Fantasy Jura vs Bluenote

grey matter

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Yes, but he more or less respects their standings in doing so.
Gildartz was always at the top and remained at the top, whether his powerlevel was 100 000 or suddenly raised to 150 000, it's basically "what a monster".
Wendy was a 12 year old who couldn't even throw a punch, she doesn't suddenly get to this level by training for a year.
Yes, he does, whether it makes sense or not. I brough up them jumping up tiers, when they shouldn't, to demonstrate it.

Wendy shouldn't reach that level, but she did. Wendy, in her DF at least, is definitely above x784 Laxus/Jellal. And that is fucking disgusting. She reached that level in 1-2 years. What. The. Fuck !! It's nothing more than absolute bullshit.
 

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Wendy shouldn't reach that level, but she did. Wendy, in her DF at least, is definitely above x784 Laxus/Jellal. And that is fucking disgusting. She reached that level in 1-2 years. What. The. Fuck !! It's nothing more than absolute bullshit.
No way, she got fodderized by Bluenote, and oneshotted by Kyria. Powerlevels didn't just get multiplied by 10 out of nowhere.
 

Sinister Spirit

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In x784, Oracion Seis arc, Jellal was heavily injured and low on MP (due to casting self destruction on himself), which was why Midnight rekt him. I consider Midnight's ability as a hax, it won't work on spells much stronger than himself. For eg, you wouldn't assume that Midnight can be immune to Acno's roar....an extreme case but proves the point.
I know Jellal would've been stronger than any Oracion Seis member if he hadn't been injured, but I still doubt he could single-handedly beat 4 members all by himself. In fact, even if you forget the Reflector's limits, when Midnight used his illusion on Jellal, he made him wide open for REAL attacks. He didn't even tell his comrades Zero wasn't real, he literally paused the fight while everyone could've attacked.

As for the Reflector's limits, sure, it wouldn't work on attacks as exaggerated as Achnologia's, but it does seem pretty powerful: It overpowered Byro's Nullification, so it's probably an even better "magic-nullifier" than it, and the Nullification was enough to resist Gildarts' Crush magic (so logically, even Gildarts can't break through Midnight's Reflector except with hand-to-hand combat). I may not remember much of Jellal's spells, but I'm pretty sure they're not as deadly as Gildarts' (sure, they have more range and zone-effect, but they still probably deal less damage).

But I can agree with your other explanations.
 
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grey matter

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I know Jellal would've been stronger than any Oracion Seis member if he hadn't been injured, but I still doubt he could single-handedly beat 4 members all by himself. In fact, even if you forget the Reflector's limits, when Midnight used his illusion on Jellal, he made him wide open for REAL attacks. He didn't even tell his comrades Zero wasn't real, he literally paused the fight while everyone could've attacked.

As for the Reflector's limits, sure, it wouldn't work on attacks as exaggerated as Achnologia's, but it does seem pretty powerful: It overpowered Byro's Nullification, so it's probably an even better "magic-nullifier" than it, and the Nullification was enough to resist Gildarts' Crush magic (so logically, even Gildarts can't break through Midnight's Reflector except with hand-to-hand combat). I may not remember much of Jellal's spells, but I'm pretty sure they're not as deadly as Gildarts' (sure, they have more range and zone-effect, but they still probably deal less damage).

But I can agree with your other explanations.
Why not? Cobra was strong enough to mid-high diff pre 2nd origins Erza, but we know how much of a powerup 2nd origin was (I mean, Max was above base Natsu before 2nd origin). Cobra is, at best, LFD Natsu level post 2nd origins. Midnight scales to a bit above Cobra. And Racer & Angel are weaker than Cobra.
Jellal is a bit above Jura, and it was said that even Mira and Erza combined couldn't take down Jura. Whether you believe that hype or not is upto you, but the hype for Jellal (scaling from Jura) is out there. If you don't want to consider Jura's hype (of being able to solo Erza and Mira), consider this: Laxus, who extreme diff'd Jura, low diff'd Tempesta......and Tempesta was able to stalemate or at least give high diff to LFD Natsu.

Maybe he can't let them know? He's creating a massive illusion, it would encompass everyone. If he tells them about the nightmare, Jellal would likely hear it and know about the illusion as well. And, even if other members knew it was an illusion, they're trapped in it as well. They wouldn't know where to attack, since they're also in the same nightmare Jellal was in.
But yes, Midnight himself could've attacked. I agree there

That is true. I guess Midnight could've reflected Grand Chariot. But I don't think he could've reflected the impact of a meteor on him, that's expecting too much. But, I suppose it is possible. We may never know because Mashima nerfed Midnight in that fight.
But you can accept that, without Midnight's reflector hax, Jellal would have no problem soloing OS, right? Hax creates complications in matchups lol. I mean, asking "why didn't Midnight use reflector" question can be applied to pretty much every villain fight in FT - all Spriggan fights are filled with these questions, as well as almost all main villain fights (Hades, Mard Geer, Laxus in FF arc, Jellal in TOH arc etc) .........short answer to this is: Mashima doesn't know how to make his good guys win, if bad guys use their ability properly.
 
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Sinister Spirit

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Why not? Cobra was strong enough to mid-high diff pre 2nd origins Erza, but we know how much of a powerup 2nd origin was (I mean, Max was above base Natsu before 2nd origin). Cobra is, at best, LFD Natsu level post 2nd origins. Midnight scales to a bit above Cobra. And Racer & Angel are weaker than Cobra.
Jellal is a bit above Jura, and it was said that even Mira and Erza combined couldn't take down Jura. Whether you believe that hype or not is upto you, but the hype for Jellal (scaling from Jura) is out there. If you don't want to consider Jura's hype (of being able to solo Erza and Mira), consider this: Laxus, who extreme diff'd Jura, low diff'd Tempesta......and Tempesta was able to stalemate or at least give high diff to LFD Natsu.
Indeed, I don't believe the Jura > Erza + Mira hype since Battle of Fairy Tail Natsu + Gajeel could beat Laxus hard-diff. Even though it was long ago, the power-scale was likely the same in GMG, or maybe Natsu + Gajeel gained in strength more quickly and would've won mid-diff against Laxus if they had a rematch. If this duo can beat Laxus (and thus Jura), I don't see why Erza + Mira can't.
I can believe Jellal is a tier above Laxus or Jura, but for me, that would still put Jellal ~ 4 members of Oracion Seis at best, especially if Midnight still has Darkness magic (I don't recall why he stopped using it, afterall Cobra never lost his Sound magic). In fact, seeing how Midnight learned EVERY spell of Zero, I'd put him above Zero since he can make wicked combos with his Reflector, so he's probably more than just a bit above Cobra.
 

grey matter

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Indeed, I don't believe the Jura > Erza + Mira hype since Battle of Fairy Tail Natsu + Gajeel could beat Laxus hard-diff. Even though it was long ago, the power-scale was likely the same in GMG, or maybe Natsu + Gajeel gained in strength more quickly and would've won mid-diff against Laxus if they had a rematch. If this duo can beat Laxus (and thus Jura), I don't see why Erza + Mira can't.
I can believe Jellal is a tier above Laxus or Jura, but for me, that would still put Jellal ~ 4 members of Oracion Seis at best, especially if Midnight still has Darkness magic (I don't recall why he stopped using it, afterall Cobra never lost his Sound magic). In fact, seeing how Midnight learned EVERY spell of Zero, I'd put him above Zero since he can make wicked combos with his Reflector, so he's probably more than just a bit above Cobra.
Laxus lost in FF arc because he wasted enormous amount of MP on Fairy Law, after which he was exhausted. He basically one shotted Natsu and Gajeel with a single roar (similar to Jellal one shotting Natsu with grand chariot in TOH). They couldn't even move after that for a while, and he spent the entire time gloating and casting FL instead of finishing them right there.
We saw later in Tenrou arc, the huge difference between team Natsu and Laxus. Laxus did far better against Hades alone, than entire team Natsu did combined. Just before Key of Starry arc, we saw rematch of Natsu vs Laxus, where Laxus one shotted him again.
Like I said before, even if you discount Jura hype, we saw that Laxus low diff'd Tempesta, who held his own against LFD Natsu. This basically proves that x791 Laxus could low-mid diff LFD Natsu. And Jellal and Jura scales to that.

Yeah, discounting Midnight, it's not really hard to see why Jellal could solo OS. If you take away his reflector, then Jellal can solo the entire OS as well. I agree that Jellal could've possibly lost if Midnight used his reflector well. Haxes make matchups very unpredictable in FT, especially when we don't know the limitations of the hax
 
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