Discussion Official Dragon Slayers Thread

[kkck]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

Quick question during the tartarous arc when the dragons came out of the dragon slayer bodies didn't igneel say that the dragons made antibodies to prevent natsu and the other dragon slayers from becoming dragons so technically they may not be able to use dragon force at all or at least some weird hybrid of a dragons body might be permissible at best max so their maximum dragon powers are now destroyed/limited

or did I misunderstand something ??

So perhaps natsu, gajeel and wendy and laxus and sting may never become real dragons ever and may never achieve true dragon force hence i think natsu can kill zeref with ease but not win acnologia.

However laxus is not imposed by these limitations and being the broken character (the joker) as you say he might be a worthy contender to take on the title of dragon king by transforming into a dragon. Also seems like the guy has been training even more madly and crazier then anyone else

Clearly if natsu gets the title of king of demons (since he is END) we need a new king of dragons title hence laxus could take that title after beating/killing acnologia

So whether dragon force from previous arcs was real dragon force is up for grabs because I thought dragon force meant getting and becoming a dragon physically and literally. ???

IIRC the point was to prevent them from turning into dragons like acknologia. And one way or the other they can use dragon force now. Natsu was able to use it on his own after igneel left and nowadays it seems to be something of a casual thing for wendy. So at least we have conclusive proof that the dragon antibodies do not affect dragon force. The rest depends on how much dragon force and dragonification are actually related.

I guess the question would be whether lachrima dragon slayers are at risk of turning into dragons to begin with. We don't even know if they can use dragon force so far.

 

[amit-monsterman999]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

IIRC the point was to prevent them from turning into dragons like acknologia. And one way or the other they can use dragon force now. Natsu was able to use it on his own after igneel left and nowadays it seems to be something of a casual thing for wendy. So at least we have conclusive proof that the dragon antibodies do not affect dragon force. The rest depends on how much dragon force and dragonification are actually related.

I guess the question would be whether lachrima dragon slayers are at risk of turning into dragons to begin with. We don't even know if they can use dragon force so far.

But could we be accidently thinking dragon force and dragonification (turning into dragons) are the same thing. If we do then Hiro made a huge plot hole because all the work natsu's father igneel did to make antibodies for his son was a huge waste of time (might as well have taught natsu on how to properly use more dangerous dragon slaying magic rather then this if at the end of the day natsu will still going to become a dragon and hence it almost spits on all the hard work his father did for his safety).

But if they are different (dragon force and dragonification) then natsu is put at a huge disadvantage during a future arc with a fight against Acnologia who is more then capable of going all out and becoming a dragon and natsu can't unless he goes demon king but he will likely be prevented from doing that too??

so i thought dragon force and dragonifcation were different things and so someone going dragon force is no big deal but becoming a dragon is so natsu's dragon force isn't a very impressive thing or wendys its simply weak dragon magic.

I guess it could depend on how one uses the lacrima maybe you could turn into a dragon if you push yourself to the brink of death (as both natsu and laxus have been training). Laxus hasn't come back so clearly the dude is seriously seriously training like a mad dragon gone wrong. A lacrima has the attributes of a dragon so who says you can't push the lacrima far enough possibly might have to break it to get to the next level

 

[nichendrix]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

But could we be accidently thinking dragon force and dragonification (turning into dragons) are the same thing. If we do then Hiro made a huge plot hole because all the work natsu's father igneel did to make antibodies for his son was a huge waste of time (might as well have taught natsu on how to properly use more dangerous dragon slaying magic rather then this if at the end of the day natsu will still going to become a dragon and hence it almost spits on all the hard work his father did for his safety).

But if they are different (dragon force and dragonification) then natsu is put at a huge disadvantage during a future arc with a fight against Acnologia who is more then capable of going all out and becoming a dragon and natsu can't unless he goes demon king but he will likely be prevented from doing that too??

so i thought dragon force and dragonifcation were different things and so someone going dragon force is no big deal but becoming a dragon is so natsu's dragon force isn't a very impressive thing or wendys its simply weak dragon magic.

I guess it could depend on how one uses the lacrima maybe you could turn into a dragon if you push yourself to the brink of death (as both natsu and laxus have been training). Laxus hasn't come back so clearly the dude is seriously seriously training like a mad dragon gone wrong. A lacrima has the attributes of a dragon so who says you can't push the lacrima far enough possibly might have to break it to get to the next level

As far as I understand this manga, dragonification is the effect of using dragon force too much, so they aren't the same thing, but are related to one another. What Igneel and the other dragons did was to allow their children to enter dragon force, but without side effects.

They are not in disadvantage against Acnologia because theoretically when you enter Dragon Force you effectively have the power of a Dragon. The only difference of them to Acnologia is that Acnologia have an insane amount of power, while they don't have it yet.

 

[amit-monsterman999]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

As far as I understand this manga, dragonification is the effect of using dragon force too much, so they aren't the same thing, but are related to one another. What Igneel and the other dragons did was to allow their children to enter dragon force, but without side effects.

They are not in disadvantage against Acnologia because theoretically when you enter Dragon Force you effectively have the power of a Dragon. The only difference of them to Acnologia is that Acnologia have an insane amount of power, while they don't have it yet.

But not being able to become dragons is a HUGE disadvantage. Acnologa gets the advantage of size and even the ability to fly and furthermore is even more immune due to dragon scales but natsu's and the rest dragon force is nothing in comparison to that so how can that not be a disadvantage of not being able to become a real dragon.

Thats why Acnologia prefers his dragon body over his human one it makes him a hax character and a super unbeatable being.

Even Igneel had no chance against Acnologia, Igneel still died and thats the king of fire

 

[SirSamuel016]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

But not being able to become dragons is a HUGE disadvantage. Acnologa gets the advantage of size and even the ability to fly and furthermore is even more immune due to dragon scales but natsu's and the rest dragon force is nothing in comparison to that so how can that not be a disadvantage of not being able to become a real dragon.

Thats why Acnologia prefers his dragon body over his human one it makes him a hax character and a super unbeatable being.

Even Igneel had no chance against Acnologia, Igneel still died and thats the king of fire

Sure, Igneel died, but you must remember he was already dead and just a walking corpse, running on 5% He was matching Acnologia and at one stage overwhelmed him with just physical strength. Now Acnologia was at full power there, but he was getting matched by a corpse. If Igneel wasn't a walking corpse, Acnologia probably would've gotten whacked hard.

 

[MangerDan]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

Sure, Igneel died, but you must remember he was already dead and just a walking corpse, running on 5% He was matching Acnologia and at one stage overwhelmed him with just physical strength. Now Acnologia was at full power there, but he was getting matched by a corpse. If Igneel wasn't a walking corpse, Acnologia probably would've gotten whacked hard.

Still want to know what happened did acnologia and igneel fight before ( doesn't seem likely) and acnologia got the upper hand on igneel and took his soul. Or did he use a hax spell that reaped the souls of all the dragons and pretty much went on a killing spree igneel, grandeeny, and Metallicana being the only survivors.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

Still want to know what happened did acnologia and igneel fight before ( doesn't seem likely) and acnologia got the upper hand on igneel and took his soul. Or did he use a hax spell that reaped the souls of all the dragons and pretty much went on a killing spree igneel, grandeeny, and Metallicana being the only survivors.

Grandeeney said that he took their souls with his Dragon Slaying magic, so I assume he'd of had to be close to the dragons to do so.Maybe he caught them off guard and took their souls? And lets not forget Skiadrum and Weisslogia, too. They also had their souls taken, so Acnologia might've sprung a trap on them to get their souls.

 

[nichendrix]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

But not being able to become dragons is a HUGE disadvantage. Acnologa gets the advantage of size and even the ability to fly and furthermore is even more immune due to dragon scales but natsu's and the rest dragon force is nothing in comparison to that so how can that not be a disadvantage of not being able to become a real dragon.

Thats why Acnologia prefers his dragon body over his human one it makes him a hax character and a super unbeatable being.

Even Igneel had no chance against Acnologia, Igneel still died and thats the king of fire

There is no indication that transforming into a dragon give any advantage to the user, on the contrary, it is implied that it could make the Dragon Slayer mad with the lust for power. All powers Acnologia have as a Dragon he also have in his human form, as far as we know he have no more and no less power in dragon form. He prefers his dragon form because he considers himself far superior to mere humans not because he is more powerful on that form, it was stated more than once that at some point Acnologia started seeing himself as superior to mere humans and at some point superior to other Dragon Slayers and Dragons, hence he prefers to use his dragon form since he considers humans inferior to him, even the other dragons he considers inferior to him.

Igneel was already basically dead when he fought Acnologia, yet he managed to take one of his arms and severely injury him, try to imagine what he would do with his full power? Igneel's full power should be what Natsu will be at maximum power in Dragon Force, he simply didn't need to transform into Dragons, that's why the dragons choose to stop dragonification, they will remain humans and would not "fall to the dark side" and start considering themselves more than humans.

 

[amit-monsterman999]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

There is no indication that transforming into a dragon give any advantage to the user, on the contrary, it is implied that it could make the Dragon Slayer mad with the lust for power. All powers Acnologia have as a Dragon he also have in his human form, as far as we know he have no more and no less power in dragon form. He prefers his dragon form because he considers himself far superior to mere humans not because he is more powerful on that form, it was stated more than once that at some point Acnologia started seeing himself as superior to mere humans and at some point superior to other Dragon Slayers and Dragons, hence he prefers to use his dragon form since he considers humans inferior to him, even the other dragons he considers inferior to him.

Igneel was already basically dead when he fought Acnologia, yet he managed to take one of his arms and severely injury him, try to imagine what he would do with his full power? Igneel's full power should be what Natsu will be at maximum power in Dragon Force, he simply didn't need to transform into Dragons, that's why the dragons choose to stop dragonification, they will remain humans and would not "fall to the dark side" and start considering themselves more than humans.

That completely isn't true. If your saying that Acnologia saw himself better than humans and dragons and saw humans as inferior and preferred his dragon form because of that then clearly that was because his dragon form gave him huge advantages over his puny human form. In his human form he may not be able to release the same amount of magic or not be as immune to magic compared to his dragon body. I mean if your saying humans are weak why not take a humanoid appearance you can still rule the world that way as you clearly evolved into something better. Why take a dragons body clearly the dragons body and a dragon slayer becoming a dragon is a huge advantage and asset to taking your enemies down. Fine you become evil but who cares that's not important if you can kill your enemies then kill them.

The fight between Igneel and Acnologia is somewhat screwed because Face was temporarily activated and Acnologia got screwed by that and hence he may have taken a beating. Acnologia also may have underestimated Igneel and have been taken off guard which gave Igneel the advantage something that might be out of character of Acnologia. We also don't know if Acnologia is as strong as he used to be as he simply is acting more like a hermit in many ways almost not caring about ruling the world at all or is he destroying the world as was suggested by dragons as he would be evil. A criteria to be evil is to destroy and kill people he never killed anyone or destroyed anything in the past 400 years after the dragon arc it seems.

Also just because Igneel is strong does not mean Natsu will be equally as strong or stronger than Igneel. A dragon like Igneel is born with a dragons body so has huge power and size to match natsu will never get that advantage ever so it's possible he will be strong but never as strong as Igneel. Igneel was a legendary dragon so unilkely to be matched in power ever again. Just because natsu has igneel's flames does not mean he will be able to beat anyone. You need to be taught how to effectively use that flame and how to properly use dragon slaying magi (something i still find stupidly dis-believable after natsu's one year of homelessness with no teacher to properly guide or train him comes back actually stronger is a huge plothole, mess up and disappointment of the story for me and his character development). Natsu and even the others were never given advanced dragon slayer magic techniques so there's possibly a whole world of magic spells out there that are unaccounted for.

for example imagine the possible scenario if you combine dragon slayer magic with god slayer and devil slayer magic you have a "Tri-Slayer" magic user what the hell can he not do that person could effectively be the strongest character in the series.

I find the information now logically screwed the dragons prevented dragonification but allow dragon force to exist but the dragons have effectively limited the dragon slayers power output effectively making them weaker then they should be plus the dragon slayers were not trained in advanced dragon slayer techniques that would be so handy and useful now so really their power levels are not all that impressive if compared to a properly trained 400 year older generation dragon slayer assuming they were behemoth monsters than the ones running around today as they could become dragons and had more arsenal and power (more dragons around to kill, drink blood from and get power)

 

[nichendrix]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

That completely isn't true. If your saying that Acnologia saw himself better than humans and dragons and saw humans as inferior and preferred his dragon form because of that then clearly that was because his dragon form gave him huge advantages over his puny human form. In his human form he may not be able to release the same amount of magic or not be as immune to magic compared to his dragon body. I mean if your saying humans are weak why not take a humanoid appearance you can still rule the world that way as you clearly evolved into something better. Why take a dragons body clearly the dragons body and a dragon slayer becoming a dragon is a huge advantage and asset to taking your enemies down. Fine you become evil but who cares that's not important if you can kill your enemies then kill them.

The fight between Igneel and Acnologia is somewhat screwed because Face was temporarily activated and Acnologia got screwed by that and hence he may have taken a beating. Acnologia also may have underestimated Igneel and have been taken off guard which gave Igneel the advantage something that might be out of character of Acnologia. We also don't know if Acnologia is as strong as he used to be as he simply is acting more like a hermit in many ways almost not caring about ruling the world at all or is he destroying the world as was suggested by dragons as he would be evil. A criteria to be evil is to destroy and kill people he never killed anyone or destroyed anything in the past 400 years after the dragon arc it seems.

Also just because Igneel is strong does not mean Natsu will be equally as strong or stronger than Igneel. A dragon like Igneel is born with a dragons body so has huge power and size to match natsu will never get that advantage ever so it's possible he will be strong but never as strong as Igneel. Igneel was a legendary dragon so unilkely to be matched in power ever again. Just because natsu has igneel's flames does not mean he will be able to beat anyone. You need to be taught how to effectively use that flame and how to properly use dragon slaying magi (something i still find stupidly dis-believable after natsu's one year of homelessness with no teacher to properly guide or train him comes back actually stronger is a huge plothole, mess up and disappointment of the story for me and his character development). Natsu and even the others were never given advanced dragon slayer magic techniques so there's possibly a whole world of magic spells out there that are unaccounted for.

for example imagine the possible scenario if you combine dragon slayer magic with god slayer and devil slayer magic you have a "Tri-Slayer" magic user what the hell can he not do that person could effectively be the strongest character in the series.

I find the information now logically screwed the dragons prevented dragonification but allow dragon force to exist but the dragons have effectively limited the dragon slayers power output effectively making them weaker then they should be plus the dragon slayers were not trained in advanced dragon slayer techniques that would be so handy and useful now so really their power levels are not all that impressive if compared to a properly trained 400 year older generation dragon slayer assuming they were behemoth monsters than the ones running around today as they could become dragons and had more arsenal and power (more dragons around to kill, drink blood from and get power)

I would not have time to read a post this long to refute it point by point until I get back at home.

Most of what I said is either stated in the manga or implied by what is stated, is there any implication that the reason Acnologia prefer to use his Dragon Form is because it gives him a huge boost in power? As far as I remember there isn't, but memory my could fail, so if you have any point where it was stated that Acnologia Dragon Form makes him stronger than Dragon Force, them, I would like to see it.

You seem to be under the impression that Acnologia actually drinked and bathed in dragon blood.

 

[saw2097]

Considering that Laxus and Cobra never had dragons inside them, it may be possible that they could transform into dragons as they get stronger.

This would lead to a interesting story line where Natsu has to fight them while they are crazy and out of control, Natsu has wanted a rematch with Laxus as he was never satisfied with the fight during the Battle of Fairy Tail arc, this would be his chance.

 

[MangerDan]

Considering that Laxus and Cobra never had dragons inside them, it may be possible that they could transform into dragons as they get stronger.

This would lead to a interesting story line where Natsu has to fight them while they are crazy and out of control, Natsu has wanted a rematch with Laxus as he was never satisfied with the fight during the Battle of Fairy Tail arc, this would be his chance.

This is more of a wish list then something that hiro would actually do considering the 2nd gen slayers don't seem to have the same importance story wise to 1st and 3rd gen. If anyone is turning into a dragon it's natsu end of series while fighting acnologia and even that's a bit iffy.

 

[kkck]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

But could we be accidently thinking dragon force and dragonification (turning into dragons) are the same thing. If we do then Hiro made a huge plot hole because all the work natsu's father igneel did to make antibodies for his son was a huge waste of time (might as well have taught natsu on how to properly use more dangerous dragon slaying magic rather then this if at the end of the day natsu will still going to become a dragon and hence it almost spits on all the hard work his father did for his safety).

But if they are different (dragon force and dragonification) then natsu is put at a huge disadvantage during a future arc with a fight against Acnologia who is more then capable of going all out and becoming a dragon and natsu can't unless he goes demon king but he will likely be prevented from doing that too??

so i thought dragon force and dragonifcation were different things and so someone going dragon force is no big deal but becoming a dragon is so natsu's dragon force isn't a very impressive thing or wendys its simply weak dragon magic.

I guess it could depend on how one uses the lacrima maybe you could turn into a dragon if you push yourself to the brink of death (as both natsu and laxus have been training). Laxus hasn't come back so clearly the dude is seriously seriously training like a mad dragon gone wrong. A lacrima has the attributes of a dragon so who says you can't push the lacrima far enough possibly might have to break it to get to the next level

Well, my point is that they are connected, not that they are the same, because dragon force usually shows up with more dragon like characteristics such as scales or fangs.

 

[nichendrix]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

Well, my point is that they are connected, not that they are the same, because dragon force usually shows up with more dragon like characteristics such as scales or fangs.

The connection between them is rather simple, as far as it is mentioned on the manga. Basically Dragon Force allows Dragon Slayers to have the power of a Dragon and as side effect of its usage you start transforming into dragon, so the more you enter Dragon Force and the more powerful you become in that state, more you'll be closer to total dragonification.

 

[Axiomus]

Re: Fairy Tail 442 Discussion/ 443 Predictions

I think they are one and the same. Every dragon slayer that undergoes dragon force starts turning into a dragon. Natsu's half dragonized form was referred to as a "dragon force-level announcement" in the movie teaser.From the movie promotional picture, we can probably deduce that Igneel's antibodies simply limit the degree to which Natsu can dragonize whilst using dragon force. He may never dragonize 100%, but evidently he can do at least 50%.

This would explain why Acnologia can switch between his dragon and human form. His human form is simply when he doesn't use magic. The fact that Acnologia fights in his dragon form is proof enough that he prefers it to his human form in combat. Dragon Force supposedly lets the user wield the power of a dragon. The part about turning into a dragon making you lose your mind can just be misinformation. Acnologia is very lucid and in control from what we can see in his conversation with Zeref. After all, no good reason why turning into a dragon makes you evil. No dragon thus far was evil for the sake of being evil.

Regarding Igneel vs Acnologia, and why Acnologia had the trouble that he did. The obvious answer was that Igneel was simply that strong. I would imagine Igneel is to dragons what mages like Serena are to humans. I don't believe that Face had a significant impact on their fight though. Face supposedly affects everyone with magic, and that would include Igneel. I would say that Acnologia probably heavily underestimated Igneel though, which probably led to careless mistakes in their fight. When they first fought, Acnologia was confident enough that Igneel couldn't even put up a fight. At the end of the day, however, Acnologia still proved to be stronger.

 

[kkck]

Thinking about acknologia being able to switch between forms, why is it an issue to turn into a dragon? Its one thing if it was irreversible but it seems to be far from the case. Perhaps turning into a dragon results in insanity?

 

[Axiomus]

Thinking about acknologia being able to switch between forms, why is it an issue to turn into a dragon? Its one thing if it was irreversible but it seems to be far from the case. Perhaps turning into a dragon results in insanity?

I don't think turning into a dragon makes you insane or anything. It's just that turning into a dragon grants you a tonne of power. For Acnologia, it made him stronger than even Igneel. So if someone decides to turn evil, then gg.

 

[kkck]

I don't think turning into a dragon makes you insane or anything. It's just that turning into a dragon grants you a tonne of power. For Acnologia, it made him stronger than even Igneel. So if someone decides to turn evil, then gg.

Yes but... what difference does it make? Just look at the sheer strength people in the manga have. Second origin gave the FT gang enough power to rival the 9 demon gates, who made the point each of them was about as strong as a nations army. Which at the moment actually seems pretty reasonable. And we know that the 9 demon gates did not even come close to the likes of gildarts considering how easily laxus beat one. The only one who might have been a challenge is mard geer and even then there are no guarantees that he would actually be a match. So what you have is that there are people around who can foderize beings capable of defeating nations armies. And apparently on top of gildarts you have a number of the 10 wizard saints who are well stronger than that. And if we go by hype alone the sprigan 12 have insane level. In other words, there are already people in the world who have "too much power" to the extent where 99.999999% wouldn't be able to tell the difference of them being 10 times weaker or stronger.

 

[MangerDan]

Thinking about acknologia being able to switch between forms, why is it an issue to turn into a dragon? Its one thing if it was irreversible but it seems to be far from the case. Perhaps turning into a dragon results in insanity?

Perhaps the dragons thought that amount of power will corrupt the dragon slayers resulting in another acnologia or maybe it does make them go insane and turn into blood thirsty killers just waiting for a worthy opponent. They did go through the trouble of creating antibodies and nerfing their growth when inside them so it's definitely not a good thing to fully dragonize.

 

[Axiomus]

Yes but... what difference does it make? Just look at the sheer strength people in the manga have. Second origin gave the FT gang enough power to rival the 9 demon gates, who made the point each of them was about as strong as a nations army. Which at the moment actually seems pretty reasonable. And we know that the 9 demon gates did not even come close to the likes of gildarts considering how easily laxus beat one. The only one who might have been a challenge is mard geer and even then there are no guarantees that he would actually be a match. So what you have is that there are people around who can foderize beings capable of defeating nations armies. And apparently on top of gildarts you have a number of the 10 wizard saints who are well stronger than that. And if we go by hype alone the sprigan 12 have insane level. In other words, there are already people in the world who have "too much power" to the extent where 99.999999% wouldn't be able to tell the difference of them being 10 times weaker or stronger.

Difference is that Acnologia is on a whole different level. Acnologia wasn't just considered strong amongst the humans, he was considered strong amongst the dragons. Mages like Laxus are nothing compared to an average dragon like Zilconis. Just 4 dragons can wipe out all the Faces on the continent, which were Ishgal's defense against Alvarez. Igneel is on a higher level than these 4 dragons, and Acnologia is on a higher level than Igneel.

Acnologia literally has the power to conquer the entire world. That's every country on both continents of Ishgal and Alakitasia.