Discussion Natsu Dragneel/E.N.D Thread

[Sakashi]

You missed some critical point my friend. All other Demons created by Zeref didnt have bodies, they were simply created from nothing but E.N.D's difference is his human body and it was Natsu. This difference made him strongest demon created by Zeref, Zeref himself told us that. We all read ever chapter of this manga since day 1 so we all know some details but not all of them. We are still dark about many things and i hope we are gonna see that parts. His power doesnt make him grow old or young, they never mention about something like that. Zeref created E.N.D and sealed his power on the book(I think because his body wasnt strong enough for his powers and that is why he let Igneel to train him so he can wield his true powers and Igneel is flame element as well, perfect match) and wait for him to get strong.

Ahh I see, Thank you my friend.

 

[kkck]

Did zeref say natsu was created from his brother's body? I don't remember that part. If natsu is an etherius then he shouldn't have a physical body at all.

 

[Holt]

Did zeref say natsu was created from his brother's body? I don't remember that part. If natsu is an etherius then he shouldn't have a physical body at all.

But Natsu is his brother? Not sure I get what you mean but Zeref preserved his brother's body to revive him. He eventually succeeded but I'm guessing that the soul is what became an Etherious. The body already existed since Natsu was actually his brother but when he was alive, he certainly wouldn't have been an Etherious

 

[MangerDan]

Did zeref say natsu was created from his brother's body? I don't remember that part. If natsu is an etherius then he shouldn't have a physical body at all.

Yes, he did I'll post the page later if I have time or remember.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Just a question ! does natsu would have an etherious form or not ?

 

[azat501]

Did zeref say natsu was created from his brother's body? I don't remember that part. If natsu is an etherius then he shouldn't have a physical body at all.

Yes, At 426th chapter named Memoirs he explained how he created Natsu. All the other Demons didnt have bodies execpt Natsu he said. He added i accomplished 2 of my goals at the same time, i bring back my brother and creted strongest Ethelious.It is clear that he saw his brother and lived with him but as FirenX said because of memory alteriation magic, he forgot all of that and simply remember his training days with Igneel but not before not after of that days.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

Just a question ! does natsu would have an etherious form or not ?

We dont know that yet, all we know that every ethelious has his second form which let them use their curse freely so why shouldnt also have his but that doesnt meant that he would loose his consciousness and go mad.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---

This whole theory is based mainly on chapter 465, when Zeref reveals everything to Natsu. So after Zeref revealed everything he threw the book of end and stabbed it with his magic. On the page he stabs the book you will notice Natsu immediantly in pain and he touches his chest around his heart area where the pain is. At the end of the chapterZ eref says his goodbye to Natsu in his own mind. A couple chapters later Natsu is half dead with a tumor.

So here is my theory.

What if Zeref stabbed the book to awaken END? If you think about it after the stab Happy bought back Natsu to FT literally half dead with a tumor that he never showed any signs of having before. What are the chances of this happening now of all times? Can't be just a coincidence that happened at this paticular moment can it? So I tried to find something to convince me that its's not a coincidence, so after re-reading the chapter again (465) one particular sentence from Zeref stood out to me which was when at the end he says goodbye to Natsu in his own mind. He says "You can't stop be anymore... Goodbye, Natsu (Awaken END)". Joking aside doesn't this goodbye sound like one of those forever goodbyes the type just before someone dies.

Also to support my theory think about the situation Zeref was in, Zeref previously revealed only Natsu and END can kill him so from his point of view if Natsu failed to kill him, isn't it time to awaken END. And I believe thats exactly what he did when he stabbed the book of end. Like i said at the start the book of end had a cross where it was stabbed, maybe he needed to stab there to awaked end, the cross looks like an "aim here" sign lol and thats exactly where zeref stabbed it.

Now I know END hasn't awoken yet, but for now lets just say END's "trigger" has been activated and will awaken really soon, which could be the real reason for Natsus current and sudden condition, the tumour could be some kind of side effect or Porlyusica could be wrong and he never had a tumor, END is probably taking over his body or something as we still don't know exactly what END is, it could a transformation for all we know. And Brandish interfering by minimizing could have slowed the proccess down but who knows, maybe the next time Natsu awakend it won't be him but rather END.

What do you think? Am I over thinking things or could this or something simikar to this be true.

EDIT: Btw there will be a big "told you so" in the near future if you all disagree with this theory but it turns out true

You might be right or wrong. We dont have any clue to go against it or go with it. He might simply stabbed the book to show Natsu that he is the book itself and his farewell means that that was the last time he is willing to die and never gonna go easy on anyone again or something like that we really dont know but cannot wait to see it. If he really wanted to awaken END he could simply open the book and here we go, END is back. That is the reason Igneel warned Natsu to dont open the book or dont destroy it. As we all learn from Natsu's encounter with Zeref, damaging book also means damaging Natsu so if you destroy it also destroys Natsu so i think he simply showed this to Natsu not try to awaken END but let's see what is gonna happen next

 

[Arjuna]

This whole theory is based mainly on chapter 465, when Zeref reveals everything to Natsu. So after Zeref revealed everything he threw the book of end and stabbed it with his magic. On the page he stabs the book you will notice Natsu immediantly in pain and he touches his chest around his heart area where the pain is. At the end of the chapterZ eref says his goodbye to Natsu in his own mind. A couple chapters later Natsu is half dead with a tumor.

So here is my theory.

What if Zeref stabbed the book to awaken END? If you think about it after the stab Happy bought back Natsu to FT literally half dead with a tumor that he never showed any signs of having before. What are the chances of this happening now of all times? Can't be just a coincidence that happened at this paticular moment can it? So I tried to find something to convince me that its's not a coincidence, so after re-reading the chapter again (465) one particular sentence from Zeref stood out to me which was when at the end he says goodbye to Natsu in his own mind. He says "You can't stop be anymore... Goodbye, Natsu (Awaken END)". Joking aside doesn't this goodbye sound like one of those forever goodbyes the type just before someone dies.

Also to support my theory think about the situation Zeref was in, Zeref previously revealed only Natsu and END can kill him so from his point of view if Natsu failed to kill him, isn't it time to awaken END. And I believe thats exactly what he did when he stabbed the book of end. Like i said at the start the book of end had a cross where it was stabbed, maybe he needed to stab there to awaked end, the cross looks like an "aim here" sign lol and thats exactly where zeref stabbed it.

Now I know END hasn't awoken yet, but for now lets just say END's "trigger" has been activated and will awaken really soon, which could be the real reason for Natsus current and sudden condition, the tumour could be some kind of side effect or Porlyusica could be wrong and he never had a tumor, END is probably taking over his body or something as we still don't know exactly what END is, it could a transformation for all we know. And Brandish interfering by minimizing could have slowed the proccess down but who knows, maybe the next time Natsu awakend it won't be him but rather END.

What do you think? Am I over thinking things or could this or something simikar to this be true.

EDIT: Btw there will be a big "told you so" in the near future if you all disagree with this theory but it turns out true

Zeref doesn't want to release END.That's Why He pinned His Hopes on Natsu killing Him.END was too hard for Him To Control.That's Why He Accepted Igneel's Proposal.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

You missed some critical point my friend. All other Demons created by Zeref didnt have bodies, they were simply created from nothing but E.N.D's difference is his human body and it was Natsu. This difference made him strongest demon created by Zeref, Zeref himself told us that. We all read ever chapter of this manga since day 1 so we all know some details but not all of them. We are still dark about many things and i hope we are gonna see that parts. His power doesnt make him grow old or young, they never mention about something like that. Zeref created E.N.D and sealed his power on the book(I think because his body wasnt strong enough for his powers and that is why he let Igneel to train him so he can wield his true powers and Igneel is flame element as well, perfect match) and wait for him to get strong.

He might have Grown up.I Will Tell You Why?Grandine wished That Wendy and Natsu have Good Relations This Time.How Can a Little Child have Bad Relations.May Be Wendy suffered from Law of Retrogresaion and END may have been Too.

 

[azat501]

Zeref doesn't want to release END.That's Why He pinned His Hopes on Natsu killing Him.END was too hard for Him To Control.That's Why He Accepted Igneel's Proposal.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

He might have Grown up.I Will Tell You Why?Grandine wished That Wendy and Natsu have Good Relations This Time.How Can a Little Child have Bad Relations.May Be Wendy suffered from Law of Retrogresaion and END may have been Too.

Zeref also explained that part. As he was still child, Natsu wasnt such a good boy. Zeref himself said, "You never were a good listener, even back then... No matter what i did, you made no attempt to learn a language or written word. Thus, I sought advice from Igneel, my close friend." That part give us hint that Pre-Igneel Natsu was not a nice guy, he might even be bully to weak because there wasnt any parent to praise him for his deeds or punish him for his faults. Zeref might be spoiled him too, since everything he did was to bring Natsu back and after accomplishing that, he might spoiled him too much and as we know spoiling kid too much doesnt bring good results and we all know what Wendy isnot someone with strong personality and cannot deal with bully as we first met her so that might be the case but i am sure that they werent became kids because of process.

 

[kkck]

Yes, At 426th chapter named Memoirs he explained how he created Natsu. All the other Demons didnt have bodies execpt Natsu he said. He added i accomplished 2 of my goals at the same time, i bring back my brother and creted strongest Ethelious.It is clear that he saw his brother and lived with him but as FirenX said because of memory alteriation magic, he forgot all of that and simply remember his training days with Igneel but not before not after of that days.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

We dont know that yet, all we know that every ethelious has his second form which let them use their curse freely so why shouldnt also have his but that doesnt meant that he would loose his consciousness and go mad.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---

You might be right or wrong. We dont have any clue to go against it or go with it. He might simply stabbed the book to show Natsu that he is the book itself and his farewell means that that was the last time he is willing to die and never gonna go easy on anyone again or something like that we really dont know but cannot wait to see it. If he really wanted to awaken END he could simply open the book and here we go, END is back. That is the reason Igneel warned Natsu to dont open the book or dont destroy it. As we all learn from Natsu's encounter with Zeref, damaging book also means damaging Natsu so if you destroy it also destroys Natsu so i think he simply showed this to Natsu not try to awaken END but let's see what is gonna happen next

Ahh, you are right. It depends a bit on the translation though, the MS one makes it more clear zeref did use his brother's corpse. The other one is a tad ambiguous in that regard.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---

Zeref also explained that part. As he was still child, Natsu wasnt such a good boy. Zeref himself said, "You never were a good listener, even back then... No matter what i did, you made no attempt to learn a language or written word. Thus, I sought advice from Igneel, my close friend." That part give us hint that Pre-Igneel Natsu was not a nice guy, he might even be bully to weak because there wasnt any parent to praise him for his deeds or punish him for his faults. Zeref might be spoiled him too, since everything he did was to bring Natsu back and after accomplishing that, he might spoiled him too much and as we know spoiling kid too much doesnt bring good results and we all know what Wendy isnot someone with strong personality and cannot deal with bully as we first met her so that might be the case but i am sure that they werent became kids because of process.

I think the key here is that zeref has the book of end. Remember when mard geer regressed to a book? As in, we saw him literally turn into a book. With that in mind we can make the case that each demon is literally a book. When used or released the book itself turns into a demon. So... if natsu is end then why does zeref have his book? By this logic there shouldn't be a physical book of end if natsu is around. However we know for a fact the book is connected to natsu. With that in mind the question would be why there is a book of end existing independently of natsu... The way I see it this is the key to the missing part of the story. We know natsu was unruly when he was just made... I think this is an understatement. Odds are that the book we are seeing is but a portion of natsu, the part that made him dangerous in the past. Which was sealed away so that natsu would be normal.

 

[Yunkers]

I think the key here is that zeref has the book of end. Remember when mard geer regressed to a book? As in, we saw him literally turn into a book. With that in mind we can make the case that each demon is literally a book. When used or released the book itself turns into a demon. So... if natsu is end then why does zeref have his book? By this logic there shouldn't be a physical book of end if natsu is around. However we know for a fact the book is connected to natsu. With that in mind the question would be why there is a book of end existing independently of natsu... The way I see it this is the key to the missing part of the story. We know natsu was unruly when he was just made... I think this is an understatement. Odds are that the book we are seeing is but a portion of natsu, the part that made him dangerous in the past. Which was sealed away so that natsu would be normal.

But demons don't have body, but Natsu has, remember? E.N.D. is probably demon AND human and that make him so powerful. In my opinion when E.N.D. awakens and fuse with "body", there would be "mind fight" between Natsu and E.N.D. and the stronger personality would control "body". That way Natsu will be able to kill Zeref, but he will be also on good side. Maybe the reason why demons need to destroy magic is to weaken Natsu "human-side" then newborn "demon-side" has possibility to control body. But of course there is also possibility that even E.N.D. is awaken Natsu remains the same and demon is the other being.

 

[Arjuna]

Zeref also explained that part. As he was still child, Natsu wasnt such a good boy. Zeref himself said, "You never were a good listener, even back then... No matter what i did, you made no attempt to learn a language or written word. Thus, I sought advice from Igneel, my close friend." That part give us hint that Pre-Igneel Natsu was not a nice guy, he might even be bully to weak because there wasnt any parent to praise him for his deeds or punish him for his faults. Zeref might be spoiled him too, since everything he did was to bring Natsu back and after accomplishing that, he might spoiled him too much and as we know spoiling kid too much doesnt bring good results and we all know what Wendy isnot someone with strong personality and cannot deal with bully as we first met her so that might be the case but i am sure that they werent became kids because of process.

1)What I Get From Zeref's Statement is That Natsu(END at that time) didn't listen to Him.He had made His Last Ditch Effort To Kill him so He made END Very Powerful and END didn't listen to him and nor did he try to learn any language.He did all the things which made him known as the "Vilest Demon of Zeref" and Gained a Reputation among The Etherious that's why Igneel and other Dragons tried to prevent END's Revival in Tartaros.Zeref accepted Igneel's Proposal (as END was powerful than Him) My Theory and Only Igneel had The Power To Control END.
ii)I Have a Theory What if END killed Wendy's Family.
iii)Zeref pinned His Hopes on Natsu Finishing Him Through Dragon Slaying Magic.Why?May be END refused to kill Zeref and didn't listen to him.So He Pinned Natsu in killing Him.

 

[azat501]

Ahh, you are right. It depends a bit on the translation though, the MS one makes it more clear zeref did use his brother's corpse. The other one is a tad ambiguous in that regard.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---

I think the key here is that zeref has the book of end. Remember when mard geer regressed to a book? As in, we saw him literally turn into a book. With that in mind we can make the case that each demon is literally a book. When used or released the book itself turns into a demon. So... if natsu is end then why does zeref have his book? By this logic there shouldn't be a physical book of end if natsu is around. However we know for a fact the book is connected to natsu. With that in mind the question would be why there is a book of end existing independently of natsu... The way I see it this is the key to the missing part of the story. We know natsu was unruly when he was just made... I think this is an understatement. Odds are that the book we are seeing is but a portion of natsu, the part that made him dangerous in the past. Which was sealed away so that natsu would be normal.

Answer to having Natsu and Book at the sametime is simple. While Natsu had his real body even before ethelios magic, none of the other demons did. Book is their full power and without their power, ethelious turn in book but in Natsu's case, even without his full power, he has his body. You might ask why he is still moving even without his powers? It is simple too, after resurecting Natsu, Zeref let Igneel teach him dragon slayer magic and this new magic became his source of life, as we all remember, whenever Natsu used too much power he almost died and his scarf might be his connectiong to his dragon slayer magic. At tenroo island, his scarf turned black because of Zeref's magic and Natsu couldnt recovered damage he took until Wendy healed his scarf.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

1)What I Get From Zeref's Statement is That Natsu(END at that time) didn't listen to Him.He had made His Last Ditch Effort To Kill him so He made END Very Powerful and END didn't listen to him and nor did he try to learn any language.He did all the things which made him known as the "Vilest Demon of Zeref" and Gained a Reputation among The Etherious that's why Igneel and other Dragons tried to prevent END's Revival in Tartaros.Zeref accepted Igneel's Proposal (as END was powerful than Him) My Theory and Only Igneel had The Power To Control END.
ii)I Have a Theory What if END killed Wendy's Family.
iii)Zeref pinned His Hopes on Natsu Finishing Him Through Dragon Slaying Magic.Why?May be END refused to kill Zeref and didn't listen to him.So He Pinned Natsu in killing Him.

1)Igneel wasnt weaker than END. Last encounter with Zeref explained that. Igneel could easly kill E.N.D but he loved Natsu and took him as his child and made him DS.All the other Ethelious creation never seen E.N.D , they might heard his power from Zeref or someone else but noone seen E.N.D's true power or what he is capable of.If someone did, they could remember his face, even Acknologia himself didnt know who E.N.D is, orelse he wouldnt simply retreat from battlefield after killing Igneel. Even Acknalogia heard what he is capable of and what he is but never seen him

2)If E.N.D killed Wendy's family,why would they want them to became friends. They would keep them away not make them buddies. I am sure that, problem between them isnot that serious. Orelse, after recovering their memories, they would simply start fighting again.
3) He didnt let Igneel to teach him how to use DS to kill him. It was for Acknalogia, even now he is trying to kill him. Maybe Acknalogia is the one who killed their family or something else

 

[Arjuna]

Answer to having Natsu and Book at the sametime is simple. While Natsu had his real body even before ethelios magic, none of the other demons did. Book is their full power and without their power, ethelious turn in book but in Natsu's case, even without his full power, he has his body. You might ask why he is still moving even without his powers? It is simple too, after resurecting Natsu, Zeref let Igneel teach him dragon slayer magic and this new magic became his source of life, as we all remember, whenever Natsu used too much power he almost died and his scarf might be his connectiong to his dragon slayer magic. At tenroo island, his scarf turned black because of Zeref's magic and Natsu couldnt recovered damage he took until Wendy healed his scarf.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

1)Igneel wasnt weaker than END. Last encounter with Zeref explained that. Igneel could easly kill E.N.D but he loved Natsu and took him as his child and made him DS.All the other Ethelious creation never seen E.N.D , they might heard his power from Zeref or someone else but noone seen E.N.D's true power or what he is capable of.If someone did, they could remember his face, even Acknologia himself didnt know who E.N.D is, orelse he wouldnt simply retreat from battlefield after killing Igneel. Even Acknalogia heard what he is capable of and what he is but never seen him

2)If E.N.D killed Wendy's family,why would they want them to became friends. They would keep them away not make them buddies. I am sure that, problem between them isnot that serious. Orelse, after recovering their memories, they would simply start fighting again.
3) He didnt let Igneel to teach him how to use DS to kill him. It was for Acknalogia, even now he is trying to kill him. Maybe Acknalogia is the one who killed their family or something else

1)That's What I Told You.END was Stronger than Zeref but Zeref couldn't Control END so asked Igneel to To Help as Igneel was Stronger than END He Could Control Him.They Sealed Him and We haven't seen any Hints that Zeref is trying to Revive Him.On The Contrary He doesn't want to Revive END I Believe.He Hoped That Natsu will become Strong by learning Dragon Slaying Magic and Kill him.In Chapter 465 He had Said Acnologia disldn't matter to him at That Point of Time.

 

[DarkSoulz]

Zeref doesn't want to release END.That's Why He pinned His Hopes on Natsu killing Him.END was too hard for Him To Control.That's Why He Accepted Igneel's Proposal

That is true but the reason end was created was to kill Zeref in the first place. If Natsu failed to kill him, then what other option does Zeref have other than "reviving" end, even if he can't control him?

 

[Arjuna]

That is true but the reason end was created was to kill Zeref in the first place. If Natsu failed to kill him, then what other option does Zeref have other than "reviving" end, even if he can't control him?

Until Now Zeref didn't do anything to Release END.May Be In The End He will Release Him but My Believe is That 400 Years ago END didn't listen to him and did not try to kill him.In Chapter 466 Zeref says He has no Hesitation That Means Killing Himself is now not possible now.If He had tried to revive END He would not Have Said This.

 

[juviichan]

i think that when Natsu will awake something really bad will happen to Lucy and the rest, maybe from Zeref`s tries to make Natsu more stronger that he will able to kill him, or maybe from END`s itself, maybe END wasnt ever aweaken, so Zeref dunno really about END`s personality. but i dont have a theory about this... im also wonder what will happen when Jellal and the rest will hear about that Natsu is the little brother of Zeref... and dont forget about Gray. his goal is to destroy END, after all. but when he will hear that END was his best friend all this time... this will be really hard for him, even tho im sure that Juvia will be there for him.
thats what i think.
what do you guys think?

 

[Arjuna]

i think that when Natsu will awake something really bad will happen to Lucy and the rest, maybe from Zeref`s tries to make Natsu more stronger that he will able to kill him, or maybe from END`s itself, maybe END wasnt ever aweaken, so Zeref dunno really about END`s personality. but i dont have a theory about this... im also wonder what will happen when Jellal and the rest will hear about that Natsu is the little brother of Zeref... and dont forget about Gray. his goal is to destroy END, after all. but when he will hear that END was his best friend all this time... this will be really hard for him, even tho im sure that Juvia will be there for him.
thats what i think.
what do you guys think?

I Think Lucy will Save Him i.e.Natsu or END Through One Magic Love.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

It would be better if gray save him with lucy.
Gray and lucy could be pretty good

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

i think that when Natsu will awake something really bad will happen to Lucy and the rest, maybe from Zeref`s tries to make Natsu more stronger that he will able to kill him, or maybe from END`s itself, maybe END wasnt ever aweaken, so Zeref dunno really about END`s personality. but i dont have a theory about this... im also wonder what will happen when Jellal and the rest will hear about that Natsu is the little brother of Zeref... and dont forget about Gray. his goal is to destroy END, after all. but when he will hear that END was his best friend all this time... this will be really hard for him, even tho im sure that Juvia will be there for him.
thats what i think.
what do you guys think?

I think when Jellal learns Natsu is Zeref's little brother Jellal will change his goal from killing Zeref to killing Natsu and Zeref. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Cobra heard what Zeref told Natsu and told Jellal. I would like to see Gray reaction when he finds out Natsu is Zeref's brother and END.

 

[febez]

I am not sure you really need to erase magic to release end. That is what mard geer thought but recent chapters have proven that mard geer was not completely knowledgeable. The book is eventually going to be opened and zeref is unlikely to do so by getting rid of magic. At best mard geer's idea is but one alternative to achieve this.

It is entirely possible that END to begin with had dragon slayer magic. Or a dragon slayer curse. It depends on whether the END related events on the past happened after or before natsu learned DS magic. I am not so sure the issue was natsu being uncontrollable. If natsu had too much power then teaching him dragon slayer magic seems a bit counter intuitive.

I do wonder what it would take to open the book of END. Igneel told Natsu not to open the book, so that either means i) it can be opened by anyone. ii) Natsu himself can open it. iii) Igneel didn't know about the seal.
That or it was just put in for the END theory hype