One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[goldb]

See with the men the faces are quite different and so they're easy to spot. The only one I'm not 100% certain no.10.

 

[Organizized]

I spent way too much time on this already.

1. Alvida
2. Bonney
3. Shirley
4. Monet
5. Robin
6. Hancock?
7. ???
8. Rebecca or Nami?
9. Hina
10. Nami?
11. Tashigi
12. Violet, probably?
13. Perona
14. Koala..? Or maybe Vivi?
15. Shakky <3
16. Cindry, definitely.
17. Kalifa
18. ???
19. Nojiko? (Something about the eyebrows)
20. ???
21. Ivankov
22. Marguerite, maybe? (Because no visible eyebrows)
23. Camie
24. Shirahoshi
25. ???
26. Otohime
27. ???
28. Porche

 

[goldb]

I spent way too much time on this already.

1. Alvida
2. Bonney
3. Shirley
4. Monet
5. Robin
6. Hancock?
7. ???
8. Rebecca or Nami?
9. Hina
10. Nami?
11. Tashigi
12. Violet, probably?
13. Perona
14. Koala..? Or maybe Vivi?
15. Shakky <3
16. Cindry, definitely.
17. Kalifa
18. ???
19. Nojiko? (Something about the eyebrows)
20. ???
21. Ivankov
22. Marguerite, maybe? (Because no visible eyebrows)
23. Camie
24. Shirahoshi
25. ???
26. Otohime
27. ???
28. Porche

Haha, welcome to my day

Funny thing is, once you point them out; it seems quite obvious. Like now I can clearly Hancock (stern look), Tashigi, Cindry (dead eyes cos well...she dead).
19 could be Nojiko; the face matches.

28...I had a feeling that could be Porche but I dont recall seeing her without the mask so I couldn't be sure.

Any idea who 10 is on the men's? it's the only one I can't quite get. I thought Sentomaru but it doesnt have his scar.

 

[Organizized]

Nah that has to be Sentomaru. I think maybe they removed his scar to make a little tougher (looks a little like a stretched out Zoro, I thought at first). But it has to be from this page:

 

[Hrathgrath]

10 is cesear

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2018 ---

Wait my bad, misunderstood,breed them in my head. Looks like Zoro to me.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018 ---

Here are the boys.

1. Aokiji
2.Law
3.Luffy
4.
5. Kin’emon
6.Coribou
7. Magellan
8.
9.
10. Zoro
11. Demolo black
12. Franky
13.
14. Diamond jozu
15. Apoo
16. Cesear
For the life of me I can’t get the others!

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018 ---

Actually, after reading the other posts, it does look like sentomaru without the scar!

 

[goldb]

10 is cesear

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2018 ---

Wait my bad, misunderstood,breed them in my head. Looks like Zoro to me.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018 ---

1. Aokiji
2.Law
3.Luffy
4.
5. Kin’emon
6.Coribou
7. Magellan
8.
9.
10. Zoro
11. Demolo black
12. Franky
13.
14. Diamond jozu
15. Apoo
16. Cesear
For the life of me I can’t get the others!

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018 ---

Actually, after reading the other posts, it does look like sentomaru without the scar!

4. Koza; Vivi's friend from Alabasta.
8. Eustass Kid
9. Gecko Moria
13. Ace. I've seen a lot of people unsure whether or not it's really him on other forums, but it is. I remember because I always found this particular panel weird because of how Oda drew his mouth. I'll see if I can find the page in a sec.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018 ---

Nah that has to be Sentomaru. I think maybe they removed his scar to make a little tougher (looks a little like a stretched out Zoro, I thought at first). But it has to be from this page:

Yep, and it's actually taken from that EXACT panel, if you look properly.

 

[Hrathgrath]

4. Koza; Vivi's friend from Alabasta.
8. Eustass Kid
9. Gecko Moria
13. Ace. I've seen a lot of people unsure whether or not it's really him on other forums, but it is. I remember because I always found this particular panel weird because of how Oda drew his mouth. I'll see if I can find the page in a sec.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2018 ---

Yep, and it's actually taken from that EXACT panel, if you look properly.

Awesome! Thanks man (or woah-man)! Things like this have a tendency to burn holes in my brain if I don’t have the questions answered. It’s the reason I’m as smart (read knowledgeable) as I am (or at least people around me say so, I’m personally waiting for my ego jury to return on how smart I think I am). I need to know how and why things are the way they are and how they work, which results in me having a vast wealth of “useless” knowledge. I always tell people, “I know a little about a LOT”. Don’t know how smart that makes me, I personally feel like a living encyclopedia...sometimes anyway. God (and I say god sarcastically since I’m atheist) bless the internet age! Where answers to most questions, and debates on those answers, are always a few taps and clicks away!

I agree that it’s probably Ace. They probably took out his freckles for the same reason they took out Sentomaru’s scar. Too identifiable.

 

[goldb]

Found it!
But it wasn't the exact page I thought it was thinking(THIS in ch157), it's actually from a few chapters later (ch159):

 

[mercsii]

Kinda is. Due to be wanted criminal in their system along Ronin, it will later direct him to the Shogun. If you think Zoro can fight and miraculously defeat him and fight ooffthe Shogun just fine. Not going to happen logical. Oda is setting up for ideal opponent for others not multiple for one person.

... hater.. lol

TL;DR - you're wrong, I'm right... lol jp. However, I think Zoro is a lot stronger than what you might be thinking
(also... i think you can skip this part and go to Part 2...which is long af too...)

I actually have the opposite viewpoint. Before getting into it, let's review Zoro's character and development (... this gonna be a long post...).

- Zoro can be seen as one of the most mature members of SH, as his gag materials revolve around his poor sense of direction more than anything else (Zoro and Robin are probably #1 and #2 most mature, not respectively).
- Even if he had more gags, that would not necessarily change his maturity level directly, as there are numerous instances showcasing how Zoro's mindset/understanding is perhaps a step above most of the younger crew members (think about Brook, he's silly as heck, but he still has the wisdom that comes from age and experience; however, Brook is actually really old, as opposed to Zoro and the pre-Grand-Line members, who are young adults).
Case in point:

- Zoro is a man with extremely strong convictions, will, and determination (as in, it would take a lot to stray him away from his beliefs: i.e. why he was imprisoned in the first place for his introduction; why he refused to step back with a dagger so close to his heart; why he would not let himself receive a wound to his back; etc; some more etcs).​

- He was first against being a pirate and joining Luffy, as he initially equated all pirates to be automatically evil, something that we see in just about every arc.
- Without bashing the public mass too much, society as a whole kind of needs someone else to provide for them, protect them, and most dangerously, think for them. Luffy always responds when asked, "are you a good guy or bad guy?" with "you decide for yourself". As in, "I'm not gonna think for you, you think for yourself and come to your own conclusion".
- Zoro never needed anyone else to think for him, or to tell him what is right and wrong (not right and left though). -After seeing what kind of person Luffy is, as well as Captain Morgan, he realizes that "society's labels" does not mean much. Just because someone is a "pirate" does not necessarily mean anything by itself. It is, "what kind of pirate (person) are you?" that really matters.
- Ultimately, his goal is to be the greatest swordsman, and despite however the government/society might view him for becoming a pirate, that does not have anything to do with this goal of his.

- More importantly, joining Luffy would NEVER conflict with his morals/character; as a matter of fact, he is not in the slightest bit troubled by the fact that he is now a "subordinate" to another person. We can perhaps translate this as Zoro saying, "this person, who puts his life on the line for the sake of others, and for his dreams (something that Zoro himself is all about), is worth following. This person, I can give my life for, because I know he will give his life for mine."

- On that note, I don't think Zoro, or anyone else for that matter, decided to follow Luffy for who he is as a captain. Rather, they follow Luffy for who he is as a person, because quite honestly, his captain-skills kind of suck (Jinbei shocked at Luffy's lack of care over "important" information; musician > doctor; using up all of their current food supplies to invent a poison curry).
- Whatever counterarguments anyone can think of, ask yourself, does that translate to his abilities as a captain? or does it translate to who Luffy is as a person (i.e. punching that celestial dragon).
​

- Obviously in Thriller Bark we see that Zoro is indeed ready to give his life for Luffy.
- But actions like that, I think is somewhat obvious. I think what was more insightful about Zoro as a person, and just as cool, is in Water 7, during Luffy and Usopp's initial argument, and after their fight.
- Looking past all his silliness, Luffy is still the same person that Zoro decided to be a subordinate to. Regardless, I think Zoro understands that as a captain, Luffy is far from ideal.

- As a matter of fact, Bege is surprised that Nami, Chopper, Brook, Carrot, and Jinbei [and Pedro] are able to survive so long without their captain... but from the readers' viewpoint, it makes sense.
- Not necessarily because they're skilled individuals, but the readers' understanding that the reason that they are such skilled individuals in the first place is in part because of all the craziness Luffy inflicts upon his crew.​

- We see Zoro step in to help Luffy understand about certain aspects of being a captain.

- "This is not a child's game". "That's what a captain is." "Even though he's such an idiot, He is our "Captain". "
​

- BUT, Zoro states that he cannot respect a person who does not respect himself, and that he himself will be the next to LEAVE IF Luffy does something that indicates that Luffy's level of self-respect is not one that is becoming of the next Pirate King; of a person that Zoro has placed as his direct and only superior.​

Cut to the Fishman Island Arc

- After Luffy uses his conqueror's haki to take out the 50,000 fishmen, Zoro says something like, 'if he wasn't able to, we would need to get a new captain".
- Zoro DOES NOT SAY that he will LEAVE. Instead (imo), that they need to select a new captain, one capable of using Conqueror's Haki (hello foreshadowing).​

- Even if Luffy's captain skills are not perfect, Zoro will stands by him.
- Even if Luffy were not able to use Conqueror's Haki, Zoro does not say that he'll leave, but instead [jokingly?] that they need a new captain...
- However, if Luffy does not have enough self-respect, Zoro is gone.

- Because how you can respect someone who does not respect themselves?
​

*Sorry for the long-ass post... it's only part 1 too I decided. But I'm not trying to come back here every day for this, so I wanted to create one bulletproof argument.

THE POINT so far in Part 1 was to dig a little bit into Zoro's mindset.
As was mentioned a few times, Zoro is a person with incredible and fearsome powers. So much so that onlookers become even more wary of the man who was able to "subdue" this fearsome beast and place him under his command.
- If all Zoro cared about was power, he would've jumped ship at the sight of the first pirate stronger than Luffy.
- "Oh, but he would never do that!!!"
- Why not? Because he's a Strawhat. And there's more to being a Strawhat than raw power.
- If all that mattered was raw power, than SH pirates would consist of the strongest pirates

- There would still be a hierarchy in terms of power. But would it be as big as it is with some of the current SH members? Seriously, aside from Zoro and maybe Sanji....and Franky... cuz i'm a guy and robots....and probably Robin cuz backstory... (imma stop before I fully contradict myself) in terms of raw power, who in the SH pirates would you NOT TRADE LAW FOR??!?!?!? Like seriously? fucking Law?!?!?
​

To then conclude, Zoro himself cares more about just strength and power. During Usopp's intro arc, they all acknowledged Usopp to be part of their crew before all was said and done. They all saw the lengths Usopp was willing to go for what was important. That mattered the most.

Obviously, the degree in which Usopp would go for the sake of others is not comparable to Luffy's. As a matter of fact, we have to wait until Usopp outruns his cowardice for him to do anything. But his initial instinct is selfish (sigh.... this guy was not for helping the Tontattas until the bitter end.... you disappoint me greatly sighhhhhh).
Luffy has a big heart. It is clear to everyone he interacts with (even Buggy during Impel Down saw this... i cannot wait for the day he gets exposed).
What they come away with is that Luffy is a person worth following. But at the same time, it cannot be forgotten that it is his power that causes people to believe in him. But two separate things.
Big heart = worth following
Power = believable (if he had no power, and he were to say "I'm gonna become the Pirate King", it's like, yeah right you little shit, drop dead in Arlong Park)

Was it ever explicitly stated that Luffy is stronger than Zoro??
As in, Zoro follows Luffy because of his strength - Zoro believes Luffy will be the pirate king - but mainly because of Luffy's heart.
But where is it stated that the Pirate King has to be stronger than the Greatest Swordsman??? (don't get me started on Mihawk, that's an argument not worth going into).

What would have happened if Zoro's dream was to be the Pirate King as well?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2018 ---

Part 2

TL;DR - imo, not only is the "unkillable" Kaidou going to lose to, but he is going to DIE to [blank] YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

The measure of power between Luffy and Zoro.

There was a brief fight between Luffy and Zoro in Whiskey Peak (how did i remember that name).

I initially thought Zoro would win, but that it also wasn't a fair fight, because swords > rubber (you swear it's not? like really? dont come at me with that gear 4 tank man shit, you swear rubber > sword??) .
That conundrum was definitely confusing to say the least.

If Zoro is able to beat Luffy, does that make him stronger than Luffy? Or is it due to the inherent advantage that swords have over rubber? However, that is also the choice of fighting style that they decided to pursue.
In the end, you cannot say something like that, "oh, he won because he was using weapons".
Otherwise, how can you say Luffy > Cracker? At the same time, it is acknowledged within Big Mom's crew that [using the more badass name] Katakuri > Cracker. And we all know by now Luffy > Katakuri. So using fighter math, Luffy > Cracker... except it was 2v1.

Can you say then that Luffy > Enel? By the same logic that using swords against rubber isn't fair, the same can be said about rubber against lightning (... right? lol i'd still take lightning any day).

So then, despite the inherent advantage that swords have over rubber, that is NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION in the outcome of a fight between Luffy and Zoro. Whoever wins, wins.

But of course, that fight was never concluded, and it was an even match throughout because fan-service.

NEXT, CP9. The CP9 members had a very explicit ranking system regarding their powers. There was a pretty big gap between #1 and #2, to the point that it is pretty definitive that Luffy > Zoro by way of their opponent.
Even when you take into consideration that Luffy was by far more injured than Zoro at the end of it.

As a matter of fact, it always seemed that Luffy was #1, and that Zoro and Sanji were #2a and #2b.

After the time-skip, that dynamic seemed to have changed, drastically as well.

Starting from the Fishman Island Arc, what Zoro did in the arc seemed to be significantly stronger than what Sanji did in the arc. Whether it be one-shotting Hodi underwater, or his complete manhandling of those "unbreakable shells", what Zoro did was very impressive and awe-inspiring... whereas with Sanji... meh. He didn't even 1v1 anyone, which I thought was stupid...

Punk Hazard... Foreal?? Zoro all day. Sanji barely even fought. Just got another frame of his leg being broken and pervert all day (speaking of which, I like nami pre-time-skip more, she's being sexualized way too much). After getting his leg broken, I doubt he would've been able to beat Vergo, let alone keep up in a fight.
Meanwhile, while Monet was undoubtedly not the strongest of opponents, the way in which Zoro did it.... seconds please!!

Dressrosa - This part was hard for me to take in. The SH kinda barely won out. However, if you just disregard artificial rankings and labels, like Shichibukai, Yonkou, Admiral, this arc is a much easier pill to swallow.
Mainly, Luffy barely beat Doflamingo. Yeah, Luffy's stronger now for sure, but still, that fight was close af.
NOT TO MENTION, if he didn't have that 10 minute rest, during which Doflamingo was still using up his stamina, then wtf, probably Doflamingo would've won.
Going back to Sanji, yeah he did not stand a chance against Doflamingo. It was to the point that I was thinking that the SH are not ready yet.

However, i think things were slightly exaggerated. Specifically that Kaidou would've put a beatdown on Doflamingo. I think Kaidou is definitely stronger than Doflamingo, but i am not sure if it is to THAT degree.
I think the main argument that Kaidou is >>> Doflamingo to the 1000000^10000000 power is that one's a Shichibukai and the other is a Yonkou. Whatever.

Regardless, about Sanji, damn, I really was thinking he fell off hard. And well, his training was more centered around "cooking". He had to fight some okamas to get the recipes to that special cooking, but in the end, that's not really comparable to what Zoro went through.
In terms of raw power, Zoro got the massive direct power-up, but Sanji got more of an ancillary power-up (as in, he can fly and move faster now, and those are great skills to have, but as was the case when Sanji fought Vergo, he lacks the power, or oomph, necessary to actually damage the heavyweights).

HOWEVER, now that Sanji has his raid suit, I feel better (lol).

Back to the main point, Zoro. Whose relationship to Luffy in terms of power was somewhat ambiguous before, I would say is even more ambiguous now. This guy has barely been trying since the time-skip.
Pica? lol okay. The argument when it comes to Zoro vs Pica is if it is considered a one-shot or not.

And how big is the gap between Pica and Vergo? So then Zoro has to two-shot Vergo, big deal. (thank oda for that raid suit)

"WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR POINT? you WROTE A DAMN ESSAY" - yea, college did that to me, shut up


All these labels mean nothing. Just like a pirate does not make you a bad person, being a Yonkou, or a Shichibukai, or even an Admiral does not mean anything in itself.

- Smoker said there are many in the Marines higher-ranked than him, despite being only as strong as him.
- Buggy....

- Most importantly, Garp
With the whole Whitebeard vs Akainu, ppl be freaking the eff out.
An Admiral can't take out a Yonkou???

So then a Vice-Admiral DEFINITELY couldn't be on par with Gol D. Roger right?
then wtf was Garp?


Soooo, Rayleigh can use conqueror's, but you're telling me it's unreasonable that Zoro will never be able to?? if he is not already able?

- People always talk about this "fearsome, scary" aura that Zoro projects
- his conqueror's haki could manifest slightly differently

- doesn't overwhelm others' spirit so much as he terrifies it to unconsciousness​

Who is to say that Luffy is even THAT much stronger than Zoro, if .. if at all??
- i just spent way too long writing about how Zoro is following Luffy not because of raw strength, but because of his character

Is it unreasonable for the Pirate King's right-hand man to be able to take on a Yonkou??
When it comes to Yonkou rankings, i think, people are saying Big Mom is the weakest? Why?
because the Shanks fanboys won't allow him to be the weakest?
because being unkillable == strongest?
probably not Blackbeard tho.... unless it turns out that some other Yonkou is the true evil, as theorized by some theorists??

Obviously One Piece has been very linear in terms of enemy difficulty. As in, there is a steady increase in the opponents' level, that magically coincides with the SH current power level so that they can get stronger from the fight, but won't die.
Otherwise, there wouldn't be a manga about them (just say this about a lot of things to overlook plotholes and such. "yea, they got "lucky" that they got a random and massive power-up just in the nick of time. however, if there wasn't, and they lost, THEN THERE WOULDNT BE A MOVIE ABOUT THEM. They live because it's in the script)
Clearly, the SH crew did NOT FIGHT Big Mom's crew. Luffy fought Cracker, then Katakuri, that's it.

However, the SH are most definitely about to get down with Kaidou's crew in full force (especially now with Sanji's delayed time-skip power-up).
Saying it like this, yea probably Luffy vs Kaidou is how it's gonna go down.

BUT MY GOODNESS, despite Luffy's glorious moments so far, you're telling me Wano, island of samurais, does not scream Zoro everywhere?
Yes, there was that injury from Hawkins that Zoro got... that disappeared in seconds!! Injuries he got while they were retreating, and Zoro was shielding Tama (so cute!)
Besides, when did Zoro ever have to rest as long as Luffy did after a fight anyways??

Also, in terms of linear progression, you can say that Kaidou is the "weakest" in terms of strength, and that what makes him special is that he DOES NOT DIE. (i'm not saying that this is necessarily the case, unless explicitly state.... and don't say bounty to be an EXACT measure of strength, more like a range).

If Kaidou cannot die because nothing works on him... specifically, swords break on contact... that to me sounds like Zoro bait.

because Kaidou is not using a sword, i think that is what is deterring me from saying with absolute certainty. However, fighting/beating/killing someone that is unkillable sounds like a challenge meant for Zoro, even though I know killing is not their thing.

At the very least, get your weak ass argument that Zoro can't take on AT LEAST Jack out of here.

Edit* syntax, grammar
Edit2* - Next Arc: SH vs Big Mom @ Elbaf
- btw, Big Mom's dream to eat together at eye level is bs. she ate the cake by herself didn't she?

 

[King Moe]

So if someone has a different opinion against yours, they are automatically a 'hater' and they must hate you and the character, right? Lol, Kid please take your fanboy talk to someone else who cares. I love Zoro, but I don't overhype him which some of his fanboys like you do. If you think Zoro can defeat Jack and then go on to defeat Shogun, that won't happened. Zoro with his progress especially what he has shown in NW, shown he is capable of doing that as ever serious opponent he try to face like Fujitora, Doflamingo (His Birdcage), Hawkins, etc. he doesn't have what it takes. Now allowed me to counter your statements.

"Zoro is the most mature with him #1 and Robin #2". Lol, yep you true fanboy as Zoro is not that mature. Robin I can agree with (Maybe in another position, but still in Top 5), but Zoro's character has not mature that deeply with his character as seeing in NW and also how he is the one to start 'trouble' first in Wano despite he is the one who said "Quit fooling around! We are in the New World now!". The man had the Shusui Sword that Kinemon told him how he and his people and again to his face that he shouldn't attack officials, but did anyway and now Kaido and the others probably know the Strawhats are here because of him. Zoro has his moments in certain arcs, yes like those and he does have maturity, but not #1 of all Strawhats. That is stretching too much. His actions in Wano take away the maturity your diehard praising about.

Also what this about putting a resume on Zoro? I know his character too. I never doubt he has some thinking and maturity, he is first mate (Well technically Nami is due to Luffy meeting her first, but I guess unofficial) and would be his vice captain to take lead (Though who in the right mind would trust him with directions? That's where Sanji and Nami come in to help Lead with him XD). Also none of your points proves or mention Zoro is above Luffy or that close to his power. Zoro has always face the weaker subordinates or second-in-command while Luffy faces of leaders and bosses. There are times Zoro have face the boss at times, but he usually lose to him or realize he is no match for them like Buggy, Arlong, Mr.3, Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Oars and Moria, Kuma, Doflamingo, and so on. Luffy defeated majority of these guys himself in one on one (Won't fault Zoro with Oars and Moria and Kuma since I know the situations for those fights, but he still majorly lose to the boss character while Luffy defeats them) while Zoro didn't stood a chance. That shows that Zoro isn't at Luffy lvl even pre-timeskip.

So far in post-timeskip, it's still the case. Zoro hasn't shown any capabilities he is above Luffy or even close. He fought weaker subordinates while Luffy still face stronger characters. Please don't come at me and say "Oh, but Zoro had a easier time with them compare to Luffy". Of course he did, they were "weak". Not because Zoro was that strong. Luffy can even beat them. Would you compare Hody to Doflamingo at the same lvl? Heck no, cause it's beyond by infinite miles. Until they face opponents at the same lvl, the talk can be different, but so far it been that case with Zoro. He hasn't had a serious challenge at all to anyone and when he did, he get his ass handed to him more than them. Fujitora slammed him with ease, Zoro after cutting the gigantic stone Pica, couldn't cut Birdcage which was stupid, he got knockout by the Yeti Brothers, got freaking hit by nails.....NAILS by Hawkins to his body with ease and he even compliment Hawkins's power. He even needed medical treatment for it and your saying he can take on Shogun and Jack (The man who took a huge trunk from a gigantic elephant and still kept conscious and head back to Wano)....? Dude, your fanboyism is apparent, please stop as no one agrees with you except for the most known troll poster, Shasha.

Also please stop using pre-timeskip events to help prove that Zoro is stronger or can take Luffy now, cause we are in post-timeskip now and so far Luffy is still beyond stronger, he won't use Gear 4 to fight him off from how it looks with his fights. Blade vs Rubber is stupid as again Luffy has Haki, he is fine. Saying Zoro has stronger Haki to cut through is more your opinion than factual.

Lol and now your want to enforce how tough he is and bashing Sanji? Yep, your probably one of those Zorotards from Youtube:

Fishman Island Arc - Dude, Sanji defeated and kick the Watsumadi with ease even Jimbei assisted. It didn't look like both needed each other to fight him off seeing how they hit him around with ease. Please stop. Both handle their opponents with ease

Punk Hazard - I am guessing you like to pick and choose scenes, right? Cause from what I remember in the arc, wasn't Zoro taken out by the Yeti Brothers who Law easily defeated? Yeah he was. Also if your comparing Monet to Vergo, you already lost facts in this debate lol. Monet was easy, Vergo was hard. It was obvious Sanji had the harder opponent than Zoro, please stop. Zoro won't do what he did to Monet to Vergo at all. Also 'broken bone' thing is getting old. Remember Usopp and Harjudan? Two guys who have much horrible fractures compare to Sanji and won their fights? So how is now a bad case for Sanji? Did Sanji left the fight? Did he got beaten? No, Vergo left and Sanji fight him until the end and Sanji even ran with the same leg with no issues at all. Sanji would have win the fight with a struggle, but still win. So yeah, nice try on that. Zoro isn't beast as your overhyping him to be.

Dressrosa - I accept the Doflamingo lost that Sanji has, but mostly he don't know his abilities and Doflamingo is a boss character, he wasn't going to go down easy. Look what he did to Law and beaten him down a few times and Luffy struggle with him too. Zoro couldn't even cut his Birdcage, so it's no shame for Sanji to lose to him. It took combination of things for Luffy to beat him, so Idk your point here to try to say Sanji is 'weak', when not really. Nothing wrong in both their training sessions and while yeah Zoro is trained by Mihawk, but he hasn't shown abilities he has surpassed him at all especially so far with serious fights. The man trained by Mihawk, but got hit by nails with ease? That's a disgrace as a Swordsman really. Both Sanji and Zoro aren't that far apart as we have yet to see more of their full power, so you truly can't put Zoro on Luffy still in our talk.

So now back to our main point, Pica while he give a feat of Zoro cutting giant tone, it's not that impressive since we know since pre-timeskip he can cut large stones and buildings. If he cut down someone like Diamond or Crystal, we will be talking, but it's not that amazing especially the fight wasn't a 'true' fight for Zoro. Just a hide and seek as Pica was dodging and ducking him until the end. You can't really compare him to Vergo as Vergo is more face-to-face combat guy, so he would be much more physical stronger than Pica. Zoro would not have a greater time with him at all. Evidence doesn't shown so far at the time he could beat him.

When did I say Zoro is incapable of having Conqueror's Haki? I see him as a candidate just like others I know that could have it like Sanji and others. Though he hasn't shown he has it or not yet. You have to see it to show it's true instead of just thinking it would happen. Please calm down, your taking this way too seriously and your grammar is taking a hit in your writing as you aren't calm. Also Zoro in his fights had resting moments too, not just Luffy as I remember with Mr. 1 fight he had a moment before cutting up the guy and during the Kaku fight and so on. Both their fights of struggle and resting, but still Luffy took on stronger opponents than Zoro end of the day.

"Yeah, he was injured by Hawkins, but the injured disappear in seconds after!".......They just said in the chapter, he needed medical treatment.....Do you even read all chapters and remember them all? Your seriously not having anyone agree with you at all. Your fanboyism is too apparent man. Also please don't use the excuse "He needed to protect Tama! So that's why he tank them!" Zoro has Haki. Your telling me he couldn't use it to predict and block all the nails or even Armament his body to protect his body from injuries? He is incapable of doing that? I know Zoro is stupid at times, but he shouldn't be that stupid. It makes him look bad and even worse as you guys don't try to accept it, but use some sad excuse which doesn't justify it even if he was protecting her or not. Speaking of which, she didn't need it since Luffy is there and was holding onto her, so she was fine either way. This make Zoro look bad and hardly in competition with Jack and try to beat him and then Shogun. He isn't Superman, he still has his limits. Shogun is his only ideal opponent, so learn to deal with it and someone's opinion.

Luffy and Sanji has more sense to face him since Luffy will probably face a Calamity before facing Kaido and could happen. Saying he can't face him due to him being the 'right-hand man' (Which is unconfirmed since we haven't seen the other Calamities and how strong they are compare to Jack) doesn't make sense since he already face Cracker and Katakuri who were close higher-ups and children to Big Mom especially Katakuri as the right-hand man for her crew. Your point is invalid and your trying to justify why Zoro will face him which I don't see happening compare to Luffy facing him. Sanji and Jack have history a bit due to the Zou situation and he probably know Sanji through him defeating his subordinate Sheephead and could be much after him and Sanji's group. Since others want Sanji to have a more serious fight to the end, Jack would be a great opponent for him and development of strength for him.

Also....Lol....Did you just say you now see Zoro facing Kaido and being the one to defeat and kill Kaido? Yep, your clearly delusional and fanboying to the extreme. The man who needed medical treatment vs the guy who can't be kill or harm? Please stop, Kid. Your not making too much sense to justify your side. Learn to use actual facts than opinions and fanboyism to lead your direction please. It will help you speak with others in reasonable conversation than this. A word of advice from me, no hate to you at all. The conversation is over, so let talk on something else please on chapter subject.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2018 ---

So is the theory that Momosuke and the others are much older than they appear and think Bonney had something to do with changing their ages around? Do you all really think she had a hand in this?

 

[King Moe]

Did anyone seen on Youtube about that mini-movie of OP that hasn't been shown publicity yet?

 

[goldb]

Did anyone seen on Youtube about that mini-movie of OP that hasn't been shown publicity yet?

You mean this one?

 

[mercsii]

So if someone has a different opinion against yours, they are automatically a 'hater' and they must hate you and the character, right? Lol, Kid please take your fanboy talk to someone else who cares. I love Zoro, but I don't overhype him which some of his fanboys like you do. If you think Zoro can defeat Jack and then go on to defeat Shogun, that won't happened. Zoro with his progress especially what he has shown in NW, shown he is capable of doing that as ever serious opponent he try to face like Fujitora, Doflamingo (His Birdcage), Hawkins, etc. he doesn't have what it takes. Now allowed me to counter your statements.

"Zoro is the most mature with him #1 and Robin #2". Lol, yep you true fanboy as Zoro is not that mature. Robin I can agree with (Maybe in another position, but still in Top 5), but Zoro's character has not mature that deeply with his character as seeing in NW and also how he is the one to start 'trouble' first in Wano despite he is the one who said "Quit fooling around! We are in the New World now!". The man had the Shusui Sword that Kinemon told him how he and his people and again to his face that he shouldn't attack officials, but did anyway and now Kaido and the others probably know the Strawhats are here because of him. Zoro has his moments in certain arcs, yes like those and he does have maturity, but not #1 of all Strawhats. That is stretching too much. His actions in Wano take away the maturity your diehard praising about.

Also what this about putting a resume on Zoro? I know his character too. I never doubt he has some thinking and maturity, he is first mate (Well technically Nami is due to Luffy meeting her first, but I guess unofficial) and would be his vice captain to take lead (Though who in the right mind would trust him with directions? That's where Sanji and Nami come in to help Lead with him XD). Also none of your points proves or mention Zoro is above Luffy or that close to his power. Zoro has always face the weaker subordinates or second-in-command while Luffy faces of leaders and bosses. There are times Zoro have face the boss at times, but he usually lose to him or realize he is no match for them like Buggy, Arlong, Mr.3, Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Oars and Moria, Kuma, Doflamingo, and so on. Luffy defeated majority of these guys himself in one on one (Won't fault Zoro with Oars and Moria and Kuma since I know the situations for those fights, but he still majorly lose to the boss character while Luffy defeats them) while Zoro didn't stood a chance. That shows that Zoro isn't at Luffy lvl even pre-timeskip.

So far in post-timeskip, it's still the case. Zoro hasn't shown any capabilities he is above Luffy or even close. He fought weaker subordinates while Luffy still face stronger characters. Please don't come at me and say "Oh, but Zoro had a easier time with them compare to Luffy". Of course he did, they were "weak". Not because Zoro was that strong. Luffy can even beat them. Would you compare Hody to Doflamingo at the same lvl? Heck no, cause it's beyond by infinite miles. Until they face opponents at the same lvl, the talk can be different, but so far it been that case with Zoro. He hasn't had a serious challenge at all to anyone and when he did, he get his ass handed to him more than them. Fujitora slammed him with ease, Zoro after cutting the gigantic stone Pica, couldn't cut Birdcage which was stupid, he got knockout by the Yeti Brothers, got freaking hit by nails.....NAILS by Hawkins to his body with ease and he even compliment Hawkins's power. He even needed medical treatment for it and your saying he can take on Shogun and Jack (The man who took a huge trunk from a gigantic elephant and still kept conscious and head back to Wano)....? Dude, your fanboyism is apparent, please stop as no one agrees with you except for the most known troll poster, Shasha.

Also please stop using pre-timeskip events to help prove that Zoro is stronger or can take Luffy now, cause we are in post-timeskip now and so far Luffy is still beyond stronger, he won't use Gear 4 to fight him off from how it looks with his fights. Blade vs Rubber is stupid as again Luffy has Haki, he is fine. Saying Zoro has stronger Haki to cut through is more your opinion than factual.

Lol and now your want to enforce how tough he is and bashing Sanji? Yep, your probably one of those Zorotards from Youtube:

Fishman Island Arc - Dude, Sanji defeated and kick the Watsumadi with ease even Jimbei assisted. It didn't look like both needed each other to fight him off seeing how they hit him around with ease. Please stop. Both handle their opponents with ease

Punk Hazard - I am guessing you like to pick and choose scenes, right? Cause from what I remember in the arc, wasn't Zoro taken out by the Yeti Brothers who Law easily defeated? Yeah he was. Also if your comparing Monet to Vergo, you already lost facts in this debate lol. Monet was easy, Vergo was hard. It was obvious Sanji had the harder opponent than Zoro, please stop. Zoro won't do what he did to Monet to Vergo at all. Also 'broken bone' thing is getting old. Remember Usopp and Harjudan? Two guys who have much horrible fractures compare to Sanji and won their fights? So how is now a bad case for Sanji? Did Sanji left the fight? Did he got beaten? No, Vergo left and Sanji fight him until the end and Sanji even ran with the same leg with no issues at all. Sanji would have win the fight with a struggle, but still win. So yeah, nice try on that. Zoro isn't beast as your overhyping him to be.

Dressrosa - I accept the Doflamingo lost that Sanji has, but mostly he don't know his abilities and Doflamingo is a boss character, he wasn't going to go down easy. Look what he did to Law and beaten him down a few times and Luffy struggle with him too. Zoro couldn't even cut his Birdcage, so it's no shame for Sanji to lose to him. It took combination of things for Luffy to beat him, so Idk your point here to try to say Sanji is 'weak', when not really. Nothing wrong in both their training sessions and while yeah Zoro is trained by Mihawk, but he hasn't shown abilities he has surpassed him at all especially so far with serious fights. The man trained by Mihawk, but got hit by nails with ease? That's a disgrace as a Swordsman really. Both Sanji and Zoro aren't that far apart as we have yet to see more of their full power, so you truly can't put Zoro on Luffy still in our talk.

So now back to our main point, Pica while he give a feat of Zoro cutting giant tone, it's not that impressive since we know since pre-timeskip he can cut large stones and buildings. If he cut down someone like Diamond or Crystal, we will be talking, but it's not that amazing especially the fight wasn't a 'true' fight for Zoro. Just a hide and seek as Pica was dodging and ducking him until the end. You can't really compare him to Vergo as Vergo is more face-to-face combat guy, so he would be much more physical stronger than Pica. Zoro would not have a greater time with him at all. Evidence doesn't shown so far at the time he could beat him.

When did I say Zoro is incapable of having Conqueror's Haki? I see him as a candidate just like others I know that could have it like Sanji and others. Though he hasn't shown he has it or not yet. You have to see it to show it's true instead of just thinking it would happen. Please calm down, your taking this way too seriously and your grammar is taking a hit in your writing as you aren't calm. Also Zoro in his fights had resting moments too, not just Luffy as I remember with Mr. 1 fight he had a moment before cutting up the guy and during the Kaku fight and so on. Both their fights of struggle and resting, but still Luffy took on stronger opponents than Zoro end of the day.

"Yeah, he was injured by Hawkins, but the injured disappear in seconds after!".......They just said in the chapter, he needed medical treatment.....Do you even read all chapters and remember them all? Your seriously not having anyone agree with you at all. Your fanboyism is too apparent man. Also please don't use the excuse "He needed to protect Tama! So that's why he tank them!" Zoro has Haki. Your telling me he couldn't use it to predict and block all the nails or even Armament his body to protect his body from injuries? He is incapable of doing that? I know Zoro is stupid at times, but he shouldn't be that stupid. It makes him look bad and even worse as you guys don't try to accept it, but use some sad excuse which doesn't justify it even if he was protecting her or not. Speaking of which, she didn't need it since Luffy is there and was holding onto her, so she was fine either way. This make Zoro look bad and hardly in competition with Jack and try to beat him and then Shogun. He isn't Superman, he still has his limits. Shogun is his only ideal opponent, so learn to deal with it and someone's opinion.

Luffy and Sanji has more sense to face him since Luffy will probably face a Calamity before facing Kaido and could happen. Saying he can't face him due to him being the 'right-hand man' (Which is unconfirmed since we haven't seen the other Calamities and how strong they are compare to Jack) doesn't make sense since he already face Cracker and Katakuri who were close higher-ups and children to Big Mom especially Katakuri as the right-hand man for her crew. Your point is invalid and your trying to justify why Zoro will face him which I don't see happening compare to Luffy facing him. Sanji and Jack have history a bit due to the Zou situation and he probably know Sanji through him defeating his subordinate Sheephead and could be much after him and Sanji's group. Since others want Sanji to have a more serious fight to the end, Jack would be a great opponent for him and development of strength for him.

Also....Lol....Did you just say you now see Zoro facing Kaido and being the one to defeat and kill Kaido? Yep, your clearly delusional and fanboying to the extreme. The man who needed medical treatment vs the guy who can't be kill or harm? Please stop, Kid. Your not making too much sense to justify your side. Learn to use actual facts than opinions and fanboyism to lead your direction please. It will help you speak with others in reasonable conversation than this. A word of advice from me, no hate to you at all. The conversation is over, so let talk on something else please on chapter subject.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2018 ---

So is the theory that Momosuke and the others are much older than they appear and think Bonney had something to do with changing their ages around? Do you all really think she had a hand in this?

First... my bad about the hater comment. I should've added a jp or something because I wasn't trying to be serious about it at all. So sorry about that.

Now...
I actually think your argument is the one filled with contradictions and incorrect information...

1. Maturity level in SH - well i did say, "not respectively", so Zoro could've been #1 or #2 (but yea, changing my stance on that, oh so slightly)

- Reason I did not include Sanji is because his obsession with females is ridiculous. Also, in Skypiea, he kinda follows suit with the more "childlike" members when they jump into the cloud-ocean, which does say that he does have some youthful tendencies, more so than Zoro
- Nami, i think i would say #3 or #4, because of course, her obsession with money. And also, she definitely has a LOT of knowledge, but knowledge and maturity are not the same thing. With that being said, yea you can say I overlooked her a bit too much, mainly due to the fact that she's being sexualized so damn much (disappointing)
- Also, during the meeting in the Whale Room in Zou, when Luffy goes off on Momo for doing nothing buy cry (despite being this big-shot leader), Nami is the one who misunderstands the siutation (so does Usopp, one of the many reasons why I don't consider him mature ofc)
- ALSO, right at the end of the Water 7 arc, Nami does not even consider the repercussions of Usopp coming back to the crew as is, and Zoro is the only/main one who reminds the crew that it isn't a game they're playing, and that accepting Usopp back w.o. an apology might make it seem as if it is

- of course, the above two points may not speak about her maturity level, but just her misunderstanding of the situation
- but anyone could argue that it is speaking about her maturity level (not that she's immature, but just not as mature)​

- ALSO ALSO, despite Robin being a good person in the end, at the time of her joining the SH, that was not necessarily known. All of the members were quick to forget that Robin was their enemy, up until like 5 seconds ago (Nami was persuaded by treasure in between the time it took for her to hear the jingle of the treasure and for her eyes to confirm). and Zoro was the only one that kept in mind that trusting Robin mindlessly is unwise

- I KNOW we know that Robin is ultra-cool, but i'm talking specifically about when she joined the crew without much of a background check (actually forget the background check, it was common knowledge that she was an enemy from the arc that JUST TOOK PLACE).​

- ALSO ALSO ALSO, when Luffy, Nami, and Zoro were discussing the ramifications of Robin's actions during the first Iceberg assassination attempt, and what to do next, Zoro i think, keeps a clearer head than the others, making sure to keep track of ALL of the possible outcomes, not just the ones they WANT TO believe in (I KNOW i know, Robin was just trying to sacrifice herself for the crew's life gosh leave me alone)​

- I'm pretty sure you won't make an argument bout any of the other members, so I won't mention why I think everyone else is lower.
- So, I'd say Robin > Nami/Zoro/Sanji (not in order) > others

- Also... don't ever say something about Nami being vice-captain/first mate again.... if anything, you can pick Usopp to be closer to that role (more the first mate part, less the vice-captain part), considering that was what his initial concept was set out to be

- when it comes to the stability of the crew, Zoro holds it down far better than Nami, no? (and even Luffy in a sense, but that's what balance between Captain and First Mate/Right Hand/Vice Captain is all about)​

2. Your comments about Wano I think are dead wrong.
- "Quit fooling around! We are in the New World now!" - please, that comment was made in Punk Hazard.

- And I'm not sure if you understood why Zoro said that.
- Yes, Zoro and a couple others got "taken out" pretty easily by the Yeti Brothers through the use of Caesar's gas. Luffy got "taken out" by Caesar as well (in their first confrontation). So, in this context, what's so different?
- The fact that they BOTH got taken out by inferior fighters is what made Zoro say to Luffy, "Quit fooling around! We are in the New World now!". They got lucky they didn't die already; not only die, but die to weaker people just because they let their guards down (however, it is obviously in the script that they weren't gonna die. but if that's the case, why do writers include b.s. like this in the first place??? because the fact is, the only reason they're still alive is because their opponents were sloppy and/or stupid; in other words, pure luck is what the writers decided to go with for them not dying in PH)​

- Zoro getting into trouble in Wano, pre-Luffy's arrival

- Zoro gets framed for murders that the magistrate commits
- He then gets Shusui taken away, and is charged with grave-robbing on top of the murders (both of which are obv false)
- He realizes that the magistrate is the real culprit behind the murders (k bye magistrate)
---- Point: Zoro did not start a fight
- Also, even though this is a bit retroactive, Law points out that as an isolationist island, no one has any idea who the SH or Law's crew are
---- So, Zoro being a wanted criminal after killing the murderer-magistrate does not jeopardize their mission, because the conclusion that everyone will likely think of is that Zoro is affiliated with the Shutenmaru, or that he's just some random ronin
​

3. Pre-timeskip vs Post-timeskip
- you tell me to stop using pre-timeskip, but I don't even use it to the extent in which you do when you list off all the opponents Zoro "couldn't handle" that Luffy could. In other words, YOU STOP. lol

- out of all of the opponents that you named, the only one i even feel is worth validating is Enel. That was the only time Zoro fought the same opponent Luffy did and lost outright. Of course, this was due to the fact that they BOTH had no haki at this time, but Luffy had a natural advantage in this regard. However, i think if Zoro's power level was kept exactly the same at that point, and all you gave him was the ability to use armament haki, i think Zoro would've still lost to Enel because of all the things that Enel could do as the embodiment of lightning
- Same thing with Crocodile? I actually don't think so. about this though I will for sure mention later, but if Zoro put water on his swords, how would that be any different from Luffy covering himself with water​

- "That shows that Zoro isn't at Luffy lvl even pre-timeskip." - I think the clearest reference point, ONLY UP UNTIL THAT POINT, is Waipa

- Luffy and Zoro both fought Waipa, and they both came away thinking that Waipa is strong.
- Both fights were left inconclusive, as Luffy got swallowed by the snake, and Enel broke up Zoro vs Waipa fight​

- HOWEVER, the CP9 fight does validate that Luffy is #1, and that Zoro is #2[a and Sanji is #2b]

- ... which i already stated in my original post
- but not on the same level? i think the degree in which you're thinking of is different than mine​

MUST READ IF YOU'RE A THRILLER BARK HATER (let me try to persuade you)
- Skypiea and Thriller Bark arcs came off as more of a "pirate adventure" arc

- as opposed to Water 7, which was more of a "Strawhat Pirates" arc
- I know that's not very clear, but I kinda of separate the arcs by "do their bounties increase?" if it does, it's because they had some interaction with the World Government in some capacity. If it doesn't it's because it's more about adventure and treasure
- From the story line perspective, obviously we might care more about their interaction with the WG
- From a pirates perspective, obviously adventure and treasure is more interesting (considering they're pirates and not revolutionaries)
- Skypiea is an island in the sky; Thriller Bark was known as a Haunted Ghost Island

- Doesn't that SOUND MORE FUN?!?! (unless you're Usopp)​

- as readers, we care about different things than the actual characters; which might sound a little off, but not really

- would you rather go to Sky Island, Haunted Island, or Enies Lobby? (after peace was restored; even then Enies Lobby, is still some place I'd never go to... probably Haunted Island as well - if it was actually haunted and not a theme-park haunted)​

- with that out of the way, Thriller Bark was definitely to showcase the SH chemistry in combat

- Luffy does not fight anyone 1v1 with a definitive conclusion (i am excluding Nightmare Luffy)
- When Luffy finishes off Moria at the end, it's already a given that Moria lost, and that sucking in all those shadows only solidified the outcome because he wasn't going to be able to control all those shadows; it was just a CONVENIENCE so that there was a way to return EVERYONE'S shadows
​

4. Fujitora
- short and sweet. does Zoro get "slammed"? I mean, Fujitora destroyed the ground he was standing on, thereby causing Zoro to sink as well. Zoro then immediately retaliates, causing Fujitora to compliment his strength.
- we also see get to see Luffy skirmish with Fujitora a little bit, and well, nothing conclusive at all

5. Sanji, Vergo, Law and Zoro, Pica [and monet i guess]
- Law, after getting his heart back, ONESHOTS VERGO
- Zoro ONESHOTS PICA (even after cutting up the stone pieces, he does ONESHOT Haki-Pica). And with these opponents, it was less about Zoro winning, it was how he won (like a badass)

- "not that amazing especially the fight wasn't a 'true' fight for Zoro"
- i agree. Pica is not a match for Zoro.
- and Vergo was not a match for Law. so sanji is not a match for Law either then?
- Sanji's training < Zoro's training

- Sanji's training primarily revolved around him getting "cooking recipes" that would enhance the bodies of those who ate the cooking (sigh why am i repeating myself...)​

- I brought up Sanji as a tangent, because it was disappointing how not-strong he became (i didn't say weak, but not-strong, nuance). Because honestly, if he was adequate in terms of power level post-timeskip, he wouldn't need a raid suit (put in writing that he's not going to use it; IN WRITING I DARE YOU lol)

- I know it's far-fetched that Zoro fights Kaido
- the reason why i think he could is because i believe the RIGHT HAND MAN of the PIRATE KING, should be able to beat a Yonko (mainly because Rayleigh, although it's never stated just how strong Rayleigh is)
- with that being said, even more far-fetched is my next crazy theory (notice how i say crazy twice? cuz i know, so shut up about it lol):

- RAID-SUIT SANJI WILL BE THE ONE TO BEAT BIG MOM
- wouldn't that be a nice fan-service​

- I brought up Sanji's opponent in Fishman Island just because it was DISAPPOINTING he didn't 1v1 anyone (like why? wtf give him an opponent, he hasn't had a serious 1v1 all post-timeskip!! unless it's for a reason? perhaps because he needs a raid suit to take himself to the next-level that Zoro appears to be on already?? maybe, maybe not. but let's not forget Zoro is #1, and Sanji is #7 lol).

- Who the heck is Watsumadi supposed to be that he should be used as a reference for power level? loll. I think it was to indirectly use Jinbei as a reference? but still lame af, they should've both had their own opponents
​

6. "Zoro couldn't even cut his Birdcage"
- oh okay, and Luffy could? other then by beating up Mingo??
- oh btw, neither could Fujitora
- oh btw, take a lighter to a piece of string, light it and tell me what happens (aka where the fuck were you Sabo LOLL)

7a. "hit by nails with ease" - what does "with ease" mean? that's subjective and greatly exaggerated imo. Not to mention, Hawkins is a Supernova, so more or less equal to Law maybe (...nahhhhhh, a lot less)

- the only weak Headliners are the non-Supernovas, right?​

- Also, Zoro took a "life" from Hawkins, which Luffy did not do (obviously they weren't going all out, but nonetheless, if faulty evidence is going to be introduced, the other party will abuse)

7b. "That's a disgrace as a Swordsman really." - no, a wound to the back is a disgrace, which we KNOW FOR SURE, but who ever said anything about getting hit by NAILS SHOT FROM CLOSE RANGE?? while they were escaping with a wounded girl (so cute) to protect
- also, there's treatment, and then there's treatment (what Nami got in Drum island is treatment; what Zoro got is.... treatment)

8. Luffy vs Zoro pre-timeskip
- I was only referring to their fight in Whiskey Peak. SO why bring up all this haki stuff? When it comes down to it, in that fight, a cut from Zoro would definitely have been more fatal than a strike from Luffy to Zoro.
- But the way I presented that piece of information, I followed it up with instances of their progression, including the CP9 fights, and that by that point, it is pretty clear that Luffy is #1, and Zoro/Sanji #2a, #2b...
- and that that dynamic got more ambiguous after the timeskip (mainly cuz Sanji looking like he fell off, because, again, would he need the raid suit otherwise?? and again, I DARE YOU to say he's not going to use it, lol)

9. Why i talk about Zoro's mindset in my original post
- I wanted to point out, but did not do a very clear job of doing, that Zoro does a lot of things because HE'S ORDERED TO DO SO BY LUFFY (the point i was trying to make in my original post is that the reason he follows Luffy is not so much due to Luffy's strength, although he must be strong as well, but more to do with Luffy's character)

- such as, saving Smoker in Alabasta
- most recently, in ch. 918, handle the food cart while Luffy takes care of Holdem​

- SO, Zoro does a lot of things he's ordered to do by Luffy...
- INCLUDING, who to fight (or more accurately, who Zoro is not allowed to fight cuz Luffy called dibs)

- if Luffy told Zoro to take care of Holdem, Zoro would just as likely be able to oneshot that pos to oblivion​

- due to this, who is to say that Zoro couldn't defeat some of the opponents that Luffy did??

- SUCH AS CROCODILE
- why am i using specifically crocodile as an example?

- haki is not introduced at that point
- as opposed to Enel, there is no natural advantage Luffy has over Crocodile
- He won because he was able to overcome Crocodile's logia advantage
- we DO NOT KNOW if Zoro could or couldn't beat Crocodile had he just covered his swords with water​

- HOWEVER, i think, despite Crocodile's advantages of being a logia, Luffy ALWAYS KNEW he could beat Crocodile

- Actually, it's more like... Luffy "sensed" that his innate strength (haki) is greater than Crocodile's, therefore he was gonna defeat him sooner or later, it was just a matter of getting around the logia part
- so, if Crocodile was a PARAMECIA with sand abilities, Luffy would've been able to beat him in their very first fight (theoretically)
- in that line of thinking, i think Zoro would've been capable of the same (as in, he was already innately stronger than Crocodile, it was just due to the fact that Crocodile was a logia and that they didn't learn haki yet that made things more complicated)
​

10. Whole Cake arc vs Wano arc
- in whole cake island, as was mentioned by the character themselves repeatedly, they were not there to fight Big Mom, and that if they were, they would've brought along Zoro and the rest of the crew
- Wano, they are most definitely gonna get down with Kaido's forces as a whole

- Due to that, i said it's ultimately more likely to be Luffy vs Kaido, but that it'd be cool af if it was Zoro instead
- i have been overlooking the Shogun for sure

- i just kinda thought of him as the first person to kiss ass, and therefore got to be Shogun and ruler, but yea, maybe not​

- it could be that Luffy fights the Shogun for his final battle, and instead Zoro fights Kaido

- i'm not saying it's more likely than Luffy vs Kaido, but then again, we're not here to talk about stats and probabilities​

- Zoro vs Jack could be very likely as well, considering at one point, Jack does unsheathe some kind of "swords"?

- but Jack doesn't appear to use them when going Zoan, so that's ambiguous​

- "Shogun is his only ideal opponent, so learn to deal with it and someone's opinion."

- whoa there, give a guy a chance to ignorantly turn down your "opinions"
- I think maybe Kinemon, Raizou, Kanjuro are the more appropriate opponents for the Shogun, considering we don't know exactly how strong he is​

- speaking of which, completely forgetting about Inu and Neko (dog and cat) ..... not to mention Marco...

​

... Objectively speaking, aside from the SH maturity levels, I don't think you make that many valid points, if at all.
- There's a lot of holes in your arguments, some of which stems from you not having clearly read the points i made previously (but if that's a clarity issue, my bad).
- But some of the more cringing points you make is from YOU not having clearly read the manga (if that's due to poor translations, it still wouldn't take away from the fact that it's your misunderstanding, not mine).

- like, it's a disgrace to get hit by nails?? that's a first. So, if you get shot by a nail gun, AT CLOSE RANGE, i'm guessing you're glad you're not living in feudal japan, otherwise you would have to commit seppuku (but then, how would they have access to a nail gun? ...)
- Fujitora slammed Zoro?? Zoro not being able to cut through the birdcage makes him look bad, but it doesn't matter that Fujitora can't cut it either??? and seriously rethink what fire is supposed to do to string

- wow at Sabo tunnel visioning... "I know Zoro is stupid at times, but he shouldn't be that stupid."
- so i guess that just means Sabo is even more stupid for not being able to think of BURNING THE STRING, and is also a pos for looking after ONLY Luffy (he can take care of himself; hello O-Kiku) and not the helpless civilians that the Revolutionary Army is primarily founded to look after. according to your logic, not mine​

- "Sanji and Jack have history a bit due to the Zou situation and he probably know Sanji through him defeating his subordinate Sheephead"

- lolllll. like Blackbeared, I doubt Jack is the kind of guy who cares about his "subordinates", especially when it's discovered how bad he got beat​

- using a quote from PH for Wano? which did not connect at all tbh

- and you're accusing me of cherry-picking
​

Idk if the reason there is so much vitriol in your post is due to my "hater" comment. I apologize. I meant to make it sarcastic, but that's not easy to pull off when communicating through a medium. As a matter of fact, all i was hoping to do was inject some humor in my posts, and NOT make any disparaging comments
Regardless, i think if you spent more time trying to gather proper evidence and valid points, and less time belittling someone, maybe there would have possibly been a proper debate (apologies if this is not the right place for a debate).
Also, why do you keep typing "Kid" with a capital 'K'?? It should be kid, no? unless "Kid" is my new name (sorry mom). Just thought it was kinda funny, not in a lol way, but in a lol? way
You should def proofread your writing beforehand. At times, I wondered if you're esl, and if not, you're a lot younger than me son teehee

Edit* so what if i am or am not fanboying Zoro? I don't believe I was being biased at all, especially considering that the point i was trying to make is that it is not impossible for Zoro to take on a Yonko (and Raid-Suit Sanji too)


TL;DR lol i have to make a prediction huh? i agree with the post saying that it's Apoo that Hawkins is communicating with. and that they'll TRADE ALLEGIANCE to the SH, and that as part of their alliance, they have to rescue Eustace Kidd as well

 

[King Moe]

You mean this one?

Yep! I wonder what it's about? Any ideas?

 

[King Moe]

First... my bad about the hater comment. I should've added a jp or something because I wasn't trying to be serious about it at all. So sorry about that.

Now...
I actually think your argument is the one filled with contradictions and incorrect information...

1. Maturity level in SH - well i did say, "not respectively", so Zoro could've been #1 or #2 (but yea, changing my stance on that, oh so slightly)

- Reason I did not include Sanji is because his obsession with females is ridiculous. Also, in Skypiea, he kinda follows suit with the more "childlike" members when they jump into the cloud-ocean, which does say that he does have some youthful tendencies, more so than Zoro
- Nami, i think i would say #3 or #4, because of course, her obsession with money. And also, she definitely has a LOT of knowledge, but knowledge and maturity are not the same thing. With that being said, yea you can say I overlooked her a bit too much, mainly due to the fact that she's being sexualized so damn much (disappointing)
- Also, during the meeting in the Whale Room in Zou, when Luffy goes off on Momo for doing nothing buy cry (despite being this big-shot leader), Nami is the one who misunderstands the siutation (so does Usopp, one of the many reasons why I don't consider him mature ofc)
- ALSO, right at the end of the Water 7 arc, Nami does not even consider the repercussions of Usopp coming back to the crew as is, and Zoro is the only/main one who reminds the crew that it isn't a game they're playing, and that accepting Usopp back w.o. an apology might make it seem as if it is

- of course, the above two points may not speak about her maturity level, but just her misunderstanding of the situation
- but anyone could argue that it is speaking about her maturity level (not that she's immature, but just not as mature)​

- ALSO ALSO, despite Robin being a good person in the end, at the time of her joining the SH, that was not necessarily known. All of the members were quick to forget that Robin was their enemy, up until like 5 seconds ago (Nami was persuaded by treasure in between the time it took for her to hear the jingle of the treasure and for her eyes to confirm). and Zoro was the only one that kept in mind that trusting Robin mindlessly is unwise

- I KNOW we know that Robin is ultra-cool, but i'm talking specifically about when she joined the crew without much of a background check (actually forget the background check, it was common knowledge that she was an enemy from the arc that JUST TOOK PLACE).​

- ALSO ALSO ALSO, when Luffy, Nami, and Zoro were discussing the ramifications of Robin's actions during the first Iceberg assassination attempt, and what to do next, Zoro i think, keeps a clearer head than the others, making sure to keep track of ALL of the possible outcomes, not just the ones they WANT TO believe in (I KNOW i know, Robin was just trying to sacrifice herself for the crew's life gosh leave me alone)​

- I'm pretty sure you won't make an argument bout any of the other members, so I won't mention why I think everyone else is lower.
- So, I'd say Robin > Nami/Zoro/Sanji (not in order) > others

- Also... don't ever say something about Nami being vice-captain/first mate again.... if anything, you can pick Usopp to be closer to that role (more the first mate part, less the vice-captain part), considering that was what his initial concept was set out to be

- when it comes to the stability of the crew, Zoro holds it down far better than Nami, no? (and even Luffy in a sense, but that's what balance between Captain and First Mate/Right Hand/Vice Captain is all about)​

2. Your comments about Wano I think are dead wrong.
- "Quit fooling around! We are in the New World now!" - please, that comment was made in Punk Hazard.

- And I'm not sure if you understood why Zoro said that.
- Yes, Zoro and a couple others got "taken out" pretty easily by the Yeti Brothers through the use of Caesar's gas. Luffy got "taken out" by Caesar as well (in their first confrontation). So, in this context, what's so different?
- The fact that they BOTH got taken out by inferior fighters is what made Zoro say to Luffy, "Quit fooling around! We are in the New World now!". They got lucky they didn't die already; not only die, but die to weaker people just because they let their guards down (however, it is obviously in the script that they weren't gonna die. but if that's the case, why do writers include b.s. like this in the first place??? because the fact is, the only reason they're still alive is because their opponents were sloppy and/or stupid; in other words, pure luck is what the writers decided to go with for them not dying in PH)​

- Zoro getting into trouble in Wano, pre-Luffy's arrival

- Zoro gets framed for murders that the magistrate commits
- He then gets Shusui taken away, and is charged with grave-robbing on top of the murders (both of which are obv false)
- He realizes that the magistrate is the real culprit behind the murders (k bye magistrate)
---- Point: Zoro did not start a fight
- Also, even though this is a bit retroactive, Law points out that as an isolationist island, no one has any idea who the SH or Law's crew are
---- So, Zoro being a wanted criminal after killing the murderer-magistrate does not jeopardize their mission, because the conclusion that everyone will likely think of is that Zoro is affiliated with the Shutenmaru, or that he's just some random ronin
​

3. Pre-timeskip vs Post-timeskip
- you tell me to stop using pre-timeskip, but I don't even use it to the extent in which you do when you list off all the opponents Zoro "couldn't handle" that Luffy could. In other words, YOU STOP. lol

- out of all of the opponents that you named, the only one i even feel is worth validating is Enel. That was the only time Zoro fought the same opponent Luffy did and lost outright. Of course, this was due to the fact that they BOTH had no haki at this time, but Luffy had a natural advantage in this regard. However, i think if Zoro's power level was kept exactly the same at that point, and all you gave him was the ability to use armament haki, i think Zoro would've still lost to Enel because of all the things that Enel could do as the embodiment of lightning
- Same thing with Crocodile? I actually don't think so. about this though I will for sure mention later, but if Zoro put water on his swords, how would that be any different from Luffy covering himself with water​

- "That shows that Zoro isn't at Luffy lvl even pre-timeskip." - I think the clearest reference point, ONLY UP UNTIL THAT POINT, is Waipa

- Luffy and Zoro both fought Waipa, and they both came away thinking that Waipa is strong.
- Both fights were left inconclusive, as Luffy got swallowed by the snake, and Enel broke up Zoro vs Waipa fight​

- HOWEVER, the CP9 fight does validate that Luffy is #1, and that Zoro is #2[a and Sanji is #2b]

- ... which i already stated in my original post
- but not on the same level? i think the degree in which you're thinking of is different than mine​

MUST READ IF YOU'RE A THRILLER BARK HATER (let me try to persuade you)
- Skypiea and Thriller Bark arcs came off as more of a "pirate adventure" arc

- as opposed to Water 7, which was more of a "Strawhat Pirates" arc
- I know that's not very clear, but I kinda of separate the arcs by "do their bounties increase?" if it does, it's because they had some interaction with the World Government in some capacity. If it doesn't it's because it's more about adventure and treasure
- From the story line perspective, obviously we might care more about their interaction with the WG
- From a pirates perspective, obviously adventure and treasure is more interesting (considering they're pirates and not revolutionaries)
- Skypiea is an island in the sky; Thriller Bark was known as a Haunted Ghost Island

- Doesn't that SOUND MORE FUN?!?! (unless you're Usopp)​

- as readers, we care about different things than the actual characters; which might sound a little off, but not really

- would you rather go to Sky Island, Haunted Island, or Enies Lobby? (after peace was restored; even then Enies Lobby, is still some place I'd never go to... probably Haunted Island as well - if it was actually haunted and not a theme-park haunted)​

- with that out of the way, Thriller Bark was definitely to showcase the SH chemistry in combat

- Luffy does not fight anyone 1v1 with a definitive conclusion (i am excluding Nightmare Luffy)
- When Luffy finishes off Moria at the end, it's already a given that Moria lost, and that sucking in all those shadows only solidified the outcome because he wasn't going to be able to control all those shadows; it was just a CONVENIENCE so that there was a way to return EVERYONE'S shadows
​

4. Fujitora
- short and sweet. does Zoro get "slammed"? I mean, Fujitora destroyed the ground he was standing on, thereby causing Zoro to sink as well. Zoro then immediately retaliates, causing Fujitora to compliment his strength.
- we also see get to see Luffy skirmish with Fujitora a little bit, and well, nothing conclusive at all

5. Sanji, Vergo, Law and Zoro, Pica [and monet i guess]
- Law, after getting his heart back, ONESHOTS VERGO
- Zoro ONESHOTS PICA (even after cutting up the stone pieces, he does ONESHOT Haki-Pica). And with these opponents, it was less about Zoro winning, it was how he won (like a badass)

- "not that amazing especially the fight wasn't a 'true' fight for Zoro"
- i agree. Pica is not a match for Zoro.
- and Vergo was not a match for Law. so sanji is not a match for Law either then?
- Sanji's training < Zoro's training

- Sanji's training primarily revolved around him getting "cooking recipes" that would enhance the bodies of those who ate the cooking (sigh why am i repeating myself...)​

- I brought up Sanji as a tangent, because it was disappointing how not-strong he became (i didn't say weak, but not-strong, nuance). Because honestly, if he was adequate in terms of power level post-timeskip, he wouldn't need a raid suit (put in writing that he's not going to use it; IN WRITING I DARE YOU lol)

- I know it's far-fetched that Zoro fights Kaido
- the reason why i think he could is because i believe the RIGHT HAND MAN of the PIRATE KING, should be able to beat a Yonko (mainly because Rayleigh, although it's never stated just how strong Rayleigh is)
- with that being said, even more far-fetched is my next crazy theory (notice how i say crazy twice? cuz i know, so shut up about it lol):

- RAID-SUIT SANJI WILL BE THE ONE TO BEAT BIG MOM
- wouldn't that be a nice fan-service​

- I brought up Sanji's opponent in Fishman Island just because it was DISAPPOINTING he didn't 1v1 anyone (like why? wtf give him an opponent, he hasn't had a serious 1v1 all post-timeskip!! unless it's for a reason? perhaps because he needs a raid suit to take himself to the next-level that Zoro appears to be on already?? maybe, maybe not. but let's not forget Zoro is #1, and Sanji is #7 lol).

- Who the heck is Watsumadi supposed to be that he should be used as a reference for power level? loll. I think it was to indirectly use Jinbei as a reference? but still lame af, they should've both had their own opponents
​

6. "Zoro couldn't even cut his Birdcage"
- oh okay, and Luffy could? other then by beating up Mingo??
- oh btw, neither could Fujitora
- oh btw, take a lighter to a piece of string, light it and tell me what happens (aka where the fuck were you Sabo LOLL)

7a. "hit by nails with ease" - what does "with ease" mean? that's subjective and greatly exaggerated imo. Not to mention, Hawkins is a Supernova, so more or less equal to Law maybe (...nahhhhhh, a lot less)

- the only weak Headliners are the non-Supernovas, right?​

- Also, Zoro took a "life" from Hawkins, which Luffy did not do (obviously they weren't going all out, but nonetheless, if faulty evidence is going to be introduced, the other party will abuse)

7b. "That's a disgrace as a Swordsman really." - no, a wound to the back is a disgrace, which we KNOW FOR SURE, but who ever said anything about getting hit by NAILS SHOT FROM CLOSE RANGE?? while they were escaping with a wounded girl (so cute) to protect
- also, there's treatment, and then there's treatment (what Nami got in Drum island is treatment; what Zoro got is.... treatment)

8. Luffy vs Zoro pre-timeskip
- I was only referring to their fight in Whiskey Peak. SO why bring up all this haki stuff? When it comes down to it, in that fight, a cut from Zoro would definitely have been more fatal than a strike from Luffy to Zoro.
- But the way I presented that piece of information, I followed it up with instances of their progression, including the CP9 fights, and that by that point, it is pretty clear that Luffy is #1, and Zoro/Sanji #2a, #2b...
- and that that dynamic got more ambiguous after the timeskip (mainly cuz Sanji looking like he fell off, because, again, would he need the raid suit otherwise?? and again, I DARE YOU to say he's not going to use it, lol)

9. Why i talk about Zoro's mindset in my original post
- I wanted to point out, but did not do a very clear job of doing, that Zoro does a lot of things because HE'S ORDERED TO DO SO BY LUFFY (the point i was trying to make in my original post is that the reason he follows Luffy is not so much due to Luffy's strength, although he must be strong as well, but more to do with Luffy's character)

- such as, saving Smoker in Alabasta
- most recently, in ch. 918, handle the food cart while Luffy takes care of Holdem​

- SO, Zoro does a lot of things he's ordered to do by Luffy...
- INCLUDING, who to fight (or more accurately, who Zoro is not allowed to fight cuz Luffy called dibs)

- if Luffy told Zoro to take care of Holdem, Zoro would just as likely be able to oneshot that pos to oblivion​

- due to this, who is to say that Zoro couldn't defeat some of the opponents that Luffy did??

- SUCH AS CROCODILE
- why am i using specifically crocodile as an example?

- haki is not introduced at that point
- as opposed to Enel, there is no natural advantage Luffy has over Crocodile
- He won because he was able to overcome Crocodile's logia advantage
- we DO NOT KNOW if Zoro could or couldn't beat Crocodile had he just covered his swords with water​

- HOWEVER, i think, despite Crocodile's advantages of being a logia, Luffy ALWAYS KNEW he could beat Crocodile

- Actually, it's more like... Luffy "sensed" that his innate strength (haki) is greater than Crocodile's, therefore he was gonna defeat him sooner or later, it was just a matter of getting around the logia part
- so, if Crocodile was a PARAMECIA with sand abilities, Luffy would've been able to beat him in their very first fight (theoretically)
- in that line of thinking, i think Zoro would've been capable of the same (as in, he was already innately stronger than Crocodile, it was just due to the fact that Crocodile was a logia and that they didn't learn haki yet that made things more complicated)
​

10. Whole Cake arc vs Wano arc
- in whole cake island, as was mentioned by the character themselves repeatedly, they were not there to fight Big Mom, and that if they were, they would've brought along Zoro and the rest of the crew
- Wano, they are most definitely gonna get down with Kaido's forces as a whole

- Due to that, i said it's ultimately more likely to be Luffy vs Kaido, but that it'd be cool af if it was Zoro instead
- i have been overlooking the Shogun for sure

- i just kinda thought of him as the first person to kiss ass, and therefore got to be Shogun and ruler, but yea, maybe not​

- it could be that Luffy fights the Shogun for his final battle, and instead Zoro fights Kaido

- i'm not saying it's more likely than Luffy vs Kaido, but then again, we're not here to talk about stats and probabilities​

- Zoro vs Jack could be very likely as well, considering at one point, Jack does unsheathe some kind of "swords"?

- but Jack doesn't appear to use them when going Zoan, so that's ambiguous​

- "Shogun is his only ideal opponent, so learn to deal with it and someone's opinion."

- whoa there, give a guy a chance to ignorantly turn down your "opinions"
- I think maybe Kinemon, Raizou, Kanjuro are the more appropriate opponents for the Shogun, considering we don't know exactly how strong he is​

- speaking of which, completely forgetting about Inu and Neko (dog and cat) ..... not to mention Marco...

​

... Objectively speaking, aside from the SH maturity levels, I don't think you make that many valid points, if at all.
- There's a lot of holes in your arguments, some of which stems from you not having clearly read the points i made previously (but if that's a clarity issue, my bad).
- But some of the more cringing points you make is from YOU not having clearly read the manga (if that's due to poor translations, it still wouldn't take away from the fact that it's your misunderstanding, not mine).

- like, it's a disgrace to get hit by nails?? that's a first. So, if you get shot by a nail gun, AT CLOSE RANGE, i'm guessing you're glad you're not living in feudal japan, otherwise you would have to commit seppuku (but then, how would they have access to a nail gun? ...)
- Fujitora slammed Zoro?? Zoro not being able to cut through the birdcage makes him look bad, but it doesn't matter that Fujitora can't cut it either??? and seriously rethink what fire is supposed to do to string

- wow at Sabo tunnel visioning... "I know Zoro is stupid at times, but he shouldn't be that stupid."
- so i guess that just means Sabo is even more stupid for not being able to think of BURNING THE STRING, and is also a pos for looking after ONLY Luffy (he can take care of himself; hello O-Kiku) and not the helpless civilians that the Revolutionary Army is primarily founded to look after. according to your logic, not mine​

- "Sanji and Jack have history a bit due to the Zou situation and he probably know Sanji through him defeating his subordinate Sheephead"

- lolllll. like Blackbeared, I doubt Jack is the kind of guy who cares about his "subordinates", especially when it's discovered how bad he got beat​

- using a quote from PH for Wano? which did not connect at all tbh

- and you're accusing me of cherry-picking
​

Idk if the reason there is so much vitriol in your post is due to my "hater" comment. I apologize. I meant to make it sarcastic, but that's not easy to pull off when communicating through a medium. As a matter of fact, all i was hoping to do was inject some humor in my posts, and NOT make any disparaging comments
Regardless, i think if you spent more time trying to gather proper evidence and valid points, and less time belittling someone, maybe there would have possibly been a proper debate (apologies if this is not the right place for a debate).
Also, why do you keep typing "Kid" with a capital 'K'?? It should be kid, no? unless "Kid" is my new name (sorry mom). Just thought it was kinda funny, not in a lol way, but in a lol? way
You should def proofread your writing beforehand. At times, I wondered if you're esl, and if not, you're a lot younger than me son teehee

Edit* so what if i am or am not fanboying Zoro? I don't believe I was being biased at all, especially considering that the point i was trying to make is that it is not impossible for Zoro to take on a Yonko (and Raid-Suit Sanji too)


TL;DR lol i have to make a prediction huh? i agree with the post saying that it's Apoo that Hawkins is communicating with. and that they'll TRADE ALLEGIANCE to the SH, and that as part of their alliance, they have to rescue Eustace Kidd as well

Well you didn't do a good job on making me see you being 'friendly' in your post as even Lexus point out your grammar, wording, and contradictions. Though if your not being hateful, then we can have friendly debate, so as long you keep it that way.

1. Now for your statements as it still doesn't justify Zoro as the most mature one as your picking him more as being right-hand man. I seen the evidence of his maturity, but it's not the top of everyone else's. Sanji is way mature than him as that his character trait gag. It doesn't affect his personality or maturity, look at Zoro still getting lost and complaining to the person who say that their 'directions were wrong'. That's not maturity, that is more childish. Also can't forget how he doesn't like sharing sake just like Luffy with food. Hell, every strawhat has trait gags, but that doesn't mean it affect how they mature. Look at Luffy, he matures, but still has parts of the personality that seem childish, but just him having fun. I know those points in time, but your also disregarding points where Nami and Sanji shown maturity during the course of the series like that Water 7 with Usopp, I agree that Nami didn't see the fault, but Sanji and Zoro were the ones who did along with Robin.

Also the Robin thin to persuade everyone was mostly gag than serious. Pretty sure they didn't 100% trust her and were just having fun while Zoro wasn't trying to laugh about it. Don't think you can fault any of them on that.

Now if I was to rank all the Strawhats in maturity, then it be this:

1. Luffy (After WCI, we saw Luffy's maturity on his actions especially Pedro's death and Jimbei staying behind for them despite wanting him to stay)
2. Sanji (After WCI, his character development goes deeper more, so you can't say 'he isn't maturing at all' and he did his actions to handle it on his own instead of forcing others to help him and get him out of it. That is mature and couldn't control the actions due to blackmail, but prove himself later after the wedding)
3. Nami (After her performance on WCI with helping out and trusting Luffy with his methods especially his fight with Katakur. She break the mirrors along with Pedro's death she was able to handle and being one of the few who didn't cry much
4. Robin
5. Brook (Despite losses, Brook's performance speak for himself in WCI, he has shown some maturity, but might take some points over him crying over Pedro's death, but then I realize his sad backstory and I can see why he is the most hurt of them all)
6. Zoro (The reason Zoro is low is while yeah, he shown development and maturity for certain actions, but haven't done things to help showcase it especially since he cause trouble in Wano without regarding the consequences and cause of his actions, Kaido probably know everyone is on the island. I can't fully praise him on that as that not maturity, that stupid especially in PH, he is the on that said "Be Serious! We are in the New World Now!"....Kinda make him hypocrite if he doesn't do what he preach and lead to others in dangerous situations)
7. Usopp
8. Franky
9. Chopper

2. Pretty sure it wasn't only for PH arc, it's for all in the New World including Wano and so forth. If he doesn't stay serious, then it makes him look bad. I don't think it was just because they were taken down only, they need to be carefully all around and not mess up crucial parts. Zoro did that in Wano, that is his fault like it or not. As for the gas thing, might cut him some slack, but still he has Haki and should have realize on attack coming nearby, wouldn't he?

Also your point on Wano, they still capture him not just cause they saw him, but saw the damn sword...Kinemon told him many times how he and the people feel about the sword. Your telling me Zoro couldn't think on disguising it like he did to his body? If they didn't stop the sword, he probably wouldn't have gotten caught on the charge. Him with a national samurai's sword that should be on his grave, but he has it make him quite suspicious out of it. It does jeopardize the mission as why you think Kinemon told them NOT (emphasizing, not yelling) to attack them. Kaido already knows they are gunning for him and I presume no one have ever defy his actions for awhile and attack his people, so the first person in a long while does this, it would led him and others believe it is the Strawhats now.

Doesn't matter what he needed to do, this could have been all avoided if he disguise the sword in the first place.

3. Hmmm....I can agree with Enel's case since Luffy did have his DF abilities to protect him and Zoro didn't, but doesn't erase the other opponents I mention. Also no on the Waipa fight as Luffy was interrupted by a snake and Zoro was interrupted by Enel who beat him down afterwards. Doesn't say anything on them on same lvl as both fights were undetermined due to interference, so you can persuade that Zoro had a chance. Also know he couldn't with Crocodile as we seen Zoro vs Mr. 1 and he almost died in the fight. Luffy needed to fight Crocodile 3 times to beat him. Zoro wouldn't last a second even to put water on his blades as even Crocodile counter that when Luffy was using it. Not including Thiller Bark fights as I understand how those fights went especially for Oars and Moira along with Kuma.

4. Yeah, but doesn't mean Zoro had a chance to fight him off and win. Doflamingo complimented Sanji's strength, but we all know Sanji isn't at his lvl yet at the time. Same with Zoro if you think he would really beat Fujitora too. Gravity is very OP thing. Fujitora wasn't even trying with that slam he gave to Zoro and we seen him try more against Luffy and Sabo. Zoro won't be able to compete against him at all.

5. Law and Zoro needed help in their fights though as they didn't do it alone and wasn't exactly one on one in the end. He is strong as remember that he just came out of body switching with Nami who use his body to tank explosions and was already damage which Sanji didn't know. Nami made comment on how Sanji went down easily from her slap, which shown he was exhausted due to his body being use poorly by her. Though despite that, Sanji still took on Vergo and made him walk away from the fight since Vergo wasn't confident on dealing with him quickly as he thought. Showing Sanji vs Vergo would be such a struggle fight between them.

Also again with your delusion of Zoro vs Kaido won't happen and he isn't ready to face a Yonko let alone Calamity after what Hawkins did to him. All that talk will probably happen in the future, when he maybe at Yonko lvl like Mihawk, but not at this point. None of that will happen even though I see Sanji and him being Yonko lvl at the end of the series. It's all about patience on how they develop down the line, but we shouldn't overhype or fast pace it to our standards. As for Sanji, Oda do things for plot, not for sake of fights. There are many Strawhats with not one on one fights, but that doesn't make them any weaker or disappointing at all. Also Zoro isn't one in anything and Sanji is still equal to him as he try facing harder opponents while Zoro has weaker opponents and when he face someone serious, it ends up back to his face badly.

6. Luffy could break the cage since he had no problem breaking a lot of Doflamingo's powerful String attacks, but he was aiming to defeat the person who controls it than break the cage. It wouldn't do anything if the controller can simply make another Birdcage if he isn't K.O.. Fujitora couldn't do anything due to not interfering by WG's laws and rules, so he let Doflamingo do what he wanted. It been mention in the arc. Why you think he put faith into Luffy soley beating him? As for Sabo....Good question, but he probably put faith into Luffy beating him just like Fujitora and they are busy taking care of the goods Doflamingo sells to organizations and kingdoms.

7. If you were trained by the World's Greatest Swordsman and have Haki at a good lvl and can't try to predict them all to block or even have mindset to harden your skin ot prevent damage, then yeah, it's pretty bad an disgraceful. What you think Mihawk would react to it? He probably mock him about not deflecting them like he could do. Don't use Tama as excuse. Luffy was by her side, she would have been fine. This is all Zoro's fault and one of the reasons I feel he isn't ready to go extreme with a Calamity like Jack, let alone Kaido himself. Orochi would be perfect opponent for him more. Yes, but still poor for his conditions to want medical treatment from nails as those are hardly that bad compare to what else has been thrown at his body. Again not convincing me he is stronger or ready for this.

8. I get that fight, but that was then, this is now and so far Zoro doesn't have anything to really compete with Luffy on especially Gear 4th. Also stop downing Sanji when he haven't fell off at all. He beat up Luffy to the point of bloody him up and harsh injuries (Though I know Sanji was still holding back here while Luffy won't fight back at him). His strength and power haven't dismissed and can still fight with and without the suit with strong opponents. They are Monster Trio for a reason and Sanji haven't drop from the group at all as like Zoro, neither have shown their full capabilities on what they can do at all.

9. Kinda doubtful as if that was the case, Zoro would never face with boss characters if Luffy is fighting them. He sometimes faces boss characters still, so not really ordered to back down from fighting them at all. Right now your using wrong facts to shape up Zoro when it's obvious he wasn't ready for Crocodile either if he struggle to almost death with Mr. 1. Enel I will let slide due to Luffy DF thing which you have a point on, but still doesn't show or justify Zoro being stronger or equal to him. Close maybe, but not that much.

10. Of course, and the same can be said with Wano arc as they need everyone to start a war with Kaido as obviously Law's and Zoro's groups are not trying to do anything as they need Luffy's and Sanji's groups to help out. Both groups need each other to topple Yonkos successfully. Also no to the Shogun for Luffy's final appoint. The Shogun works under/for Kaido, not the other way around. He is weaker than him and thus Luffy is destined to take out the final boss and plus he promised Momosuke to take him down personally. It makes zero sense on Zoro fighting him instead, that's where your fanboyism is overhyping the character for you. You putting more your personal interests than putting real logic.

Jack don't have blades anymore as pretty sure he lost or they break after Zunisha struck his ship and destroy everything except for him and maybe few of his crew. There would be no sword match and plus Jack is not a 'true' swordman. He is more fighter than swordsman kinda like Pica, but much more dangerous. He probably use his Zoan abilities than hitting him with swords. So yeah, Orochi is still his ideal opponent and it fits his theme as a swordsman and samurai to face him than Jack.

I get how you feel on the character, but so far your points have not counter mine at all as your still using more personal biased than real facts to help adores your argument which isn't working. Your even picking and choosing moments without reconsidering for others and trying to put your own facts than real ones. My arguments been fine and not really any holes, but yours is a lot. Lexus even call you out on those points, so don't think you can really debate this.

Also just explain these points to you again above and the Sanji vs Jack is more probable as while Jack doesn't care about his subordinates as shown him punishing Sheephead for losing afterwards., he still don't want to be made a fool of, so he will definitely go after Sanji and the others for this which is why he came back to Zou after hearing Sheephead's report.

So again, Kid (Call you that to mess with you and until you have respectable talk with me to call you by your actual name XD) come back when you have more evidenced on factual than making up that Zoro is ready to take down Kaido or Jack or he could beat up all three including Shogun in this arc when that is impossible and overhype definition. Not coming at you with hate, just saying that you need work on your information gathering and also grammar before you dare talk about someone's elses.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 23, 2018 ---

This is the first chapter which genuinely made me want to read more in a while.

It looks like the Oden Castle is still home to the "undead". I wonder if Oden died at all, or if he's still alive too.

Do you think he has a power like Brook to be 'undead' like him?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 23, 2018 ---

We have a new HP. I am so delighted. If only I could understand mercii's chatspeak and online abbreviations. I feel old.

Wasn't HP from Britain? changed IP and switched personas for his disguise?

Almost, but HP was more fair and diverse with his statements. Mercii is too 'fanboy' to be fair for others unlike HP who calls it like it is and don't have a biased with him.

 

[goldb]

Yep! I wonder what it's about? Any ideas?

As I've read, it's a special anime done for Tokyo One Piece Tower, about a special den den mushi. Hopefully we'll get an HD and subbed version of it.

 

[King Moe]

As I've read, it's a special anime done for Tokyo One Piece Tower, about a special den den mushi. Hopefully we'll get an HD and subbed version of it.

Hope to see it too. Even though its non-canon, its pretty cool from the spoilers I see.

 

[Kiki]

Community Awards 2018 is coming soon!​

 

[goldb]

Off topic but wondering, did we ever get the information who was Whitebeards commander of 2nd division before Ace?

It's never been stated. All we know is that it's been vacant for a long time. My guess is whoever was 2nd division commander died in battle. It'd be interesting if they were still alive and out there somewhere but had fallen out with Whitebeard and left the crew to do their own thing (it'd explain why they weren't present at the war). I doubt this though.

What do you think?

 

[nik87]

@goldb Yeah, for a long time there was no commander of 2nd division but it doesnt specify that they never had him.
Like you said, most probably he died in battle at some point. Weird thing is that no one else was appointed in long time.

If thats not the case and Oda plans to reveal him, it surely will be someone impressive and Marco may tell us more about it. For now, no information or hints are available so everything would be a wild guess and fantasy.