...with luck being the deciding factor in most match-ups. they are so drawn out and convoluted that you barely remember specifics.
they mostly play out like that episode of the simpsons where homer would tire his opponents and nudge them to fall over.
even in the worst battle shonen you have to actually be stronger than your opponent to win. luffy gets the standard mc power up and then still needs the plot to help him.
I think Oda made a mistake bringing BM into Wano. When the 5 Supernova faced off 2 Yonkos, it tarnished the Yonko reputation Oda had built throughout the New World. Shit even Bullet seems more stronger than Kaido or BM at this point. If BM loses to Law and Kid thats good for them but I think its dumb how theyre gonna get a power up out of the sudden to be in leagues with Luffy, so it'll be an asspull. If she survives to see Kaido lose to Luffy then what will she do? Luffy is the only who may be able to stop her but hes going to be out after he defeats Kaido. Nobody in Wano can stop BM or at least alone. It would have to be a group effort, Jimbei Kid Law Zolo Sanji Drake Yamato Samurai etc to stop her, but im sure they will also be done after their own fights (not Jimbei).
I was hoping to see a SH crew effort like they did to defeat Oars (someone mentioned this). That would be awesome to see again and plus give the SHs more screen time to shine and show off their powers.
Oda brought her in just to put an end to the Yonko Saga 2 birds 1 stone. He is nearing the end of OP and preparing for another huge war arc (the final one) where apparently it will be bigger than Marineford. So of course he needs to get rid of the yonko by now thats why he brought BM into Wano. Honestly, I dont think I want to see another huge war like Marineford or Wano Raid on Onigashima. While it may sound awesome, in reality both war arcs sucked in screentime. In MF we got to see so many new characters show off a glimpse of their power for a panel or two and thats it, they had so many small skirmishes but were off screened.
There literally is no reason for Luffy to go back to WCI if Big Mom either loses here or will keep going after Luffy. Luffy's reason for going back isn't because he likes WCI, but to fight Big Mom, and if either that or her loss happens, he has no reason. Like literally, no reason to keep insisting Luffy will go back to WCI, especially when there's nothing there other than Big Mom. It's a waste of time.
That's not a reason either, he goes to territories because it's on his way there or he's already there, which gives him the opportunity to save the territory IF his friend/s want it saved. I don't remember a territory that he saved that didn't have at least one friend on it, or where he didn't have to go out of his way to go to.
And if it's about saving the territory, then BIg Mom can be beaten out of WCI to save it, doesn't have to be in WCI.
That's not a reason either, he goes to territories because it's on his way there or he's already there, which gives him the opportunity to save the territory IF his friend/s want it saved. I don't remember a territory that he saved that didn't have at least one friend on it, or where he didn't have to go out of his way to go to.
And if it's about saving the territory, then BIg Mom can be beaten out of WCI to save it, doesn't have to be in WCI.
I'm not the one writing the story, fact is he said he'll return. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. If he said it, chances of it happening are likely. Again, you don't have to lit it, just facts.
Fact is he saves countries, if there's a country that's being dictated, chances are he'll end up saving it, facts. You don't have to like it. Oda's not writing the story because of your thought process or what you think makes sense or not.
He also doesn't need to have friends in a country, he saved Drum Kingdom without knowing anyone there.
And villains all get defeated in their own territory where they're at their strongest, so the idea of Big Mom being defeated outside WCI if you're trying to talk about consistency... on your part makes 0 sense as there's 0 basis.
Kaido can be beaten on Punk Hazard, but no, it's in his territory.
As for there being no reason... maybe you've forgotten the majority of monologues that explain what the Pirate King is, and does.
I'm not the one writing the story, fact is he said he'll return. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. If he said it, chances of it happening are likely. Again, you don't have to lit it, just facts.
Fact is he saves countries, if there's a country that's being dictated, chances are he'll end up saving it, facts. You don't have to like it. Oda's not writing the story because of your thought process or what you think makes sense or not.
He also doesn't need to have friends in a country, he saved Drum Kingdom without knowing anyone there.
And villains all get defeated in their own territory where they're at their strongest, so the idea of Big Mom being defeated outside WCI if you're trying to talk about consistency... on your part makes 0 sense as there's 0 basis.
Kaido can be beaten on Punk Hazard, but no, it's in his territory.
As for there being no reason... maybe you've forgotten the majority of monologues that explain what the Pirate King is, and does.
We've already done this in the past far too many times, but everything says that Luffy's reasoning for going back to WCI is to beat Big Mom, nothing else. If Big Mom loses on Wano or if she keeps coming after Luffy, Luffy has no reason to go back to WCI. It might happen, but that's dependent on Big Mom going back because without her, or without a friend on WCI that's in trouble, Luffy's not going back there, and Oda's not giving us another WCI arc.
Very hypocritical. I can say the same about you, you don't have to like Luffy not going back to WCI, but Oda's not writing the manga as per your wishes, but what he wants to do. He has no reason to give us another WCI arc.
He knew Chopper, and Wapol challenged Luffy on Drum Kingdom, where Luffy already was.
If you're trying to talk about consistency, Luffy has never gone back to a territory, so that means he's not going back to WCI. Villains have gotten defeated in their own territories because they and the Straw Hats were there, and the villains were either standing in the crew's way or making their friends unhappy. If Crocodile was on Little Garden, which isn't his territory, he and Luffy would fight there.
Because Kaidou was not on Punk Hazard, he's in Wano.
That... doesn't disprove anything I say. He can beat Big Mom in Elbaf, on Wano, or anywhere but WCI, he doesn't need to go back there. That's just what you want him to do, even though Luffy made it clear that his only reason is Big Mom. Not to free the territory, which can happen even if Big Mom loses on the other side of the world, but to beat her.
But this argument is boring now, and it's run its course. I don't care to spend any more energy on this, all we can do is just wait and see, like we did with whether or not Luffy would fight Big Mom on WCI. And speaking of consistency, that was probably the first or second arc where Luffy DIDN'T fight the boss of a crew, but the underling, as his arc opponent.
there's not as much consistency in this series as you think.
Big Mom has links to Elbaf and imo she must be defeated after she finds out what she did so it's likely that she will be an antagonist beyond this arc. Also, if someone like Shanks or BB are present or even the WG it's logical that she can be defeated in Elbaf without being the main opponent or linked to the main plot point of Luffy's journey there like that arc leading to the big war we all expect. Beating her could also actually put Luffy on the level of emperor or close to it before he meets Shanks and BB. He clearly won't be on that level in Wano if Kaido goes down after running a gauntlet and vs more than one person at the same time (Momo, Luffy and maybe Yamato and Marco).
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And why are people acting like this chapter didn't shit on the swordsman argument fans have been clinging to forever. Everyone knows that Mihawk's WSS title was used to wank him above the emperors.
I remember it automatically meaning he's beyond Shanks and even Big Mom lol and thus Kaido since Kaido is their equal though he uses a club. Why are we all acting brand new?
Yes, the Pirate King is also supposed to prove their superiority. He also said the exact thing to Katakuri. Defeating the 4 Emperors is how one becomes Pirate King.
Joker was also in Punk Hazard, and where did he get defeated? In his territory - Dressrosa.
Tell me which villain has gotten defeated outside of their territory? Searching through headcanon or invoking the mandela effect will be your best bet.
It's funny how you're arguing against the choice/intentions a character has made and saying it won't happen and trying to formulate ways it won't happen as if your formulations are being read by Oda and he's going to consider them, lol.
Did I say he will return? No, I said what Luffy himself said... and said there's the possibility he returns to WCI. Somehow, you think your desires outweigh the intentions of the main character when he's said the same thing multiple times.
Just to leave you with something that you're not aware of? Why do villains get defeated in their own territory?
The residents of that nation learn of the defeat of their dictator and are greatful to the SH crew.. this can't happen effectively outside the territory.
The enemy gets defeated at their strongest.
Lots of new characters and interactions... Wano's not just Luffy vs Kaido, it's the crew vs many others and it's an opportunity for character development as we see with Zoro, Sanji and Nami. Introduction to new characters from the enemy crew and the civilians.
It's the location for the most dramatic writing, it makes that possible and shows different perspectives.
The country gets a new leader who becomes an ally of the SHs.
Can't defeat an Emperor where no one knows what's going on. The idea Crocodile gets defeated in Little Garden is hilarious when taking certain things into consideration. It wouldn't make the news, the marines presence in the story is often to report news and that wouldn't have been possible in Little Garden. Your view is pretty myopic.
Luffy already addressed this. He said he never came to WCI to defeat Big Mom, and that is why he never came there with the entire crew. So, your argument here is redundant.
He said he just came here for Sanji, and then after Kaido, he'll return. He has said he'll return 3 times. However, you want to ignore what a character has said for no good reason or evidence.
You cannot tell me or provide evidence that Luffy has changed his mind.
It's not even a prediction, Luffy himself said it. I'm not exactly predicting anything, I'm saying what Luffy himself said. He already explained why he has to return which he's never done before.
What you're doing here is like Luffy saying he's returning to fight Kaido, I say Luffy intends to return to fight Kaido, you... "nah, he's not returning to fight Kaido because I don't like the idea".
And unless you can prove Luffy doesn't do what he says, I don't think you have any evidence other than preference.
Good predictions are based off of evidence. The above is evidence.
He didn't provide evidence, he just provided scenarios in which Luffy doesn't return to WCI, that's not evidence.
I can provide evidence for Luffy wanting to be Pirate King. If I say Luffy has no intentions to be Pirate King with "IF" scenarios, that's not evidence, that's just baseless speculation.
So, it's incorrect for you to say he's speaking from an evidential point of view when he's just making up scenarios.
With that said, it's highly unlikely Big Mom is defeated here. No reason for Oda to say the same thing 3x and not follow through.
Yes, the Pirate King is also supposed to prove their superiority. He also said the exact thing to Katakuri. Defeating the 4 Emperors is how one becomes Pirate King.
IF.
Likeliness of her losing? Low, credit always goes to Luffy, protagonist privileges.
Also, we're not the one who determine what Luffy does. He decides that.
His reason is to be Pirate King, that's really all that's needed.
Like I said, your reason is not relevant in the sense... you don't determine whether or why Luffy goes after Big Mom.
You can convince yourself he doesn't need to go back, the Manga and what you want or wish... 2 different things.
No shit he wasn't in Punk Hazard.
Joker was also in Punk Hazard, and where did he get defeated? In his territory - Dressrosa.
Tell me which villain has gotten defeated outside of their territory? Searching through headcanon or invoking the mandela effect will be your best bet.
Not your decision bud.
And Joker didn't get defeated in Punk Hazard.
It's funny how you're arguing against the choice/intentions a character has made and saying it won't happen and trying to formulate ways it won't happen as if your formulations are being read by Oda and he's going to consider them, lol.
Did I say he will return? No, I said what Luffy himself said... and said there's the possibility he returns to WCI. Somehow, you think your desires outweigh the intentions of the main character when he's said the same thing multiple times.
Just to leave you with something that you're not aware of? Why do villains get defeated in their own territory?
The residents of that nation learn of the defeat of their dictator and are greatful to the SH crew.. this can't happen effectively outside the territory.
The enemy gets defeated at their strongest.
Lots of new characters and interactions... Wano's not just Luffy vs Kaido, it's the crew vs many others and it's an opportunity for character development as we see with Zoro, Sanji and Nami. Introduction to new characters from the enemy crew and the civilians.
It's the location for the most dramatic writing, it makes that possible and shows different perspectives.
The country gets a new leader who becomes an ally of the SHs.
Can't defeat an Emperor where no one knows what's going on. The idea Crocodile gets defeated in Little Garden is hilarious when taking certain things into consideration. It wouldn't make the news, the marines presence in the story is often to report news and that wouldn't have been possible in Little Garden. Your view is pretty myopic.
I really do get your reasoning for Luffy going back to beat BM, and from an internal/narrative pov, it makes sense.
Imo, though, from an editorial perspective, it sounds like a pretty bad move. There's a limited amount of time to finish the story, and a shitload of things to show (Elbaf, BB, Shanks, Imu, the Revolutionary, the race to OP).
BM has been overwhelmingly present as an antagonist thus far. Having her take yet more screentime seems kinda crazy at this point.
If Oda really wants to bring closure to the BM/Luffy fight, though, he could either:
-Use ellipses and only show some chapters of the fight, and skip the build up to the fight.
-Have BM turn up on Luffy's journey later. Show just the fight and we done.
Both option would avoid a waste of time.
I think why most people (including myself) dislike that theory is also because it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) to involve a second full-fledged WCI arc. Personally, I'd rather see even a second Davy Back fight against the Foxy Pirates than this.
And why are people acting like this chapter didn't shit on the swordsman argument fans have been clinging to forever. Everyone knows that Mihawk's WSS title was used to wank him above the emperors.
I remember it automatically meaning he's beyond Shanks and even Big Mom lol and thus Kaido since Kaido is their equal though he uses a club. Why are we all acting brand new?
If you read the Vivre Card, Shanks is also a Swordsman.
He's looking for someone stronger than Shanks, and Zoro is that potential person.
Zoro with his strongest attack couldn't even take Kaido down; Zoro is not ready to fight against Mihawk yet, and his Swordsmanship is only good enough to take on the commander of an Emperor; all the facts imply Mihawk whom Zoro is not ready to fight is likely as strong as an Emperor. Only difference being he lacks a crew.
Okay, so this is just your opinion and the opinion of others.
I think it's a bad idea that Momonosuke is an adult, but that doesn't really determine what Oda does as we know. Oda does what he wants to do. There are so many things that you, myself and others would consider bad ideas in Wano, but he still did what he did regardless.
Okay, so this is just your opinion, not a fact. You don't like the idea, some people don't, but again... do our opinions matter to Oda? No, he just writes what he likes and we just read what he dishes out.
I'm not even arguing whether it's a good or bad idea, I'm literally regurgitating what the Manga said.
Sanji in the Manga says he wants to find all blue. If I said "I think it's too late for Sanji to find the all blue, there's not much time left to finish the series"... do you think my opinion matters? or that Oda cares? No.
If Oda said that's what the character wants to do, who am I to say it won't happen? What the character says is what directs the story, who am I to change the directive?
I've hated Sanji being a nose-bleeding idiot for the entirety of the New World. I could argue that Oda constantly using Sanji as a gag ruins the story. Does that matter? No. He'll probably do it again and do whatever he wants.
If Oda really wants to bring closure to the BM/Luffy fight, though, he could either:
-Use ellipses and only show some chapters of the fight, and skip the build up to the fight.
-Have BM turn up on Luffy's journey later. Show just the fight and we done.
Both option would avoid a waste of time.
I think why most people (including myself) dislike that theory is also because it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) to involve a second full-fledged WCI arc. Personally, I'd rather see even a second Davy Back fight against the Foxy Pirates than this.
Like I said, you're simply stating your opinion. You're all entitled to your opinion.
I'm not the one writing the story, I am simply saying if the Manga said this is the direction, it's likely we're going to head in that direction. I'm not saying it will definitely happen, not saying it can't happen, I'm simply stating what's likely going to happen based on what's been said.
There's a lot of things I'd rather see, but since when do what we want dictate what Oda decides to do? or what the Manga has said? Never.
Did you like Nami gaining her power-up from Big Mom? I hated it, he did it. Did you like the fact Judge's creation is why Sanji gets a power-up? No, but he went in that direction.
I might hate the idea of WCI, doesn't mean my hating it changes the fact Luffy has said 3x... that he will return with his entire crew and that the Pirate King is supposed to defeat the Emperors.
I think why most people (including myself) dislike that theory is also because it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) to involve a second full-fledged WCI arc.
I think most people just care about fights. Some interesting Haki displays, technique, lore... I highly doubt people care so much about location. We've also just seen Big Mom look pathetic this arc, it'd be different if we see her serious and really using her full strength especially with her new Homies.
WCI, has about 30+ Islands. WCI can still show a lot more of the country. It isn't necessarily like initial WCI arc which was a hit and run arc, not a war arc.
Lots of characters that haven't been fleshed out (e.g. Smoothie, Snack).
Hell, throw in the Straw Hat Grand Fleet into the arc, we have a lot of interesting dynamics between characters.
For all we know, Germa got captured by Big Mom and are imprisoned. Sanji would want to save them IF this were the case. We don't see Katakuri here or Cracker, for all we know, they've gone to Fishman Island to destroy it and Luffy learns about this later. A lot of interesting narratives can be made.
Going to the same place twice doesn't necessarily mean it's the same arc, it could be a completely different story. People have just assumed a return to WCI will have nothing new to show, and therefore, will be boring.
Again, not saying it will happen, Oda might change his mind. Doesn't mean I won't acknowledge what a character has said as that's the only way to predict the direction a story will head in.
Luffy already addressed this. He said he never came to WCI to defeat Big Mom, and that is why he never came there with the entire crew. So, your argument here is redundant.
All I'm saying is that your argument about how villains always are defeated in their home turf is based on a pattern that is already broken bc Luffy didn't bring his full crew and didn't defeat Big Mom at WCI the first time. Pattern broken.
He said he just came here for Sanji, and then after Kaido, he'll return. He has said he'll return 3 times. However, you want to ignore what a character has said for no good reason or evidence.
You cannot tell me or provide evidence that Luffy has changed his mind.
He didn't provide evidence, he just provided scenarios in which Luffy doesn't return to WCI, that's not evidence.
I can provide evidence for Luffy wanting to be Pirate King. If I say Luffy has no intentions to be Pirate King with "IF" scenarios, that's not evidence, that's just baseless speculation.
So, it's incorrect for you to say he's speaking from an evidential point of view when he's just making up scenarios.
With that said, it's highly unlikely Big Mom is defeated here. No reason for Oda to say the same thing 3x and not follow through.
Yes he will be Pirate King. We all know he said he wanted to defeat all 4 yonkou. It is very likely that he will. But the argument for him to go back to WCI is based on ancient statements bc Big Mom is not in WCI anymore. That's it. You believe it is still valid and I do not. We do not have any evidence that Luffys statement it still valid or not. IF it is valid, then evidence points towards Luffy going back to WCI and if isn't there is no evidence towards either outcome.
All I'm saying is that your argument about how villains always are defeated in their home turf is based on a pattern that is already broken bc Luffy didn't bring his full crew and didn't defeat Big Mom at WCI the first time. Pattern broken.
Their is literally no point to go to WCI unless she steals the poneglyph or threatens luffy in some way where he can't turn a blind eye. I'm sorry but he is not going there just to fight Big mom that's boring and bad writing. If anything it will be a 2 page Fight like how they included the broly fight in super manga. Or maybe if they kidnap robin once again but to fight ?? nah
She's not defeated, therefore, his promise is still openly possible and still likely.
Again, assuming you can understand this, if he defeats her here, then his promise to return to WCI completely becomes redundant. Again, if you understand this, she's undefeated and more so, undefeated by him (Luffy).
Luffy already told us his reason and you've chosen to be ignorant of it because you dislike the reason. Luffy said the Pirate King must defeat the Emperors, that's his reason and his belief. You may not like it, but Oda couldn't give a shit what me or I think, he writes the story.
And the one thing you don't seem to understand is the story is still in progress.
All Oda does to solidify a need to return to WCI besides the promise he made is Fishman island is attacked... for all we know, Katakuri and Cracker have destroyed the Island or defeated the Sun Pirates in the absence of Jimbei and Big Mom. Germa may have been imprisoned, Sanji would want to return. I have no idea how things will develop, I can only tell you Luffy's intention and the fact is what he aims to do/say is what directs the story.
As if what you consider bad writing and boring is what dictates the story. Wano has had some of the worst writing I've seen in the series, you think what I think or what you think stops Oda from writing shit? Let's not act like the world or story revolves around us. Oda does what he wants.
I don't see it on this site as much as others. Unlike Naruto or other series, in OP titles are believed to the point that it overshadows feats and even other forms of hype and symbolism.
Worstgen and Reddit forums are likely to have the fanboy beliefs that make ridiculous inferences
I think the titles are valid. Issue here is people are distorting the meaning of WSS and giving it additional meanings that it has no relations to. He is indeed the best Swordsman, the strongest, but he's certainly not the strongest pirate as the Swordsmans title has nothing to do with being a pirate or not.
She's not defeated, therefore, his promise is still openly possible and still likely.
Again, assuming you can understand this, if he defeats her here, then his promise to return to WCI completely becomes redundant. Again, if you understand this, she's undefeated and more so, undefeated by him (Luffy).
That's a pretty poor statement and poor reasoning.
It's like saying since Luffy is in Wano, he can't go to Raftel anymore.
Your logic here is atrocious because it implies the entire series ends in Wano.
It is still relevant because... assuming you're not aware, the story is still in progress.
Big Mom is not yet defeated and she can still return home. It's not like she's dead, again, easily understandable.
So what if she's in Wano now? Doesn't mean she's never going to be in WCI again, Your reasoning is lacking sense or logic.
Unless she's defeated and dead in which case, it'll be impossible for her to return to WCI, your reasoning is non-existent on a logical level.
I haven't seen a main villain follow Luffy from one arc to the next like this before and thus I believe Oda is breaking his pattern.
I therefore find it more likely that Big Mom will be defeated in Elbaf than in Wano or returning to WCI, though ofc all is possible events that could happen giving the evidence/signals/data/whatever.
You are being rude as always stating it is like I don't understand simple concepts. So let's just end it here with us agreeing to dissagree and this matter will solve it self in time
Best chance I'd give is Kid getting access to the military weapons that Wano was supposed to sell to the WG. He'll get access to quality metal weapons which should make his robotic form/armour stronger and bigger. However, how much effect that will have against Big Mom? Hard to say.
Seems the only thing that can really hurt the Emperors is Advanced Haki at this point.
The pattern was a villain defeated in their own territory.
It's like someone saying they want spicy food, and then you offer them something sweet. There's no comparison, and that's literally how disjoint your comparisons are. There's literally no relation.
Leaving another country doesn't break the pattern of a main villain being defeated in their territory because the enemy is not defeated and can still return home.
What you don't seem to understand is a pattern is broken when the said pattern doesn't happen.
Is Big Mom defeated? No, so your entire argument is redundant and invalid. That's literally all you have to understand which you don't seem to understand.
I just said the pattern: Villain defeated in their own territory.
You said: Big Mom is not in WCI.
And? There's no relation, so it's not rude, I'm literally pointing out a fact, you don't seem to grasp it.
It's like someone speaking about mathematics, and then you bring up biology. Doesn't tesselate, and what you're saying makes 0 sense. Someone talking about maths and then you try to contribute on a mathematical subject with biology is proof you're not comprehending the conversation. It's not rude to point out a fact. Issue here is you just make illogical or unrelated points unfortunately.
The pattern was a villain defeated in their own territory.
...
Leaving another country doesn't break the pattern of a main villain being defeated in their territory because the enemy is not defeated and can still return home.
What you don't seem to understand is a pattern is broken when the said pattern doesn't happen.
Is Big Mom defeated? No, so your entire argument is redundant and invalid. That's literally all you have to understand which you don't seem to understand.
Yes the sentence "villain defeated in their own territory" has not happened yet for Big Mom and therefore it can still happen. Ofc this is true. Everyone know this is true. Even a 4 year old knows this is true. Is this you argument?
What about all the other new stuff that happened since WCI? Is all this new "data" from Oda not effecting the likelyhood of Big Mom returning to WCI at all in your opinion? The likelyhood is just flat all along? In the world of science ignoring new data like this is not a good idea.
Im using all the signals Oda has send us and arrive at the event of Big Mom not returning to WCI to be defeated by Luffy in her hometurf to be the most likely future in One Piece.
Why are we all acting brand new?
