One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[Lord Traffy Law]

No, the thing is you're delusional and ignorant.

Why wouldn't you have some level of trust for someone who maintained their part of a deal for 5 years?

He didn't even trust Orochi blindly. He made sure Orochi was doing his part, it wasn't like he wasn't getting anything in return. Again, you're clueless. Try reading, your understanding is comical at best.

How do you build trust? By making a promise and fulfilling it.

Why do you trust anyone? Naive is believing someone without evidence. Yet, there's this nonsensical idea that Oden just blindly trusted Orochi as if Orochi wasn't doing what he promised Oden for 5 years.



Do you know how stupid this is? Lol.

What contingency plan?

Who could he call for help?

Wano is a closed country to the world.

What is this plan? Sorry, but that's absolutely stupid.

There's literally no plan that could be made in this situation other than risk it all and be willing to risk the lives of others.

On top of that, there's a spy in his place... what plan was he meant to make? lol?

You're not using any intelligence at all considering the situation.

Like I said, unless you're some psychopath who didn't care about the lives of others, there's literally nothing any moral human being can do. Clearly, you're not quite wired that way since you can't grasp that lives are at stake.

He couldn't even speak to his most trusted confidants, why? Because if they saw Oden was ready to humiliate himself, they might otherwise take premature action which will lead to....

More kidnapping meaning more tortures and death.

Not sure what this genius plan you have in mind is, but it's easy to criticise, call out a problem, and then not even give an intelligible plan. What exactly is your intelligent resolution to this issue?

Every problem is always easy to resolve after the fact.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2021 ---

What is also consistently stupid is this.

Maybe you have a job, or just assume you do. Maybe you've been there working for 10 years. They pay you exactly as promised monthly for 10 years.

When exactly do you stop trusting that your employer will stop paying you after 10 years worth of building the trust that they will pay you next month?

How do you know Orochi and Kaido had no intention to ever leave? What evidence do you have?

When exactly do you know someone who has shown they can be trusted, can't be trusted?

Imagine all those people who found out their spouses were cheating on them. They had kids, they paid the bills, they took their spouse out to dinner, they had yearly holidays. At what point do you think they find out not to trust their partner? Most likely when they find them cheating or evidence of it.

Similarly, where's this evidence that Orochi and Kaido never had intentions to leave Wano at all?

he knew orochi was a creep and never trusted him, AND AGAIN ODEN DIDN'T EVEN TRUST OROCHI'S character as u said before
I am saying that trusting someone so underhanded and not even considering them not going is naive and it was
the country of wano offered kaido and orochi power and resources , at least consider them not giving it up
I dunno not considering the alternative for 5 years is alot

again it's explicitly stated he trusted their promise, when they were obvious clear reasons not to
and incentives for them to leave is all
it's noble but there's obvious reasons and flags that oden didn't account for ,a pirate and a man who wants revenge against the country , trusting them is naive
again I am not knocking oden for taking the deal, I said it's naivee that he dudn't account for them reneging on the deal at all, no contigencies
a man willing to use the tactics to use in the first place isn't to be trusted by default

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I am saying that trusting someone so underhanded and not even considering them not going is naive and it was

Again, you're full of nonsense.

Where is the evidence that:

• Orochi never had ambitions to leave Wano.

How do you know he also didn't aspire to be a Pirate?

again it's explicitly stated he trusted their promise, when they were obvious clear reasons not to

Daft statement.

240 times, he fulfilled his promise, yet you say there was no reason to believe him, that's stupid.

If someone proves themselves to most people just once, that's all it takes to build trust.

Orochi proved himself trustworthy 240 times for 240 weeks consistently. 5 years of proving and doing what he promised.

It's just dumb to say that someone that has done what it takes to be trusted has done nothing to be remotely trusted.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2021 ---

no contigencies
a man willing to use the tactics to use in the first place isn't to be trusted by default

Another daft statement.

What contingency plan do you have:

1. When you're isolated from the world.
2. And don't know the intentions of your enemy whether or not you trust them?

You're just making dumb statements. You say there's no contingency plan when you have no solution as to what the plan should be.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2021 ---

I said it's naivee that he dudn't account for them reneging on the deal at all

Clearly, you don't read nor do you seem to think things through.

The only contingency plan was waiting 5 years, seeing if Orochi left, and if he didn't fight Kaido which is exactly what he did.

What other contingency plan? You're making some laughable claims that lack any sense.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Again, you're full of nonsense.

Where is the evidence that:

• Orochi never had ambitions to leave Wano.

How do you know he also didn't aspire to be a Pirate?



Daft statement.

240 times, he fulfilled his promise, yet you say there was no reason to believe him, that's stupid.

If someone proves themselves to most people just once, that's all it takes to build trust.

Orochi proved himself trustworthy 240 times for 240 weeks consistently. 5 years of proving and doing what he promised.

It's just dumb to say that someone that has done what it takes to be trusted has done nothing to be remotely trusted.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2021 ---

Another daft statement.

What contingency plan do you have:

1. When you're isolated from the world.
2. And don't know the intentions of your enemy whether or not you trust them?

You're just making dumb statements. You say there's no contingency plan when you have no solution as to what the plan should be.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2021 ---

Clearly, you don't read nor do you seem to think things through.

The only contingency plan was waiting 5 years, seeing if Orochi left, and if he didn't fight Kaido which is exactly what he did.

What other contingency plan? You're making some laughable claims that lack any sense.

Again I’m saying there’s more than enough reasons not to take them serious fully
A contingency for someone you don’t trust
A pirate and a man who hates the country
I’m saying hey oden fully trusting the promise for them to leave in 5 years
It’s an agree to disagree

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Again I’m saying there’s more than enough reasons not to take them serious fully

You can't prove it.

Orochi said:
He'd leave Wano.
And return 24,000 people over 5 years.
He returned 24,000 on 240 different occasions as promised.
How do you know not to trust?

A contingency for someone you don’t trust

So.. what is this contingency plan, you have one right?

A pirate and a man who hates the country

Doesn't mean they never intended to leave the country after 5 years. How do you know he and Kaido never intended to leave?

I’m saying hey oden fully trusting the promise for them to leave in 5 years

He might have had some trust, doesn't mean he fully trusted them.

Point is whether or not you trusted them, the result is still the same.

• He'd still have to dance.
• He'd still have to keep quiet about what Orochi told him.
• He'd still have to take action only when there was proof he wasn't leave.

Again, I want to know what is this contingency plan you keep bringing up.

 

[catagon87]

Fact is end of the day, you're wrong because a Magazine and Vivre Card proved exactly what I said in 2017 as:

• His title is related to his species and dragon DF.

Not that he's the strongest Pirate.

Like you said, it's in your mind - even the narration, you misquoted and ignored the word "bet" as if that doesn't have meaning, lol.

I own the volume which contains ch.795 in Japanese. It doesn't say "bet". That's a mistranslation, and likely due to the fact that that whole spiel is not easy to directly translate to English.

「百獣のカイドウ」「一対ーでやるならカイドウだろう」口々に人は言う
陸海空。。。生きとし生ける全てのもの達の中で

Literally translates to garbage in English. Something like, "If you want a duel, it'll be Kaido! Land, sea, air - all living things." There's a lot of contextual fill-in-the-blanks here (which the translator clearly did). You seem to ignore the next sentence on your own translation "Land, sea, air - out of every living thing in the world. This pirate is said to be the strongest creature alive!" (are humans not living things? If someone said "I'm gonna destroy all living things!" do you feel excluded from that as a human?)
Does not mention betting, at all. Period. It's objectively stated, and not up for debate. This is something you would need to study Japanese for about 10-15 years to really fully understand. You want to make your point on this panel? Go get a Japanese linguist, because you do not have the expertise nor language skills to objectively debate the subject.

If you want to go with the convenient sentence in the poorly translated page then you do you, but just know you're reading a garbage translation of a not-translatable sentence and relying on verbiage that isn't in the original Japanese volume (which you often do, FYI - OP is not a very well translated manga, and I often get the vibe it's translated by a circle-jerk of weebs based on the random bullshit I read such as Nakama being a "special word")

You're even discarding common sense when Oden was weaker than Roger and Whitebeard, yet... he almost defeated Kaido, and somehow you lie to yourself that he's the strongest?

22 years ago. Time is important. It's not common sense to say that Kaido isn't the strongest now because he was nearly defeated 22 years ago. Luffy is going to be Pirate King who's had his ass kicked all up and down the ocean. When he achieves it they aren't going to say "Well, he isn't that strong. Kizaru almost killed him on Sabaody 2 year ago!"

Time is very relevant and "strongest" ALWAYS changes both IRL and in manga. Look at Ronda Rousey. Undefeated to unable to defeat.

In summary, events from 22 years prior to the story have no bearing on the current narration. That's like if my company decided to give me a performance review, but brought up the fact that I didn't know how to code in C++ when I was 12 (22 years ago). It makes no sense and people change. Coby went from a slave-deckhand on Alvida's ship to a Navy Officer with haki and rokushiki. Luffy went from whole SHP almost losing to a single pacifista to one-shotting them in 1/11th the time.

Same Kaido struggled against Moriah.

Plus, Oden's last words directly to Kaido were: "Get stronger"

Not everyone is able to believe facts and evidence when they're emotionally driven, unfortunate, but it is what it is.

The irony here is likely not going to be missed by most members. I like you, HP, and have no problem with you and often like your posts, but you're the epitome of emotional arguments and posting. Telling yourself it's pragmatic and factual is just a form of projection. Sometimes opening your mind a bit to the things others have to say is a healthy way to grow as a human.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Human is just 1 of 8.7 million creatures on the planet.

If you can tell, there's a difference between Creatures and Humans.

Contradiction btw

You are 100% wrong here. This I can say for certain

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

My point is proven here, strongest creature cannot be a Human because creature is referring to species.

Humans are species too. Homo (Genus) Sapiens (Species)

 

[I Am Atomic]

Buddy, where did I say Humans are not Species?

I literally said Humans are 1 of 8.7 million creatures (species).

Here

Do you know how many Creatures exist? 8.7 million Creatures.

How many humans? About 8 billion?

Do the maths, 8.7 million creatures and 8 billion humans.

Not 8 billion creatures.

If you can tell, there's a difference between Creatures and Humans.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Contradiction btw

You are 100% wrong here. This I can say for certain

This is how erroneous you are, lol.

Creature and Humans are not the same thing.

It's as laughable as saying Vehicle and Car are the same thing. A Car is a sub-category of Vehicle.

A Human is a Sub-Category of Creature.

The term Human doesn't refer to any single Human being, it simply describes the qualities of what a Human is (Bipedal, Mouth, Eyes, Nose, Intelligence, etc)... not any particular Human.

Whenever you say Creature, you have to ask, what type of Creature? It's a very broad term my friend.

You hear a creature making noises in your garden, you have to ask.. what creature is making that noise? You hear a meow, you immediately know the Creature is a cat.

Why is it a cat? It meows, it has fur, it's nimble in movement, it has paws and claws, it's around this height.

Creature is simply a term that describes anatomy, it's not a term that refers to individual.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

Here

You're not reading right bud, didn't say Humans are not Creatures, lol.

Human is just 1 of 8.7 million creatures on the planet.

You do know... Creatures/Species do mean the same thing?

Human Species are just 1 of 8.7 million creatures.

There are 8 billion humans.

You really can't see the difference?

 

[catagon87]

Funny.

Yet, something I wrote back in 2016/2017 has been proven by the One Piece Magazine which states Kaido's title is based on his race, not that he's the strongest.

From a Magazine released in 2019: https://onepiecethenewworld.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/beasts-pirates-information.png

It's stating his race is why he's so durable, that's what the creature alludes to, his race/species.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

Buddy, where did I say Humans are not Species?

I literally said Humans are 1 of 8.7 million creatures (species).

I don't really get it. The image doesn't state anything objectively. If anything it adds another layer of mystery. How you manage to get some objective information regarding "strongest creature != strongest pirate" out of that is a mystery to me. Maybe some other posters can chime in or something, because I really don't get it. You also circled the wrong part and somehow missed the part that says "It's said that no one can defeat him one on one.. As a single human his abilities are on a whole different level..!!!"

Are you putting forth that your own source is wrong? Or that "no one" means only non-humans? Non-pirates? That they are no part of "everybody"? The only objective information in that garbage magazine is that they pretended some journalist saw Kaido, and then regurgitated a bunch of info about him prefaced with his own lack of knowledge and how conjectural it is.

Sometimes "arguing" with you reminds me of this scene from Inside Out. You seem to commonly convince yourself you have it "figured out" when your information you claim to be objective just adds more layers of ambiguity and doubt over your own arguments.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

22 years ago. Time is important. It's not common sense to say that Kaido isn't the strongest now because he was nearly defeated 22 years ago. Luffy is going to be Pirate King who's had his ass kicked all up and down the ocean. When he achieves it they aren't going to say "Well, he isn't that strong. Kizaru almost killed him on Sabaody 2 year ago!"

Your logic really is awful here. Of course no one in their right mind would say Luffy's not the strongest, we're basing it off the strength we see here and now, not his past strength, lol.

Kaido hasn't gotten any stronger, he's probably been in his prime since the Oden fight.

Time is very relevant and "strongest" ALWAYS changes both IRL and in manga. Look at Ronda Rousey. Undefeated to unable to defeat.

Lol, how convenient, you can't prove your argument with evidence, so you make up some nonsense about time.

Time isn't relevant.

How it affects IRL doesn't necessarily have the same impact. Know why? because of this thing called fiction and narrative. Oda chooses and decides how things play out. Whitebeard was literally 70, and for pretty much 3 decades, he and Roger were the strongest. If time were as effective as it was IRL, being the strongest would be a decade long thing, and some young gun would have exceeded them and that never happened.

You're making up rules to fit your argument, not even rules that apply in the manga, but rules you've just conjured out of no where.

Regardless, fact is there's no consistent claim that Kaido is the strongest man or pirate alive, or ruler of the sea or closest to the One Piece. All of those have been awarded to Whitebeard and Roger consistently.

Plus, Oden's last words directly to Kaido were: "Get stronger"

Oh yes, that could definitely not mean... increase the strength of your army.

Telling yourself it's pragmatic and factual is just a form of projection

The problem is you don't understand the context.

If Oda really wanted to say Kaido was the strongest, know what he'd have said? He'd use a term that describes an individual or a person, and that's Man/Pirate.

When you're comparing creatures/species, then you're talking based on group generalisation.

When you compare man/person, you're talking about the individual compared to other individuals. You don't need to distinguish between dog and cat, they're irrelevant, all one has to say you're the best strongest fastest man/person in the world, and there's really no other way to interpret is as nothing more than that.

We don't have Mihawk's title saying World's Strongest Sword Creature. It just says World's strongest Swordsman, so whether his enemy is a fishman or Ogre, we know if they wield a Sword regardless of race or tribe, they're the strongest Swordsman.

How do you say someone is the strongest man or Pirate? Call them the strongest man or Pirate, so whether or not they're from the Human race, or Fishman race, or Ogre... it's unimportant.

Creature simply refers to their anatomical qualities and Kaido's race is immense durability, thus... strongest creature.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

I don't really get it. The image doesn't state anything objectively. If anything it adds another layer of mystery. How you manage to get some objective information regarding "strongest creature != strongest pirate" out of that is a mystery to me. Maybe some other posters can chime in or something, because I really don't get it. You also circled the wrong part and somehow missed the part that says "It's said that no one can defeat him one on one.. As a single human his abilities are on a whole different level..!!!"

Are you putting forth that your own source is wrong? Or that "no one" means only non-humans? Non-pirates? That they are no part of "everybody"? The only objective information in that garbage magazine is that they pretended some journalist saw Kaido, and then regurgitated a bunch of info about him prefaced with his own lack of knowledge and how conjectural it is.

Sometimes "arguing" with you reminds me of this scene from Inside Out. You seem to commonly convince yourself you have it "figured out" when your information you claim to be objective just adds more layers of ambiguity and doubt over your own arguments.

Lol... you simply didn't read in context. You skipped everything mentioned above... and just zoned in on what you could take out of context.

Did you read what was said earlier? Lol... It said his Race is unknown, so their reference to him as a Human is simply just an easy way to refer to him as a person whose abilities exceed what one can imagine.

More so, if you actually read with context (i.e. reading text that precedes text you want to take out of context), it points out:

1. The aforementioned information is what the public country of Wank knows of Kaido.
2. The statements are based on witness.
3. Says he's on a whole different level than a normal human (if you read text prior to this, it mentions his race is unknown aka context).
4. One could say he's a monster.
5. A number of people confident in their strength challenged him, and after a swing of his Kanabo end up laying on the ground.

If I take point 5 and the 1 on 1, Kaido defeats everyone with 1 swing of his club right?

All you've done is take things out of context and twisted things to mean what you want it to mean.

Read the whole text bud.

That's what objective people do when reading information and then they can understand what is said. You just ignored anything that doesn't add to your argument/bias.

You do realise a lot of Kaido's subordinates were people who challenged for Pirate King? They took on Kaido, and they lost. 99.9% of Kaido's crew if they ever challenge him get defeated 1 in swing of the club.

You think Shanks, Whitebeard and Big Mom all challenged Kaido, and got taken down in hit?

Fought Big Mom for an entire night at least, and how many swings can Kaido throw in a single night? 1, 2 maybe 10? Big Mom wasn't defeated, well go figure.. maybe just like the Magazine said, it's based on happenings inside of Wano.

Like I said, you didn't understand context, and you ran with little information to form a bad conclusion that when read in light of all the information makes no sense.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Humans are animals, in this context "creatures." How the fuck is this even a debate? Smh.

Then why change the WSM to the WSC? Clearly Oda sees a difference.

We gotta at least agree to that much

 

[catagon87]

Google Creature.

Do you know how many Creatures exist? 8.7 million Creatures.

How many humans? About 8 billion?

Do the maths, 8.7 million creatures and 8 billion humans.

Not 8 billion creatures.

If you can tell, there's a difference between Creatures and Humans.

Creature is a term that identifies a sub-group based on their anatomy.

Human is just 1 of 8.7 million creatures on the planet.

Creature also doesn't refer to individuals, person refers to individual.

Kaido is simply regarded as the strongest based on his race, lol.

My point is proven here, strongest creature cannot be a Human because creature is referring to species.

Fastest creature on Land? Cheetah. Not any specific Cheetah, they're just generally the fastest. Not some Cheetah called Oscar.

Kaido's race is just regarded as the strongest, not Kaido himself.

Ironically, the superiority Kaido has is no different to Fishmen and Humans. Fishmen as a race as superior to Humans, can breathe underwater and on land, are generally 10x stronger than humans - doesn't mean just because an outlier like Shanks exist, the entire Human race is species-wise superior to Fishman race.

You're missing nuance, lol.

Uh, creature is not synonymous with race or species. Why don't you go pop the word "creature" into a thesaurus.

Or go check out the actual dictionary definition of it, which clearly outlines that a creature is not a species.
Or the Webster definition.
Maybe even check out some anecdotal evidence on the meanings.
Even a diff of them.

Beyond this we can even go to your hang up on the term creature, and use the actual Japanese term the manga used:
生きとしいける全てのもの達の中で
iki to shi ikeru subete no mono-tachi.

Ikeru = to live
Subete no mono-tachi = all things
ikeru subete no mono-tachi = living all things = all living things
iki toshi = alive
Complete translation means more as "A living thing among all other living things". Strong emphasis on the individual aspect of this.
A bird is a living thing, but a living thing is not necessarily a bird.
A human is a living thing but a living thing is not necessarily a human.

The closest word to what you're looking for would be: 生き物 which means "living thing" which could be translated a layer deeper to "creature", but only in that context. There is a strong emphasis on the words "all" and verb "to live". It is not specific. It doesn't say "Among all animals" or "among all humans" or "among all pirates" or "among all people whose favorite color is blue". It says "alive amongst all living things".

Programmers will understand this type of construction in object oriented programming. A circle is a shape but a shape is not a circle. It's the same thing when you deconstruct the actual Japanese. You failing here is assuming the translation you read is accurate. The word 'creature' is fine, but only in the context of it meaning a living thing; not a race or species. More importantly the jump you're making is not one I can't empathize with. A lot of words carry multiple meanings, and when we translate a word from one language to another we can jump onto the wrong translation for it. An example is "cape" - 崎. In Japanese this is very clearly meaning it in the context of a piece of land jutting out of water. We also know it as a garment in English. To say "he landed at the cape!" would sound silly if we assumed it held the garment meaning, and not the land-type meaning.

If you want to argue against a thesaurus, several dictionaries, anecdotal (yet unanimous) agreement in direct conflict with your understanding, and a native speaker of the language, then I'm not sure there's any point in arguing the topic further. The burden of reasonable proof has been met, and it's on you to understand when you're wrong and learn from it.

 

[catagon87]

Your logic really is awful here. Of course no one in their right mind would say Luffy's not the strongest, we're basing it off the strength we see here and now, not his past strength, lol.

Kaido hasn't gotten any stronger, he's probably been in his prime since the Oden fight.

You can't use an objective statement followed by the word probably.

Oden told Kaido to get stronger. The fact that you're saying 22 years would show zero growth in Kaido is kinda ridiculous. The fact that you disregard Oden's final advice to his opponent (who you agree respected him). You want to be right so badly that you're ignoring very real logic. If someone on here tried to make a counter claim to you and excluded time from the equation you'd find 18000 panels to try and rip them apart over it. So I don't really know what to say here other than, "cool."

How it affects IRL doesn't necessarily have the same impact. Know why? because of this thing called fiction and narrative. Oda chooses and decides how things play out. Whitebeard was literally 70, and for pretty much 3 decades, he and Roger were the strongest. If time were as effective as it was IRL, being the strongest would be a decade long thing, and some young gun would have exceeded them and that never happened.

Kinda like how you pick and choose when real life is relevant when it suits your argument.
Stating that time is relevant in a story where it exists doesn't require me to go show you panels proving that. Time flows, things change, and that's how plot moves forward. Without time nothing changes. Saying the very invocation of change is irrelevant in a plot that moves is like saying oxygen is irrelevant to human life. We don't talk about it all the time, but it'd certainly be an easy to predict outcome if it suddenly vanished.

You think Shanks, Whitebeard and Big Mom all challenged Kaido, and got taken down in hit?

I never said anything of the sort.

Like I said, you didn't understand context, and you ran with little information to form a bad conclusion that when read in light of all the information makes no sense.

Is this your go-to in real life too? You get hit with something you can't really objectively defend against so you resort to claiming the other person lacks understanding, context, and clairvoyance? People here are reading the same manga you are. You choose to fill in the blanks that are omitted by the writer, often, and convince yourself that your interpretation is the "real interpretation". It's kinda bizarre sometimes, because it definitely takes a few logical leaps and suspense of disbelief to get to where you are often-times.

More so, if you actually read with context (i.e. reading text that precedes text you want to take out of context), it points out:

1. The aforementioned information is what the public country of Wank knows of Kaido.
2. The statements are based on witness.
3. Says he's on a whole different level than a normal human (if you read text prior to this, it mentions his race is unknown aka context).
4. One could say he's a monster.
5. A number of people confident in their strength challenged him, and after a swing of his Kanabo end up laying on the ground.

If I take point 5 and the 1 on 1, Kaido defeats everyone with 1 swing of his club right?

All you've done is take things out of context and twisted things to mean what you want it to mean.

God, I'm drowning in irony here. It's amazing to me that you try to bend logic so. Nobody claimed Kaido one-shots everyone. This isn't One Punch Man: Kaido Version.
"A number of people" is objectively different than "all people".
"Luffy defeated a number of people in Wano" does not mean he went person to person challenging and defeating every single citizen of Wano.

You have many problems and I'll just close with a few:

• Your source is conjecture based outside of the cannon universe told from the same perspective us readers have: someone saw Kaido in Dragon form and drew some conclusions about him using vague language
• You always leap to extremes. Saying Kaido is the strongest (which I did say) is not me saying he can one-shot everyone. I never claimed such, and your constant diving down that rabbit hole is a little weird considering I. Did. Not. Claim. He. One. Shots. People. Always.
• Your inability to discern your own opinions from actual facts is scary sometimes. Your resorting to borderline to straight up patronizing people you disagree with by claiming you have a heightened understanding or interpretation of what's going on is even scarier. I'm a native English and Japanese speaker. You often try to use language incorrectly to prove points. I make a point not to patronize anyone's language abilities on these forums, because we're all from different parts of the world; That said, I'm not exactly fond of someone constantly claiming I'm not getting the context, or my reading comprehension is off when I literally speak the base language, and translated language, write short stories in my free time, debate Tolkien's work for fun, run DND groups for fun, and publish academic papers that require very high level understanding of the English language (which is the language of this forum). My interpretation is my interpretation, and I'm free to have it. You've been wrong plenty of times and the one constant in all of it is you never seem to realize when you're wrong, and you don't know what you don't know.

 

[catagon87]

Like I said, you don't read with context, lol.

It is synonymous with Race or Species, lol.

There's a reason google says 8.7 million for all of them.

By your laughable logic here, Creature also means Party because you typed it up in a thesaurus .

Got to use some common sense, it's context, lol.

You do know something being synonymous doesn't mean they exactly mean the same thing right? Lol? Doesn't mean you can swap them out interchangeably in a sentence right?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2021 ---

I have had this conversation with a Japanese speaking person who more or less confirmed it's relating to Species/Creatures.

And you're still proven wrong because:

• Law said Strongest Creature.

There's no reason for Nami to then ask if he's not Human if the Term Strongest Creature doesn't imply a different race/species.

If Nami was using your logic or rationale... she should be saying "wow, so he's stronger than Whitebeard? and everyone else", instead, she immediately jumps to race.

Law literally said Strongest Creature and Nami's immediate response is he most belong to a different species. She didn't even say oh, that means he's the most powerful Emperor, she just jumped straight to his race/species.

So, either Nami somehow forgot how to speak Japanese or this translation saying Human is wrong and the raw says something completely different.

Ah, the convenient "I have a Japanese friend to validate me" argument. Sorry to say, but the person you asked is wrong. Or more likely given your inability to acknowledge when you're wrong combined with Japan having a very conflict-averse culture, I wouldn't be surprised if you bullied the person into telling you you're right.

 

[Chingaruna517]

Can't people stop arguing is human is a creature or not already?! Its like arguing about dolphin or whales are fish or not because we all know that both of them are sea mammals because they don't have gills! Please, folks! The "debates" here in the forum only making people like zoo animals who are trying to compete who has the biggest ego here!

 

[Windfall Island]

I will side with a japanese speaker than someone who is friends with a japanese speaker. Lol.

Here is what i learnt .
Kaido > world's strongest one armed person > oldbread > meme XD


Waiting for new spoilers. Despite being a zoro fan...not much to say between zoro vs king


Srsly though, amongst the yonkos , oda didnt give any kind of world's strongest title to BM, BB or shanks.

Only WB & Kaido got those titles . Very coincidentally Kaido got that title after WB's death ( from pov of us readers).

Implying that WB was strongest in the verse earlier & now after his death kaido is.

shanks bm bb dont even have any kind of worlds strongest titles amongst the yonkos so there is 0% chance they are strongest in the verse right now.

 

[catagon87]

It's so funny seeing these "debates" sometimes but man this went off the rails. Going back to the spoilers, can Zoro technically fly using propulsion of his air slashes now? This is going to be a funny fight to watch if we see him do that multiple times

I think it'd be cool if he picked up those techniques. He's against a flying opponent after all and based on the spoilers it seems like he's disadvantaged now.

Arguing with him is so pointless/fruitless. He has two core problems that make most discussions with him a nightmare:

1. He rarely (if ever) actually debates you or your points, just the strawmans he formulates. So if you say X, he will say you said Y and then attack Y, without ever actually talking about X. Point in case with the whole Kaido one shotting everyone.
2. All his arguments are syllogistic in nature, and he assumes his given propositions are the truth (remember he knows all and is the source of objective truth ). If you don't agree with his propositions it's because "you don't understand" or because "you can't read" or because "you don't read with context".

But hey I get it, sometimes its fun to him.

I usually don't engage in fruitless endeavors (rarely directly respond to anything brought up by member in question as I know the result, time investment required, etc) but sometimes I think it's worthwhile to not let the loudest voice always win. Arguments are rarely, if ever, won by insulting the person's intelligence, comprehension, interpretation of reality, etc.. I see arguing as a way to constructively get my point across, and I think when it resorts to outright baseless claims against someone's character or cognitive ability then it's not really about the person you're arguing with, the points being made, or anything of the sort; it's become about your own insecurities. In the world of OP there are simply things that can't be proven with links to panels, quotes, etc because the information required to objectively prove something one way or another doesn't exist in cannon, material form yet, and it may never and always be subject to debate. It's like trying to disprove Einstein's Theory of Relativity by using Newtonian Physics - getting in your car, driving, and observing time was not dilated. Without a very high-velocity ship you aren't going to get anywhere in your argument.

A lot of what I see put out here as fact reminds me of how QAnon is communicated. If you don't think the Earth is flat, the flat-Earther will tell you that you are wrong because you haven't sailed down to Antarctica; they'll send you a picture of a vague ice wall and claim it's scientific, affirmative proof that they're correct. They'll claim that planes don't fly over open ocean but happily omit the very reasonable explanation as to why.

When you show them they are wrong using objective info (in my argument - dictionary definitions, thesaurus, a literal breakdown of the base language which I understand well, point out missing context from their own sources) they will refute it irrationally. It's very similar to the end of the Behind the Curve movie where a group of Flat Earthers literally disprove their own theories, but instead of accepting the outcome of their experiment they start questioning their own competence and ability to perform the experiment because they're so convinced they're right, that the only way they could be wrong is if the experiment itself was flawed, making them right.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think it'd be cool if he picked up those techniques. He's against a flying opponent after all and based on the spoilers it seems like he's disadvantaged now.

That would definitely be super cool to have a flying swordsman. Even without flight, this fight seems like it will be very fast paced which should make it amazing when animated. Zoro might even have to pick up some new techniques or improve his haki to be effective.

I usually don't engage in fruitless endeavors (rarely directly respond to anything brought up by member in question as I know the result, time investment required, etc) but sometimes I think it's worthwhile to not let the loudest voice always win. Arguments are rarely, if ever, won by insulting the person's intelligence, comprehension, interpretation of reality, etc.. I see arguing as a way to constructively get my point across, and I think when it resorts to outright baseless claims against someone's character or cognitive ability then it's not really about the person you're arguing with, the points being made, or anything of the sort; it's become about your own insecurities. In the world of OP there are simply things that can't be proven with links to panels, quotes, etc because the information required to objectively prove something one way or another doesn't exist in cannon, material form yet, and it may never and always be subject to debate. It's like trying to disprove Einstein's Theory of Relativity by using Newtonian Physics - getting in your car, driving, and observing time was not dilated. Without a very high-velocity ship you aren't going to get anywhere in your argument.

A lot of what I see put out here as fact reminds me of how QAnon is communicated. If you don't think the Earth is flat, the flat-Earther will tell you that you are wrong because you haven't sailed down to Antarctica; they'll send you a picture of a vague ice wall and claim it's scientific, affirmative proof that they're correct. They'll claim that planes don't fly over open ocean but happily omit the very reasonable explanation as to why.

When you show them they are wrong using objective info (in my argument - dictionary definitions, thesaurus, a literal breakdown of the base language which I understand well, point out missing context from their own sources) they will refute it irrationally. It's very similar to the end of the Behind the Curve movie where a group of Flat Earthers literally disprove their own theories, but instead of accepting the outcome of their experiment they start questioning their own competence and ability to perform the experiment instead of accepting the outcome because they're so convinced they're right, that the only way they could be wrong is if the experiment itself was flawed, making them right.

I salute you sir for doing your duty to these forums. I completely get you when it comes to arguing with people over these types of things. Maybe we need to have a rotation where someone takes on the mantle for the forum so you don't burn out.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Then why change the WSM to the WSC? Clearly Oda sees a difference.

We gotta at least agree to that much

Because Kaido is not human? The word man comes from mankind, human. Basically a term for our species. Yes, the words have changed over the years, but it's still for human species.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

Srsly though, amongst the yonkos , oda didnt give any kind of world's strongest title to BM, BB or shanks.

Only WB & Kaido got those titles . Very coincidentally Kaido got that title after WB's death ( from pov of us readers).

Implying that WB was strongest in the verse earlier & now after his death kaido is.

shanks bm bb dont even have any kind of worlds strongest titles amongst the yonkos so there is 0% chance they are strongest in the verse right now.

You do have a point, but I'm fairly certain someone referred to BM as the world's strongest hag. It was never official, as in an intro card, but it has been featured in dialogue.

Having said that. So much of these titles are references to personalities as well. Kaido seem to be so much more proactive than say Big Mom and Shanks. Big Mom was even quite static during Rogers times, protecting her red poneglyph and developing her country, not really moving that much. Kaido's reputation is built on battles, waging them, losing them, surviving them. Add his race, devil fruit and the fact that WB's gone, and yes, the title suits him.

Then why change the WSM to the WSC? Clearly Oda sees a difference.

We gotta at least agree to that much

True, but does the world regard Kaido as a man? Does Kaido regard himself as a man? The answer to those question could be the reason for the chosen words.