One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[roggie]

I was just wondering, can Luffy become PK with the age of 19? Will he? I just feel it would seem a little strange, a little Narutesque.
For someone so young, far from the peak of his strength, lacking maturity to play this pivotal role...
But we already had a time skip so, I just don't know

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

As for Marco , until the time situtation wasnt completely against him (i.e. till the time he need not worry and run to save his captain coz he got a heart attack)
he was on a even footing against admirals .
He even kicked Kizaru back into the wall. Unless we get to see him fight without any interruption against an admiral till the end, until that time we cant say what his level is exactly.

Wouldn't call it even footing. So he kicked Aokiji, anyone with Haki could have done that, even Jozu hit Aokiji too. The fact Marco's Haki was too weak to hurt Akainu is proof he's not as powerful. It took the entire fleet + Marco to suppress Akainu, and they still failed. Aokji didn't need a fleet to take on Akainu and I doubt Kizaru would either. We saw him fight desperately to save Ace, he's not up there with the Admirals.

 

[Windfall Island]

Wouldn't call it even footing. So he kicked Aokiji, anyone with Haki could have done that, even Jozu hit Aokiji too. The fact Marco's Haki was too weak to hurt Akainu is proof he's not as powerful. It took the entire fleet + Marco to suppress Akainu, and they still failed. Aokji didn't need a fleet to take on Akainu and I doubt Kizaru would either. We saw him fight desperately to save Ace, he's not up there with the Admirals.

Akainu is definitely the strongest out there.
Marco and Kizaru looked on an equal footing to me.
We will get to see more Marco action on Wano and i think untill he is allowed to fight without any physical or mental handicap , i'll refrain from saying where exactly does he stand .(definitely below akainu , aokiji but might be very close to atleast kizaru from what was shown .)

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Akainu is definitely the strongest out there.
Marco and Kizaru looked on an equal footing to me.
We will get to see more Marco action on Wano and i think untill he is allowed to fight without any physical or mental handicap , i'll refrain from saying where exactly does he stand .(definitely below akainu , aokiji but might be very close to atleast kizaru from what was shown .)

Kizaru and Marco only exchanged 1 or 2 attacks, not enough to claim characters as equal. It's like looking at Luffy grab Katakuri and claiming them equals. We'd have been profoundly wrong. Jozu attacked Aokiji once and made him bleed; Aokii attacked Jozu once and defeated him.

If Akainu needed 10 days to defeat Aokiji, it's only likely they're equal in strength. Can't see why Kziaru would be any weaker.

As for mental weakness, I don't think that's valid. These are veterans. They're just plain weaker if it takes an entire fleet to take on 1 individual.

In fact. Only reason Marco was a problem was his ability to heal and ability to fly. He was just a tactical annoyance more than anything. His strength isn't up there.

 

[silentjoker37]

Kizaru and Marco only exchanged 1 or 2 attacks, not enough to claim characters as equal. It's like looking at Luffy grab Katakuri and claiming them equals. We'd have been profoundly wrong. Jozu attacked Aokiji once and made him bleed; Aokii attacked Jozu once and defeated him.

If Akainu needed 10 days to defeat Aokiji, it's only likely they're equal in strength. Can't see why Kziaru would be any weaker.

As for mental weakness, I don't think that's valid. These are veterans. They're just plain weaker if it takes an entire fleet to take on 1 individual.

In fact. Only reason Marco was a problem was his ability to heal and ability to fly. He was just a tactical annoyance more than anything. His strength isn't up there.

I agree with you that all the admirals are on the same level of strength. Marco, clearly, isn't as strong as the admirals based on what we've seen so far, but I highly doubt that we have seen the full extent of Marco's strength. The White beard pirates' objective was to save Ace, so Marco only dealt with his opponents until they wouldn't be a nuisance , he didn't devote to any single battle. His attention was spread across the battlefield because he was acting the tactician to act to the Whitebeard's advantage. Marco saved Luffy from Aokiji, protected Whitebeard from Kizaru's lasers, and fought Akainu when it was necessary.

On another topic I was thinking about if Sanji already had CoO haki pre time skip because it would explain multiple situations. Situations like how Sanji predicted Enel's facial expression of utter defeat, or know Abasolom had an invisible long distance weapon, or anticipate a lot of Jabra's attacks despite being slower and weaker.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I agree with you that all the admirals are on the same level of strength. Marco, clearly, isn't as strong as the admirals based on what we've seen so far, but I highly doubt that we have seen the full extent of Marco's strength. The White beard pirates' objective was to save Ace, so Marco only dealt with his opponents until they wouldn't be a nuisance , he didn't devote to any single battle. His attention was spread across the battlefield because he was acting the tactician to act to the Whitebeard's advantage. Marco saved Luffy from Aokiji, protected Whitebeard from Kizaru's lasers, and fought Akainu when it was necessary.

On another topic I was thinking about if Sanji already had CoO haki pre time skip because it would explain multiple situations. Situations like how Sanji predicted Enel's facial expression of utter defeat, or know Abasolom had an invisible long distance weapon, or anticipate a lot of Jabra's attacks despite being slower and weaker.

The way I see it, the best time to really showcase what you're made of is in the heat of the moment. Marco did that to me implying that's the best he could do. That's why I don't think he's stronger than what we saw. They were desperate, wanted to win, and I can't imagine how they wouldn't have put their best foot forward when they're veterans.

I also doubt Sanji knew CoO pre-skip. I'd think there'd have been hints or straight up allusions to it like when we saw Luffy use CoC before Marineford multiple times. I think that was just Sanji showcasing his natural strengths besides Haki.

 

[silentjoker37]

The way I see it, the best time to really showcase what you're made of is in the heat of the moment. Marco did that to me implying that's the best he could do. That's why I don't think he's stronger than what we saw. They were desperate, wanted to win, and I can't imagine how they wouldn't have put their best foot forward when they're veterans.

I also doubt Sanji knew CoO pre-skip. I'd think there'd have been hints or straight up allusions to it like when we saw Luffy use CoC before Marineford multiple times. I think that was just Sanji showcasing his natural strengths besides Haki.

At this point I can't understand how Sanji obtained CoO post time skip because Ivankou didn't really teach Sanji anything. First It doesn't match with Ivankou's philosophy. Ivankou doesn't really believe in doing anything to help the person except by "draw out their own will to live." Ivankous never once stated that he would teach Sanji anything but told Sanji to steal the Newkama recipes.

With Luffy and Zoro, there is concrete evidence of them learning haki through flashbacks from their teachers, but Ivankou doesn't display any skill in haki. If Sanji learned CoO then he must have learned from Gan Fall as mantra was explained, aka CoO haki, in Chapter 257. Sanji asked Gan Fall about mantra so Sanji had some interest in what it was. This wouldn't be far to say Sanji would want to learn the skill if the opportunity present itself.

It just bothers me that we know when Sanji learned Skywalk, Diable Jambe, and his fighting technique, but Sanji's CoO origin is mystery.

 

[Organizized]

At this point I can't understand how Sanji obtained CoO post time skip because Ivankou didn't really teach Sanji anything. First It doesn't match with Ivankou's philosophy.

With Luffy and Zoro, there is concrete evidence of them learning haki through flashbacks from their teachers, but Ivankou doesn't display any skill in haki. If Sanji learned CoO then he learned from Gan Fall as mantra was explained, aka CoO haki, in Chapter 257.

It just bothers me that we know how Sanji learned Skywalk, Diable Jambe, and his fighting technique, but Sanji's CoO origin is mystery to me.

What we know of Sanji’s training on Kamabakka is that he had to steal 99 recipes from as many Newkama Kenpo masters, whilst day and night being hunted by all the Newkama on the island. I think that’s quite the sufficient situation for honing your CoO, to be honest. If he wasn’t 100% attentive and foreseeing, he’d be caught and dressed in a pretty dress (his worst nightmare).

Haki doesn’t have to be taught, really. Usopp sort of “awakened” his CoO when he truly needed to on Dressrosa so Sanji most likely did the same.

 

[silentjoker37]

What we know of Sanji’s training on Kamabakka is that he had to steal 99 recipes from as many Newkama Kenpo masters, whilst day and night being hunted by all the Newkama on the island. I think that’s quite the sufficient situation for honing your CoO, to be honest. If he wasn’t 100% attentive and foreseeing, he’d be caught and dressed in a pretty dress (his worst nightmare).

Haki doesn’t have to be taught, really. Usopp sort of “awakened” his CoO when he truly needed to on Dressrosa so Sanji most likely did the same.

Sanji would need to learn CoO first before he could hone it. If I wanted to train my flying ability then I would need to learn how to fly first before how I can use it. Rayleigh did say that most people go through their entire lives without awakening it. This statement just shows how rare awakening haki is without a teacher. Usopp just happens to one of those rare cases, but it doesn't mean that applies for Sanji.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

At this point I can't understand how Sanji obtained CoO post time skip because Ivankou didn't really teach Sanji anything. First It doesn't match with Ivankou's philosophy. Ivankou doesn't really believe in doing anything to help the person except by "draw out their own will to live." Ivankous never once stated that he would teach Sanji anything but told Sanji to steal the Newkama recipes.

With Luffy and Zoro, there is concrete evidence of them learning haki through flashbacks from their teachers, but Ivankou doesn't display any skill in haki. If Sanji learned CoO then he must have learned from Gan Fall as mantra was explained, aka CoO haki, in Chapter 257. Sanji asked Gan Fall about mantra so Sanji had some interest in what it was. This wouldn't be far to say Sanji would want to learn the skill if the opportunity present itself.

It just bothers me that we know when Sanji learned Skywalk, Diable Jambe, and his fighting technique, but Sanji's CoO origin is mystery.

It can be Awakened by force in desperate situations like we saw for Usopp & Coby or intense fighting situations like we saw between Luffy and Mihawk. Or Ivankov just taught him. I don't think we need a flashback for that personally, I think it's just something we can assume because it's reasonable.

 

[Organizized]

YonkouProductiona tweeted this (but it seems to be originally from sandman @ apforums)

Still hate the idea of One Piece live action Hollywood series...

The other piece of information is more interesting. I can’t really tell if they’re talking about an upcoming One Piece chapter (like the climax of the arc or something) but they way it’s phrased kinda makes it sound like it’s some other manga , like a one-shot or something..

Anyway, I should’ve learned by now not to believe in editor hype.. but still worth sharing, I thought.

 

[silentjoker37]

It can be Awakened by force in desperate situations like we saw for Usopp & Coby or intense fighting situations like we saw between Luffy and Mihawk. Or Ivankov just taught him. I don't think we need a flashback for that personally, I think it's just something we can assume because it's reasonable.

Sanji's actions are all too well timed to be simple coincidence or just good anticipation skills.

Sanji successful prediction of Enel's facial expression.

then we see Sanji get it right

Sanji's well timed attack against Jabra in soru form. Even if Sanji has good anticipation it shouldn't have been successful against Jabra's soru unless he knew it coming.

Sanji even changes his attack midway and target attack area as if he knew tekkai was coming.

Sanji's anticipated Abasolom's attack just right before it happen requires just perfect timing and anticipation, a dodge would have a lot easier.

Even Abasolom was surprised to this level of anticipation and timing to remark if Sanji knew what is going happen in the panel afterwards.

 

[Organizized]

Sanji's actions are all too well timed to be simple coincidence or just good anticipation skills.

Sanji successful prediction of Enel's facial expression.

then we see Sanji get it right

This is just him being cocky and confident though, isn’t it?

Even Abasolom was surprised to this level of anticipation and timing to remark if Sanji knew what is going happen in the panel afterwards.

And I simply can’t read this in any other way than him meaning “look at that power, do you realize the damage I can do to you?”

Other than that I agree, Sanji has already shown examples of using CoO unconsciously pre-time skip. Which is another reason why I think was simply able to hone his skills on Kamabakka, and learn by watching other proficient haki users, rather than having to “awaken” anything.

As for what Rayleigh said about most people never awakening their haki, I take that as being said in the same way as “only 1 in several million have Conqueror’s Haki”. It doesn’t mean we see several million characters for each time we see someone with CoQ, far from it; we’ve seen almost too many with the power for that statement to even be believable.
So even if most people are said to never awaken their haki because it’s not easy to do, that doesn’t mean Usopp has to be an exceptional case. Sanji was put in a state of being constantly chased by a whole island’s population, while at the same time trying to overcome near 100 really strong people. Everything points to him having succeeded in doing so, and I can’t see how he would do that without gradually strengthening his CoO. And I don’t see Ivankov teaching him anything before he actually succeeded in his task at least.

I could be wrong of course and Iva did teach him haki after he successfully finished his stealing of the recipes, but even if he did I’d like to think he did more of a “Rayleigh thing” and explain what it really was that he’d been using all along. I can see him teaching Sanji about Armament after seeing Sanji’s proficient CoO. But I’ll always prefer the thought of Sanji “learning” and improving his CoO by himself.

 

[Vizard]

Summary for Oda's interview in "Super Kabuki 2 ONE PIECE Grand Live" book released in Japan on November 11th.

- Oda revealed it will take another 1-2 years for ONE PIECE to enter Wano arc. He also says Wano arc will include an episode about Ace.

- Audience sometimes ask Oda about foreshadowing via fan letters, which makes him think, "OMG! I haven't mentioned it yet!"
When audience ask him, "What are the name of this Luffy's move based on, he searches it on OP fansite. (Similar statement was
found in his author comment in chapter 422 in 2006.) Oda feels as if him and his audience are working together to create ONE PIECE.

- The sound effect "BOOM/DON" (ドン) in ONE PIECE is based on Japanese drums as seen in highlight scenes in Jidaigeki.
(ex. )

- Oda came up with the idea of Marineford Summit War long ago.

- Oda says it's hard to talk about justice through Luffy's mouth since he is a pirate.
So, Oda just puts a simple conclusion that the opposite side of justice is another justice. Oda says it's one of the main themes of ONE PIECE.

- Oda says ONE PIECE has many flashback scenes as opposed to traditional Shonen mangas which didn't show much detailed backstories of characters.
Oda thinks there are too many mangas out there these days which handles flashbacks.

- Oda's effort for ONE PIECE is divided into drawings (40%) and story (60%).

- Oda says the characteristics of islands in each arc are pretty different so that audience don't get bored.
He also says that the personality of Luffy never changes. According to Oda, now that audience have fully grasped Luffy's personality,
they sometimes complain even when Oda intentionally let Luffy do something unlike him.

- Oda decided to make Luffy's design simple as possible as he could when he started OP since he thought the designs of other characters would gradually become more complicated .

- The fundamental of ONE PIECE is that people help others desperately. Oda believes everyone loves this kind of story.

- Oda already has the idea of how ONE PIECE will end ever since the first chapter. According to another interview in 2012,
Oda said the final arc will be so amazing that it will make Marineford War arc look like nothing.

Spoiler

Source: sandman (AP)

 

[Farfalla]

Hello! The preparations for the Winter Art Contest 2017 have started!
Check it out (by clicking on the banner) and join us^^​

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Tbh I don’t remember Sengoku and Chinjao saying Ace was most likely to be PK but I could have just missed it. Either way, potential doesn’t equal current strength. I don’t think people are saying Ace didn’t have potential just that he didn’t have that many impressive feats compared to some other characters. His biggest were drawing with Jinbei by the water. Impressive, but the strongest character he beat was a VA.

I think it’s reasonable for people to acknowledge his potential and strength but still believe he wasn’t top commander tier. It’s fair to assume that Marco and Kaya are probably stronger than Ace was when he died. That’s no disrespect to Ace but respect to them.

Those people could be wrong and maybe Ace is just as strong, but people have support for either position

Sengoku says it here.

Spoiler

Chinjao says it here.

Spoiler

We can't say a VA was the strongest that Ace defeated, it's the known strongest that we know of to date because very little of his life was revealed. Before he reached Sabaody, or when, he obtained Armament and defeated a Vice Admiral. Went on to take on Jinbei and even Whitebeard. While he was in the New World, he'd made a name for himself.

Why is it Chinjao didn't acknowledge any of the currently known Pirates, but Ace? Can't really just put up a potential King without there being hint and at least have showcased something. There are countless Pirates at sea, yet, even after Ace is dead, he deemed only Ace and Blackbeard as the real potentials as Pirate King? Everyone else was not really given a chance.

As for impressive feats, it's also because Blackbeard is so underrated. Ace was fighting against the best of the best. Ace is the only Pirate that have been truly feared as potential and bar his potential, has actually been acknowledged. Even now, only a few really view Luffy as a threat and that speaks volumes of Ace's power. A lot of hints regarding his power, but when you get defeated by the most powerful, it's easy for his strength to go unseen.

 

[Beagopa]

Sengoku says it here.

Spoiler

Chinjao says it here.

Spoiler

We can't say a VA was the strongest that Ace defeated, it's the known strongest that we know of to date because very little of his life was revealed. Before he reached Sabaody, or when, he obtained Armament and defeated a Vice Admiral. Went on to take on Jinbei and even Whitebeard. While he was in the New World, he'd made a name for himself.

Why is it Chinjao didn't acknowledge any of the currently known Pirates, but Ace? Can't really just put up a potential King without there being hint and at least have showcased something. There are countless Pirates at sea, yet, even after Ace is dead, he deemed only Ace and Blackbeard as the real potentials as Pirate King? Everyone else was not really given a chance.

As for impressive feats, it's also because Blackbeard is so underrated. Ace was fighting against the best of the best. Ace is the only Pirate that have been truly feared as potential and bar his potential, has actually been acknowledged. Even now, only a few really view Luffy as a threat and that speaks volumes of Ace's power. A lot of hints regarding his power, but when you get defeated by the most powerful, it's easy for his strength to go unseen.

I think people can become overly committed to their desire for their favorite character to be the best but for the most part people’s estimates of a character are reasonable. It is all speculation so there is some wriggle room.

If we objectively estimate a characters strength based on what is confirmed and not based on our theories or hunches then most people debating have support on either side.

Take B.B. for instance. He is a Yonko. He isn’t being underestimated per se if people are debating his strength in comparison to other Yonko characters. If people say BM is stronger and then someone else says B.B. is stronger, neither person is without support. Both are Yonko and are safe to assume are at the top tier of strength.

Ace on the other hand we can say is at least VA level but not Yonko level.

The syringe opponent we KNOW he beat is a VA. VAs also have a big range of strength between the weakest and strongest.

We also know Ace was easily beaten by a half asleep WB and had an extended battle with B.B. Ace lost to the two Yonko level characters he fought so we know he wasn’t at their level.

We also know he was a Yonko commander. I don’t think it’s underestimating the guy in comparison to other Yonko commanders. There is a healthy form of debate where people ponder who is strongest among Ace, current Luffy, and Cracker as they are all Yonko commander level.

Now if people were debating who is stronger between Ace and Sanji, then I would say Ace is being underestimated.

People can have different takes and assessments without them being unreasonable or underestimating a character.

I think most everyone agrees B.B. is one of the strongest characters in the series and accurately place Ace strength wise within a reasonable degree of error. Especially because as is made clear in those chapters, Ace never lived long enough to fulfill his potential. He was stomped out before his time. His strength at the time of his death and the strength level he would have reached given time are different things.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I think people can become overly committed to their desire for their favorite character to be the best but for the most part people’s estimates of a character are reasonable. It is all speculation so there is some wriggle room.

If we objectively estimate a characters strength based on what is confirmed and not based on our theories or hunches then most people debating have support on either side.

Take B.B. for instance. He is a Yonko. He isn’t being underestimated per se if people are debating his strength in comparison to other Yonko characters. If people say BM is stronger and then someone else says B.B. is stronger, neither person is without support. Both are Yonko and are safe to assume are at the top tier of strength.

Ace on the other hand we can say is at least VA level but not Yonko level.

The syringe opponent we KNOW he beat is a VA. VAs also have a big range of strength between the weakest and strongest.

We also know Ace was easily beaten by a half asleep WB and had an extended battle with B.B. Ace lost to the two Yonko level characters he fought so we know he wasn’t at their level.

We also know he was a Yonko commander. I don’t think it’s underestimating the guy in comparison to other Yonko commanders. There is a healthy form of debate where people ponder who is strongest among Ace, current Luffy, and Cracker as they are all Yonko commander level.

Now if people were debating who is stronger between Ace and Sanji, then I would say Ace is being underestimated.

People can have different takes and assessments without them being unreasonable or underestimating a character.

I think most everyone agrees B.B. is one of the strongest characters in the series and accurately place Ace strength wise within a reasonable degree of error. Especially because as is made clear in those chapters, Ace never lived long enough to fulfill his potential. He was stomped out before his time. His strength at the time of his death and the strength level he would have reached given time are different things.

Ace has been underrated despite all the facts. People for years didn't believe he had Haki despite the fact he'd been a New World Pirate for years which was unreasonable. Happy to believer every other commander had it, but Ace & Blackbeard didn't which is ridiculous.

Ace is beyond the strength of a regular Vice Admiral at the very least. In his first year, he defeated a VA, something not even Luffy could do. Given the fact that Ace, Sabo and Luffy have extreme grow rates, it's only reasonable to assume he was high ranked.

The point is he was the only one besides Blackbeard who was seen as real threats in regards to becoming Pirate King bar the Emperors. That alone automatically indicates that he's outstanding.

You can't be said to not have shown any potential without exhibiting strength at the very least, if Sengoku, and Chinjao rated them so highly. Sengoku and co. never said the same regarding Luffy despite his feats. or any other pirates despite how strong they were. It's not an acknowledgement easily gained if Blackbeard is only gaining that for taking out Ace and then Marco and co. to become an Emperor.

If you also read what Chinjao said, he based Blackbeard's prospects as the future PK based on he strength he displayed. Watch what he said regarding Luffy? He said if you can only "match" me in my current state, then you don't have potential to be PK. Only makes sense that Ace proved himself via his strength in order to be assessed as a potential because he was powerful. There are many other powerful Pirates, but only Ace & Blackbeard stood out. Not 10 different potentials.

The fact that he had a Bounty value of 550m further proves exactly what I stated earlier. 3 years to accumulate that is quite the feat.

As Blackbeard also said, it's been a while since you've been hit. Being a Logia doesn't guarantee not being hit especially by Haki users and more so as he's stationed in the New World. Could very well imply he had top-notch abilities in evading damage like Katakuri. We really do not know. Nonetheless, to defeat a VA before even getting to the New World, and given the growth rate he had especially as he was a WB Pirate and Pirate for an entirety of 2 years, it's very likely his strength is underestimated. There might not be many acknowledged feats. but the people he tangoed with didn't have easy times. He's definitely underestimated.

 

[Beagopa]

Ace has been underrated despite all the facts. People for years didn't believe he had Haki despite the fact he'd been a New World Pirate for years which was unreasonable. Happy to believer every other commander had it, but Ace & Blackbeard didn't which is ridiculous.

Ace is beyond the strength of a regular Vice Admiral at the very least. In his first year, he defeated a VA, something not even Luffy could do. Given the fact that Ace, Sabo and Luffy have extreme grow rates, it's only reasonable to assume he was high ranked.

The point is he was the only one besides Blackbeard who was seen as real threats in regards to becoming Pirate King bar the Emperors. That alone automatically indicates that he's outstanding.

You can't be said to not have shown any potential without exhibiting strength at the very least, if Sengoku, and Chinjao rated them so highly. Sengoku and co. never said the same regarding Luffy despite his feats. or any other pirates despite how strong they were. It's not an acknowledgement easily gained if Blackbeard is only gaining that for taking out Ace and then Marco and co. to become an Emperor.

If you also read what Chinjao said, he based Blackbeard's prospects as the future PK based on he strength he displayed. Watch what he said regarding Luffy? He said if you can only "match" me in my current state, then you don't have potential to be PK. Only makes sense that Ace proved himself via his strength in order to be assessed as a potential because he was powerful. There are many other powerful Pirates, but only Ace & Blackbeard stood out. Not 10 different potentials.

The fact that he had a Bounty value of 550m further proves exactly what I stated earlier. 3 years to accumulate that is quite the feat.

As Blackbeard also said, it's been a while since you've been hit. Being a Logia doesn't guarantee not being hit especially by Haki users and more so as he's stationed in the New World. Could very well imply he had top-notch abilities in evading damage like Katakuri. We really do not know. Nonetheless, to defeat a VA before even getting to the New World, and given the growth rate he had especially as he was a WB Pirate and Pirate for an entirety of 2 years, it's very likely his strength is underestimated. There might not be many acknowledged feats. but the people he tangoed with didn't have easy times. He's definitely underestimated.

Unfortunately, since he is dead we aren’t likely to get much more info. I don’t think it’s wrong to say Ace is strong but not Yonko level. Others may disagree and they may be right assuming Ace grew a lot in strength after joining WB. It could be very well that WB and B.B. were strong even by Yonko standards. Meaning that even though Ace couldn’t beat them he may be stronger than the other two Yonko.

Either theories are acceptable but we aren’t likely to get clarity.

I personally place Ace around current Luffy’s level but that’s just a conservative opinion based on only what is confirmed and not taking into account theories or inferences. Speculatively he could be stronger but no hard proof that he is. Besides, current Luffy is a beast. That’s no disrespect to Ace.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Unfortunately, since he is dead we aren’t likely to get much more info.

There is going to be some from Oda, he stated so recently.

I don’t think it’s wrong to say Ace is strong but not Yonko level.

Not saying he is, just saying he's strong. Katakuri is not as strong as a Yonko, doesn't mean he's not exceptionally strong.