One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[Hannibal Psyche]

As stupid as if I this argument let me just give you another interpretation of easily in that context one more time. Easily could also have meant. He is doing it without practice and has good control of it while in the gear? But your opinion is the only right one even though there’s no evidence. But hey let’s belive zoro has mastered geppo and he was just to lazy to use it to go cut pica. Some ridiculous BS

Of course, you ignored how you just contradicted yourself stating "I said Luffy can just perform it without training" when I never said so - fallacy in other words, but in fact otherwise. Obviously, you didn't read properly or understand properly or both.

Like I said before, your argument is absurd. You're making out like Soru is some Gear 3rd like move, something that's limited to people with the ability to inflate the size of their fists. That's something that not everyone can do, therefore, it's impossible for the vast majority.

Kicking one's feet 10+ times, that's something anyone can do with training, so the idea that Luffy can only perform it because of Gear 2nd is nonsensical when Coby and co. do it without such an ability.

All Blueno stated was that it's easy with Gear 2nd because his body is strong enough, not that it's impossible without it. Even without Gear 2nd, Luffy still possesses a strong body, so the idea that it's impossible for him is nonsensical.

Some things do not require explicit evidence. Your poor rationale here is the sort of rationale that endorses:

• Because Jack has not been seen using Haki, he is unable to use it despite the fact that it's reasonable to assume that he can use it. Using it isn't something specific or limited to certain people due to physical limitations.
• By your absurd logic, I guess Smoothie can't use Hardening because she's not been shown using it. Something that'd be reasonable to assume she can perform.

The Geppou Zoro thing, nonsense. That's something only Rokoshiki users have used, therefore, it's unnecessary to assume Zoro would just it out of the blue. Soru is something most people use besides the Marines. Hell, we saw Katakuri & many other fighters perform Soru, it's a generic move unlike Geppou or Shigan.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Of course, you ignored how you just contradicted yourself stating "I said Luffy can just perform it without training" when I never said so - fallacy in other words, but in fact otherwise. Obviously, you didn't read properly or understand properly or both.

Like I said before, your argument is absurd. You're making out like Soru is some Gear 3rd like move, something that's limited to people with the ability to inflate the size of their fists. That's something that not everyone can do, therefore, it's impossible for the vast majority.

Kicking one's feet 10+ times, that's something anyone can do with training, so the idea that Luffy can only perform it because of Gear 2nd is nonsensical when Coby and co. do it without such an ability.

All Blueno stated was that it's easy with Gear 2nd because his body is strong enough, not that it's impossible without it. Even without Gear 2nd, Luffy still possesses a strong body, so the idea that it's impossible for him is nonsensical.

Some things do not require explicit evidence. Your poor rationale here is the sort of rationale that endorses:

• Because Jack has not been seen using Haki, he is unable to use it despite the fact that it's reasonable to assume that he can use it. Using it isn't something specific or limited to certain people due to physical limitations.
• By your absurd logic, I guess Smoothie can't use Hardening because she's not been shown using it. Something that'd be reasonable to assume she can perform.

The Geppou Zoro thing, nonsense. That's something only Rokoshiki users have used, therefore, it's unnecessary to assume Zoro would just it out of the blue. Soru is something most people use besides the Marines. Hell, we saw Katakuri & many other fighters perform Soru, it's a generic move unlike Geppou or Shigan.

Okay this is where I have to say you have your head stuck where the sun don’t shine cos all your argument with you you never said that I’d liffy trained he could do it. If you’re telling me Luffy normal base form Luffy managed to learn something it takes people months even years to master then you’re just using common sense in the most stupid way. What’s the difference between the time it took coby to learn it and Luffy?? Luffy has like a couple of days if not less coby learnt it over like one or two years.
And tbh your comparison to other users using haki is like saying ussop mastered his coo in like three days or so because that what you’re telling me Luffy did since he saw it in water 7 and got it down by Ennius lobby. Your common sense supports bull sh*t power up. Okay the say nothing you’re right in your mind I’m right in my mind because I simply cba to carry this on.
You are also the master of twisting words, I feel like I’m talking to a girl lol
Saying gear4 has a mech that allows Luffy to fly is like saying G2 gives Luffy the ability to move as like soru users but you won’t see this so I’ll just tell you you’re right just to make you happy.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Okay this is where I have to say you have your head stuck where the sun don’t shine cos all your argument with you you never said that I’d liffy trained he could do it.

Then you're being delusional because I did say so, lol.

Your implication is simply nonsensical. Coby doesn't possess Gear 2nd, Garp doesn't, VA do not, yet they use Soru. They trained to use these techniques, therefore, they can easily perform it. Luffy only performs it easily due to the fact his body is enhanced to the point that he doesn't need to be trained to perform it. In base, he'd likely have to practice it like everyone else and he's likely able to perform it but not as easily as he does in Gear 2nd was was stated, but it seems this is too difficult for you to fathom.

Maybe you don't know train and practice mean the same thing.

Saying gear4 has a mech that allows Luffy to fly is like saying G2 gives Luffy the ability to move as like soru users but you won’t see this so I’ll just tell you you’re right just to make you happy.

Then you awfully and absolutely failed to understand what I said. All gears use a certain mechanism.

1. 2nd uses increased blood flow which enhances physical abilities.
2. 3rd uses air in bones.
3. 4th uses air in muscles which literally makes him a balloon, this his ability to literally fly using soru.

Luffy isn't moving like Soru users in Gear 2nd, he is using Soru. Fact is, the comical idea that Soru is only possible with Gear 2nd is contradicted by the fact people incapable of using Gear 2nd perform Soru. Luffy not performing it in base doesn't mean he can't do it, it can only mean he does it in Gear 2nd because it's easier or he needs to train, but it's not impossible which you clearly can't grasp despite how linear it is.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Then you're being delusional because I did say so, lol.



Maybe you don't know train and practice mean the same thing.



Then you awfully and absolutely failed to understand what I said. All gears use a certain mechanism.

1. 2nd uses increased blood flow which enhances physical abilities.
2. 3rd uses air in bones.
3. 4th uses air in muscles which literally makes him a balloon, this his ability to literally fly using soru.

Luffy isn't moving like Soru users in Gear 2nd, he is using Soru. Fact is, the comical idea that Soru is only possible with Gear 2nd is contradicted by the fact people incapable of using Gear 2nd perform Soru. Luffy not performing it in base doesn't mean he can't do it, it can only mean he does it in Gear 2nd because it's easier or he needs to train, but it's not impossible which you clearly can't grasp despite how linear it is.

You argue like you don’t understand me. The gear two thing applies to Luffy because he’s rubber, so going G2 to achieve soru is a shortcut, except if you really believe he mastered a move people take months/years to master in days then you do that but it’s obvious that he couldn’t just have picked it up. By enhanced capabilities you mean speed and power. So what have I been saying all along. Base Luffy lacks the speed to tap the floor 10x in an instant, because he hasn’t trained himself to do so in base. However in G2 he easily moves at that speed because his speed is enhanced.
Oh you say train and practice.... but you want to believe Luffy mastered a moved it took XP9 guy their whole childhood and teeenage years to train for three day to master?without taking a shortcut ? That’s bullshit.
Also I don’t wanna get into the flying mechanics but I think Luffy is in deed kicking the air which is similar to Sanji walking on air hence why Oda draw the boom effect and trail. Because that’s what happens when you’re capable of such feat. But obviously we all have different opinions on G4 so I’ll leave you to believe what you want.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

except if you really believe he mastered a move people take months/years to master in days then you do that but it’s obvious that he couldn’t just have picked it up

What did you say?

So what have I been saying all along. Base Luffy lacks the speed to tap the floor 10x in an instant, because he hasn’t trained himself to do so in base. However in G2 he easily moves at that speed because his speed is enhanced.

Nope, you didn't say that, you flat out made out like it was impossible except in Gear 2nd. Your argument was unequivocally unreasonable.

Base Luffy lacks the speed to tap the floor 10x in an instant, because he hasn’t trained himself to do so in base. However in G2 he easily moves at that speed because his speed is enhanced.

Wrong, he's strong and fast in base. It's much more likely a case to do with training. Like Blueno said, he said he EASILY performs it in Gear 2nd, not that it's impossible outside of it.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

What did you say?

I meant base Luffy, but no he didn’t he took a shortcut with his gear.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2017 ---

ope, you didn't say that, you flat out made out like it was impossible except in Gear 2nd. Your argument was unequivocally unreasonable.

If you look at one of my replies I said after timeskip he’s probably capable of doing it but even still the times we’ve seen him do it he was in G2(vs pacifista and Katakuri are the ones I can remember).
You bringing up the haki stuff btw, shouldn’t Luffy be conserving energy like he conserves haki?? So why go to G2 to use soru when you can do it in base form?? Very stupid innit. And yet he conserves his haki by only applying it on body parts he needs it for. So clearly he’s not capable of soru in base form.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017 ---

Wrong, he's strong and fast in base. It's much more likely a case to do with training. Like Blueno said, he said he EASILY performs it in Gear 2nd, not that it's impossible outside of it.

But what have I been saying all along?? Base Luffy can’t do it because he hasn’t trained for it properly. Coby can do it because he trained for it. He couldn’t take short cut like Luffy because not everyone is rubber. Why is it so hard to understand??

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I meant base Luffy, but no he didn’t he took a shortcut with his gear.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2017 ---

If you look at one of my replies I said after timeskip he’s probably capable of doing it but even still the times we’ve seen him do it he was in G2(vs pacifista and Katakuri are the ones I can remember).
You bringing up the haki stuff btw, shouldn’t Luffy be conserving energy like he conserves haki?? So why go to G2 to use soru when you can do it in base form?? Very stupid innit. And yet he conserves his haki by only applying it on body parts he needs it for. So clearly he’s not capable of soru in base form.

What's stupid is the fact you stated that he couldn't do it without Gear 2nd like it's some special ability only possible by those possessing Gear 2nd. I mean in your previous statement, you laughable stated that he couldn't use Soru perfectly when the Manga stated otherwise.

Pre-skip or not is absolutely irrelevant. All it is , is hitting the ground 10+ times. In Gear 2nd, he performs it easily. In base, you can't state he can't perform when all it is, is a basic skill requiring practice and a strong body which he possesses. Your argument is pointless.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017 ---

But what have I been saying all along?? Base Luffy can’t do it because he hasn’t trained for it properly.

You didn't say this, you made out like Gear 2nd is the only mechanic that allows for this to be performed. He can perform it "EASILY" assuming you know what that word is while in Gear 2nd, so why it's so hard for you to comprehend it's probably doable with no as much ease, is a baseless assumption on your part and then you asked for "evidence" which was absurd when something are just reasonable. Your argument was void of logical consistency or a functioning logic.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

What's stupid is the fact you stated that he couldn't do it without Gear 2nd like it's some special ability only possible by those possessing Gear 2nd. I mean in your previous statement, you laughable stated that he couldn't use Soru perfectly when the Manga stated otherwise.

Pre-skip or not is absolutely irrelevant. All it is , is hitting the ground 10+ times. In Gear 2nd, he performs it easily. In base, you can't state he can't perform when all it is, is a basic skill requiring practice and a strong body which he possesses. Your argument is pointless.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017 ---

You didn't say this, you made out like Gear 2nd is the only mechanic that allows for this to be performed. He can perform it "EASILY" assuming you know what that word is while in Gear 2nd, so why it's so hard for you to comprehend it's probably doable with no as much ease, is a baseless assumption on your part and then you asked for "evidence" which was absurd when something are just reasonable. Your argument was void of logical consistency or a functioning logic.

I’ve said so many times now that Luffy took a short cut to learning soru with G2. Its very dumb to actually think I’d think like that but given that you twist words a lot I’m not surprised. In his base form he can’t use it at all. But first did I tell you lucci had gear 2?? Or did I say blueno had G2?? No theses guys trained for rokushiki since they were young so no need for gear 2. Andnim reapeating for the millionth time Luffy took a short cut to using the ability. His base form is not capable of using it. To do it in base form he needs to train for it. If he can do t in base for, why did he use G2 against pacifista?? Because he’s not trained for it in his base form? Your problem is assuming stuff, you generalise things. Because I said Luffy needed G2 you automatically assumed I meant blueno and the people capable of using shave needed G2 which is the stupidest assumption you’ve made since this discussion. Which is why I cba because you’re just reaching.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

His base form is not capable of using it. To do it in base form he needs to train for it.

His statement makes out like it is impossible to perform in base which is what I'm stating is wrong

Yes my statement was as you said but I’m choosing to agree to disagree

Like I said, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Changing your argument when it suits you.

1. First, you claimed that Luffy didn't master Soru when Blueno in fact said he did as he executed it perfectly. Manga proved you wrong by a statement.

Then now, you contradict yourself after implying it's impossible in base, but requires practice? Maybe you don't know what impossible means. Something impossible cannot be trained to perform. Only possible things can be at the very least trained for in order to execute.

Okay so base form Luffy in the fight was using soru before going G2?? No, all he did was dodge and counter. Compared to when he went G2. That’s when blueno mentioned it. So obviously that was when he used it, because that was when it was possible for him to.
Bare in mind Luffy complained about using too much time here so he’d have used soru in his base form to try and end the fight quickly

This is the nonsense you spouted.

This is what the Manga says, it says "easily", a word you seemingly can't comprehend. The fact he said easily on implies he'd be less efficient at it in base, not that it's impossible as your statements have implied and sometimes contradicted because you can't even keep your argument consistent.

With this way of thinking you have, when someone says it's easy to run a marathon with shoes on, you'd interpret this as it's impossible to run a marathon without shoes. Easy just implies the degree of effort needed to perform a task. It doesn't make it impossible.

And Luffy didn't need Soru in his base to defeat Blueno quickly, he needed Gear 2nd. It seems you can't even distinguish the difference between Soru and Gear 2nd. Soru is merely a movement technique; Gear 2nd is a boost in power and strength. Luffy never complained about using Soru, but about Gear 2nd, you clearly have it backwards.

Being that the word easy is not understood by yourself, you should look it up. Gear 2nd makes it easy, doesn't mean it can't be performed in base. The fact that it's easy in Gear 2nd only suggests it'd be harder to pull off in base.

 

[Organizized]

Readers and enthusiasts of One Piece!

In case you have missed it, there is a war going on. A war between manga, where each battle is fiercer than the next.

Our last opponent was literally a Monster, but we slew it. Yet our current opponent's armies are much greater in numbers, so we need your help. Rally the troops. Let us beat this pretender and show them what a manga about nakama and adventure truly is.

Bring your biggest artillery of arguments. Find the greatest color spreads. Convince the people who still doubt that One Piece deserves to be the most popular manga in the world. And even if you don't want to join in the fierce battle, do your part and vote. We are all nakama, connected by One Piece, and together we can achieve our dream. We're gonna be the Manga King!

Enough talk. Head over to the One Piece vs. Fairy Tail thread. Make the right choice. Thank you.

(And mods, in case I'm not allowed to campaign here, just delete this post. I didn't find it in the rules, though.)

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I really enjoyed your explanation on Mihawk @Hannibal Psyche. I know it's a little off topic but do you happen to have thoughts about
1. Why Ace is such a weak commander? The guy could even use haki? Hardening?
2. White beard is shown using hardening?
3. How could soon-to-be-yonko Shanks lose an arm to a sea monster?

Thanks and no problem.

If you read my posts the page before this, Oda revealed on Twitter through Sandman_AP who translates Japanese raws and OP related magazines that Ace was a Haki user. He defeated a Vice Admiral with pure strength without using the mera mera no mi.

Pre-skip we see Haki used but not Hardening. I believe the reason is because since Oda hadn’t explained Haki to the SHs, so even if others used Hardening, Luffy couldn’t discern it. After the skip, we start seeing Hardening because Luffy can discern it. We learn and see through the SHs.

Shanks is human. He has extraordinary strength. He is still susceptible to normal attacks unless he uses Haki to defend. Shanks allowed the seaking to take his arm as proof he believes Luffy will be Pirate King. All humans in One Piece can be killed with weak weapons no matter how strong; strength and durability are not necessarily the same thing. Just like Shanks lost arm to teeth, even Roger was stabbed by normal blades. Only few characters have abnormally hard bodies like Kaido, Big mom and Bobby funk whose body is so naturally hard, a blade imbued with Haki broke with him defending without Haki in chapter 714 I believe.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

New Record!!

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20171016-00000316-oric-ent

More than 430M volume copies sold worldwide.

 

[Fox666]

Only few characters have abnormally hard bodies like Kaido, Big mom and Bobby funk whose body is so naturally hard, a blade imbued with Haki broke with him defending without Haki in chapter 714 I believe.

Considering Big Mom can loose her durability when suffering from mental stress, wouldn't it be the result of her Haki?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Considering Big Mom can loose her durability when suffering from mental stress, wouldn't it be the result of her Haki?

Armament Haki is not an infinite resource, it's finite as has been showcased in previous chapters. It could be that this mental breakdown. No one can keep up Armament Haki forever. It's a weird reaction, but I guess it must be some sort of exaggerated reaction. Maybe Oda will elaborate in future.

 

[Fox666]

No one can keep up Armament Haki forever.

I don't think the series has established such limits.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't think the series has established such limits.

It has.

Cavedish and Law stated that Luffy was wasting haki - can't waste something that's infinite and it's the only thing that explains why Hardened Armament is used sparingly except it's a stamina thing.

Also, Joker asked Luffy if his Haki has returned yet which implies Haki can deplete. It's why Luffy needed 10 minutes to regain his Armament.

 

[Fox666]

In Luffy's case, sure.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

In Luffy's case, sure.

That's not how the Manga works, everything is consistent. DFs all follow the same principles, Haki follows the same principles; mechanics don't change just because of a character. This manga is based purely on consistency.

So, it's really not a case of it being specific to Luffy, it's a general fact.

As I said, Law and Cavendish said he's wasting Haki. Even Joker asked if he's Haki was back, so it's not something unique to Luffy. Haki is not infinite.Therefore, since they can assess that he's using too much Haki, it means they're aware that Haki can be wasted; only things that are finite can be wasted. It also explains why people do not use Hardening often but intermittently.

If Haki was only finite for Luffy which makes absolutely no sense, then every character would have Hardened Armament (assuming they can use it) Up at all times and it's used sparingly and only when necessary which implies otherwise.

 

[Fox666]

Big Mom is not "every character".

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Big Mom is not "every character".

Doesn't matter if she's not. Fundamental facts don't change just because it's Big Mom, that's not how the Manga works.

Just because it's "Big Mom" doesn't mean seastone won't affect her.

Facts and principles don't change for characters, Manga simply doesn't work like that.

And if you're playing on semantics, she's not every character, she's just 1 character out of many characters.