>>>nameless punch.

DF Wendy did use a named attack though.

Spoiler: DF Wendy's Sky Dragon's Claw

And I don't think Sky Dragon's Wing Attack is that much stronger than Sky Dragon's Claw (if it even is). Anyways, I didn't include this page because I know many people will argue that Wendy didn't have slayer advantage against Dimaria but she did against Eileen. And I already provided an example with Chelia to show that slayer advantage shouldn't really be a factor. I don't really see how anyone can defend Eileen here. Last chapter was very disappointing.

 

[**Silver**]

Guildarts wins this medium-difficulty

Historia God Serena----> DF Wendy

 

[Seven777]

DF Wendy did use a named attack though.

Spoiler: DF Wendy's Sky Dragon's Claw

And I don't think Sky Dragon's Wing Attack is that much stronger than Sky Dragon's Claw (if it even is). Anyways, I didn't include this page because I know many people will argue that Wendy didn't have slayer advantage against Dimaria but she did against Eileen. And I already provided an example with Chelia to show that slayer advantage shouldn't really be a factor. I don't really see how anyone can defend Eileen here. Last chapter was very disappointing.

Difference is Dimaria blocked Sky Dragons Claw, Eileen got hit by Sky Dragons Wing attack.
Blocking>>>Tanking, which is prob why Dimaria bothered to block SD Claw but not the nameless follow up punch.

If Wendy was the first one to attack instead of Erza, Eileen would have blocked Sky Dragons Wing attack just as easily as she blocked Erza's attacks.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Wendy back in GMG hurt Zirconis with DS lol. Hurting someone doesn't mean you can beat them. Natsu got hurt by fodder but you don't see people insta downplay his durability lol. Hurting someone means jack just look at Natsu vs the Twins. He wasn't even tired after that fight. Hurting is easy, putting down is way harder.

Yeah look after FL he's beat up. She enchanted a million fodder and push back Acno. She gained Acno's recognition while Gildarts was quick oneshot Acno didn't even bother remembering. Irene is above Gild by a lot. He's getting smashed badly.

Yeah, and I never said Wendy can defeat Eileen. I actually agree with you on that and I've said it many times in the past myself. My point here is that Wendy shouldn't even be able to damage Eileen especially since her attacks never damaged someone like Dimaria.

EIleen enchanting fodders doesn't really hold much value. She may be a good support mage, but she can't do anything herself. Think of her like Neinhart. He can create Historias, but he isn't combat-oriented. As for Acnologia, I've said this before and I'll say it again. He wasn't trying against Eileen and she didn't perform any notable feats in that fight.

---

Difference is Dimaria blocked Sky Dragons Claw, Eileen got hit by Sky Dragons Wing attack.
Blocking>>>Tanking, which is prob why Dimaria bothered to block SD Claw but not the nameless follow up punch.

If Wendy was the first one to attack instead of Erza, Eileen would have blocked Sky Dragons Wing attack just as easily as she blocked Erza's attacks.

Fair enough. But my point still stands. Eileen's durability should be way higher than Dimaria, given her hype. Even in attack power (which wasn't impressive either)...

Look at Dimaria's durability in this panel.

Spoiler: Dimaria Tanking Wendy's and Chelia's Attacks

This is Base Dimaria who has lower durability than even Chronos Form. As you can see, same reaction as Eileen. And the damage was pretty minimal. Sure, you can argue that DF Wendy is stronger than Base Wendy (which I agree), but by how much? In my opinion, the combined attack of both Wendy and Chelia is near DF Wendy's level.

Besides, August was able to fight multiple opponents at once. Why can't Eileen? She could've blocked Erza's attack with her staff while blocking Wendy with her leg (kick). But she didn't. This also adds to my argument that Eileen's hype was way too high to take at face value.

 

[Seven777]

Yeah, and I never said Wendy can defeat Eileen. I actually agree with you on that and I've said it many times in the past myself. My point here is that Wendy shouldn't even be able to damage Eileen especially since her attacks never damaged someone like Dimaria.

EIleen enchanting fodders doesn't really hold much value. She may be a good support mage, but she can't do anything herself. Think of her like Neinhart. He can create Historias, but he isn't combat-oriented. As for Acnologia, I've said this before and I'll say it again. He wasn't trying against Eileen and she didn't perform any notable feats in that fight.

---

Fair enough. But my point still stands. Eileen's durability should be way higher than Dimaria, given her hype. Even in attack power (which wasn't impressive either)...

Look at Dimaria's durability in this panel.

Spoiler: Dimaria Tanking Wendy's and Chelia's Attacks

This is Base Dimaria who has lower durability than even Chronos Form. As you can see, same reaction as Eileen. And the damage was pretty minimal. Sure, you can argue that DF Wendy is stronger than Base Wendy (which I agree), but by how much? In my opinion, the combined attack of both Wendy and Chelia is near DF Wendy's level. And you also have to consider the spell. This isn't some regular Sky Dragon's Claw.

Besides, August was able to fight multiple opponents at once. Why can't Eileen? She could've blocked Erza's attack with her staff while blocking Wendy with her leg (kick). But she didn't. This also adds to my argument that Eileen's hype was way too high to take it at face value.

I have DF Wendy at least twice as strong as normal Wendy. On top of that Dimaria blocked that attack, at least partially.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I have DF Wendy at least twice as strong as normal Wendy. On top of that Dimaria blocked that attack, at least partially.

And I have Chelia as strong as Base Wendy (or stronger). So the two of them together have to be at least twice as strong Base Wendy (in my opinion). But anyways, we won't agree, so I'll let you have the last word. I see your point though.

As for Dimaria, I don't think she even partially blocked that attack. She was actually left quite vulnerable. By the way, this happened when Ultear negated Age Seal, and Wendy + Chelia did a surprise attack on Dimaria. I'll post the page before to show it happening consecutively.

Spoiler: Wendy and Chelia Hitting Dimaria

I think the part where Dimaria held her hand up is just her regaining balance, blocking the debris coming at her, and recoiling from the hit. Besides, near the bottom-left panel, that mark on Dimaria clearly shows that the attacks connected.

 

[Seven777]

And I have Chelia as strong as Base Wendy (or stronger). So the two of them together have to be at least twice as strong Base Wendy (in my opinion). But anyways, we won't agree, so I'll let you have the last word. I see your point though.

As for Dimaria, I don't think she even partially blocked that attack. She was actually left quite vulnerable. By the way, this happened when Ultear negated Age Seal, and Wendy + Chelia did a surprise attack on Dimaria. I'll post the page before to show it happening consecutively.

Spoiler: Wendy and Chelia Hitting Dimaria

I think the part where Dimaria held her hand up is just her regaining balance, blocking the debris coming at her, and recoiling from the hit. Besides, near the bottom-left panel, that mark on Dimaria clearly shows that the attacks connected.

Thought that mark was from the DF Wendy kick at the start of the battle tbh

 

[Arjuna]

I have DF Wendy at least twice as strong as normal Wendy. On top of that Dimaria blocked that attack, at least partially.

DF increases your strength by atleast 3 times minimum.

 

[Seven777]

That's a bit much imo, Natsu said DF was double or maybe triple, I go somewhere in between, maybe 2.5×

 

[Arjuna]

That's a bit much imo, Natsu said DF was double or maybe triple, I go somewhere in between, maybe 2.5×

But that was exhausted Jellal's power.Real DF should be much above.If it was 2.5 x i doubt they would have been able to defeat opponents whom they had defeated in DF.

 

[Seven777]

But that was exhausted Jellal's power.Real DF should be much above.If it was 2.5 x i doubt they would have been able to defeat opponents whom they had defeated in DF.

Imo receiving someones MP to use DF makes it stronger than usual, not weaker. DF activated on its own is basically just your own MP fueling it and forifying your body.
However with the aid of someone else, you have their power as well as you own, fueling DF.

DF only really beat Jellal and Zero, doubling Natsu's power should be enough to do that imo.
I think people really underestimate what doubling a person strength can do, its not the same as having 2 wizards of equal power fighting at the same time, its twice the power concentrated into one body.
You will be twice as strong, so your enemies will be damaged twice as bad as before.
Twice as fast, so you'll be hitting twice as often, which means a lot since your attacks are twice as strong.
And twice as durable, so you'll be able to tank twice as many attacks, which means you'll also have the time to deal twice as many to your enemy over the course of the battle.
All in all you should be able to deal up to 8 times the damage you could have in base.

 

[Arjuna]

Imo receiving someones MP to use DF makes it stronger than usual, not weaker. DF activated on its own is basically just your own MP fueling it and forifying your body.
However with the aid of someone else, you have their power as well as you own, fueling DF.

DF only really beat Jellal and Zero, doubling Natsu's power should be enough to do that imo.
I think people really underestimate what doubling a person strength can do, its not the same as having 2 wizards of equal power fighting at the same time, its twice the power concentrated into one body.
You will be twice as strong, so your enemies will be damaged twice as bad as before.
Twice as fast, so you'll be hitting twice as often, which means a lot since your attacks are twice as strong.
And twice as durable, so you'll be able to tank twice as many attacks, which means you'll also have the time to deal twice as many to your enemy over the course of the battle.
All in all you should be able to deal up to 8 times the damage you could have in base.

I agree there.But still i will consider it 3x because according to Natsu, this state multiplies his strength by two or three times.There is the mention of 3.Unless it was 3 Hiro would not have said this.

 

[Nemispelled]

Spoiler: Chapter 521 Spoilers

I think the answer to this battle is pretty clear at this point..

I don't see Irene having any chance of winning this or beating Gildartz, for that matter. Unless she can match August in a fight, she won't have a chance at Gildartz. And since Irene was defeated by the likes of Erza and Wendy, the scale tips more in Gildartz's favor at the moment.

A single punch from Gildartz accidentally shattered Kardia Cathedral to pieces. I don't see any feats from Irene that can even come close in comparison..

I don't think I've ever seen August look that shocked or surprised before when Gildartz fell from the sky.

 

[Boomburst]

Spoiler: Chapter 521 Spoilers

I think the answer to this battle is pretty clear at this point..

I don't see Irene having any chance of winning this or beating Gildartz, for that matter. Unless she can match August in a fight, she won't have a chance at Gildartz. And since Irene was defeated by the likes of Erza and Wendy, the scale tips more in Gildartz's favor at the moment.

A single punch from Gildartz accidentally shattered Kardia Cathedral to pieces. I don't see any feats from Irene that can even come close in comparison..

Spoiler: Chapter 521 Spoilers

While I do think that Gildarts has a good chance of winning against Irene, I don't think it's wise to make a decision so soon. I mean, the fight's barely started yet. Gildarts may have landed one impressive punch (albeit blocked pretty easily by August), but that's all we've seen and his performance during these next few chapters will give us a much more solid understanding of what he's capable of.

Spoiler: Chapter 521 Spoilers

I don't think I've ever seen August look that shocked or surprised before when Gildartz fell from the sky.

Well I mean, to be fair, would you not be surprised as well if you were standing on a building and suddenly out of nowhere some guy falls from the sky out of thin air? XD

 

[Nemispelled]

Spoiler: Chapter 521 Spoilers

While I do think that Gildarts has a good chance of winning against Irene, I don't think it's wise to make a decision so soon. I mean, the fight's barely started yet. Gildarts may have landed one impressive punch (albeit blocked pretty easily by August), but that's all we've seen and his performance during these next few chapters will give us a much more solid understanding of what he's capable of.

Well I mean, to be fair, would you not be surprised as well if you were standing on a building and suddenly out of nowhere some guy falls from the sky out of thin air? XD

Spoiler: Chapter 521 Spoilers

That's true. It's always better to wait for the full fight before judging.

But I'm pretty confident about this just from Gildartz's feats compared to Irene's feats alone. In my opinion, Irene turned out to be a major disappointment. So even if Gildartz isn't actually as strong as he looks in the current chapter, I have no doubt that it would still be enough power to beat somebody who was beaten by Erza + Wendy.