Discussion Natsu Dragneel/E.N.D Thread

[Spirit]

The guilds of Fiore lay in various states of unconsciousness, some of the mages are dead, others groaning in agony after their various defeats at the hands of the Spriggan 12.
Natsu looks up at Zeref surrounded by his warriors, scratched up but largely unhurt after the great battle.
Zeref looks at Erza lying a short distance away and raises an eyebrow at Irene.
"You brought here here, so what are you going to do now?"
Irene smirks. "No true sister of mine would be so embarrassingly weak. I'll have her cast over the side of this mountain".
As Natsu glares at his older brother he rises shakily to his feet. "You leave my friends alone right now or i'll-"
He's cut off as Zeref is now standing directly in front of Natsu, looking down at him.
"Do what, exactly Natsu? Ishgar lies in ruins, its guilds decimated. Only a few mages remain standing, but soon they too will fall".
He pulls and book of END from his robe and Irene and Larcade's eyes widen. "Your Majesty is he really the one?"
Zeref nods as Natsu continues to glare at him.
"Etherious Natsu Dragneel... Fairy Heart is now a part of my body... I am both immortal and have a limitless wellspring of magical power inside me. At last.... I can summon your true form..."
Suddenly Makarov crests the top of the mountain that the guild stood atop, followed by Mirajane, Lisanna and Lucy.
"Natsu! Some to me, quickly!"
Natsu doesn't understand but he leaps up and lands next to his master, and without uttering a word the two mages join one of their hands and raise them into the air. Makarov glares in concentration as Natsu's body begins to glow red, the ethereal fire spreading to envelope Makarov's body also. Zeref's eyes widen. "Natsu don''t!"
But he's too late to stop them as Makarov incants a powerful spell.
Black Magician Zeref... Emperor Spriggan... I don't care who you are... But you have harmed both my children and my home! You will not be forgiven..."
Natsu and Makarov raise their eyes skyward as the rest of the mages present gasp as a humongous Magical Circle fills the sky above the twisted Magnolia.
"Blaze King's Law!!!"
This Flame infused Fairy Law descends upon the armies of Alvarez and burns every single soldier of the one million to ash, leaving only the remaining Spriggan 12 and the strongest of the enemy mages...
Zeref's eyes narrow slightly as Makarov staggers backwards and Natsu takes a step towards his brother.
"You've done very well Natsu... but you're too late to stop me in that form now... I have enough magical power to destroy this entire world, but that is not what I want... What I want is END. Etherious Natsu Dragneel..."
At last, he opens the book of END and suddenly Natsu's body is wrapped in a burning hellfire, blistering and burning his skin as he cries out in agony. Lucy raises a hand to her mouth and the other Fairy Tail guild members gasp at the revelation.
"The fire is burning Natsu... Impossible!"
Zeref smiles as Natsu stops crying out and stands up, his body still aflame.. But this was no longer Natsu Dragneel... This was END
His eyes were bottomless black pits and his mouth was a grey maw. He roars, and the shock wave created by it knocks several of the giant ice mountains created by Invel to the ground, crushing countless houses and buildings. Irene and Larcade spring forward to protect Zeref as the Black Wizard slams a palm into the ground beneath them, teleporting the Spriggan 12 to a safe distance away. END crashes a flaming fist into the ground in anger, and a totem of fire explodes high into the sky, engulfing the guild hall and the entire centre of the mountain. As the flames die out, the entire area that had been the guild hall was replaced by a kilometer deep pit, the edges still hot and melting into lava as it drips down into the crater... Zeref smiles again.
"And now... The world as we know it will come to an end..."

 

[GamerSkull]

RIP these 973 Fodders. Guess @GodOfDestruction just didn't give a flying fudge to remember you

Spoiler

Jk . Natsu just rarely kills and only does it when he needs to.

Natsu just seemed really done at the time. He went straight for Zeref first thing. "Screw this. I'm skipping to the final boss."

 

[Arjuna]

@Emperor Spriggan
Check the theory i posted in page 10.You will get evidence that Natsu and END are two different personalities.Might there be a transformation.
@Escanors Pride You too.

@Discarab I don't believe Natsu's death is the key to revival of END.You have to break the seal on The Book Of END and open the book.Killing the vessel is not the way.

 

[Hermit]

@Emperor Spriggan
Check the theory i posted in page 10.You will get evidence that Natsu and END are two different personalities.Might there be a transformation.
@Escanors Pride You too.

@Discarab I don't believe Natsu's death is the key to revival of END.You have to break the seal on The Book Of END and open the book.Killing the vessel is not the way.

Just finished reading..damn that was long af XD
But worth the read lol...
Did you see my theory about the Tartaros segments and the Book of E.N.D?
Chapter 500 might be called E.N.D

 

[DemonKing888]

Natsu just seemed really done at the time. He went straight for Zeref first thing. "Screw this. I'm skipping to the final boss."

I wonder if that was Natsu's demonic instinct. Must kill Zeref no matter the cost those 973 fodder just got in the way.

 

[yukistorm33]

I wonder if that was Natsu's demonic instinct. Must kill Zeref no matter the cost those 973 fodder just got in the way.

Mard Geer mentioned Zeref's demons are programed per their genetic order to find and kill Zeref.

So its possible Zeref did the same with Natsu.

 

[Arjuna]

Just finished reading..damn that was long af XD
But worth the read lol...
Did you see my theory about the Tartaros segments and the Book of E.N.D?
Chapter 500 might be called E.N.D

Yeah i had read that.Nice theory.Kind a like Magna carta theory.Very much possible.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 17, 2016 ---

Yeah you nailed it. Pretty much perfect explanation why E.N.D is just Natsu, with just some power up.

Just see the theory i posted in page 10.You will get lot of proof that Natsu and END are two different personalities.

 

[GamerSkull]

If there isn't an actual power-up, I feel like there has to be an alternate personality of sorts. It has to be both or either. I cannot see E.N.D. not being a transformation OR a different personality... there must be something to it coming up.

 

[Arjuna]

Thanks to Kerropi of FTB

In FT, no matter how many kinds of magic a character can use, they all have their own signature magic, a magic that can represents themselves. However, have you ever think about, why that magic can respresent them? Why Hiro give that magic to the character? Is there any meaning or something hidden behind the reason to give that magic to them?

If you pay some attentions, you will find that many of the signature magic Hiro given to the characters suit their characteristic and personalities a lot. From obvious examples like Erza and Gray, to less obvious examples like Gajeel and Rogue, the nature of their signature magic or elements they use are more or less reflecting their personalities, characteristic, strength, and/or even role they are taking or may take in the story. As Hiro seem love using symbolism, he may actually using the signature magic to symbolize these things.

Among all characters, there're two of them have this possible Magic Symbolism mean a lot more on them than anyone else do. They are Natsu and Lucy.

In this thread, I will talk about the Magic Symbolism on Natsu's magic/element, and then make predictions on the plot about END by it.
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Natsu is a Fire Dragon Slayer and has Fire as his element.

Just as the impression his element gives people, he is hot-blooded and people can feel warm when being with him.

Since ancient times, Fire are always being used to keep people warm and away from beast. Fire can also keep people away from darkness with its radiance.

And just like a campfire that keeps people away from coldness, darkness and dangerous beasts in a cold dark night, Natsu always shine and warm everyone with hope when despair come, keeping them away from being hopeless, and will always protect his friends from anything that threat their life.

Natsu is no doubt representing by Fire's bright side of Light and Warmth. He is a protector like campfire and indeed is the Flame of Hope to his friends.

However, Fire is not always a protector. It has its dark side. So as Natsu, who is also END, the ultimate flame etherious created by Zeref. If Natsu is the bright side of Fire, then END will most likely be its dark side.

Before talk about how END can be the dark side of Fire and make predictions on it, we need to make one thing clear first: Are Natsu and END always the same, or are they being two different souls/personalities that share the same body?
(Put in spoiler tag as it may be off topic)

Spoiler

Despite being the same person, Natsu and END are always being treated as two different characters. Even after the reveal of "Natsu is END", they are still more or less being treated as two different person.

In Chapter 373, Zeref said only Natsu or END can reach his side and kill him, as if they are two different person while also hints that they are the same. In Chapter 436, Zeref first refer END as an "the strongest etherious he created with his younger brothet's body", but then he quickly introduced himself to him as his elder brother, as if he's not END but the Natsu before his death. In Chapter 465, Zeref said "My younger brother Natsu also perished……" instead of "You also perished……" when talking about END to Natsu before telling him he's END. These shows that while Natsu and END are the same person, they still being treated as two different beings from time to time.

It's also weird that if END is always the Natsu we know, why Silver would know that END is a flame demon when Natsu only learn Fire magic from Igneel, and this fact is pretty much only known by no one other than Natsu, Igneel and Zeref, as it was Igneel volunteer to take care of Natsu and teach him magic in the first place? Also if END is always Natsu and has never do anything, why Mard Geer know he can use END's name to create Tartaros and has the rest of etherious listen to him instead of thinking he's a foolish person that try faking things up with an imaginary guild master? If END is always that little innocent boy that adopted by Igneel, where does that "It's on a completely different scale compared to Deliora and Lullaby" information from? And if END is always the Natsu we know and Igneel always love him as if he's his own child, where the rumor of "Igneel wants to kill END" from? Why Igneel had to specifically tell Natsu not to open the Book of END? What will happen if the book is open? Also why je would volunteer to take care and teach Natsu magic even he should barely know him at that time being?

Zeref once mention Natsu is never a good listener, hinting that Natsu/END did live with Zeref for a certain time period before adopted by Igneel, can there's any thing happen at that time period that has show the world the true nature of END and cause Zeref seal him into a book thus turning him into the Natsu we know?

As there're evidence that show Natsu and END are may not be the very same characters while physically being the same person, we can assume that END is a dark counterpart of Natsu.

If Natsu and END are different in character, that will mean END cannot be the Flame of Hope like Natsu. Then, what's he will be like? And what the differences between Natsu and END will bring to the plot on END?

The answer may lay in the reason why we must handle fire with extreme care.

As mentioned above, while Fire has its bright side of light and warmth and can be a protector, it has its dark side as well. This dark side of Fire is ruthless and destructive, which also make Fire a killer.

When Fire is not being handle carefully, it will go out of control and turn into conflagration, burning down pretty much everything around and take away many lives. At this time being, Fire will become ruthless killer, and will bring darkness to people's heart instead of lighting up people's. As END is most likely be the dark side of Natsu, this dark side of Fire may reflect to the nature of the ultimate etherious: a killer.

Now make some predictions on plot of END through this symbolism of two different side of Fire on Natsu and END.

Natsu, as the Flame of Hope to the guild, he's the Heart of FT and is the one always bring hope to his friends. He also always protect his friends like a campfire does. Throughout the series, you can see how his guildmate always trust and some may even relay on him to bring hope to their heart.

However, when END awaken, being ruthless and destructive like the dark side of Fire, he may turn against the guild and bring sadness, confusion, fear and/or despair to his friends. It would be just like how a campfire that was protecting you in a cold dark night, suddenly turn into a forest fire that going to kill you along with many lives. It's no doubt will be a really huge impact to FT.

And as END maybe representing by the dark side of Fire, he can be a killer as well. And will most likely kill and cause significant death(s) to FT. While still not know who END will try to kill or will END success in the killing, but it will make the impact of the awaken of END become even greater and give FT bigger darkness and despair to their heart, making END the Inferno of Despair.

Now the final question, where this plot of END will lead to, and how it will effect the development of FT?

Here's a quote from a Disney movieThe Lion King II: Simba's Pride: "Fire is a killer. Sometimes what's left behind can grow better than the generation before… if given the chance". This shown the fact that how fire can help restoring nutrients in soils. With richer nutrients in soils, plants can grow better and healthier.

This will also happen to FT: After being burnt by Inferno of Despair (END), what's left behind (those not killed by END) will grow better than generation before (gain development and become an even better guild).

As when Natsu become END, there will be no longer Flame of Hope bringing FT hope. So FT members must learn to get out of despair and grab their own hope all by themselves. Then, they will have to stay strong and take action to restore their Flame of Hope (saving Natsu from END). This will give them the ability to get the hope by themselves, instead of always having the specific one or few mages giving hope to them.

Also, Zeref once said he will give Natsu despair, so Natsu may get thrown into despair by END's awaken, or it's actually the darkness that the despair brought to his heart trig the awaken of END. In this case, the way to save Natsu from END will be very likely to bring the Light of Hope to his heart like how he always does to his friends. It may be a great developments on how his friends give him hope back and save him, as a return on how he always support them and save them from darkness in the most hopeless moments.
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FT is going to have its 500th chapter. Wonder if END will awaken on that chapter. But no matter when END will awaken, I hope the plot of END will do something significant and give us a real climax to the series, instead of just being another power up of Natsu.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2016 ---

Courtesy Lucy of FTB
Even without the symbolism I always suspected that E.N.D. would be the opposite of Natsu where he is the hope and heart of his guild in many ways E.N.D. would bring destruction and despair to all around him. Using the symbolism of fire shows accurately the good and bad sides there are to such an element. Fire can protect but it can also destroy. I do think that this is another reason why such a thing happening with E.N.D. would be good. It would really cause the guild to stop just relying on Natsu and look inwardly at themselves and instead of them always being saved by him the group would have to save Natsu.

Yet as E.N.D. his fire can potentially burn and kill anything he touches or gets near. So people will have to really reach deep inside themselves and make an effort to walk through those flames to reach out to the true Natsu. Yet on the surface E.N.D. would be a dangerous horrific being. They will have to look past that and recognize that E.N.D. is also their Natsu. He's saved a lot of them so now it's their turn to do the same with him.

Also reading this I started thinking about Zeref and his wish for Natsu to end him. He may have created E.N.D. as a Fire Demon with the hopes that he'd be purified and reborn by it's flames. A Fire Phoenix is a symbol of rebirth in mythology and very much connected with Flames. Perhaps that is why Zeref chose that element for E.N.D. to wield as his power. With fire there was a chance that the flames could burn him to ashes and allow him to one day be reborn after death. A way of cleansing and purifying him of his sins and letting him move on sort of. Because as you pointed out Silver has stated E.N.D. is a flame demon. He didn't seem to know Natsu and E.N.D. were one and the same but through the others members he probably knew E.N.D.'s Element which means he'd have to have it before he was merely known as Natsu. It wouldn't be too far-fetched for E.N.D. to have his own variation of fire magic or curses.

Without the symbolism there is still potential in the opposite factor with Natsu. But with the symbolism it makes even more sense. Mashima really likes to make his characters reflect their magic in one way or another. Sometimes it's more noticeable like Millianna with her catlike powers. But other times it's less outwardly shown and more inwardly. I can really see the potential in this analysis you did. It describes practically everything I believe about E.N.D. as a true threat but in a new way that demonstrates the symbolism.

There are multiple situation and words that really foreshadow or speak plainly of E.N.D. as a separate being from Natsu. And you've covered a great deal of them really well. Let me see if I can add one more...

Spoiler

Igneel also differentiates between E.N.D. and Natsu. In Chapter 413 specifically Igneel worked with the other dragons to halt E.N.D.'s revival. The dragons plan was to wait till they were strong enough to destroy Acnologia with the help of the children. However they found the threat of E.N.D.'s resurrection more important to take care of. Why is this? Why couldn't they just have waited. The very fact they risked what was left of their lives to keep Natsu's alter ego imprisoned in the Book speaks volumes of threat he is. Igneel planned to destroy E.N.D. but he could because he came to love Natsu. Yet the fact remains that Igneel still warned Natsu not to open the Book of E.N.D. in Chapter 401 and he emerged to stop FACE from destroying magic for the sole purpose of halting E.N.D.'s revival.

Also specifically in Chapter 400 Igneel entrusts Natsu with the task of defeating E.N.D. Why would he tell him this if it was just himself. If anything that adds to him as a threat and separate strongly.


SNAP I just had a crazy revelation when writing this. Okay this may or may not prove that E.N.D. will appear in Chapter 500. But Igneel talks to Natsu through his thoughts before he appears in person and tells him he trusts that Natsu will defeat E.N.D. Now we all know that Natsu is E.N.D. and he can't defeat himself. However what if this was mentioned in Chapter 400 as a foreshadowing for Chapter 500 with the chance that E.N.D. will appear. The very fact E.N.D. is mentioned in this chapter with regards to Natsu being entrusted with his defeat makes me think that E.N.D. could possibly truly emerge in Chapter 500. I need to reread this chapter and analyze it more. But yeah this is really foreshadowing the possibility.

 

[Hermit]

@natsulucy Swear to God, I think my favorite threads ever other than the usual power ranking or battle threads are E.N.D discussions, and I think you're one person who shares that passion with me
Either way, this is more of a stretch than actual theory but what if the Book of E.N.D has a will of its own? Yes I'm drawing this from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets but hear me out on this, the book acts like a horcrux of sorts to Natsu.

Spoiler: Natsu is injured at the same time the Book is damaged

From this we can already infer that there's an Organic Link between Natsu and the Book, but what if the book was....alive in it's own way? From this page:

Spoiler: Zeref talking to the Book of E.N.D

Zeref was talking to the Book like a person, and Natsu didn't exactly hear what Zeref was telling the Book, it's safe to infer there's a sentient being in there. What if it could communicate with people on the outside world and impose it's will on them? Tom Riddle's diary possessed Ginny and had her open the Chamber of Secrets, plus other trivial matters like killing all the school chicken, so what if the Book is the same way?
Mard Geer held E.N.D as an obsession, and from what the CSK says here:

Spoiler: The Celestial King talking to Mard Geer

It's safe to assume that the Book has been in Mard's possession for a long time and he didn't get it recently. He did not want to let the Book out of his hands when fighting the CSK, the Twin Dragons, Natsu, and only let go of it once he got serious and wanted to get rid of Natsu and the Twins as much as possible.

Spoiler: Mard Geer finally lets go of the Book of E.N.D

What if the reason he was obsessed with reviving E.N.D was because it was the Book's will? Mard placed all his confidence in E.N.D being able to kill Zeref, but what if it's because the Book told him that it was capable of ending Zeref? Realistically speaking, none of the members of Tartaros had met E.N.D, they shouldn't even know of his history with Igneel except the part of him being Zeref's strongest demon. So the Book might have somehow communicated its will to Mard Geer and that was why he came up with the FACE plan.
Either way, this is more of me being a HP fan more than anything lol, although it would be awesome if that was the case

 

[shadow22]

in edolas natsu dressed up as great demon lord dragneel(epic foreshadowing of natsu being e.n.d.) fought mystogan as a fake fight where natsu pretended to be a villain and said that he would steal all of the worlds magic and he made a speech that he would steal all the edolas magic and tartarus arc was focused on face where people were trying to take the continents magic away to awaken e.n.d. . anyway ithink there will be aparallel with e.n.d. fighting jellal just as how natsu dressed up as great demon lord dragneel fought mystogan.
plus e.n.d when it awakens will take over natsus body for he is like natsus zero and jellal had spent years possessed and when natsu defeated the possessed jellal with help . so it would be a parallel for jellal to fight the possessed natsu

 

[GamerSkull]

It's possible. We know that Jellal has a vendetta against Zeref so he would probably want to take down any demons created by Zeref, even if it ends up being Natsu. I wouldn't mind this... a good fight between Jellal and Natsu again would be welcome, even if the latter is in an END transformation. In fact, this would be a reversal of roles as now Natsu would be an agent of Zeref and Jellal would be fighting for the good side.

 

[Alvarez Princess]

Like I said, Natsu IS END, he was resurrected over 400 years ago by Zeref via etherius. Anything more then that is speculation, including END being a different persona of Natsus or whatever other theory you want to bring up.



But he did, his life was a life of living hell because of a bunch of Zeref worshippers. Its the only reason why he got in the position to be brainwashed in the first place.

Thanks.
.

Natsu is END, that was never the argument, the argument is whether he has a different persona or not, of if the seal of the book will unseal his own memories and making him a different person.

Those were Zeref worshipers , not Zeref himself. We have to look at the cause of what happened, not where it stemmed from, and that is mainly Ultear that ruined Jellal, and even so. By your logic, Sho Wally and Milliana have just as big of a reason to fight Zeref as Jellal does.

 

[Brandish μ]

When it comes to E.N.D I often find myself confused as there is all this hype but not so much truth. Tbh I only follow Zeref's words. Igneel's are credible too, but even he might not be aware of everything. Everyone else though, from Mard to Atlas Flame to Silver, as far as I am concerned they only know rumours or in Mard's case they're telling a few tales.

I agree with those who just think Natsu is END, and there's no awakening or anything like that. I find it hard for their to be this foul demon, considering Natsu was a child when Igneel took him. Even before the memoirs chapter and the Zeref vs Natsu fight, the biggest mystery with END was how he could be Tartarus master and creator of curses if he's a child with Igneel.

That said I'm still open to the idea of some kind of awakening. There's the book of END after all, and there's some kind of organic link between Natsu and the book (as well as Zeref). But for now I'm not going to speculate a great deal.

 

[Arjuna]

@Emperor Spriggan your theory raises a question in my mind.Who is the original Natsu from 400 years?Is he the Natsu we know or END trapped in the book.

@Brandish i disagree here though i may be wrong.Zeref and Igneel both treat Natsu and END as two different personalities.We have Zeref saying,"Either you or END will reach me" to Natsu or talking to the Book of END as if it has a separate personality and also saying to Mard Geer,"You nearly revived END".Then we have Igneel saying Natsu,"I believe you will be the one who will defeat END".This is the masterpiece.This proves Natsu and END are two different personalities and there will be some internal struggle.Then also Igneel said,"We prevented the revival of END".I am not sure about transformation but there should be an Etherious form.

 

[Kiki]

@Brandish i disagree here though i may be wrong.Zeref and Igneel both treat Natsu and END as two different personalities.We have Zeref saying,"Either you or END will reach me" to Natsu or talking to the Book of END as if it has a separate personality and also saying to Mard Geer,"You nearly revived END".Then we have Igneel saying Natsu,"I believe you will be the one who will defeat END".This is the masterpiece.This proves Natsu and END are two different personalities and there will be some internal struggle.Then also Igneel said,"We prevented the revival of END".I am not sure about transformation but there should be an Etherious form.

Thanks for pointing this out. Now I am increasingly convinced that Natsu and END are different. Though not sure if Natsu has a kind of transformation/form (Etherious). But he already had dragon transformation when activating dragon force, therefore I hope if there were an Etherious form, it wouldn't be conspicuous.

I also hope there will be an arc for END. Maybe a kind of FT civil war? Wanna know Mira's reaction towards this, as villagers and her considered her as a half-demon. She'd understand Natsu's case.

 

[Arjuna]

Thanks for pointing this out. Now I am increasingly convinced that Natsu and END are different. Though not sure if Natsu has a kind of transformation/form (Etherious). But he already had dragon transformation when activating dragon force, hence I hope if there were an Etherious form, it wouldn't be conspicuous.

I also hope there will be an arc for END. Maybe a kind of FT civil war? Wanna know Mira's reaction towards this, as villagers and her considered herself as a half-demon. She'd understand Natsu's case.

Thanks Ahmad.I was checking all my theories i posted in this thread and shortlisted these.If Natsu and END are same persons or personalities why will Igneel say "i believe you can defeat END"?Isn't it?I think Lucy will help Natsu to defeat his inner demon(literally).

 

[Hermit]

your theory raises a question in my mind.Who is the original Natsu from 400 years?Is he the Natsu we know or END trapped in the book.

Zeref's little brother, the one we know right now is the original Natsu, the one in the book is a different personality that was born when Natsu died and was resurrected..
Realistically speaking Natsu should have black hair instead of pink hair since Zeref is the same

 

[Arjuna]

Spoiler

I wonder because of this picture.Is the person in this picture END(may be his Etherious form) or some other person.

 

[kemor]

Natsu seemed to be obnoxious as a kid. That may imply he would grow up to be either an asshole or a kid with ADHD. END will most likely be triggered by immense anger or Zeref will simply descend from the hill, open the book and then "lol, have fun" with Natsu who had either personality or appearance change. The perfect way to introduce END would be a silent change, everyone's shocked and then Natsu simply glares at Spriggans/FT members and kills one of them. But this is Fairy Tail, no such thing will happen. Shame