One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

Orochi appears to be a very incompetent samurai, that's another reason I don't see him being Zoro's opponent in Wano.

A Devil Fruit doesn't make someone strong. They may gain some strange ability, but Zoans in special increase their physical power.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2019 ---

I think characters in One Piece don't get weaker with time, but they loose stamina. That's why Rayleigh was fainting against Kizaru.

If that's the case, Rayleigh in his prime would be closer to Kizaru in power. I also suspects Shanks would also be on that level.

Isn't Kaido supposed to be the strongest of all? I think he has always been stronger than Whitebeard or Roger.

Well he was going to defend before Kyoshiro block for him. So he isn't exactly coward when something comes at him. Plus if he wasn't, Oda wouldn't push Zoro so deep with him especially knowing Yasu. He can't simply leave it alone like that. It's happening one way or another.

 

[nik87]

Roger was the strongest. The only person with strength that rivalled Roger was Whitebeard.

How is he the strongest when you say his strength was rivaled by Whitebeard?
How is he the strongest when Whitebeard had the title WSM during Roger's life and when he had the power to destroy the world, something Roger didnt?
Roger is as strongest as Buggy is... Roger fans cant swallow that he wasn't levitating above the others.

 

[nik87]

Now you just sound like a child.

All this "Whitebeard has many feats, Roger doesn't have any feat so he's a weakling". So I guess Ryokugyu is the weakest in One Piece since he hasn't got a single feat yet. The new pacifistas must be weaker than Don Krieg, since they don't have feats either yet.
Hell, I bet Dragon is a weakling since he hasn't done anything but talk yet. We haven't seen him beat anyone! I bet he hasn't been in a fight in his whole life.

What I said and what you understood are two different things.
Never have I ever called Roger a weakling. I said Buggy isnt strongest, just like Roger isnt strongest.
If there is one like you it instantly doesnt make you the strongest, it makes you equal to X, Y and/or Z.
Rest of your examples dont play a part since they address something I didnt say...

I will repeat, Roger wasnt levitating above the others, he was "equal" to at least Whitebeard who had WSM title in Roger's era and had the power to destroy the world. Roger didnt have power to destroy the world nor strength related title. Time to accept facts and see Roger for what he is.

 

[Nie Li]

Rest of your examples dont play a part since they address something I didnt say...

You said that in multiple of your many previous posts, I'm just not going to search for it, so they play. You claimed Roger's feats were disappointing and that he "achieved nothing and beat no one", when we clearly haven't been still shown nothing at all about him but three chapters of a flashback that spawned a whole year of his life. So I can mock your argument by saying Dragon must be a weakling too, since he has had more screentime than Roger yet "he has no feats".

Never have I ever called Roger a weakling. I said Buggy isnt strongest, just like Roger isnt strongest.
If there is one like you it instantly doesnt make you the strongest, it makes you equal to X, Y and/or Z.

Yet you claim Whitebeard was already "the World's Strongest Man" by then. By your own logic, that's a fallacy. "Roger, the Pirate King, can't be the strongest since he was equal to Whitebeard" (no proof Roger wasn't above him whatsoever, but let's skip that), "but Whitebeard was the strongest because he had a couple of titles". That's extremely flawed logic.

Nothing more to add, your honor.

 

[nik87]

Yet you claim Whitebeard was already "the World's Strongest Man" by then. By your own logic, that's a fallacy. "Roger, the Pirate King, can't be the strongest since he was equal to Whitebeard" (no proof Roger wasn't above him whatsoever, but let's skip that), "but Whitebeard was the strongest because he had a couple of titles". That's extremely flawed logic.

We have a clash between Roger and Whitebeard where we clearly see Whitebeard holding back his DF powers. What is Roger holding back?
WSM clearly puts WB above Roger. PK title doesn't put Roger above WB because it has nothing to do with an individual's strength.

achieved nothing and beat no one

He did achieve something, he told the world about the treasure another man left behind and said it like it was his.
Didnt beat Shiki, didnt beat WB, didnt beat Garp or Sengoku, supposedly did beat someone in God Valley but 0 information who or if even.

 

[Fox666]

Well he was going to defend before Kyoshiro block for him. So he isn't exactly coward when something comes at him. Plus if he wasn't, Oda wouldn't push Zoro so deep with him especially knowing Yasu. He can't simply leave it alone like that. It's happening one way or another.

We may see Zoro humilhating Orochi at some point, but without being his main opponent (i.e. Zoro vs Hody Jones, Luffy vs Gladius)

 

[TitaniumOxide]

We have a clash between Roger and Whitebeard where we clearly see Whitebeard holding back his DF powers. What is Roger holding back?
WSM clearly puts WB above Roger. PK title doesn't put Roger above WB because it has nothing to do with an individual's strength.

He did achieve something, he told the world about the treasure another man left behind and said it like it was his.
Didnt beat Shiki, didnt beat WB, didnt beat Garp or Sengoku, supposedly did beat someone in God Valley but 0 information who or if even.

Ever been in a fight? From experience and actually it is kind of obvious, if someone strikes from above and you match their blow, you have a much harder time to repel said attack. That is what happened. Whitebeard struck from above and Roger repelled it because he can. We don't know the results of that fight but we do know Roger can easily slap away a beast like Oden and repel Whitebeard even with a disadvantage. If WB used his quake powers, Roger would likely have repelled it either way, that is why he smacked Oden aside to fight Whitebeard. He isn't afraid of anything that Whitebeard can do.

 

[nik87]

Ever been in a fight? From experience and actually it is kind of obvious, if someone strikes from above and you match their blow, you have a much harder time to repel said attack. That is what happened. Whitebeard struck from above and Roger repelled it because he can. We don't know the results of that fight but we do know Roger can easily slap away a beast like Oden and repel Whitebeard even with a disadvantage. If WB used his quake powers, Roger would likely have repelled it either way, that is why he smacked Oden aside to fight Whitebeard. He isn't afraid of anything that Whitebeard can do.

You are using the wrong word - repel. He didnt repel anything. He matched the attack.
Yes, the real world logic applies in your example of striking above and matching the attack from below, however, Roger didnt exactly go from below but more from the side and the title of WSM belonged to WB anyway which means he is the stronger one.
He isnt afraid of anything that WB can do? Is WB afraid of anything Roger can do? What argument is that, lol? No top tier is afraid of the other.

 

[BoostJuice]

Oh man, this thread has gone through 8 pages of this already. All in all, from my meager interpretation of the discussion so far, Nik's standards for PK is simply far too different from most of us. To put it bluntly, it seems Nik wants Roger to be the unquestionable god, especially in strength to be worthy. Most of us do not share that view. Roger is a leader. He was also the most visionary man of his time, keeping his crazy ambition and completed it. To us, he is worthy because of it. And what did Mihawk said about Luffy's scariest ability? It was the unique ability to turn even enemies into allies and push him to his goal. Turning Oden into his ally in the big Whitebeard's presence is similar. And in our reality, guess who usually has that ability. Leaders. KINGS.

said it like it was his.

Ok. Let's go with that. And? What if the reason why he said that was not so that people pat him in the back, but so that generations of young men, women would break free of their doubt and do what Roger couldn't, continuing his legacy and free the world? Even if he bluffs, lies, his were the most amazing lies ever.

We have a clash between Roger and Whitebeard where we clearly see Whitebeard holding back his DF powers. What is Roger holding back?
WSM clearly puts WB above Roger. PK title doesn't put Roger above WB because it has nothing to do with an individual's strength.

This quote implied two things:
One. We think Roger is above Whitebeard. No. Roger and Whitebeard are two different men, with different ambitions. They are friends and equally great men. At least, personally, I never compared them ever and Whitebeard will always remain a respectable great man. But you are bashing Roger as if we were insulting your favorite character. A king isn't supposed to be above a warrior. But he is supposed to be widely feared and recognized.
Second. They fought for 3 days. Oda showed readers 1 page. Who are we to say any of them were holding back. Even if Whitebeard held back his DF (debatable, because Oda showed 1 page), why exactly do you claim that his opponent did not do the same? Genuine curiosity. No sarcasm.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2019 ---

don't argue this.

Oopss, I saw this after I posted.

 

[nik87]

it seems Nik wants Roger to be the unquestionable god

No. What I wanted(expected) from Roger is to be the greatest Pirate ever, as he was advertised and Roger didnt deliver.
Dude literally got all 4 Road Poneglyphs with minimal effort, had them translated by a crew member of his rival and was sailed to Raftel by his navigators.
Found another man's treasure, gave himself a made up title and told the world about it.
Is that it? Is that the greatest Pirate ever? L.A.M.E. when compared to the true OG - Whitebeard and I am not even a fan of Whitebeard but in comparison to Roger, he truly is the greatest Pirate the OP world has delivered.

Ok. Let's go with that. And? What if the reason why he said that was not so that people pat him in the back, but so that generations of young men, women would break free of their doubt and do what Roger couldn't, continuing his legacy and free the world? Even if he bluffs, lies, his were the most amazing lies ever.

Facts are clear, the treasure was never Roger's and he lied about it. You are just trying to justify his lies? Why not take them for what they are?
As I said, the whole purpose of freeing the world never had to be on Roger's shoulders. All that was necessary was a note from Joyboy on a poneglyph about his own treasure. Scholars of Ohara would have spread it to the world instead of Roger and they would have been annihilated by the WG for it and overall the story wouldnt change, just remove the unnecessary character of Roger.

This quote implied two things:
One. We think Roger is above Whitebeard. No. Roger and Whitebeard are two different men, with different ambitions. They are friends and equally great men. At least, personally, I never compared them ever and Whitebeard will always remain a respectable great man. But you are bashing Roger as if we were insulting your favorite character. A king isn't supposed to be above a warrior. But he is supposed to be widely feared and recognized.
Second. They fought for 3 days. Oda showed readers 1 page. Who are we to say any of them were holding back. Even if Whitebeard held back his DF (debatable, because Oda showed 1 page), why exactly do you claim that his opponent did not do the same? Genuine curiosity. No sarcasm.

No? And you obviously dont speak for We since you should have noticed that people who fall into We think differently from you. Some think Roger is above WB. How can you not compare them? That's what manga has done since forever, compare the two of them.
I am bashing the picture of Roger that we are supposed to believe - the greatest pirate ever.

We know WB held back because we have seen him do so, more times than once. We watched his fight to death in Marineford and he held back all the way until Ace died. His powers are way too destructive for him to not hold back considering that his crew was on the same island and we saw no major damage on the island after the 3 days fight. Roger simply isnt nowhere close to destructive as WB is, he doesnt have the power to destroy the world and isnt WSM.

 

[Fox666]

When Sanji fought Judge, it appeared Sanji would have won if Judge didn't used his soldiers as a shield.

However, after Whoke Cake Island arc, I believe Judge took it easy on Sanji, and if he wanted, he could have easily defeated Sanji.

Judge tried to attack Big Mom all by himself, and survived her lightning-fist attack.

He also stood in Snack's way.

Like the rest of Germa, Judge came out as a lame character, when he actually has some feats.

 

[Fox666]

Ever been in a fight? From experience and actually it is kind of obvious, if someone strikes from above and you match their blow, you have a much harder time to repel said attack. That is what happened. Whitebeard struck from above and Roger repelled it because he can. We don't know the results of that fight but we do know Roger can easily slap away a beast like Oden and repel Whitebeard even with a disadvantage. If WB used his quake powers, Roger would likely have repelled it either way, that is why he smacked Oden aside to fight Whitebeard. He isn't afraid of anything that Whitebeard can do.

What sort of real life fight have you been on that people are "striking from above"?

I'm not sure if it matters who is striking from above when your attack can shake an entire island

 

[King Moe]

Well Judge did survive fighting YC4 and if turns he beats him after coming back, he is YC lvl given his children are capable fighting off YVs while Sanji is strongest member in the family above them who is YC1-2 lol as his opponents looking to be Queen or King.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2019 ---

How strong is Judge? well he is stronger than Sanji

Judge is stronger than Sanji and weaker than Zoro.

Incorrect. Sanji is stronger than Judge, but he is stronger than Zoro since one stab to Zoro is all he needs .

 

[King Moe]

We may see Zoro humilhating Orochi at some point, but without being his main opponent (i.e. Zoro vs Hody Jones, Luffy vs Gladius)

Don't think so. Oda pushing too much to be fodder fight unlike those especially why waste a powerful DF if he go down easily?

 

[Pirate Queen]

What sort of real life fight have you been on that people are "striking from above"?

I'm not sure if it matters who is striking from above when your attack can shake an entire island

MMA overhead punches lol

What sort of real life fight have you been on that people are "striking from above"?

I'm not sure if it matters who is striking from above when your attack can shake an entire island

What you never get ambushed by tree ninjas? Or a cat? Or Obiwan Kenobi?

The high ground is everything

 

[Rmstorm]

Roger was sick in chapter 966, Prime Non Sick Roger age 47 is the strongest person that has ever existed.

 

[nik87]

Roger was sick in chapter 966, Prime Non Sick Roger age 47 is the strongest person that has ever existed.

WSM says otherwise.

 

[Rmstorm]

WSM says otherwise.

Yes and the Narrator of the story as well as Buggy have stated that Prime Whitebeard was equal to Prime Non Sick Roger.

 

[kcd]

WSM says otherwise.

Nik, I have just two points.

First... Although Whitebeared's fruit have destructive capabilities, it doesn't mean it can't be stopped. It's a known fact that with strong haki (the most advanced form which Rodger have been clearly shown to have, in case you missed it), you can deflect Whitebeard's abilities easily with a gentle thrust of your palms. The admirals clearly showed his abilities can be stopped. His powers are not invincible.

In just one clash we see Rodger have with WB, we observed that their swords didn't even touch. Their haki was so overpowered that it didn't allow their swords to come in contact. Point here is, your so called "Whitebeared-held-back argument" is of little relevance because they were both using something far stronger and superior to devil fruits powers—which is the most advanced Haki. And I repeat slowly... They were both using something far stonger and superior to devil-fruit powers. You of all people that is into power level thing should've deduced this by now instead of arguing without much context.

Second, and funny enough, the narrator of their fight said the fight kept swinging in favour from one side to the other with no clear winners. The joke here is that after three days of intense fight, the WSM, Whitebeared, couldn't defeat Rodger. He's the one man who prime Whitebeared couldn't defeat in actual physical combat that went on for days, mind you, they were both fighting with something far superior to fruit powers. I'm really at a loss here; what more do you want from Rodger in terms of power scaling?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Even though I most certainly don't buy that Whitebeard was stronger and think he was equal to Roger... I also can't agree that WB earthquake power + advanced haki isn't a far greater threat than his fruit power alone which Admirals (mind you it took all three of them) have shown the ability to defend themselves from.