Discussion Official Rachel Discussion Thread

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

Fate/luck made the chance.

In the first chapter, we can notice that both, Rachel & Baam, are desiring something, the former wants the star sky and the latter follow her to wit's end. I'm assuming, but the Tower could sense Baam's will and thus it open the gate for him... a miscalculation, Rachel was in the middle.

Admins are, by defect, able to hear the Tower (other story is when the Tower wants to be heard) because they make contracts owning their space of it, specially Headon, with the task of seeking Regulars, he can see who's worth and certainly for him, Rachel it isn't.

Rachel is Headon's bet, the card under the sleeve of the Admins' will -i want to think that there's more admins involved-, only because she's Irregular. I'm sure of that.

 

[Kadir0]

My post in no form makes the point that rachel is not an irregular. We know for a fact that she is. The point of the thread is to discuss the circumstances under which she became an irregular, not whether she is one.

Well, it is possible headon was an asshole to put her on the spot however that hardly answers questions. The tower opening it's doors for people it needs is an odd statement because to begin with irregulars are people who open the door themselves. So which is it? Do they open it or are they allowed in?.

The tower chooses the irregulars, Headon chooses the regulars, and that statement ain't odd, is actually proves everything the irregulars do all goes according to tower's wish, it got what it wanted from Enryu, Zahard, Urek and now it's Rachel and Baam. If the tower was a place where every irregular could just enter it whenever they want, there would have been thousands of irregulars roaming around in the tower.

After the latest raw chapter, we know how Rachel is connected

Spoiler

to Baam's mother, and Rachel want to full fill the same wish the tower want from Baam to fullfill it. Whether the tower want Rachel to push Baam or has other plans for Rachel, it still doesnt change that it want something from her, if Rachel was just anybody Headon himself wouldn't have bothered to invest her that much let alone the tower

 

[shaheer]

I guess tower understood to make changes it needs baam to make baam rise through the tower it needs rachel.
I think rachel will ho on to become as influential as mazino in the end and koon nd androssi will put an end to her.

 

[kkck]

The tower chooses the irregulars, Headon chooses the regulars, and that statement ain't odd, is actually proves everything the irregulars do all goes according to tower's wish, it got what it wanted from Enryu, Zahard, Urek and now it's Rachel and Baam. If the tower was a place where every irregular could just enter it whenever they want, there would have been thousands of irregulars roaming around in the tower.

After the latest raw chapter, we know how Rachel is connected

Spoiler

to Baam's mother, and Rachel want to full fill the same wish the tower want from Baam to fullfill it. Whether the tower want Rachel to push Baam or has other plans for Rachel, it still doesnt change that it want something from her, if Rachel was just anybody Headon himself wouldn't have bothered to invest her that much let alone the tower

My post does not suggest that the tower is a place any irregular can enter either. Had I suggested that there wouldn't have been a need for me to theorize rachel might have cheated her way inside the tower.

How does the statement prove what you suggest? We have two mutually exclusive scenarios regarding irregulars entering the tower, either they open the door themselves or "the tower" lets them in. I guess it is also technically possible both things go on at the same time though. Also worth noting, even what headon says in regards to the issue is at best incomplete information. To bam he told had been a while since someone opened the door. Implying bam opened it on his own. To rachel he says she was not chosen by the tower. It is plausible both are true though, that only people chosen by the tower have a chance to open the door themselves. But even that scenario would not rule out that rachel had to find a way to cheat her way in.

Spoiler

I am well aware of the bit about rachel and grace. It has no relation to my point though.

 

[syx]

Headon's convo with Rachel sure is confusing. But all in all, I do believe that Rachel opened the door herself.

First, I find the theory that you can "sneak in" into the Tower - as kkck said - retarded. Given the "magical prowess" of the Tower, this just sounds like a very poor explanation/development.

Second, if Rachel "used" Baam as a loophole - meaning that only Baam and not Rachel opened the door - wouldn't both of them appear in the first floor simultaneously? But that's not the case. Rachel is the first one to appear in the first floor.

Third, everything regarding Headon is a mystery. He is shady as hell and has his own agenda. He may have waited for someone/something and didn't see it in Rachel, thus deeming her as unchosen. Heck, he even may have lied to her in order to manipulate Rachel the way he did. You know, eeverything seems so shady if you read the first floor chapters again after all those years:

• Headon was quite hyped about Baam's arrival
  
• Yet, he gave him a test which would have meant certain death for Baam, if it was not for Yuri and Evan being in the right place at the right time
  
• Suddenly, Headon - who was about to kill Baam - agrees to Yuri helping Baam, even though he had no reason to do so

 

[kkck]

Headon's convo with Rachel sure is confusing. But all in all, I do believe that Rachel opened the door herself.

First, I find the theory that you can "sneak in" into the Tower - as kkck said - retarded. Given the "magical prowess" of the Tower, this just sounds like a very poor explanation/development.

Second, if Rachel "used" Baam as a loophole - meaning that only Baam and not Rachel opened the door - wouldn't both of them appear in the first floor simultaneously? But that's not the case. Rachel is the first one to appear in the first floor.

Third, everything regarding Headon is a mystery. He is shady as hell and has his own agenda. He may have waited for someone/something and didn't see it in Rachel, thus deeming her as unchosen. Heck, he even may have lied to her in order to manipulate Rachel the way he did. You know, eeverything seems so shady if you read the first floor chapters again after all those years:

• Headon was quite hyped about Baam's arrival
  
• Yet, he gave him a test which would have meant certain death for Baam, if it was not for Yuri and Evan being in the right place at the right time
  
• Suddenly, Headon - who was about to kill Baam - agrees to Yuri helping Baam, even though he had no reason to do so

Well, no because rachel did in fact enter first. First we see her dissolving into the door or whatnot and then bam follows. Granted that the difference in time between their arrival to the first floor and between the difference when crossing the door does not quite seem to add up.

And to add to the points you made, how he then reacted to rachel is just weird. He gave bam was seems like an impossible test meant to kill him but then goes on to shower bam in praise to rachel. As if he was thrilled that bam passed the test. I wonder if there is some guide like chicanery and headon only gives tests irregulars can conceivably pass so to speak....

 

[Demonspeed]

If Rachel was not special she would have been unable to open the door, she would have not found it. I don't think you can sneak in like that.

But compared to the others she doesn't show any kind of extraordinary growth, she does train as a Light Bearer but we know nothing else. I don't remember her using Shinsoo even once. Might be because she is mainly counting on the others to lead her to the top even though she wants to be the heroine. I would have liked to see her go to the Rice Pot, maybe it'll happen later.

 

[kkck]

If Rachel was not special she would have been unable to open the door, she would have not found it. I don't think you can sneak in like that.

But compared to the others she doesn't show any kind of extraordinary growth, she does train as a Light Bearer but we know nothing else. I don't remember her using Shinsoo even once. Might be because she is mainly counting on the others to lead her to the top even though she wants to be the heroine. I would have liked to see her go to the Rice Pot, maybe it'll happen later.

At this point I don't think she has anything to gain from the rice pot. Bam, with his ability to learn shinsoo almost instantly, has spent there months as far as I can tell. And yet, he only barely managed to learn what he was supposed to. What difference would being at the rice pot make for rachel? And the guardian there seems to be looking for certain qualities. Even when zahard got there he spoke of sort of heroic qualities he had so to speak. Rachel lacks all of that.

 

[jjrock01]

I don't think Rachel snuck into the tower. I'm a firm believer that the tower only lets in those it deems worthy.

 

[giovanyL]

Well, no because rachel did in fact enter first. First we see her dissolving into the door or whatnot and then bam follows. Granted that the difference in time between their arrival to the first floor and between the difference when crossing the door does not quite seem to add up.

And to add to the points you made, how he then reacted to rachel is just weird. He gave bam was seems like an impossible test meant to kill him but then goes on to shower bam in praise to rachel. As if he was thrilled that bam passed the test. I wonder if there is some guide like chicanery and headon only gives tests irregulars can conceivably pass so to speak....

Just to add a quick point to your theory... but since rachel go in first that test that bam did wasn't for him was for her and headon just wanted to prove she wasn't worth to be in the tower at least is how i see it

 

[kkck]

Just to add a quick point to your theory... but since rachel go in first that test that bam did wasn't for him was for her and headon just wanted to prove she wasn't worth to be in the tower at least is how i see it

Dunno, I find the idea that he would give someone a test that was meant for another person. For one thing, the test bam took was the same one that had earlier been given to rachel. For another, I find the idea of a specific test for an irregular a bit weird. Headon is guardian, the guy has virtually limitless power so to speak. The guy effectively makes the rules. So a test not being meant for whoever is supposed to take it makes little sense.

 

[THM Nindo]

I don't think she's a normal irregular.

As far as we know, irregular are people that are able to open the door by themselves.
To me it's more like... Baam is an irregular, and Rachel is a stowaway that entered the tower when Baam opened the door.

 

[Venior]

I have been wondering about this for a while.... In the first chapter we see bam running behind rachel. he catches up to her and after a brief talk we see her disappear into what seems to be shiny door on the ground. However many chapters later we see how her meeting with headon went. Headon called her a fake and says she was not the one that opened the door. Then rachel cuts some kind of deal and is allowed to move forward.

So.... Based on what headon says it does not look like rachel actually did open the door. So....... Can we assume she just kinda sneaked in when ban opened it? Because that is somewhat literally what it looks like what makes sense with what headon says overall. Although that the tower can be cheated by loony tunes time chicanery is kinda retarded. Any thoughts?

The way I see it is she's an irregular in the same fashion the ten family leaders are. They're considered irregulars and Garam talks further on this in the coming chapters (no spoilers). The ten families entered when Zahard opened the door, Rachel entered when Viole/ Bam opened the door. I see it as the same fashion.

They weren't selected to enter the Tower, so they're irregular in that fashion.

 

[kkck]

The way I see it is she's an irregular in the same fashion the ten family leaders are. They're considered irregulars and Garam talks further on this in the coming chapters (no spoilers). The ten families entered when Zahard opened the door, Rachel entered when Viole/ Bam opened the door. I see it as the same fashion.

They weren't selected to enter the Tower, so they're irregular in that fashion.

Well, if this is the case it would more or less confirm my idea that rachel kinda sneaked into the tower. However the series has yet to address whether the 10 family heads did anything of the sort. We know they arrived together but we have no reason to think each of them did not individually open the door. More so, I would argue rachel is indeed different from them. Rachel up to this point in the story has yet to show any sort of exceptional skill. She has been shown to be adequate at scheming but that is not a skill which should relate to irregular traits. Irregulars aren't inherently smart, they should be inherently powerful when it comes to shinsoo. Rachel is more like a parasite that clings to those stronger than her to take her up the tower. However she does not evidence a speck of the talent bam has or other irregulars were implied to have.

 

[shaheer]

My recent take on rachel

I dont think the outside is like stars and skies all around. It might be like the tower different atmosphere in diff zone. Not to mention the first chapters seem to give a vibe like a sort of dungen. In which case baam and rachel might have been in the foundation enclave rather than the wider world.

What i wonder is how come rachel is so dumb. Instrad of trying to find a escape route from the cave to the areas other than tower she harboured to get in and then destroy zahard and then climb to the infinite top.

In which case its concieveable she was in tower to begin with and then/thus was abke to reenter.

 

[Jammin]

In light of what we learned in the last chapter. Rachel being an irregular has to have something to do with Arlen. Since Baam was basically left in her care and she's probably been watching over him for a very long time she can't be a normal person right?

Wherever that cave was she must have been in there for an insanely long time. And the way she was thinking about what Arlen wanted...it's almost like she knew her.

I'm thinking something like she was something like a handmaiden of Arlen's who she did something to in order to have her serve as Baam's nanny after Arlen had left. And that's what allowed her to enter the tower as an irregular.

 

[shionoro]

I think similar things.

Rachel was a small fry on the outside world who somehow served whoever Arlen was describing as god of the outside world (or impostered a god to deceive arlen).

And then Rachel snatched the spot in the prophecy as her ticket to get out of the life she led.

 

[shaheer]

Well here is my view on the things that i articulated in a diff thread

I think rachel was Arlenes hand maid or something. Got obsessed with Arlene like many folks get obsessed with the family leaders and felt distraught that it is Bam who is the child and thus the true heir and it is Bam who is the one given the life to return to the tower and the final thing that most likely ticked her off was it was Bam who not only pressed in the tower but went up without any problem while she was slapped off by Headon as a greedy worthless girl.
Not to mention she might blame Bam for death of Arlene if it ever happened which i think it did. For one if Arlene is alive she would lead FUG and Zahard wouldnt be silently napping. he would try to hunt her down to get her into some cage or something. I think Zahard did his research througout the tower with all the arsenal he had along with the aid of the guardians and became sure Arlene is no longer in Tower so got bored and started the princess battle.Then got bored again and then started to hibernate.

Since Rachel knows the prophecy she will try to enact them by herself to sell it to others and to herself and to the one who governs the prophetic future that she is the one.

 

[kkck]

Well here is my view on the things that i articulated in a diff thread

Well, rachel clearly feels a form of envy towards bam.

As for arlene being dead.... I would still say it is a certainty. The implication so far is that the cave effectively was outside the tower. If she was outside the tower then all the forms of immortality that she obtained thanks to the administrators are effectively void which means outside she was nothing but a mere mortal. Considering the sheer amount of time that has gone on since then I would think it is certain that at least old age killed her.

However another crackpot theory: What if rachel killed arlene? Since arlene was a mere mortal it is entirely plausible for rachel to, say, stab her in her sleep. She got jealous at the prospect of bam reviving, then rachel killed arlene and kept bam in the cave. And in her insanity she wished to fulfill arlene's ambition. It would really cement rachel as a colossal bitch that needs to die. Bam has been going on about how rachel was his world to him, how she taught him everything. However the reality would be that rachel is actually the one who took what little bam had and to the best of her ability has tried to take everything else bam had. It would cement her as the ugly little bitch headon called her.

 

[shaheer]

I dont get it where is the option of 'she is a b' ?

However another crackpot theory: What if rachel killed arlene? Since arlene was a mere mortal it is entirely plausible for rachel to, say, stab her in her sleep. She got jealous at the prospect of bam reviving, then rachel killed arlene and kept bam in the cave. And in her insanity she wished to fulfill arlene's ambition. It would really cement rachel as a colossal bitch that needs to die. Bam has been going on about how rachel was his world to him, how she taught him everything. However the reality would be that rachel is actually the one who took what little bam had and to the best of her ability has tried to take everything else bam had. It would cement her as the ugly little bitch headon called her.

I like that theory. But doesnt that make Rachel a bit too powerful i mean its arlene we are talking about one of the strongest chara in so far.