Hangout One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[HereNThere]

He's not blaming Sanji, just pointing out how Oda has been handling the SHs post time skip. If you're looking for some focus on Usopp as a character and for him to naturally grow both from character development point of view and fighting abilities in a natural way it likely won't happen.

@kkck is right. Aside from Luffy none of the SHs (Sanji included) have gotten much development post time skip. Feels like Oda has a checklist of where he needs the characters to be from a narrative/strength point of view and just jumps everything in between. Regarding your original question Usopp will be shown to be strong enough to defeat characters on the level of Oven, Page One, Izou, Daifuki, Sasaki etc since the plot demands that of him. So you will get something but it will be forced by plot since the Usopp we have seen for the last 15 years by current power level standards is weak. But Usopp will somehow end up defeating Van Auger a powerful opponent by end of story without any actual fights in between where we get to see him develop skills.

As an example Usopp activated observation haki when taking out Sugar in chapter 758, which was released in 2014! It has been almost 11 years now and we have not seen Usopp use haki at all. Unfortunately, this is all we will get from Oda on a lot of the original Strawhats for the rest of the story since he's gotten too busy with other characters. They're getting the same treatment as a lot of the original characters (Krillin, Yamacha, Tien, etc) in Dragon Ball.

Yeah, the SHs have unfortunately been given table scraps for the most part in the time-skip, while Luffy gets the focus to build his strength and empire up. I mean, Wano was the first time since Fishman Island that the Strawhats as a whole fought as a crew and really showed off what they could do. Oda really had to fit in a crap ton of development for the majority of them in that arc because they got so little elsewhere. And even then, Usopp and Franky were still left out, with Usopp being the worst off as he didn't even get a fight or decent character moment.

That being said, I wouldn't worry about Usopp (or any of the others) being left out completely. I'm certain they'll get their moments. The only issue is whether or not the moments will be earned.

What diff does current sanji and zoro take big mom or kaido too

Depends on the circumstances and whether or not you believe the two are comparable to Kidd and Law.

 

[kkck]

If you're saying all that about Sanji,

then were would that leave Usopp going forward, is the question I'm rather curious about at this point.

Because if I'm understanding this correctly, then should I presume Usopp is being pushed aside because, to put it bluntly, it's Sanji's fault?

Nowhere. Ussop will simply be as strong as he needs to be to take on other yonko executives which is what happened with sanji, who has one victory in the new world, or franky who who defeated a yonko executive. In fairness franky at least had a win against that one doflamingo executive but then taking on one of kaido's top executives is a massive jump. You would have expected franky to get some development at egghead and yet... nothing. The manga just has time to rush through luffy's training arcs and nothing else.

 

[electricmastro]

Nowhere. Ussop will simply be as strong as he needs to be to take on other yonko executives which is what happened with sanji, who has one victory in the new world, or franky who who defeated a yonko executive. In fairness franky at least had a win against that one doflamingo executive but then taking on one of kaido's top executives is a massive jump. You would have expected franky to get some development at egghead and yet... nothing. The manga just has time to rush through luffy's training arcs and nothing else.

I’ll still hold out given how much Franky and the others struggled to handle the situation with the Elders at Egghead without anyone dying.

I doubt Oda would want to keep portraying them as failures even though the Vegapunks got “resurrected” in their own way. Luffy will need as much backup as possible since even he didn’t manage to rescue all of them, so that much I suppose we can expect for all of them.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

He has used Observation to spot the gards at the gates of Onigashima and snipped them before they could sound the alarm. Also, the Strawhats powering up in each arc and through battles without training has been a staple of the series since the start. The timeskip is the first when all the Stawhats actually trained for 2 years and we still see them gain new skills and weapons even now, especially Sanji and Zoro. Ussop is a snipper, he doesn't need to be some brawler on the level of Kaido.

Spoiler: Usopp spots guards

He literally used binoculars in the previous panel to spot the guards from a distance before sniping them. How is that haki use? This type of situation would have been great to show of Usopp's CoO but instead Oda went out of his way to have him use binoculars!

As for powering up each arc, the compaint is most of the SHs don't actually get a real fight anymore. Pre-skip every SH got a 1v1 most arcs where they had to overcome someone strong. Post skip aside from Luffy most of the SHs don't get any actual fights.

Since the timeskip Usopp has only had a single 1v1 fight and that was in Fishman Island arc. He didn't get a fight during Punk Hazard, he got to snipe Sugar and get beat up during Dressrosa but no 1v1, during WCI and Zou Usopp didn't get any fights, during Wano Usopp didn't get any fights, during Onigashima he mostly ran around dealing with fodder and still no 1v1, and most recently during Egghead he again got no fights. Almost all the 1v1 fights Usopp has ever had are pre-skip e.g. Perona, Chew, tag team fight against Mr.4 and Christmas, his fight with the CP9 agent, his fight with Chew in Arlong Park, him and the Usopp pirates vs the Jango, etc. He got a lot more combat that made it easy to see his growth. Now I just expect Usopp will suddenly be strong enough to fight Van Auger and will have to use his mastery of CoO to overcome the teleportation even though we have seen Usopp get no real combat experience in New World aside from fodder and running away from strong people.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2025, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2025 ---

Yeah, the SHs have unfortunately been given table scraps for the most part in the time-skip, while Luffy gets the focus to build his strength and empire up. I mean, Wano was the first time since Fishman Island that the Strawhats as a whole fought as a crew and really showed off what they could do. Oda really had to fit in a crap ton of development for the majority of them in that arc because they got so little elsewhere. And even then, Usopp and Franky were still left out, with Usopp being the worst off as he didn't even get a fight or decent character moment.

That being said, I wouldn't worry about Usopp (or any of the others) being left out completely. I'm certain they'll get their moments. The only issue is whether or not the moments will be earned.

Yeah its sad that the SHs development time had to be taken out so Oda can focus on the new characters that are always being introduced. I know by the end of it SHs will all be strong and achieve their dreams but as a reader it feels like I used that remote in the movie Click and just skipped to the end results without living the in between.

Do get you on that Usopp and the other SHs will be around and get spot light once in a while.

 

[costicla]

He was not really looking towards the guards with the binoculars, but fine, you can say he didn't use Haki, doesn't really matter, he took the guards out before anyone even realised what happened, like a snipper should.

 

[HereNThere]

He literally used binoculars in the previous panel to spot the guards from a distance before sniping them. How is that haki use? This type of situation would have been great to show of Usopp's CoO but instead Oda went out of his way to have him use binoculars!

Admittedly, the binoculars do make it iffy, but I do think the implications were that he used haki given that he was looking in a different direction than where the binoculars were pointed in that panel. Still, all Oda had to do was get rid of the binoculars or have someone like Chopper looking through them and not see anything initially, only for it to be revealed that Usopp took care of them already.

Do get you on that Usopp and the other SHs will be around and get spot light once in a while.

Yeah, it'll happen, but I feel for fans of those characters. Sanji gets a ton of crap, but I sleep well knowing he's always guaranteed to see action and I know Robin will always be integral to the main plot, so I'm good for the most part. Brook on the otherhand? Well, at least I have the other two.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

He was not really looking towards the guards with the binoculars, but fine, you can say he didn't use Haki, doesn't really matter, he took the guards out before anyone even realised what happened, like a snipper should.

Yeah I'm not contesting the sniping which he did really good at and has done before. My favorite example being Ennies Lobby when he helped save Robin by sniping from a far distance. Just doesn't look like it was haki related since in the previous page we see a close up of the guards through their shadows on the paper doors and the first panel in the next page is Usopp commenting about guards to everyone, which to me implies he used the binoculars to spot them.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2025, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2025 ---

Admittedly, the binoculars do make it iffy, but I do think the implications were that he used haki given that he was looking in a different direction than where the binoculars were pointed in that panel. Still, all Oda had to do was get rid of the binoculars or have someone like Chopper looking through them and not see anything initially.

Definitely was missed opportunity by Oda so show off his haki skills.

As for the panel the previous page shows a zoomed in version of the guards in the second to last panel. I interpret the eyes looking away as him looking towards the other people on the ship on what he just saw. It could be haki but feels like a stretch to me. Either way if it was haki that'd still make it only 2 times in 11 years Oda has even bothered to show Usopp using it which to me is a shame.

Spoiler: Previous page with the guards

 

[electricmastro]

Was talking more with @Kuroiyaiba about Yamato’s path to joining the Straw Hats, and one thing I brought up that could understandably lead others to doubt her joining is the lack of a long-term goal.

Oda built up long-term goals with the other 10 Straw Hats, whereas Yamato’s goal was only to be free to sail out and that was it.

One can still sail without having a goal, sure, but given all the effort Oda has put in with the goals and developments from Luffy to Jinbe, to have Yamato sail just to drink and party would admittedly feel bland.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Born to be (in) wild (marriage)

Makes me seriously wonder if this is a hint at who Yamato‘s mom is

Edit: guess I have to explain the wild marriage term: in Germany we use the term “Wilde Ehe“ which translates as wild marriage, which referrs to woman and man living together, possibly having children, too while not being officially married.

 

[kkck]

Wasn't the implication that kaido and big mom parted ways at the rocks incident? I don't think yamato is old enough to be lin lin's daughter.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Wasn't the implication that kaido and big mom parted ways at the rocks incident? I don't think yamato is old enough to be lin lin's daughter.

Even assuming they did indeed see after said event and have eventually have a common child (Yamato), I think for the child not to be with Big Mom is just out of character, except Kaido took their daughter in by force which then again would be an alternative explanation for the life long debt Kaido owes to her.

 

[kkck]

Even assuming they did indeed see after said event and have eventually have a common child (Yamato), I think for the child not to be with Big Mom is just out of character, except Kaido took their daughter in by force which then again would be an alternative explanation for the life long debt Kaido owes to her.

the lifelong debt probably was over the devil fruit kaido got at the time of the rocks incident.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

the lifelong debt probably was over the devil fruit kaido got at the time of the rocks incident.

Yeah, that‘s what I do believe as well. Just been trying to be open for fun and call out a possible plot twist.
However I think it‘s safe to assume that someone else and not Linlin is Yamato‘s mother.

 

[electricmastro]

Born to be (in) wild (marriage)

Makes me seriously wonder if this is a hint at who Yamato‘s mom is

Edit: guess I have to explain the wild marriage term: in Germany we use the term “Wilde Ehe“ which translates as wild marriage, which referrs to woman and man living together, possibly having children, too while not being officially married.

One idea I saw suggested is that Gloriosa is Yamato’s mom, given how Gloriosa had history with Kaido on the Rocks Pirates, and Big Mom and Stussy already having lovers of their own.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

One idea I saw suggested is that Gloriosa is Yamato’s mom, given how Gloriosa had history with Kaido on the Rocks Pirates, and Big Mom and Stussy already having lovers of their own.

My number one problem when trying to determin the family relations of female characters based on apearances is that Oda‘s female character design lacks variety. He‘s usually using clothes, hairstyles or hair colours to have his female characters look different from each other. In plenty of cases mother and daughter just look alike e.g. Robin, Vivi, Rebecca to just name a few.
All that said I say, sure why not Gloriosa. Or wait, with Black Maria I was under the impression that Kaido might prefer younger women but well hard to tell as he was drunk back then anyway.

 

[electricmastro]

My number one problem when trying to determin the family relations of female characters based on apearances is that Oda‘s female character design lacks variety. He‘s usually using clothes, hairstyles or hair colours to have his female characters look different from each other. In plenty of cases mother and daughter just look alike e.g. Robin, Vivi, Rebecca to just name a few.
All that said I say, sure why not Gloriosa. Or wait, with Black Maria I was under the impression that Kaido might prefer younger women but well hard to tell as he was drunk back then anyway.

It’s interesting, because if Yamato’s mother is an Amazon Lily inhabitant, then I suppose it could lead into Yamato having “birthright”/links to Amazon Lily, possibly involving a storyline with Hancock depending on how far things went.

Would possibly depend on Kaido’s motive too. It’s evident he was keen on having his kid be shogun of Wano instead of doing the shogun work himself. He even let Orochi be shogun instead of being shogun himself, so it’s possible Kaido had a lover specifically for that reason.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

It’s interesting, because if Yamato’s mother is an Amazon Lily inhabitant, then I suppose it could lead into Yamato having “birthright”/links to Amazon Lily, possibly involving a storyline with Hancock depending on how far things went.

Would possibly depend on Kaido’s motive too. It’s evident he was keen on having his kid be shogun of Wano instead of doing the shogun work himself. He even let Orochi be shogun instead of being shogun himself, so it’s possible Kaido had a lover specifically for that reason.

Alright if you put it like that I might be willing to buy it. I guess it‘s still a total shot in the dark though as Kaido might have been anywhere, before he settled on Wano following Higurashi‘s call.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2025, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2025 ---

@electricmastro btw, I totally forgt to answer you once again on the Yamato needs a deeper motive matter. I don‘t think it is required. She seeks out freedom and adventure, she‘s strong and she‘s willing to enjoy hanging around with the others (remember the Fire Festival). IMO that‘s enough, no reason to dig any deeper. But might as well be that Oda comes up with one for her eventually. After all the cover story is still featuring her.

 

[electricmastro]

btw, I totally forgt to answer you once again on the Yamato needs a deeper motive matter. I don‘t think it is required. She seeks out freedom and adventure, she‘s strong and she‘s willing to enjoy hanging around with the others (remember the Fire Festival).

Sure, but again, given how Oda has given a deeper motivation for the first 10 Straw Hats from Luffy to Jinbe, and the effort and emotions Oda put the effort in with their deeper motivations, then to have Yamato sail just to drink and party would be, all things considered, a step down.

Zoro joining Luffy partly to help achieve his goal of being world’s strongest swordsman for example makes his joining all the more special.

So yes, while joining with no long-term motive or purpose is something Oda could do, that’s not something he has done in practice given all his efforts with the writing for them. So to have Yamato just sail around just for sake of it would, admittedly, feel more bland and underdeveloped.

Also, there’s of course the situation of Yamato feeling if Wano is capable to defend itself without her. She’s already delaying her departure for Momo’s sake, so the less urgency she has to leave, the longer she’d delay her departure, because otherwise she’d feel more guilty over leaving no matter how Momo’s training went.

Having her leave just to drink and party instead of helping a vulnerable Wano would likely make her look more selfish, perhaps similar to how Yasopp is looked at now. That’s something I think Oda would avoid with the main crew, so giving her an actual urgency would make it all the better for her, as opposed to not having one.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Sure, but again, given how Oda has given a deeper motivation for the first 10 Straw Hats from Luffy to Jinbe, and the effort and emotions Oda put the effort in with their deeper motivations, then to have Yamato sail just to drink and party would be, all things considered, a step down.

Zoro joining Luffy partly to help achieve his goal of being world’s strongest swordsman for example makes his joining all the more special.

So yes, while joining with no long-term motive or purpose is something Oda could do, that’s not something he has done in practice given all his efforts with the writing for them. So to have Yamato just sail around just for sake of it would, admittedly, feel more bland and underdeveloped.

Also, there’s of course the situation of Yamato feeling if Wano is capable to defend itself without her. She’s already delaying her departure for Momo’s sake, so the less urgency she has to leave, the longer she’d delay her departure, because otherwise she’d feel more guilty over leaving no matter how Momo’s training went.

Having her leave just to drink and party instead of helping a vulnerable Wano would likely make her look more selfish, perhaps similar to how Yasopp is looked at now. That’s something I think Oda would avoid with the main crew, so giving her an actual urgency would make it all the better for her, as opposed to not having one.

Let me put it like this: did you forget about Robin‘s way of joining?
IIRC she was the first one to join after asking Luffy to let her join. And to that time neither Luffy nor us readers did know anything about her background or her motivation.
So you can repeat all your reasoning and try to analyse deeper patterns of the joining process or you can simply accept that there is no 100% fixed standard pattern required for new members to fullfill in order to join. That‘s all I was trying to tell you.
That said I‘m stepping back from discussing this any further.

But if you still want to look deeper into it I suggest to dedicate a new thread to the question.

 

[electricmastro]

Let me put it like this: did you forget about Robin‘s way of joining?
IIRC she was the first one to join after asking Luffy to let her join. And to that time neither Luffy nor us readers did know anything about her background or her motivation.
So you can repeat all your reasoning and try to analyse deeper patterns of the joining process or you can simply accept that there is no 100% fixed standard pattern required for new members to fullfill in order to join. That‘s all I was trying to tell you.
That said I‘m stepping back from discussing this any further.

But if you still want to look deeper into it I suggest to dedicate a new thread to the question.

I don't claim there's a 100% fixed pattern. I'm just holding Oda to a high standard which he presumably holds towards himself as well, in having better character writing instead of worse character writing. I certainly don't want him to write characters worse, and would want him to write them as best as possible. lol

But yes, here's a Yamato thread in case you want to explore the idea further there: https://mangahelpers.com/forum/thre...with-luffy-because-of-momo’s-failure.3032244/