Few things about the OP community that has me proud, we have finally come to a point where the majority (even
@M3J ) acknowledge that power levels aren't the be all and end all of the OPverse. A>B>C does not work here, great to see that acknowledged.
what? I'm probably one of the few, if not the only one, who says power levels mean little and that it's all about match-ups. I mean, if I kept insisting on power levels mattered, then I wouldn't be challenging assumptions and shit.
Shanks didn't go there crying about a scar that he just happened to get, he went there to warn Whitebeard about the strength of Blackbeard because that scar proves that Blackbeard is formidable. That's the entire point.
Actually, it was implied. The trend way already apparent before Tamago and Pedro, it more or less confirmed the trend. So, there is basis. Shanks stated he wasn't careless against Blackbeard. The entire point of going to Whitebeard and using his scar to make a point was to indicate that Blackbeard is powerful.
If aching scars have no significance, then why is it that every-time
anyone has an aching scar, it denotes to something negative that reflects their own powerlessness?
- Chinjao lost his wealth and power because of Garp, thus the reason his scar aches.
- Tamago lost his eye to Pedro, thus the reason his scar aches.
- Whitebeard could never become Pirate King because of Roger and they fought all the time, implies Roger was the victor in the end.
Luffy being unconscious is irrelevant; whether or not he was conscious didn't change the reality that Akainu was simply superior. The point is Akainu symbolised his lack of power or his weakness, and it ultimately denotes to a negative outcome that doesn't reflect well on their part like every instance where there's an aching scar.
It's not an assumption when there's a consistent trend or pattern. However, go ahead and find any character with an aching scar that doesn't have negative connotations. At the very least, Shanks was humiliated by Blackbeard in terms of strength.
Yes, we agree on the point. If Shanks lost to Blackbeard, it'd make more sense to mention that than to just say he got scars.
Did I ever say aching scars were insignificant? I mean, if you're gonna put words in my mouth and make it look like I said something when I didn't, then there's no point in arguing with you.
3. You keep insisting Whitebeard wanted to become Pirate King, but you can't provide proof of this.
It is relevant because Luffy got the scar when he was not conscious and was unable to defend himself. Akainu was superior, but he probably couldn't have hit LUffy if Luffy was allowed to move around. It's still not Luffy's loss.
There's no trend or pattern to scars and loss. All we know is Shanks got scars from Blackbeard after underestimating him, but we don't know when and who won. We know Luffy was unconscious and was being saved by Jinbei when Akainu gave him that scar. We know Chinjao lost to Garp when he got that scar, and all we know is that Pedro took Tamago's eye and gave him a scar as a result, but not who won or lost. Make up your mind, are you arguing that the characters who got scars lost or are you arguing that there's a negative connotation?
Or, Shanks got hurt by Blackbeard and has a bad memory of that, potentially due to Blackbeard's power that he hasn't shown yet, but the fight didn't end with a clear winner. Perhaps Shanks was humiliated, but if getting drinks thrown at him and cleaning up a bandit's mess didn't humiliate him, I doubt losing to someone who might actually be dangerous would humiliate him. But that's just an assumption
Roger and Whitebeard fought a lot. You can't be weak and fight Whitebeard. Wanting a family and being Pirate King do not conflict with each other. Just because he wanted a family doesn't mean he could never have wanted to become Pirate King. It's like saying that because Big Mom wants a family where everyone is of equal size means she can't want to be Pirate King? Broken logic there because both are distinct goals from each other.
Fact is Roger and Whitebeard and Shiki fought each other all the time. People only really fight when they have a common goal that causes conflict between themselves. End of the day, Whitebeard did all the things that indicate he once aimed to be Pirate King:
- He went to Wano.
- He recruited Oden.
- And Roger offered him the location to Raftel most likely because he must have wanted it at some point in time.
More likely he relinquished interest in One Piece only after Roger beat him to it. He was a very proud man.
Yes they did. And while they don't conflict with each other, Whitebeard also showed no signs of wanting to become Pirate King. Big Mom made it clear her goal was to become Pirate King as well (even if it's not her priority, apparently), while Whitebeard has never stated such desire, even when questioned why he didn't want treasures. And from what Rayleigh shared, Roger didn't care either until he learned he was dying and wanted to go out with a bang.
Not really, no. They were rivals for the title of the strongest pirate, but it doesn't mean any of the three wanted to become Pirate King, especially when there were treasures to be had.
1. Why did he go to Wano? Was this mentioned in the manga, or are you assuming that Wano was part of his journey to become Pirate King?
2. Did he recruit Oden, or did Oden ask to join Whitebeard because they were friends, and he trusted him?
3. Roger could have offered Whitebeard the location because he wanted Whitebeard to find Raftel and trusted him to do what Roger couldn't. Doesn't mean Whitebeard wanted to get to Raftel.
Or he never cared in the first place. Otherwise, why not say "I want my own family with whom I can become the King of the Pirates with," like Luffy? Luffy's made it perfectly clear he wants to become the Pirate King, but with his crew and no less.
Nope, Luck and Strength are 2 different things.
No matter how lucky a character is, they will have limitations for being weak. Entire reason Luffy had to become strong despite having the strongest luck is because luck cannot overcome difference in strength, it has limitations. If Luffy could just become Pirate King despite being weak and just lucky, there'd have been no time-skip, that much is a fact.
Luck will affect circumstances and guarantee survival, it doesn't impact victory which comes from strength ultimately; Luffy's attacks are not strong because of luck, but strength.
Luck without strength, and Luffy could never have defeated Joker or Katakuri or Cracker. What exactly did Luffy's so-called luck do for him against the Admirals pre-skip? He still had to go into hiding for 2 years to bridge the gap in strength between himself and those at the summit.
if anything, you're missing the point of the Ed war. That wasn't even a fight between 2 people, was a fight between ships. That tells us nothing about Shiki's strength or Roger's or anyone else for that matter. It's as ridiculous as using the strength of the Sunny as gauge for how strong Luffy is. Only thing it tells us he's lucky, but strength and luck have 2 distinct roles. You can't just invoke luck as reason Roger became Pirate King.
LUck and strength are also related to each other.
Never said Luffy was weak, just that he is immensely lucky, which helps augment his willpower, durability, and strength. how can luck not impact victory if it doesn't affect circumstances? If Luffy hadn't had that one drop of water, he'd have been dead. If he wasn't lucky enough for Robin to want to save him, then he'd have been dead. If Luffy wasn't lucky enough to make allies, he'd have died in Impel Down or have been killed by an admiral during the war. Luffy's luck allowed him to survive these and keep on fighting while his willpower made him not give up, which allowed him to show his strength.
Yes you can, otherwise you should raise the issue with Garp as he's the one who said this, and I'm basing it off him. It's not hard to understand that luck allowed Roger to fare better against Shiki, if not survive. A fight between ships or not, the storm still allowed Roger to win because it cut Shiki's power in half when half of his fleet went down. Yet people will still say he beat Shiki, and that he's stronger than Shiki even if he'd have lost against Shiki's full might. Luck played a part in Roger's victory, whether or not it was a fight between ships or people.
And Luffy's development has all been planned and staged because they need him for something? They tried the same thing with Roger, but he wouldn't cooperate so they go in early with Luffy through Shanks?...
