One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

He exists for Luffy to surpass. And surpass here doesn't mean "beat", since Luffy worships him. Unless something hidden in his life comes up, Shanks will not be an enemy, a stepping stone. He'll be like Whitebeard to Luffy's Roger, someone who shares a drink with him as Luffy goes off on his journey to One Piece.

Luffy actually does want to beat Shanks as well. He legit said he wanted to take all 4 Yonkou down when he and Law first joined in their alliance. He just wants to save him for last.

So yeah, Shanks is basically Luffy's end goal before he becomes Pirate King.

 

[thedude]

Luffy actually does want to beat Shanks as well. He legit said he wanted to take all 4 Yonkou down when he and Law first joined in their alliance. He just wants to save him for last.

So yeah, Shanks is basically Luffy's end goal before he becomes Pirate King.

I still don't think he actually wants to beat him the way he wants to beat the others. And I can't see an arc where Luffy has to save an island from Shanks awful rule (which tends to be how these arcs go). So "beat" him may be a friendly fight to test himself, but I don't see a Luffy vs Shanks fight the way he fought any other fight. Like both of them bloodied and punched full of holes, etc.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 14, 2020 ---

Yonko literally just means four emperor, never say anything about being strongest
Emperor coz they have large territories

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 14, 2020 ---

Why would shanks bring sword with him if he doesn't fight with it? Your argument does not make sense

He fights a variety of ways. WB carried a Nagatina with him, is he described as a Nagatina fighter? Big Mom hasn't once been described as a swordswoman, and she has one.

I'm sure Shanks fights with a combination of swords and hand to hand using his haki. He also doesn't go around the world trying to make everyone acknowledge him as the best swordsman. Because he spent his time becoming a Yonko.

 

[nik87]

Zoro doesn't have to beat Shanks, nor will he beat Shanks. You are taking certain things (not even in the manga), and stretching them beyond their breaking point to fit your internal Zoro love.

Let's forget my Zoro love for a second. Shanks is a powerful swordsman. Why wouldn't Zoro take a shot at him? What stops him from defeating him?

Shanks doesn't have the title of WSS. He is however a stronger pirate, one feared by everyone. You make the mistake thinking that everyone with a sword is a swordsmen exclusively, or someone who has dedicated their life to the sword the way Zoro and Mihawk do.

A stronger pirate? All that being a pirate includes, such as crew, allies, etc? Sure. As an individual? Not. He isnt feared by anyone, you just got fooled by Oda...
Whitebeard and all that he brought into Marineford with him was deserving fear a lot more than 10 members of RHP and still, nobody cared. If you think Shanks and his several crew members are more fearful than entire might of WB pirates and his allies, I cant help you...
No, I dont think that. I think that other abilities didnt stop any swordsman from being a swordsman and Oda didnt exclude any ability in a fight.

(and also note that there is no indication that Mihawk was even stronger when the two dueled, all indications are that as swordsmen, they were equals, and haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm. This is all canon. It's not in a vivre card, it's not in a book that no ones read. It's in the actual manga!)

I'll tell you also what's canon from the actual manga: One-armed has-been.

I think you have to understand something. I'll try to help. THE MANGA ISN'T ZORO'S STORY. Shanks doesn't exist for Zoro to surpass. He exists for Luffy to surpass. And surpass here doesn't mean "beat", since Luffy worships him. Unless something hidden in his life comes up, Shanks will not be an enemy, a stepping stone. He'll be like Whitebeard to Luffy's Roger, someone who shares a drink with him as Luffy goes off on his journey to One Piece.

Yeah, it isnt Zoro's story despite being also his story since chapter 2... Luffy fans seem to have a problem sharing the cake. "Mine, mine, mine..."
Sure, he doesnt exist for Zoro but there are other ways of surpassing Shanks for Zoro, by defeating a man above him.

Mihawk's character's point for Zoro was established early in the manga. Shanks has never played a part in that. He only plays a part to you because you are obsessed with the notion that Zoro, the non-lead character, the man Oda sidelines for months, or years as he focuses on the actual protagonist, will be the strongest. This is entirely your invention. It has nothing to do with the actual manga, how it's been written, what has been set up.

It's manga fact that in Whiskey Peak they were equal despite plot babysitting Luffy and it's also fact that Zoro kept getting upgrades after WP while Luffy got nothing. It is manga fact that one was busy fighting animals for 2 years during TS while the other didnt have nobody else to fight aside from Mihawk.
Oda sidelined Zoro for years to focus on actual protagonist so he can give him Zoro's role in Wano of being a muscle while Zoro is the one being involved with the actual plot more than anyone else, a role which usually belongs to Luffy.
The whole point of Mihawk's character is to stand above all other swordsmen, especially above one-armed has-been.

By EOS, Luffy will be the "strongest" character. Zoro and Sanji will be close behind him. They'll never fight to see who is strongest, so we'll only have the manga to base this off of. The manga where Luffy will continue to fight the strongest enemy while Sanji and Zoro fight their 2nd and 3rd in command. And that's fine. For normal people, it really is.

I hope they do end up fighting to see who the stronger one is among fighter and swordsman, as they wanted to see in Whiskey Peak. For me, it was completely fine that Luffy needed Zoro's help and help of others for actually toughest opponents pre-TS and completely fine that he didnt do nothing more than others except having the last hit. It is also ok, that he needed help of others for every opponent that came after Don Chinjao. Is it ok for you?

 

[thedude]

Lol, why bother? "Oda fooled me". He is the author of the manga! He writes and draws it! You don't!!!!! It was literally in the manga, Shanks came, people on all sides said "we don't want to fight him" and left. It wasn't in a vivre card. It wasn't in an Ace novel that Oda didn't write and that you didn't read. It was in the manga! An actual thing we can all look at!

"has been"...who 6 years later became a Yonko feared by all. It's like calling Lebron James a hasbeen when he was a high school senior, lol. Maybe Oda fooled you there?

Like why bother talking to you? You just said that Zoro got upgrades after Whiskey Peak but Luffy didn't. The same Luffy who developed Gear 2 and 3 after that. You aren't reading the actual manga. I'm done arguing with you, it's just so pointless.

 

[HereNThere]

I still don't think he actually wants to beat him the way he wants to beat the others. And I can't see an arc where Luffy has to save an island from Shanks awful rule (which tends to be how these arcs go). So "beat" him may be a friendly fight to test himself, but I don't see a Luffy vs Shanks fight the way he fought any other fight. Like both of them bloodied and punched full of holes, etc.

I think it's going to be like Zoro vs Mihawk. There is no bad blood, but they are the last step between them and their goal.

To achieve his dream, he's going to have to fight Shanks. He wants to prove to Shanks that he's at the level. And I'm sure Shanks wants him to do the same. It's going to be more of the latter half of Luffy vs Katakuri, where there was nothing but respect for the opponent.

 

[thedude]

I think it's going to be like Zoro vs Mihawk. There is no bad blood, but they are the last step between them and their goal.

To achieve his dream, he's going to have to fight Shanks. He wants to prove to Shanks that he's at the level. And I'm sure Shanks wants him to do the same. It's going to be more of the latter half of Luffy vs Katakuri, where there was nothing but respect for the opponent.

Yeah, I can see that (again though, without punching holes in each others body, lol). Like Luffy "earning" the hat. Would be a very cool moment in the manga.

 

[nik87]

Lol, why bother? "Oda fooled me". He is the author of the manga! He writes and draws it! You don't!!!!! It was literally in the manga, Shanks came, people on all sides said "we don't want to fight him" and left. It wasn't in a vivre card. It wasn't in an Ace novel that Oda didn't write and that you didn't read. It was in the manga! An actual thing we can all look at!

"has been"...who 6 years later became a Yonko feared by all. It's like calling Lebron James a hasbeen when he was a high school senior, lol. Maybe Oda fooled you there?

Like why bother talking to you? You just said that Zoro got upgrades after Whiskey Peak but Luffy didn't. The same Luffy who developed Gear 2 and 3 after that. You aren't reading the actual manga. I'm done arguing with you, it's just so pointless.

Yes, yes... 10 RHP members are more fearful than 1600+(or whatever the number) WB pirates and allies, led by a man who had power to destroy the world...
You actually believe that but you werent fooled? You know what else is in the manga? Fujitora saying that Luffy has the power to beat Yonkos/Admirals. How did that end up for you manga believer? It's Hannibal Psyche all over again...

He was called has-been when he was already Yonko lol. Did you read the manga? Do you know what a has-been means?

Yes, Zoro kept receiving upgrades and for your information, there are arcs between WP and EL... I never said Luffy didnt get anything in EL, I didnt determine the end period after WP... Alabasta, Skypiea, Thriller Bark, arcs where Zoro became stronger while Luffy got nothing new.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Just a question that crossed my mind now. Shanks bounty is 4 billion. What if Mihawk bounty is just 1.5 or 2 billion, what you will think about this? Mihawk is weaker than Shanks or bounty’s don’t represent a person’s strength?

 

[nik87]

Just a question that crossed my mind now. Shanks bounty is 4 billion. What if Mihawk bounty is just 1.5 or 2 billion, what you will think about this? Mihawk is weaker than Shanks or bounty’s don’t represent a person’s strength?

I do believe that they represent the strength of established characters who have static bounties but Shichibukai is a category that was always an exception.
Their bounties were frozen so not sure if that would impact their new bounty or not. Also, depends whether their bounties will raise again or not.
Also, depends on how much Oda values a single man without attachment to anything else. I expect around 3bil for Mihawk.

 

[thedude]

Just a question that crossed my mind now. Shanks bounty is 4 billion. What if Mihawk bounty is just 1.5 or 2 billion, what you will think about this? Mihawk is weaker than Shanks or bounty’s don’t represent a person’s strength?

Bounty's don't compare strength. They get frozen when a pirate becomes a Warlord, so Mihawk's bounty will not reflect his strength at all.

Unless you mean his bounty after he gets away from the marines? in that case, i think it does say something about his strength. There is a reason the Yonko's have the highest individual bounty's.

On another note, since we are ranking characters, here is apparently how we should rank sources to rank the characters:

1. Japanese novels not written by Oda
2. Vivre Cards
3. Youtube interpretations of a chapter
4. Our indivdual dreams
.
.
.
100. The actual manga. But note that it may trick you, so please go back to the first few and use those instead.

 

[HereNThere]

Just a question that crossed my mind now. Shanks bounty is 4 billion. What if Mihawk bounty is just 1.5 or 2 billion, what you will think about this? Mihawk is weaker than Shanks or bounty’s don’t represent a person’s strength?

Bounties don't represent strength.

That being said, I imagine the differences between their Bounties will be similar to Kaido and Big Mom's. A few hundred million separatation, but it doesn't mean much.

This is one circumstance where his title will actually come into play and he'll get a bounty that reflects it. Because, otherwise, depending on his original bounty, the increase he gets wouldn't be too large. He's basically kept to himself for the most part and, as we saw with Jinbe, the increase in former Shichibukai Bounties aren't guaranteed to be super high.

 

[afromarco005]

EoS zoro > mihawk > pretimeskip zoro > gold roger

Ok dude I'll see myself out have a nice day.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah, I can see that (again though, without punching holes in each others body, lol). Like Luffy "earning" the hat. Would be a very cool moment in the manga.

A symbolic Shanks vs Luffy at the end of the manga would be perfect for me.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So what you all expect on how strong Kaido's son to be? Will he be stronger than Calamities or equal or under them at best being YC4 lvl?

Depending on age.... as strong as Momo or stronger than King. Nothing in the middle.

I doubt King is as strong as Katakuri, but we will have to see. The son could be nearly as strong as Katakuri I'd hope

 

[thedude]

Ok dude I'll see myself out have a nice day.

Gol D. Roger would get crushed by a Pacifista, why don't you agree with this!!!!

 

[thedude]

Depending on age.... as strong as Momo or stronger than King. Nothing in the middle.

I doubt King is as strong as Katakuri, but we will have to see. The son could be nearly as strong as Katakuri I'd hope

Yeah, I think Katakuri is the strongest YC not in Shanks crew, and he probably would be right up there with those guys (Shanks has such a small crew, so I figure they are all monsters).

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Just a question that crossed my mind now. Shanks bounty is 4 billion. What if Mihawk bounty is just 1.5 or 2 billion, what you will think about this? Mihawk is weaker than Shanks or bounty’s don’t represent a person’s strength?

Mihawk is still stronger. Shanks has a whole territory and strong crew so obviously he had high bounty

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 14, 2020 ---

Gol D. Roger would get crushed by a Pacifista, why don't you agree with this!!!!

What a bad interpretation

 

[thedude]

Mihawk is still stronger. Shanks has a whole territory and strong crew so obviously he had high bounty

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 14, 2020 ---

What a bad interpretation

If you are saying that pre-timeskip Zoro is greater than Gol D Roger, and pre-timeskip Zoro got smashed by Pascifistas, then how is it a bad interpretation to say that Roger, in your mind, would also get smashed by one?

Would Roger get beaten by Kuma as well? How about Kizaru, would he make a joke out of him? Exactly in what way do you mean that pretimeskip Zoro > Roger?

 

[M3J]

Let's forget my Zoro love for a second. Shanks is a powerful swordsman. Why wouldn't Zoro take a shot at him? What stops him from defeating him?

Because Shanks doesn't have the title of World's Greatest Sworsdman and isn't going to stand in Zoro's way of the title or will try to stop or kill Luffy.

 

[nik87]

Because Shanks doesn't have the title of World's Greatest Sworsdman and isn't going to stand in Zoro's way of the title or will try to stop or kill Luffy.

A friendly match to see who's stronger then?