One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[Hannibal Psyche]

You forgot that he sunk 2 marine warships out of 4. I am pretty sure Buggy cannot do that

Luffy's infiltration sounds amazing to others but to readers it isn't. Boa Hancock helped him. Shichibukai can enter and leave Impel Down, like BB. He was left for dead by Magellan and Bon Clay risked his life to reach Ivankov. Ivankov used his hormones to save him. Luffy fought Magellan using Mr.3's wax powers. Ivankov also fought Magellan. Jinbe summoned sharks to escape from Magellan. And finally Bon Clay sacrificed himself to open the main gate. In paper they say Luffy escaped Impel Down but in reality it was a group effort. It is a great feat but what BB did is way better than Luffy did.

Right now I don't find Ennies Lobby infiltration that epic. If Jack infiltrated Ennies Lobby at the moment when Luffy infiltrated, Jack can beat all CP0 agents and escape. Why I love EL is because they gave everything to save a friend. Rob Lucci was hyped up so much but he was only nearing Vice-Admiral in power. Right now he is strong but then he wasn't. A Pacifista could beat him back then.

Marineford War. WB liked Luffy and told Marco that he would never forgive him if anything happens to him.
1. Aokiji tries to kill Luffy but Marco saves him
2. Mihawk tries to kill Luffy but Vista saves him
3. Luffy fell into water but Jinbe saves him
4. Kizaru kicks Luffy but WB catches him before Kizaru could finish Luffy
5. Ivankov uses hormones
6. Garp closed his eyes
7. Akainu tries to kill Luffy but the enitre WB fleet+Jinbe+Crocodile+Ivankov+Buggy tries to save him.
8. Law saved Luffy's life

Impressive feats:
1. Saved Ace
2. Conqueror's haki
3. Tanked a hit from Sengoku

In the war I don't think he beat any notable strong people either.

Again it is a group effort. Since Luffy is the MC, Oda hype him up for the future.

Don't get me wrong. I love Luffy but I like to state what is the truth.

Jack's feat are amazing compared to that. Luffy cannot battle someone like Jack without G4 but he can only maintain it for 20 minutes. Jack can fight for 5 days without rest against strong opponents like Inurashi and Nekomamushi. Even though Inu and Neko has no feats, Luffy himself said that they are very strong.

I love Jack's character. Perfect for a right hand man of Kaido. Both of them look for deadly situations. They love to die. Made for each other.

P.S. Moderators this off topic, I know. Feel free to move it.

Why are we even comparing Luffy (a Rookie) to Veterans? Luffy and co. are still getting stronger, the likes of Jack and co. have reached the pinnacle of their powers. The entire purpose of Marineford, Sabaody, and Impel Down was to highlight that Luffy was too weak to conquer the Grand Line which is why Rayleigh asked him this.

Spoiler

He realised he was too weak, that was the entire point of those arcs. That's why once that saga concluded, Rayleigh brought this up and askd him if he wanted to train for 2 years in light of what he experienced against the Admirals and experiencing the strength of the Emperor Whitebeard; he knew full well what he'd be going up against and trained with this in mind.

Spoiler

So, while Luffy despaired from his weakness after realising the true gap between himself and his ambition, Rayleigh helped him to overcome that weakness and bridge that gap in power. That side, the other thing that was highlighted was:

1. Luffy's ability to draw in allies to do the impossible. A Rookie like Luffy should have never been able to break into Impel Down, much less Break out, that's the kind of thing that requires meticulous planning and years of forming coalitions and allies, he did all that in a day thanks to his luck.
2. Other thing focused on was how things just fall into his favour. He had no antidote to survive Magellan, what are the odds he'd have the aid of someone who just happens to manipulate hormones? Much less, to even survive a procedure that had a survival rate of 2-3%? This was highlighting serendipity, fortuitous incredible luck. Hawkins makes reference to this too, no matter how many times he tried to divine the chances of Luffy surviving, it never hit 0. It's like needing an operation after being stung by a poisonous insect deep in the rainforest, and it just so happens there's a highly developed medical facility just 2 minutes away; that's unlikely, but that is what Luffy's luck is really like.

What's Oda trying to convey to the reader? Yes, he has luck and luck will always favour him, but even with luck, when it comes to fighting the strong without the aid of others, he needs strength and that's what the time-skip was meant to accomplish.

So, while one can praise Jack or whoever, you're forgetting that Jack is a Veteran who has been with Kaido for years, and the things Luffy accomplished were things he should absolutely not have been able to accomplish at that level and without intricate planning. If Luffy were as strong as Jack pre-skip, the things he could have accomplished would be far more terrifying, so I don't think you can compare the 2. It's like trying to compare the achievements of a kid with an adult.

You say Luffy had a lot of help to get out of Impel down... well nothing suggests that Jack would even get past Magellan.

Magellan's ability is so OP, wiped out the entire crew. It's a given that Jack would be at death's door were he to be hit by Magellan's poison.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

Very slowpoke news, but still worth for fans of One Piece to comment through.

That is an interview for Studio Ghibli magazine ("熱風") in July, 2014 to Oda, where he discuss alot about Hayao Miyazaki and other stuff, where a special feature was translated by skerllyfc from Reddit.

Here is the cover too:

Spoiler

Oda says that when he was a kid reading Shonen Jump, most of the stories tended to be inconsistent. He liked Kinnikuman around that time.
During that period of Jump, they'd introduce a new character(s) in a big fashion one week and the next week, those characters would quietly be phased out.

Mangaka prioritized writing a fun and interesting story above all else and thus consistency took a backseat.
Kids also didn't really care about just issues and would read it regardless so when Oda decided to become a mangaka, he decided he would make everything consistent.
The past and future and all characters would be connected and wouldn't be phased out like in the past. One Piece represents this objective.

However, currently he says that people have become rather nagging about manga. They will look through the various inconsistencies or contradictions with a more fine tooth comb.
He said that in the past Shonen Jump was read almost exclusively by kids but now adult also read jump so that may be one of the reasons for this "new" nagging.
Now, Mangaka, in order to satisfy these older readers, have to make sure everything is correct and doesn't become inconsistent.

Oda himself feels slightly responsible for this. However, when creating a story, making sure everything is connected or all the events have been properly foreshadowed of hinted; "rules" like these do not exist.
He says that, as a challenge, he created a story where everything is consistent but normally you can freely create stories without having to do all of these.
Stories like "the nutcracker and the mouse king", which were created to entertain people are born through this "free" writing.

Source

---

@Sandman of AP forums posted a summary about what was depicted at One Piece Magazine #1

- Oda enjoys talking with young assistants since they are familiar with trends.

- Oda loves film and documentaries. He analyzes why people enjoy each film.

- Oda himself doesn't know much about recent games. Instead, he tells his assistants to feel free to spend Oda's studio's money on buying new games

- Oda prefers collecting information to sleeping. He says he even wants to become a robot who doesn't need sleep.

- Oda takes care of his neck and back and via chiropractic .

- Oda is very confident that he will not die from overwork since he doesn't feel stressed at least when he is drawing manga. Oda also says he feels exhausted when there are many works other than manga.

- Oda has never experienced a callus caused by too much drawings.

- Oda tells his editors that he will take care of their family if the editor is down from illness or injury due to overwork.

- Oda has been encouraging victims from earthquakes via drawing illustrations, but at the same time, he feels it might be meaningless if the victims are hungry.

- Oda sometimes skips drawing trivial stuffs (ex. Pandaman) these days since his eyesight is getting weaker.

- Oda needs to consult his notebooks about the details of ONE PIECE world.

- Oda is glad that Shueisha allows him to take more breaks these days. He goes to foreign countries (Singapore, Hawaii, Guam etc) at least once in a year.

- Oda wants to go on a round-the-world trip when ONE PIECE is finished. He says he'd like to visit Asian countries such as India. He also says that he wants to take a break during his serialization to visit world heritages which require physical strength to go. He wants to visit various countries by 50 years old.

- What Oda wants most now is Floating Seahorse in Dubai since he can see fish outside the window.

- Oda has a longing for sea and snow since his childhood because he lived in south mountain areas in Japan.

- Oda enjoys watching both old and new films, but he usually watches new films in order to catch up with the trends unless there is much free time.

- When asked if he is afraid that he can't come up with ideas about ONE PIECE some day in the future,
Oda denies and says he is confident that he can produce good ideas via final push near a deadline for chapters.
Oda appreciates deadlines since he considers he would not be able to draw an interesting manga if he had so much time to prepare.

- Many staffs are involved in ONE PIECE industry, but Oda himself doesn't feel pressured at all.
He says there is no responsibility for him about ONE PIECE other than manga although for example he has been getting along well with anime staffs.
Oda says it would not have a large impact even if ONE PIECE comes to an end due to his health.

- Oda considers manga is basically helpless in that it can't be of help for people who suffer from a large disaster.
Oda says manga doesn't produce food, house and clothes. (Oda has made drawings for the victims for large earthquakes in Japan.)

- When Oda was in his 20s, he thought he should spend time on manga rather than attending his parent's funeral even if they die.
Oda now calls it a crazy idea, but at the same time, he says this excessive seriousness toward manga made what ONE PIECE is today.

- Oda wants to entertain people ever since his childhood. He says he is happy to see others delighted.

- Oda says now that ONE PIECE is already the best manga in terms of volume sales he is wondering what to aim for next.
He also says he has already experienced most of what other popular manga artists have done in the past (anime, games etc?). Oda says he needs a big goal.

- Oda supports his assistants so that their mangas will become popular.

- ONE PIECE has more characters than before. He has to cram much information into one chapter to move forward with the story.
Oda says he would be able to draw really impressive fight scenes only if he could keep drawing the fight scene for 2 chapters in a row.
He feels ONE PIECE can now spend only 1 chapter at most on a fight scene.

- When asked where he wants to visit most, Oda laughs and says he doesn't want to visit space since it would be too dangerous.

- Oda is interested in diving since his wife loves it, but he is scared of sharks.
​

He also posted small details about what appears at One Piece Magazine #2

- Oda "There are ton of new characters I want to draw in Wano arc. Characters in ONE PIECE fight mostly on land despite them being pirates.
I'd like to draw some event scenes on the sea which reminds us that they are pirates. Maybe I'll change my mind, though (laugh)"

- When Kuma was introduced for the first time in 2002, Oda told one of his assistants that Kuma would cause the separation of Straw Hats in the future. It came true in 2008.

- Oda talked about Rakugo a lot in the interview.
​

All credits goes to him, ofcourse.

 

[hokageji]

- Oda "There are ton of new characters I want to draw in Wano arc. Characters in ONE PIECE fight mostly on land despite them being pirates.
I'd like to draw some event scenes on the sea which reminds us that they are pirates. Maybe I'll change my mind, though (laugh)"

This is one of the things i've been waiting for the most.... We've barely seen Luffy and co have a ship to ship battle or even an on-sea battle at length.. I guess Oda plans to show us something on their way to Wano.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

All lead cover of WSJ with One Piece released on this issue, here they're:

Spoiler

Credits to Redon.

 

[Erinyes]

From sandman Ap twitter (original source : here )

Editor revealed in a talk show 4 days ago that Wano arc will be the most amazing arc ever since Marineford War arc

alsostill from Sandman Ap :

According to the preview page for ONE PIECE Magazine volume 3,
- Successive editors AND Oda will talk about ONE PIECE together.

- Novel Ace chapter 3: World Government offers Ace to join Shichibukai in Sabaody where Spade Pirates stay for ship coating. Isca, a female Marine, confronts Ace.
- Kazuya Takahashi in Square Enix will draw the cover page for Ace novel.
- Sabo's bounty poster will be revealed.

 

[hokageji]

I wont dig up most on these editor hypes... I remember Naruto team said Tobi will be revealed and will be a huge surprise, it turned out to be the worst..

 

[Fox666]

But he's comparing it to another arc... Also I feel like the editor is giving that opinion more as a fan too.

 

[Erinyes]

Sabo's bounty revealed :

 

[I Am Atomic]

Sabo's bounty revealed :

I thought it would be higher

RA is considered the most dangerous group and their second in command only get this much? Bounty is not to do with strength alone but also consider how dangerous that person is to the WG and civilians, hence Nico Robin's high bounty when she was just 8 years old.

Couple of reasons I could assume are:
1. Sabo is weak (weaker than Admirals)
2. They do not know his true power
3. Could be an old bounty (i.e. hasn't considered Mera Mera no mi into account)
4. Haven't done anything to piss off WG

Don;t jump the guns, it is still a high bounty but the Yonko commanders have a far higher bounty. I was hoping that Sabo will reach a billion berries.

Finally, the bounty could have a hidden meaning for all I know. Urogue was considered the weakest Suppernova because of his low bounty of 108Mill. However, we later realised (well at least I did) that the number 108 has to do with Buddhism and he is also very strong.

Still, good to see Sabo's bounty. Thanks for sharing.

 

[hokageji]

Ace's bounty was 550 million beri.... Considering that, Sabo's should be lesser....

Revolutionary armies are not only the enemies of the govt, they can be enemies of a lot of things, including underworld, pirate groups, evil kings etc. Pirates on the other hand are enemies of the world govt, so RA bounties are not likely to be as high..

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Finally, this idea that Ace wasn't a Haki user can be put to rest. Surely, the same regarding Blackbeard... lol. He used it before he was invited to become a Shichibukai which was before the "War of the best" meaning this idea that Haki never exist since the beginning of the series is untrue. Oda just never showcased it being that we were in the weakest part of the Grand line I guess and since Luffy hadn't been taught what Haki was meaning he shouldn't have been able to discern it from a logical stand-point.

 

[hokageji]

I wouldnt conclude Blackbeard though. Maybe his lack of haki is why he sort after his DF like he did.... but having said that, it is unlikely he doesnt possess Haki since Jesus Burgess was already shown to possess and everyone in new world can.. just the idea that he doesnt makes things interesting.

 

[Spirit]

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...-piece-manga-scans-before-publication/.121028

Well... I wonder if these were some of Mangastream's Providers? I somewhat doubt it.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

Here's Sandman's summaries of One Piece Magazine #2 and #3:

- After becoming a mangaka, Oda noticed that his imagination ability of creating various stories is based on Rakugo, Japanese verbal entertainment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakugo
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=落語

- Oda has been enjoying Rakugo ever since he was in elementary school. When Oda's friends in junior high school came to his house,
he played a cassette tape of Rakugo to entertain them, but all of them got bored in 5 minutes.

- Oda started listening to Rakugo since his parents enjoyed Rakugo via cassette tapes. On the other hand, his elder sister didn't get attracted to it.
He even listened to Rakugo right before sleeping. Oda remembers he was an elementary school kid who fell into asleep thanks to middle-aged man's voice.lol

- When Oda was around 12/13 years old, he was very glad that his parents kindly bought a ticket for Rakugo show in Kumamoto for his birthday present.

- Oda meets Kosanji Yanagiya, one of the best Rakugo performer, once a year in Studio Ghibli. Toshio Suzuki, producer of Ghibli, invites Oda to his Rakugo event every year.

- Oda believes he has never run out of ideas about ONE PIECE story because he knows a lot about classic Rakugo/film/Jidaigeki which survived the test of time.

- Oda devoted himself to watching films in high school/college days. He watched 3 films per day. He got bored with current films soon and started focusing on classics.

- Oda thinks perhaps the sound effect "Don!!" (ドン!!) in ONE PIECE is based on actors' overacting in classic Jidaigeki.
Oda says he wants his audience to pay attention to the "Don!!" panel.

- Oda considers a good sense of rhythm about words is important when creating sentences in ONE PIECE although he doesn't read many books.
Oda sometimes keeps in mind that he should write sentences in 5-7-5 Japanese traditional poetic Haiku form.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku

- The person Oda wants to meet most now is Quentin Tarantino. Oda also says that he has already met most of the people whom he wants to.

- Oda at the age of 3-6 resolved to become a mangaka since he can make a living via drawing manga every day.

- Oda thought he would easily become the best mangaka since he had been confident of his drawing technique, but
he noticed that he needed to learn creating an interesting story when he was around 17 years old.

- Oda was not convinced when his art teacher in junior high school didn't give the best grade to his good Toriyama-ish dragon drawing.
Oda says he thought there was no difference between manga and art.

- Before Oda became a professional mangaka, his editor often advised him to create well-defined manga characters.
Some people even criticized that Luffy in "Romance Dawn" (prototype for ONE PIECE) didn't seem to move on its own.
Oda says that himself didn't fully grasp the personality of Luffy at that time.

- Oda remembers he was a rude person without knowing it before his debut as a professional mangaka.
He talked to a legendary mangaka (HIroshi Motomiya) too casually in a party, which made staffs upset.

- Oda keeps in mind that he should make funny and casual comments in SBS. Oda in childhood had read mangaka talking about their hardships in
creating manga in author's comments. He made up his mind that he wouldn't write such a comment since [he considers audience wouldn't understand it
no matter how mangaka talks about their hardships in detail.

- Bandai company plans to sell OP goods based on SBS drawings of gender-bent/childhood characters although Oda just wants to draw them just for fun.

- Oda says he'd like to keep being "a friendly funny guy in neighborhood" for kids who feels free to answer their requests to make drawings in SBS.
Oda also says his drawings are not something very valuable. He says he is not a kind of mangaka who considers himself, "Even one line drawn by me can make much money!"

***************************
- Oda "Be sure to look forward to Wano country. I refrain from revealing when I draw it, though."

- Oda "There are tons of new characters I want to draw in Wano arc. Characters in ONE PIECE fight mostly on land despite them being pirates.
I'd like to draw some event scenes on the sea which reminds us that they are pirates. Maybe I'll change my mind, though (laugh)"

- When Kuma was introduced for the first time in 2002, Oda told one of his assistants that Kuma would cause the separation of Straw Hats in the future. It came true in 2008.

- The drawings of Amaru Enel are based on a elephant.

- There are some supplements (vitamin, turmeric, ornithine and forskohlii) and Red Bull on Oda's desk...

- Oda is getting excited and doesn't eat food near the deadline for submitting manuscripts. Oda says food would make him sleepy.
On the other hand, his assistants are getting exhausted near the deadline.

- 3 assistants have been working under Oda for more than 15 years.

- Oda had nearly 30 options for Rebecca's name. (Shalom, Violet, Russian, Akiria, Girasole, Laura, Helianthus,
Seneca, Juvenalis, Noir, Vineyard, Iris, Amazonia, Lambda, Isbell and Fabula etc..)
The text says Shalom means peace in Hebrew and some other options mean sunflower in different languages.

- There is an impressive line Oda didn't use in Enies Lobby arc.
Luffy "Robin! Keep laughing! There's nothing to be afraid of! I'm with you!!"
Robin sheds tears remembering Saul's words "Laugh when you are in hardships!! Dereshishishi"

Spoiler

---

OPM #3

- Oda planned to draw a manga which handles pirates, witch/wizard or Ninja ever since he was a kid according to editor Kushima.
- Oda originally planned that Doflamingo and Corazon had no blood relationship. Corazon was just one of his subordinates. Doflamingo had no brothers or sisters. Vergo's code name was Sir Dean.
- The name of Donquixote Homing was originally Donquixote Dressking. Dressking and Cobra were good friends.
- Doflamingo thought, "I'm gonna become king of the world!" when he escaped from Marijoa. Then he formed a crime syndicate in "Downs" in North Blue.
- After Roger got executed, Doflamingo made up his mind, "I'm gonna become King of the Pirates!"
- Oda's uric acid level is high due to lack of exercise.
- Oda sometimes skips meals for a few days to focus on his work.
- When an assistant asked Oda what was the most delicious food in his life, he answered that his favorite food was small pieces of cheap pork sold in supermarkets with rice and soy sauce.
- Oda is really grateful to Hisashi Sasaki, Vice President of Global SHONENJUMP since he made a lot of effort to realize the serialization of ONE PIECE despite many editors being against it.
- Oda got angry when his editor told him that none of his female characters were cute before his debut.
- Oda's friend mangaka told him that there was a terrible editor named Sugita. When Sugita met Oda for the first time as his editor, Oda instantly said to him, "Change to another editor!". Sugita was shocked to hear that. Oda says Sugita later turned out to be a good editor.
- Oda complains that current editor Naito is the most low-key editor in his life. Even when Naito praised that this chapter was interesting, Oda wasn't able to trust his words. Oda says editor Sugita was the best editor in this regard. Naito's low-key attitude improved a lot in 2 weeks after Oda's advice.
- When Oda and editor Hattori met for the fist time, Oda asked him if he is married or has a girlfriend. Hattori answered that his wife is pregnant. Oda told him that then he can't give Hattori much work. Hattori was surprised since he thought Oda was a very strict mangaka with editors.
- Oda starts his talk with editor on a phone, "What were your interesting events which happened this week?" since Oda needs to be relaxed after concentrating on manga.
- Amazon Lily arc got more sexy than Oda had planned since he was glad that his editor Hattori got hyped every time he drew sexy characters. Hattori jokingly complains, "Your words sound like I'm just a lecherous editor!"

All credits to him from AP.

 

[HereNThere]

MangaHelpers Manga Wars 2017 is coming soon!​

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Many discussed in this thread before the chapter came out that Katakuri is overated and bounty means nothing. From the start I am a Katakuri fan boy. From his design alone I saw him as the strongest. I also see him as the villain of WCI rather than BM. Now in this chapter two things were pointed out. Jinbe tell the crew about how Luffy is taking on a billion berry bounty guy. Second, it is stated that Katakuri is the strongest commander. Glad to see that this threads questions doubts are being cleared.

Many discussed in this thread before the chapter came out that Katakuri is overated and bounty means nothing.

I agree with most of what you've said, however, this is where I find problems. The acceptance of "fanboying" in any community is detrimental to discussing things objectively. If I found Bobbin to be cool based on his design the way you find Katakuri to be cool, and then used that as justification for why I thought he was the strongest, then no sound discussion or debate will take place. Productive discussions require objectivity, not preference, feelings or bias. It is confirmed that he's the strongest, but it's not not the case that that bounty necessarily equates into strength. It being over a billion only showcases longevity and exceptionalism. There's a reason that Sabo's bounty being 602m didn't resonate with so many which, perhaps that's hinting at the community not fully grasping bounties? Bounty is not as cut-throat.

Look how Luffy's bounty was 300m while Kidd's was 315m? was it because Kidd was necessarily stronger? No, there were other factors to consider. Look at Urouge (108m bounty) who the community have now made into a meme and hold in high-regard? He had one of the lowest bounties amongst the Supernova if memory serves me right, and turns out he was the only one remotely able to do anything in WCI - Kid (315m & 470m) failed despite having a higher bounty, Apoo (198m & 350m) failed despite having a higher bounty while Capone (138m & 300m) subordinated himself over.

Blackbeard's bounty was 0 because he was unnoticed. What if Katakuri didn't get that much exposure like Blackbeard and remained in his domain, would he have a bounty of 1 billion? Oda could easily have made it such that Cracker carried out much more of Big Mom's bidding while Katakuri was left at base to run the country and subsequently ended up with both Katakuri and Cracker having opposite bounties? You'd essentially be thinking Cracker superior to Katakuri when Katakuri would in fact be the strongest.

Bounty for the most part is overrated and taken for more than its worth, otherwise, Urouge should at least have had a bounty exceeding 470m to justify why he was much more successful than Kid and the other Supernova who made an attempt at Big Mom's territory. Not saying it means nothing, it certainly means something when it's taken in context for why such a value was attributed, but for the most part, bounty isn't much of a scale to the extent that it's being made out to be in terms of power.
In the end, if Katakuri gets defeated which is likely because plot, all this claim about literally absolutely knowing this and that about a character due to bounty becomes redundant because Luffy's bounty would still only be 500m until it's raised again.

Without hard facts, feats and/or a invariable standardisation of any bounty values, it's impossible to have stated Katakuri strongest until now with solid evidence. Without a solid context on why a bounty is attributed, it's impossible to make such assertions. All that happened was the community came to a conclusion with insufficient evidence, and it just happened to be so. The same rationale would prove wrong because bounty is a multi-faceted value; pretty sure it's stated Dragon is the most wanted man implying he has the highest bounty even when Whitebeard (the strongest man) was alive.

I know that Bounty does not equal to strength. However, when the bounty reaches 1 billion berry I believe that it means strength. Jack got 1 billion duw to terrorism. However, he was very strong. Inu and Neko said that even though Jack's army was losing, Jack himself wasn't. He is beast. His only disadvantage is that he is an idiot. He tried to fight against 2 Admiral characters.

While Inuarashi and Nekomamushi stated that Jack wasn't losing, don't lose sight of the fact that both Nekomamushi and Inuarashi respectively fought against Jack, and Jack couldn't suppress them either despite it being 1 on 1s.
Jack had to resort to using biological weapons to end the stalemate. Jack's strength and resilience is noteworthy, but so should the Mink Kings who took on a Zoan whose ability improves stamina, strength and durability and still couldn't decide the fate of the battle with his 1 billion beri bounty.

It's a given anyone with a bounty that's high should be considered strong, but to use it as a scale at this point in time is totally unjustified. How much would Cracker's bounty be worth if he got to use the entirety of his power for the WG to witness along with his character and motivations? Would he also have a bounty of 1 billion? Can we conclude that just because Katakuri's bounty is 50m higher than Jack's, Jack couldn't possibly defeat him?

 

[I Am Atomic]

I have to agree with you. Me being a fan boy is true but it doesn't get to my head when debating. Last week's discussion thread was all about cussing Katakuri but I kept my mouth shut because I had no evidence/source to back up my point. I still do not think Bounty equals strength but in the case of Katakuri he deserves his 1 billion berry bounty. I only say this because Jinbe said that

Spoiler

"Katakuri got 1 billion berry bounty! Luffy's life is on the line!

. This hypes up Katakuri.

Yes I agree. It takes time to get a high bounty. Luffy's realistic bounty should be close to 1 billion berry if we go by strength but it isn't. Sabo's should be higher but isn't. However, why bounty is important is to hype the villains. When Joker was intriduced he had 340mill berry bounty, the highest we have known at that point. Later we see Luffy gets higher bounty but then later we learn that Joker's bounty was frozen for 10 years. So I use bounty to hype up characters.

Urouge (108m bounty)

At that time most people including me thought Urogue was the weakest Supernova. Later in the SBS we realise that his bounty is 108mill is because of Buddhism (type in google). It is some kind of sacred number and Urogue is a monk.

Blackbeard's bounty was 0 because he was unnoticed.

Agreed. This is one of the reasons why you cannot trust Bounty alone

Without hard facts, feats and/or a invariable standardisation of any bounty values, it's impossible to have stated Katakuri strongest until now with solid evidence. Without a solid context on why a bounty is attributed, it's impossible to make such assertions. All that happened was the community came to a conclusion with insufficient evidence, and it just happened to be so.

I don't think I said he was the strongest. However, it should have been obvious that he is the strongest. He is one of the commanders. He is the 3rd son. He was introduced last. His CoO is the best in the manga right now. His DF is different and Oda had to change from logia to paramecia (special for some reason). He is very mysterious. These are the reasons why I thought he was the strongest but I never brought it into discussion because it is my opinion, not everyone agrees with it because I like Katakuri more than others. So I can be biased.

While Inuarashi and Nekomamushi stated that Jack wasn't losing, don't lose sight of the fact that both Nekomamushi and Inuarashi respectively fought against Jack, and Jack couldn't suppress them either despite it being 1 on 1s.

Ofc, in the end I beleive that Jack would have lost. However, can Luffy fight against Neko and Inu, 1v1 day and night without rest? I do not think so.

Can we conclude that just because Katakuri's bounty is 50m higher than Jack's, Jack couldn't possibly defeat him?

Never. We haven't even seen their full power so how can we decide?

Well my point is that, we have seen two 1 billion berry bounty pirates and both of them are very strong. Their feats are very high and is a way of telling us that their strength is high.

Jack - introduced having 1 billion berry. We cannot judge if he is very strong or not initially. After the fight with 2 minks, personally I believe that he deserves that high bounty

Katakuri - introduced having 1 billion berry. We cannot judge if he is very strong or not initially. Now his feats - best CoO in the manga right now.

Spoiler

Overpowering Luffy's g2 and g3. Even Joker couldn't do that.

So, I agree with your post. Bounty cannot confirm if the person is the strongest. However, feats can and also confirmation from others. Now the answer is known in the latest chapter.

I use bounty as a confirmation of how hyped up a character is. Jack was the first person to have 1 billion berry bounty. From a story telling perspective, the author cannot introduce some random hooligan to have one. However, I keep that to myself. There are some people who can understand what the author is trying to do and understands the story well. Others (not you) who thinks that Luffy will get captured (again) and BM will free him after Sanji delivers the cake.

P.S. I have to be careful in how I word the text because of the 24 hour spoiler rule.

 

[MArGi]

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[Hannibal Psyche]

Okay so you have no evidence then?? Common sense also says if you don’t see someone do something don’t assume.

So, because Luffy hasn't used Fullbody Haki without Gear 4th, he can't do it outside of 4th. Poor argumentation, poor logic and poor rationale.

Somethings are just a given and are reasonable assumptions, perhaps that's a foreign concept to you. It's like claiming that Shanks can't use Observation Haki or Hardening simply because we've yet to see him do it when there's:

1. Nothing limiting him from being able to use.
2. No special conditions required to use it.
3. And it's just reasonable to assume it can be performed - keyword being reasonable.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2017 ---

Why shouldn't he be able to kick the ground 10 times? There's no reason especially with the fact that all it requires is a strong and well trained body.

It's not impossible that he can do it in base, will require practice.

In base, he'd likely have to practice it like everyone else and he's likely able to perform it but not as easily as he does in Gear 2nd was was stated

Obviously were arguing blindly without understand or reading properly what was stated.

Yes my statement was as you said but I’m choosing to agree to disagree because you refused to give me evidence and tbh the savage is just being a nuisance to the forum so I cba with it. But yeah we’ll just assume all strong characters in one piece can do soru without training innit.

Clearly, you failed to read what I stated properly when in actually, I implied besides the application of Gear 2nd which makes it EASILY performed, it'd require training/practice outside of it.

Also, you clearly do not seem to grasp that there are situations where evidence isn't required, it just needs to be reasonable assumption BASED on a standard.

• If anyone Joe in the new world can use Armament Haki, it's reasonable to assume Mihawk can do so even if we never saw him perform it as he's above the standard.

Some things are just reasonable assumptions when based on a standard, and in such scenarios, explicit evidence isn't need. Just a grasp of standard and the fact this Manga runs on consistency. It's this same standard that I used to claim Ace an Armament Haki user years ago, and it's only now that it's been confirmed despite the fact there was no explicit evidence of him doing so.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

So, because Luffy hasn't used Fullbody Haki without Gear 4th, he can't do it outside of 4th. Poor argumentation, poor logic and poor rationale.

Somethings are just a given and are reasonable assumptions, perhaps that's a foreign concept to you. It's like claiming that Shanks can't use Observation Haki or Hardening simply because we've yet to see him do it when there's:

1. Nothing limiting him from being able to use.
2. No special conditions required to use it.
3. And it's just reasonable to assume it can be performed - keyword being reasonable.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2017 ---

Obviously were arguing blindly without understand or reading properly what was stated.



Clearly, you failed to read what I stated properly when in actually, I implied besides the application of Gear 2nd which makes it EASILY performed, it'd require training/practice outside of it.

Also, you clearly do not seem to grasp that there are situations where evidence isn't required, it just needs to be reasonable assumption BASED on a standard.

• If anyone Joe in the new world can use Armament Haki, it's reasonable to assume Mihawk can do so even if we never saw him perform it as he's above the standard.

Some things are just reasonable assumptions when based on a standard, and in such scenarios, explicit evidence isn't need. Just a grasp of standard and the fact this Manga runs on consistency. It's this same standard that I used to claim Ace an Armament Haki user years ago, and it's only now that it's been confirmed despite the fact there was no explicit evidence of him doing so.

As stupid as if I this argument let me just give you another interpretation of easily in that context one more time. Easily could also have meant. He is doing it without practice and has good control of it while in the gear? But your opinion is the only right one even though there’s no evidence. But hey let’s belive zoro has mastered geppo and he was just to lazy to use it to go cut pica. Some ridiculous BS