Discussion One Piece Power level Discussion Thread

Aizen

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This thread is for Power level discussions of the various characters in One Piece. Please be mindful to keep discussions respectful and on topic.
 
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albertwv

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@KingMoe you say I get emotional but anytime anyone says something bad on Sanji you get your panties in a bunch. Looking at all your posts it’s the same stuff. “Sanji beat this guy he can beat that guy he can beat anyone, you’re just using emotions, I use facts and truth, Oda this Oda that.” You say I’m emotional, yet you’re the one showing your fan base too much that it has clouded your judgment over Sanji. Not only that but you refer to Oda waaaaay more than anyone in the thread. You shit on “ZoLo” (oh look I used the letter L, oh no) more than anyone but won’t see anything negative on Sanji’s behalf. Zolo took out at least 2/10 Hawkins’ lives right away, yet you say Zolo is weaker than Hawkins because he got “NAILED” (oh haha great joke you made there, what a knee slapper). But you won’t see any fault on Sanji vs Vergo. Smh. I asked you for proof where in the manga does it show that Sanji “easily” defeated Page One, I want to see your facts & truth you claim that’s all you speak, yet you haven’t shown me anything. You rely on a “promise” that Sanji made on defeating PO. Then you, only you, no one else in the community, implies that Sanji vs King is implied. I ask you for proof on where does it imply that fight will occur. I still think it’s too earlier for Sanji to take on any YC. Maybe he did defeat PO, maybe he did defeated him easily but we do not know until ODA (your buddy apparently) shows us that he did, until then I wouldnt give Sanji or PO the win yet.
@M3J, maybe Garp wouldn’t have killed Akainu but for sures he could’ve done some damaged. & WB definitely held back, you know he could’ve gone all 100% if his crew wasn’t there. &&&& Garp did NOT sucker punch Marco. Dude they were in a war zone, on opposite sides, Marco was just slower than Garp. For an old man to punch Marco while Kizaru couldn’t, that says a lot from Garp. Also I guess Marco sucker punched (kicked) Aokiji. Nope it was a war zone. Now Squardo sucker punched (stabbed) WB, because they were in the same sides and WB had his guard down near his ally.
 

King Moe

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@KingMoe you say I get emotional but anytime anyone says something bad on Sanji you get your panties in a bunch. Looking at all your posts it’s the same stuff. “Sanji beat this guy he can beat that guy he can beat anyone, you’re just using emotions, I use facts and truth, Oda this Oda that.” You say I’m emotional, yet you’re the one showing your fan base too much that it has clouded your judgment over Sanji. Not only that but you refer to Oda waaaaay more than anyone in the thread. You shit on “ZoLo” (oh look I used the letter L, oh no) more than anyone but won’t see anything negative on Sanji’s behalf. Zolo took out at least 2/10 Hawkins’ lives right away, yet you say Zolo is weaker than Hawkins because he got “NAILED” (oh haha great joke you made there, what a knee slapper). But you won’t see any fault on Sanji vs Vergo. Smh. I asked you for proof where in the manga does it show that Sanji “easily” defeated Page One, I want to see your facts & truth you claim that’s all you speak, yet you haven’t shown me anything. You rely on a “promise” that Sanji made on defeating PO. Then you, only you, no one else in the community, implies that Sanji vs King is implied. I ask you for proof on where does it imply that fight will occur. I still think it’s too earlier for Sanji to take on any YC. Maybe he did defeat PO, maybe he did defeated him easily but we do not know until ODA (your buddy apparently) shows us that he did, until then I wouldnt give Sanji or PO the win yet.
@M3J, maybe Garp wouldn’t have killed Akainu but for sures he could’ve done some damaged. & WB definitely held back, you know he could’ve gone all 100% if his crew wasn’t there. &&&& Garp did NOT sucker punch Marco. Dude they were in a war zone, on opposite sides, Marco was just slower than Garp. For an old man to punch Marco while Kizaru couldn’t, that says a lot from Garp. Also I guess Marco sucker punched (kicked) Aokiji. Nope it was a war zone. Now Squardo sucker punched (stabbed) WB, because they were in the same sides and WB had his guard down near his ally.
Dude, your proving more we shouldn't take you seriously. Please come back to talk to us when you can take it seriously. Not going to repeat myself if your not trying to understand my points. Reread back on my posts before posting stuff like this. Your still acting among emotions than hitting with me with facts. Hard to take you seriously especially you don't like me and M3J dislike your points.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

But Sanji didnt fight at all in a pretimeskip manner since then and got involved in the whole cake incident when would he have time to train? RS is a power up sure but is it that much of a boost other than his resistance/durability?

Orochi right now looks more like a fraud than anything, as I said before he even resorts to propaganda.
We have seen him angry and he is more goofy than anything with his heads randomly smash stuff not impressive.

For your theory of 8 head swordsmanship I see two flaws:
  1. Orochi is said to be a dual blade wielder so he uses only two swords.
  2. Zoro has proved several times before against Hachi and the new fishman guy that he had no problems dealing with opponents who have more blades then he does.
Off-screen like all the others do. Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean they never train before. It's the same in pre-timeskip, so it continues post-timeskip. His attack power and speed are still the same as his own while RS just give durability alone looking at it.

Idk, Oda wouldn't give someone an rare DF if they were bound to be 'weakling' characters. He seems to be something quite more. We can say many things on past opponents who look and do goofy things, but turn out very serious in a fight. I wouldn't underestimate that.

1. In human form perhaps, but not in Zoan form which he can probably hold more forms. I don't think the public even know his Zoan form as we never hear any of the citizens refer to it much. So could give element of surprise on what he can truly do.

2. True, but that doesn't mean all be the same in easy for him as can be difficult especially if Orochi's is based on the lore of the actual 'Orochi', then even if he cuts the heads, more grow back in place and thus he can down him that easily like the past people he face.
 

nik87

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@albertwv @M3J Hm, about Garp and Marco... It's hard to tell if it was cheap-shot or not.


Marco wasn't aware that he was being attacked that is true but he looked directly at the spot where Garp was... :hmm

I am leaning more towards cheap-shot, it's similar to Zoro cheap-shotting Hawkins in the first hit but in that case Hawkins was also distracted by the lizard while here nothing distracted Marco...
 

albertwv

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Marco vs Garp was not a cheap shot. Marco headed straight to where was Ace at, and Ace was right next to both Garp & Sengoku. Did Marco just think “oh hey they’ll let me grab Ace without stopping me.” No of course not. Marco knew what he was getting into by flying to grab Ace. Garp saw an enemy coming straight in his direction so he punched him.

@KingMoe, I’ve asked you repeatedly for facts & I mean references citations, have you ever written a research paper? You know when you claim to write only facts you have to back them up if not then there’s nothing backing your “facts”. You’re the emotional one here, I’ve showed you facts yet you want to ignore them because it makes your hero look bad. Nobody can take you seriously with your fan base.

And there you go again referring to Oda, “Oda wouldn’t give someone a rare DF if they were bound to be weakling”. You act like you know what Oda is thinking. If you’re going to refer to Oda, please state facts, facts that Oda said so himself from either SBS, Databook, or interviews. NOT what you think Oda might say/do.
Can’t take you seriously.
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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I doubt that it was known decades ago because they didnt search for people with that tattoo before but just started now and the tattoo was probably only invented after Orochi seized power.

Luffy's hardening always failed against sharp slices/cuts/piercing but it was against actual opponents. Hard to tell what the power behind the collar is but for the sake of the story it has to be dangerous for Luffy otherwise it makes no sense.

@kcd I like that idea a lot. Maybe Luffy gets the collar off himself somehow but grandpa Hyo is about to get killed by it and Luffy grabs it and tries to break it apart and cant and suddenly he just stretches it apart...
Nope not always. Remember Rebecca couldn't slash him while she was controlled by Doffy's strings.

I don't know where you get the idea? Luffy's hardening isn't just easily bypassed by sharp objects unless the opponent themselves are very capable Haki users like Cracker.

IIRC he even blocked Katakuri's trident with hardening at one point during their battle.
 
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nik87

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Marco vs Garp was not a cheap shot. Marco headed straight to where was Ace at, and Ace was right next to both Garp & Sengoku. Did Marco just think “oh hey they’ll let me grab Ace without stopping me.” No of course not. Marco knew what he was getting into by flying to grab Ace. Garp saw an enemy coming straight in his direction so he punched him.
Well, you do have a point since he was looking directly at Garp, Ace and Sengoku... This is a real speed feat for Garp, unlike those cheap shot "speed feats" of you know who. :toc
 

nik87

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Nope not always. Remember Rebecca couldn't slash him while she was controlled by Doffy's strings.
I don't know where you get the idea? Luffy's hardening isn't just easily bypassed by sharp objects unless the opponent themselves are very capable Haki users like Cracker.
IIRC he even blocked Katakuri's trident with hardening at one point during their battle.
I get your point but Rebecca is no match for Luffy, same like Vergo easily blocked Tashigi because she was no match for him. That's why I said, it's hard to tell what the power behind collar blades is and that for the story purposes it's not as easy as shielding with haki, it simply takes the main purpose of the collar away.

Every stronger opponent bypassed Luffy's CoA, from Hody to Doffy to Cracker...
He never tanked Katakuri's trident.
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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I get your point but Rebecca is no match for Luffy, same like Vergo easily blocked Tashigi because she was no match for him. That's why I said, it's hard to tell what the power behind collar blades is and that for the story purposes it's not as easy as shielding with haki, it simply takes the main purpose of the collar away.

Every stronger opponent bypassed Luffy's CoA, from Hody to Doffy to Cracker...
He never tanked Katakuri's trident.
He blocked it in the Anime (don't know if that counts) but still, yeah the message is passed. Strong opponents with sharp weapons are able to bypass Luffy's CoA which goes back to the same problem Luffy has. A relatively weak CoA.
 

kcd

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Every stronger opponent bypassed Luffy's CoA, from Hody to Doffy to Cracker...
He never tanked Katakuri's trident.
Luffy uses his strongest version of hardening only in gear four. It's the one that have the flamy design pattern around it.
I say it's the strongest because we've only seen top tiers use it — Bigmom (to defend against Luffy's gear4) and Katakuri (when going all-out with his strongest attack).

Only yonko commanders have been able to bypass it so far, and for obvious reasons. But surely, the likes of hordy Jones won't compete with that.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Even Doffy's final attack which is a piercing attack failed to bypass his hardening when it clashed with the KKG.
If it's a head-on clash, I doubt Cracker would've cut him.
 

nik87

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@kcd I think there is no difference between his hardening in base form and G4, there is no reason for it to be stronger in gears compared to base form.
The flamy design is, imo, just better visual solution on a bulkier body than to cut it off in a straight line as it's done on slim base form...
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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@kcd I think there is no difference between his hardening in base form and G4, there is no reason for it to be stronger in gears compared to base form.
The flamy design is, imo, just better visual solution on a bulkier body than to cut it off in a straight line as it's done on slim base form...
But how do we explain Katakuri having the flame design later on?

If it's due to bulk, we can say that's true as Big Mom and G4 Luffy are bulky. But then again Katakuri can be said to be bulky as well given his physique which would be consistent if he had it stocked like Big Mom right from the start. I think it was at the point when he started using his harder, more concentrated blocked mochi technique did he reveal the flame CoA pattern (too lazy to go back to WCI arc again) :sweatdrop
A little dilemma here we could say...
I've been wondering... Who's bigger?
Katakuri or Whitebeard?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

But how do we explain Katakuri having the flame design later on?

If it's due to bulk, we can say that's true as Big Mom and G4 Luffy are bulky. But then again Katakuri can be said to be bulky as well given his physique which would be consistent if he had it stocked like Big Mom right from the start. I think it was at the point when he started using his harder, more concentrated blocked mochi technique did he reveal the flame CoA pattern (too lazy to go back to WCI arc again) :sweatdrop
If it's something else then we've got a little dilemma here we could say...
I've been wondering... Who's bigger?
Katakuri or Whitebeard?
 
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Regarding of garp i suppose he is a marine equivalent to gol d roger so its no wonder.
 

kcd

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@kcd I think there is no difference between his hardening in base form and G4, there is no reason for it to be stronger in gears compared to base form.
The flamy design is, imo, just better visual solution on a bulkier body than to cut it off in a straight line as it's done on slim base form...
Not gears in general, just gear four.

Snakeman looks less bulkier than boundman, but it still had the flamy design.

I'm also highly certain Katakuri was bigger than gear four Luffy, yet there was no flamy design pattern untill he decided to finally go all-out. It hints it might be stronger than normal hardening.
 

nik87

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But how do we explain Katakuri having the flame design later on?

If it's due to bulk, we can say that's true as Big Mom and G4 Luffy are bulky. But then again Katakuri can be said to be bulky as well given his physique which would be consistent if he had it stocked like Big Mom right from the start. I think it was at the point when he started using his harder, more concentrated blocked mochi technique did he reveal the flame CoA pattern (too lazy to go back to WCI arc again) :sweatdrop
A little dilemma here we could say...
I've been wondering... Who's bigger?
Katakuri or Whitebeard?
I think Katakuri only had flamy design on the bulky Diced Mochi move, otherwise, it was portrayed regularly.
WB seems bigger - 6.66cm, Katakuri - 5.07cm, if I remember right.

Not gears in general, just gear four.

Snakeman looks less bulkier than boundman, but it still had the flamy design.

I'm also highly certain Katakuri was bigger than gear four Luffy, yet there was no flamy design pattern untill he decided to finally go all-out. It hints it might be stronger than normal hardening.
You have a point with Snakeman form, not that bulky. I dont know if it's stronger form of Hardening, it doesnt look like it to me.
He was hurting against Katakuri with non-flamy design as well as with flamy design...
Who knows...
 

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@M3J, maybe Garp wouldn’t have killed Akainu but for sures he could’ve done some damaged. & WB definitely held back, you know he could’ve gone all 100% if his crew wasn’t there. &&&& Garp did NOT sucker punch Marco. Dude they were in a war zone, on opposite sides, Marco was just slower than Garp. For an old man to punch Marco while Kizaru couldn’t, that says a lot from Garp. Also I guess Marco sucker punched (kicked) Aokiji. Nope it was a war zone. Now Squardo sucker punched (stabbed) WB, because they were in the same sides and WB had his guard down near his ally.
Whitebeard had no reason to hold back, given his devil fruit he could have done more damage. His age was his weakness.

Garp definitely could have. And I"m arguing that he didn't lose that much power, if he even did, due to age. But then again, Garp says he's rusty, and he knows better, but that could be due to not being in good fights.

Garp was able to punch Marco because Marco didn't expect it, unless Kizaru also tried to surprise attack Marco but failed. In any case, nik87 probably said it better, it's a cheap shot because Marco noticed movement but likely didn't expect Garp to fight.
@albertwv @M3J Hm, about Garp and Marco... It's hard to tell if it was cheap-shot or not.


Marco wasn't aware that he was being attacked that is true but he looked directly at the spot where Garp was... :hmm

I am leaning more towards cheap-shot, it's similar to Zoro cheap-shotting Hawkins in the first hit but in that case Hawkins was also distracted by the lizard while here nothing distracted Marco...
Wait, I thought Marco noticed something and then got punched in the next panel by Garp... did he? I don't remember what happens in the next panel.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Regarding of garp i suppose he is a marine equivalent to gol d roger so its no wonder.
I think the main argument is that age made him weaker as it did Whitebeard, but WHitebeard was also ill. Not sure how much older he is to Garp though.
 

nik87

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@M3J I think I side with Albert here on not cheap-shot. The next panel is what Sachsenhesse linked.
Marco was looking at Garp and noticed him but couldnt react in time.
 

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Likely, or he saw Garp disappear or had no idea. Still though, Garp hasn't shown any sign of age affecting him during the war and even after the timeskip.
 

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@kcd I think there is no difference between his hardening in base form and G4, there is no reason for it to be stronger in gears compared to base form.
The flamy design is, imo, just better visual solution on a bulkier body than to cut it off in a straight line as it's done on slim base form...

Don't agree, otherwise his Haki consumption during Gear 4 wouldn't leave him Haki-less for 10 minutes. His consumption clearly increases in Gear 4, which I can only mean it is stronger than normal imo
Besides, he seemed resilient enough to even take hits from DD without flinching too in his Gear 4
 

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Whitebeard had no reason to hold back, given his devil fruit he could have done more damage. His age was his weakness.

Garp definitely could have. And I"m arguing that he didn't lose that much power, if he even did, due to age. But then again, Garp says he's rusty, and he knows better, but that could be due to not being in good fights.

Garp was able to punch Marco because Marco didn't expect it, unless Kizaru also tried to surprise attack Marco but failed. In any case, nik87 probably said it better, it's a cheap shot because Marco noticed movement but likely didn't expect Garp to fight.


Wait, I thought Marco noticed something and then got punched in the next panel by Garp... did he? I don't remember what happens in the next panel.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



I think the main argument is that age made him weaker as it did Whitebeard, but WHitebeard was also ill. Not sure how much older he is to Garp though.
Garp is the second oldest of them legends. He's older than Roger (if he was alive), Whitebeard, and probably Shiki, same age with Rayleigh (also second oldest legend)
He's 78 years old stated vividly in Oda's SBS.
PK is 77 (if he was alive), a year younger than his RHM.
WB is 74 (if he was still alive).

So yeah, Whitebeard is younger, 4 years younger than Garp.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Likely, or he saw Garp disappear or had no idea. Still though, Garp hasn't shown any sign of age affecting him during the war and even after the timeskip.
Exactly the point being passed. He is so freaking strong even in old age that people (both readers and citizens of the OP world) still wonder how monstrous he was in his younger days.

It's best we stoppe giving excuses.
When Whitebeard and other characters said Whitebeard got weakened due to old age. No one asked questions or gave excuses.

Now when one who's even more dreary than him (yes Garp is stronger than WB accept it or not) and other characters said Garp has weakened due to old age.
Questions are being asked and faulters are all over the place.

This dispute is having a little Sanji vibe around it. Well it's nice for a change. I won't be the one to fuel the Cakebaker/Soba Mask/Stealthblack/Blackleg (this guy's going to be a legend - names alone is already pointing in that direction) debate.

PS: I just couldn't help it. :smile-big
 
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