Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

From his heavy Sanji fanboyism. That's where.

Unless he means Sanji + .?????.

Nah, just putting facts and logic as always and to denied that still is heavy hate few you are doing as clear as day where Oda is taking Sanji on who he is facing.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2019 ---

yeah that was what I meant, sorry.
Like Sanji has to one up Zoros bounty, and Zoro will one up Luffys bounty or something like that

Don't think I ever see Sanji and Zoro surpassing Luffy's bounty at all, but you are right their bounties would need to get close especially those two need to establish themselves as Yonko Commanders for the Strawhats, so see it likely like that.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019 ---

Dude, that's sealed in writing then.

Queen vs Zoro confirmed. Sanji can fight King, King Moe was right all along.

But seriously speaking, I would expectto see Jack vs Sanji. My reason doesnt have to do anything with the powerlevel differences between Sanji and Zoro, but the mere fact that Sanji vs Jack will be considered a poetic revenge specially since he is considered the savior of Zou.

Now since this is a powerlevel discussion thread, i wanna introduce a new controversy....
Law > Zoro
and Law will face King....

@nik87
what do you say?

I used to think that with Sanji vs Jack, but that was before King and Queen were introduce. Though revenge will come more Zou Leaders as Sanji don't have deep grudge to face Jack compare to them. Would be interesting they meet and have a clash for a bit, but still him vs either King and Queen more.

Also I agree with Law fighting King as it's kinda hinted in their names and they have some vibe between them to make it work. Also Law need someone credible to keep up as Luffy's rival to PK throne as well with Kidd's rivalry as need to make up his efforts more. Defeating King would be quite ideal out of it.

 

[hokageji]

Also I agree with Law fighting King as it's kinda hinted in their names and they have some vibe between them to make it work

How is it hinted? I fail to recognize the connection. I would rather prefer the 3 take down Kaido together, but Law vs King would be great too.

 

[King Moe]

How is it hinted? I fail to recognize the connection. I would rather prefer the 3 take down Kaido together, but Law vs King would be great too.

True, but that more team effort than single effort and Law need a big single victory on his own. Beating a YC and coming to assist against Kaido help prove himself more. He needs one to help redeem his performance a bit more from Dressrosa, so would like that.

 

[nik87]

I think with what we've seen of Shutenmaru, it's fair to say he's stronger than Jack.
So if there's a possibility of a team up, it won't be on Shutenmaru's but on Jack's side.
Shutenmaru doesn't even see Jack as capable enough to take him down as his only cause for concern is Kaido (isn't everyone's?).
Also a tag team of both Dukes will be too bad for Jack. IIRC, just one of them was trouble enough to keep Jack from having his way. 2 will be overkill.
Do you guys want Jack dying that bad?

We still havent seen Jack in hybrid form and I think it will be significantly stronger than his normal human form, that's why I see 2vs1 against him.

He needs one to help redeem his performance a bit more from Dressrosa, so would like that.

Law doesn't need to redeem himself for Dressrosa, he killed(basically) a Shichibukai, it's just that Doffy had a plot armor to survive Gamma knife so Luffy could be the one to take him out.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

We still havent seen Jack in hybrid form and I think it will be significantly stronger than his normal human form, that's why I see 2vs1 against him.

That's true but I still don't see a tag team against him. It means whoever is fighting him isn't strong enough to take him on one on one which I doubt since Inuarashi is confirmed (by Luffy) to be impressively strong. Same can be said about Nekomamushi.
Moreover things were looking bad for Jack in his clash with Shutenmaru so it's expected he'll need something stronger to stand a chance.

Bottom line: Whoever will be facing Jack as long as it's a top character will be taking him on solo

 

[albertwv]

@roggie thank you! I guess I’m not the only one who sees his obsession with Sanji & he claims that is all facts and truth about Sanji & it seems that he knows what Oda is thinking. He always brings up Oda in his posts.
Anyways,
I don’t see Sanji taking on any YC this arc, but hey “facts and logic” claim otherwise. I also don’t see Zolo vs. Orochi, Oro looks weak even with his DF but hey who knows. I think Oro is a match up for Kinemon & the rest with Momo dealing last blow.

On a serious note guys, I do not see Luffy taking Kaido down in this arc. Unless he teams up with all the supernovas in Wano to include Drake Hawkins & Apoo. Kaidou One shotted him so for him to get strong enough in the same arc to beat a Yonkou is highly impossible.

I think Jack is stronger than Dog & Cat. Maybe not if they both came at him at the same time but on a 1v1. He fought restlessly for 5 days while they took turns, this a win for Jack. also I see Jack > Shutenmaru, because Shutenmaru = Dog, as stated by Kinenon or Momo, maybe they weren’t serious but still. In Jack vs Shutenmaru, Jack has some crazy durability. Unless you’re KingMoe and say he lost the fight because he bled & was treated immediately afterwards (Zolo vs Hawkins)

Oh and Sanji or Zolo vs Queen because of the bounty is dumb “1B + Sanji/Zolo bounty” doesn’t make sense. Also nowhere & I mean nowhere unless you’re Oda or know what Oda is thinking (KingM ) does it imply Sanji vs King.

What’s this issue with Garp @M3J? Dude you do not mess with the legends. Garp is still admiral level today, 2 yrs ago if Sengoku had not stopped Garp, he would’ve killed Akainu or at least heavily injured him. You know WB didn’t go all out on him because he was afraid of destroying the island before his sons left. I’m sure if it was in PH, WB would’ve killed Akainu. Garp would’ve at least done some damage to Akainu. I still think Garp Is admiral level in PostTS. It hasn’t shown him getting weaker because of age. He “sucker punched” Marco??? GTFO. If Marco who matched up against Admirals didn’t see an old Garp coming at him, it shows how fast Garp is. Sucker punch my ass.

And @hokageji, you got me there at first. I was shocked thinking you were crazy but then I read past it LOL.

 

[Takuan]

What’s this issue with Garp @M3J? Dude you do not mess with the legends. Garp is still admiral level today, 2 yrs ago if Sengoku had not stopped Garp, he would’ve killed Akainu or at least heavily injured him. You know WB didn’t go all out on him because he was afraid of destroying the island before his sons left. I’m sure if it was in PH, WB would’ve killed Akainu. Garp would’ve at least done some damage to Akainu. I still think Garp Is admiral level in PostTS. It hasn’t shown him getting weaker because of age. He “sucker punched” Marco??? GTFO. If Marco who matched up against Admirals didn’t see an old Garp coming at him, it shows how fast Garp is. Sucker punch my ass.

M3J agrees with you, i was the one saying all this.

Well that is your opinion, and is what most people seem to believe. I personally disagree. You can say he's still admiral level, imo he's below the three pre-timeskip Admirals and his mediocre feats only confirm. At least his feats confirm that being skeptical is only fair; hype from 20 years ago only goes so far.

2 years ago if Sengoku had not stopped Garp he would've killed Akainu?! Really? Again there's no proof of that and you're entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, Sengoku stopped Garp because 1) he knew Garp would have lost, 2) the hero of the marines would have commited an act of treason.
Garp heavily injuring Akainu is fine, i think i agree that he would have been able to injure Akainu, but still woulda lost. And in the end that's exactly how i see Garp in power levels, just below the pre-timeskip Admirals, still able to fight them and give them trouble but inferior nonetheless.

In fact yes, Garp himself said that age plays a role and that he got weaker with years.
Of course he sucker punched Marco. You can say whatever you want about Garp and his hype from before, but that is a fact, in Marineford he indeed sucker punched Marco. That is his only good feat from Marineford; heck, from the entire series. Not counting hype from 20 years ago.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

In Jack vs Shutenmaru, Jack has some crazy durability. Unless you’re KingMoe and say he lost the fight because he bled & was treated immediately afterwards (Zolo vs Hawkins)

Nope, Zoro vs Hawkins is different. Zoro easily one shot Hawkins - twice - but he's got nine lives (ten actually - had to include the cat joke) maximum. so 2 down 8 to go, and this is me giving Hawkins his full trickery advantage cos he didn't have up to 10 men available in that clash. That is how things are for Hawkins thanks to his DF. Yeah Zoro got bruised but Hawkins has a few flying slash left to survive before things get interesting.

But on Jack vs Shutenmaru, Jack was on the receiving end and had done nothing to Shutenmaru who went on to belittle Jack. I believe "small fry" was the word used.

Shutenmaru might be stronger than Inu in a drawn out battle but in a quick clash, they seem even. So far, Shutenmaru has proven he's superior to Jack. Even it wasn't a full blown battle, I'm concluding Shutenmaru would defeat Jack and at mid-high diff as you guys like to put it.

 

[King Moe]

@ afromarco005, thanks for the welcoming. I don’t know where Moe is getting the idea that Sanji will take down Queen or King in this arc when Sanji himself has NOT taken down anyone 1 on 1 since Fishman island. Yet we see Zolo not sweating it out until he fought Hawkins. But hey he shed blood therefore he is weaker than Hawkins. (Sarcasm)

What idea makes you think he won't face them? Oda is setting him up to face one of the YCs himself as if he defeated Page One easily without struggle, he is going to need a bigger challenge as he get into this war, thus YC are pointing to that especially King and Queen are quite heavily hinted to be his final fights. It's not just me thinking this, many in the fanbase are coming to this conclusion and it does follows Oda's pattern. Also you do realize characters get stronger each arc and also many of the characters in the Strawhats except Luffy haven't taken down serious threat yet either, but that doesn't mean they are not going to fight or not getting stronger on their end.

What you mean? ZoLo was sweating many times from getting captured by New Fishman Pirates, getting slammed hard by Fujitora, couldn't cut the Birdcage made by Doflamingo, got nailed (literally) by Hawkins and couldn't do anything to stop his attacks despite having Haki to prevent that. Never said injure determine who stronger and weaker, but just saying guys like you thought Zoro would damage Hawkins badly, but got reverse on it and overhype about it. You can't even admit his faults in the fight at all. You got learn to be unbiased with your approach if you want to be more believable on your end.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2019 ---

.

@roggie thank you! I guess I’m not the only one who sees his obsession with Sanji & he claims that is all facts and truth about Sanji & it seems that he knows what Oda is thinking. He always brings up Oda in his posts.
Anyways,
I don’t see Sanji taking on any YC this arc, but hey “facts and logic” claim otherwise. I also don’t see Zolo vs. Orochi, Oro looks weak even with his DF but hey who knows. I think Oro is a match up for Kinemon & the rest with Momo dealing last blow.

I think Jack is stronger than Dog & Cat. Maybe not if they both came at him at the same time but on a 1v1. He fought restlessly for 5 days while they took turns, this a win for Jack. also I see Jack > Shutenmaru, because Shutenmaru = Dog, as stated by Kinenon or Momo, maybe they weren’t serious but still. In Jack vs Shutenmaru, Jack has some crazy durability. Unless you’re KingMoe and say he lost the fight because he bled & was treated immediately afterwards (Zolo vs Hawkins)

Oh and Sanji or Zolo vs Queen because of the bounty is dumb “1B + Sanji/Zolo bounty” doesn’t make sense. Also nowhere & I mean nowhere unless you’re Oda or know what Oda is thinking (KingM ) does it imply Sanji vs King.

Not obsession, just putting what is right unlike you who have an obsession of wanting to stop those who want to praise Sanji when need be. Again your coming at me by emotional points, not series facts. Never said I know what Oda is taking the series, but you seem to be saying that on your end and bringing up Oda more in your posts compare to me. Don't be hypocrite when your try to counter someone now please.

Sanji is going to face one as tell me since he easily defeated T6H, what is next to give him a challenge as the only next position would be an YC like it or not, so what are your 'ideals' thinking it won't be like that when Queen and King have relationship similar to Sanji and Zoro. Not the first time those two face opponents who have rivalry themselves or relationship like theirs as look at Bon Clay and Daz Bones, Jabra and Kaku, etc.. You seem to be good ignoring past context and actions from within the series. How long you been a fan as your not bringing up a good defense on your side at all?

I said Orochi more cause Zoro needs more feats for swordsmanship and since Orochi seem to be the most praised on enemy side for swordsmanship, he need to face him as been complaints on Zoro not having more swordsman opponents with great skill. We shouldn't underestimate Orochi especially his Mythical Zoan DF as his as he wouldn't go down that easily at all. I don't see Kinemon and Momosike taking him on even together.

Nah, I am one that don't overhype ZoLo and thinking he looks good in the fight with Hawkins like a drone when clearly Hawkins wasn't trying much compare to Zoro. Never said he would lose a fight with him, but it won't be a easy fight with him regardless. Sad that you think ZoLo is an unstoppable character when he isn't.

I never use that theory to determine that, Kato said it himself. Your actually criticizing him more than me. Please control your emotions as you posts as your now debating with other's opinons by mistake than mine . Just friendly advice so you know how to debate better and not give in to personal mindset. Don't take defense with my words that badly please.

 

[M3J]

What’s this issue with Garp @M3J? Dude you do not mess with the legends. Garp is still admiral level today, 2 yrs ago if Sengoku had not stopped Garp, he would’ve killed Akainu or at least heavily injured him. You know WB didn’t go all out on him because he was afraid of destroying the island before his sons left. I’m sure if it was in PH, WB would’ve killed Akainu. Garp would’ve at least done some damage to Akainu. I still think Garp Is admiral level in PostTS. It hasn’t shown him getting weaker because of age. He “sucker punched” Marco??? GTFO. If Marco who matched up against Admirals didn’t see an old Garp coming at him, it shows how fast Garp is. Sucker punch my ass.

oh fuck off, provide proof if you're gonna respond this strongly. Sengoku could have stopped Garp just so Akainu wouldn't kill Garp for all we know. Whitebeard wasn't afraid of destroying the island, otherwise he wouldn't have caused as much damage as he did. Whitebeard unlike Garp has a pretty powerful devil fruit and was still unable to keep Akainu down.

It's called sucker punch because Garp punched Marco out of nowhere, even if I was quoting Takuan or whoever said that.

 

[King Moe]

oh fuck off, provide proof if you're gonna respond this strongly. Sengoku could have stopped Garp just so Akainu wouldn't kill Garp for all we know. Whitebeard wasn't afraid of destroying the island, otherwise he wouldn't have caused as much damage as he did. Whitebeard unlike Garp has a pretty powerful devil fruit and was still unable to keep Akainu down.

It's called sucker punch because Garp punched Marco out of nowhere, even if I was quoting Takuan or whoever said that.

Sadly the guy not trying to be reasonable in his posts much, M3J. Again we have a new member like that. Why can't we all learn to agree to disagree instead getting emotional just because you don't like a opinion that has backing to it?

 

[afromarco005]

@King Moe do they?
Characters were given the excuse of becoming stronger with each fight or with the 2years training arc.

Luffy got many fights, Ussop unlocked haki, Nami got zeus but what concrete evidence do we have that Punk Hazard Sanji is weaker than wano Sanji???

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2019 ---

@King Moe orochi swordmaship praise was clearly propaganda to give kids a fake perception of history and the shogun. Nothing to do with the 8 headed snake swordsplay

 

[King Moe]

@King Moe do they?
Characters were given the excuse of becoming stronger with each fight or with the 2years training arc.

Luffy got many fights, Ussop unlocked haki, Nami got zeus but what concrete evidence do we have that Punk Hazard Sanji is weaker than wano Sanji???

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2019 ---

@King Moe orochi swordmaship praise was clearly propaganda to give kids a fake perception of history and the shogun. Nothing to do with the 8 headed snake swordsplay

Both, pretty sure they get stronger from 2 year timeskip while still training and getting stronger for each arc.

Pretty sure as that moment Sanji wasn't 100% when fighting Vergo (Though if more refresh he would have defeated him in the long run), but he is more in Wano arc since he easily defeat PO. Saying he still same lvl doesn't make sense much to think he never will get stronger.

Idk, you can do a lot of swordsmanship with those 8 heads especially more if the lore that if you cut a head off, more grow in his place. Just think of what he can produce and for Zoro in fighting with all those blades in hand. As for the reason why, that isn't talk about, possibly because he never got push to the point of using with anyone especially he got Kaido to fight for him. Not because he is weak, I see it more he is lazy doing things on his own more. Though you can't tell me it would be a big fight with him vs Zoro with sword play. Many potential to go around and we shouldn't underestimate Mythical Zoan DF.

 

[afromarco005]

Both, pretty sure they get stronger from 2 year timeskip while still training and getting stronger for each arc.

Pretty sure as that moment Sanji wasn't 100% when fighting Vergo (Though if more refresh he would have defeated him in the long run), but he is more in Wano arc since he easily defeat PO. Saying he still same lvl doesn't make sense much to think he never will get stronger.

Idk, you can do a lot of swordsmanship with those 8 heads especially more if the lore that if you cut a head off, more grow in his place. Just think of what he can produce and for Zoro in fighting with all those blades in hand. As for the reason why, that isn't talk about, possibly because he never got push to the point of using with anyone especially he got Kaido to fight for him. Not because he is weak, I see it more he is lazy doing things on his own more. Though you can't tell me it would be a big fight with him vs Zoro with sword play. Many potential to go around and we shouldn't underestimate Mythical Zoan DF.

But Sanji didnt fight at all in a pretimeskip manner since then and got involved in the whole cake incident when would he have time to train? RS is a power up sure but is it that much of a boost other than his resistance/durability?

Orochi right now looks more like a fraud than anything, as I said before he even resorts to propaganda.
We have seen him angry and he is more goofy than anything with his heads randomly smash stuff not impressive.

For your theory of 8 head swordsmanship I see two flaws:

1. Orochi is said to be a dual blade wielder so he uses only two swords.
2. Zoro has proved several times before against Hachi and the new fishman guy that he had no problems dealing with opponents who have more blades then he does.

 

[albertwv]

@KingMoe you say I get emotional but anytime anyone says something bad on Sanji you get your panties in a bunch. Looking at all your posts it’s the same stuff. “Sanji beat this guy he can beat that guy he can beat anyone, you’re just using emotions, I use facts and truth, Oda this Oda that.” You say I’m emotional, yet you’re the one showing your fan base too much that it has clouded your judgment over Sanji. Not only that but you refer to Oda waaaaay more than anyone in the thread. You shit on “ZoLo” (oh look I used the letter L, oh no) more than anyone but won’t see anything negative on Sanji’s behalf. Zolo took out at least 2/10 Hawkins’ lives right away, yet you say Zolo is weaker than Hawkins because he got “NAILED” (oh haha great joke you made there, what a knee slapper). But you won’t see any fault on Sanji vs Vergo. Smh. I asked you for proof where in the manga does it show that Sanji “easily” defeated Page One, I want to see your facts & truth you claim that’s all you speak, yet you haven’t shown me anything. You rely on a “promise” that Sanji made on defeating PO. Then you, only you, no one else in the community, implies that Sanji vs King is implied. I ask you for proof on where does it imply that fight will occur. I still think it’s too earlier for Sanji to take on any YC. Maybe he did defeat PO, maybe he did defeated him easily but we do not know until ODA (your buddy apparently) shows us that he did, until then I wouldnt give Sanji or PO the win yet.
@M3J, maybe Garp wouldn’t have killed Akainu but for sures he could’ve done some damaged. & WB definitely held back, you know he could’ve gone all 100% if his crew wasn’t there. &&&& Garp did NOT sucker punch Marco. Dude they were in a war zone, on opposite sides, Marco was just slower than Garp. For an old man to punch Marco while Kizaru couldn’t, that says a lot from Garp. Also I guess Marco sucker punched (kicked) Aokiji. Nope it was a war zone. Now Squardo sucker punched (stabbed) WB, because they were in the same sides and WB had his guard down near his ally.

 

[King Moe]

@KingMoe you say I get emotional but anytime anyone says something bad on Sanji you get your panties in a bunch. Looking at all your posts it’s the same stuff. “Sanji beat this guy he can beat that guy he can beat anyone, you’re just using emotions, I use facts and truth, Oda this Oda that.” You say I’m emotional, yet you’re the one showing your fan base too much that it has clouded your judgment over Sanji. Not only that but you refer to Oda waaaaay more than anyone in the thread. You shit on “ZoLo” (oh look I used the letter L, oh no) more than anyone but won’t see anything negative on Sanji’s behalf. Zolo took out at least 2/10 Hawkins’ lives right away, yet you say Zolo is weaker than Hawkins because he got “NAILED” (oh haha great joke you made there, what a knee slapper). But you won’t see any fault on Sanji vs Vergo. Smh. I asked you for proof where in the manga does it show that Sanji “easily” defeated Page One, I want to see your facts & truth you claim that’s all you speak, yet you haven’t shown me anything. You rely on a “promise” that Sanji made on defeating PO. Then you, only you, no one else in the community, implies that Sanji vs King is implied. I ask you for proof on where does it imply that fight will occur. I still think it’s too earlier for Sanji to take on any YC. Maybe he did defeat PO, maybe he did defeated him easily but we do not know until ODA (your buddy apparently) shows us that he did, until then I wouldnt give Sanji or PO the win yet.
@M3J, maybe Garp wouldn’t have killed Akainu but for sures he could’ve done some damaged. & WB definitely held back, you know he could’ve gone all 100% if his crew wasn’t there. &&&& Garp did NOT sucker punch Marco. Dude they were in a war zone, on opposite sides, Marco was just slower than Garp. For an old man to punch Marco while Kizaru couldn’t, that says a lot from Garp. Also I guess Marco sucker punched (kicked) Aokiji. Nope it was a war zone. Now Squardo sucker punched (stabbed) WB, because they were in the same sides and WB had his guard down near his ally.

Dude, your proving more we shouldn't take you seriously. Please come back to talk to us when you can take it seriously. Not going to repeat myself if your not trying to understand my points. Reread back on my posts before posting stuff like this. Your still acting among emotions than hitting with me with facts. Hard to take you seriously especially you don't like me and M3J dislike your points.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 16, 2019 ---

But Sanji didnt fight at all in a pretimeskip manner since then and got involved in the whole cake incident when would he have time to train? RS is a power up sure but is it that much of a boost other than his resistance/durability?

Orochi right now looks more like a fraud than anything, as I said before he even resorts to propaganda.
We have seen him angry and he is more goofy than anything with his heads randomly smash stuff not impressive.

For your theory of 8 head swordsmanship I see two flaws:

1. Orochi is said to be a dual blade wielder so he uses only two swords.
2. Zoro has proved several times before against Hachi and the new fishman guy that he had no problems dealing with opponents who have more blades then he does.

Off-screen like all the others do. Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean they never train before. It's the same in pre-timeskip, so it continues post-timeskip. His attack power and speed are still the same as his own while RS just give durability alone looking at it.

Idk, Oda wouldn't give someone an rare DF if they were bound to be 'weakling' characters. He seems to be something quite more. We can say many things on past opponents who look and do goofy things, but turn out very serious in a fight. I wouldn't underestimate that.

1. In human form perhaps, but not in Zoan form which he can probably hold more forms. I don't think the public even know his Zoan form as we never hear any of the citizens refer to it much. So could give element of surprise on what he can truly do.

2. True, but that doesn't mean all be the same in easy for him as can be difficult especially if Orochi's is based on the lore of the actual 'Orochi', then even if he cuts the heads, more grow back in place and thus he can down him that easily like the past people he face.

 

[nik87]

@albertwv @M3J Hm, about Garp and Marco... It's hard to tell if it was cheap-shot or not.

Marco wasn't aware that he was being attacked that is true but he looked directly at the spot where Garp was...

I am leaning more towards cheap-shot, it's similar to Zoro cheap-shotting Hawkins in the first hit but in that case Hawkins was also distracted by the lizard while here nothing distracted Marco...

 

[albertwv]

Marco vs Garp was not a cheap shot. Marco headed straight to where was Ace at, and Ace was right next to both Garp & Sengoku. Did Marco just think “oh hey they’ll let me grab Ace without stopping me.” No of course not. Marco knew what he was getting into by flying to grab Ace. Garp saw an enemy coming straight in his direction so he punched him.

@KingMoe, I’ve asked you repeatedly for facts & I mean references citations, have you ever written a research paper? You know when you claim to write only facts you have to back them up if not then there’s nothing backing your “facts”. You’re the emotional one here, I’ve showed you facts yet you want to ignore them because it makes your hero look bad. Nobody can take you seriously with your fan base.

And there you go again referring to Oda, “Oda wouldn’t give someone a rare DF if they were bound to be weakling”. You act like you know what Oda is thinking. If you’re going to refer to Oda, please state facts, facts that Oda said so himself from either SBS, Databook, or interviews. NOT what you think Oda might say/do.
Can’t take you seriously.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I doubt that it was known decades ago because they didnt search for people with that tattoo before but just started now and the tattoo was probably only invented after Orochi seized power.

Luffy's hardening always failed against sharp slices/cuts/piercing but it was against actual opponents. Hard to tell what the power behind the collar is but for the sake of the story it has to be dangerous for Luffy otherwise it makes no sense.

@kcd I like that idea a lot. Maybe Luffy gets the collar off himself somehow but grandpa Hyo is about to get killed by it and Luffy grabs it and tries to break it apart and cant and suddenly he just stretches it apart...

Nope not always. Remember Rebecca couldn't slash him while she was controlled by Doffy's strings.

I don't know where you get the idea? Luffy's hardening isn't just easily bypassed by sharp objects unless the opponent themselves are very capable Haki users like Cracker.

IIRC he even blocked Katakuri's trident with hardening at one point during their battle.

 

[nik87]

Marco vs Garp was not a cheap shot. Marco headed straight to where was Ace at, and Ace was right next to both Garp & Sengoku. Did Marco just think “oh hey they’ll let me grab Ace without stopping me.” No of course not. Marco knew what he was getting into by flying to grab Ace. Garp saw an enemy coming straight in his direction so he punched him.

Well, you do have a point since he was looking directly at Garp, Ace and Sengoku... This is a real speed feat for Garp, unlike those cheap shot "speed feats" of you know who.