One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Brandish μ]

It would be nice if anyone could point a finger and say what he is able to do with Enma that he wasnt able to do before it.

Zoro said it himself? It's very clear in the chapter he first tried Enma.

 

[nik87]

Zoro said it himself? It's very clear in the chapter he first tried Enma.

He said it and he ends up doing the same things that he was doing before Enma, did he actually become stronger just because he said so?

 

[King Moe]

Pretty it's confirmed Zoro doesn't have anything to show if he got Enma to help him train and he admit it through his words. So idea of him having another power doesn't make sense as Oda would have showcase his full power in his past 4 fights instead him being hype tool around. We saw his limit with Pica completely, so idea he had something more before Enma is debunked and something 'certain' Zoro-Fans have hard time admitting. Got stop with idea of Zoro having one over Luffy as last time I check, the series wasn't about him, but the MC being Monkey D. Luffy.

 

[McNuss]

Hyori is more than questionable when it comes to accurately assuming the power level of a Yonko.

Her father, the legendary Oden cut Kaido with it 20 years ago.

Chances are Zoro can't cut Kaido despite Enma, and chances are that Zoro can cut Kaido even with Shusui. It can be anything. Zoro is not going to beat Kaido either way.

It's really not that relevant. It's setup for the black blade, but I don't really think it is a power-up because it is of the same quality as Shusui, which it replaced.

Had it replaced the Sandai Kitetsu it would no doubt be a power-up.

It is very likely that Zoro will master the black blade soon, and this then will be another definite power-up.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Hyori is more than questionable when it comes to accurately assuming the power level of a Yonko.

Her father, the legendary Oden cut Kaido with it 20 years ago.

Chances are Zoro can't cut Kaido despite Enma, and chances are that Zoro can cut Kaido even with Shusui. It can be anything. Zoro is not going to beat Kaido either way.

It's really not that relevant. It's setup for the black blade, but I don't really think it is a power-up because it is of the same quality as Shusui, which it replaced.

Had it replaced the Sandai Kitetsu it would no doubt be a power-up.

It is very likely that Zoro will master the black blade soon, and this then will be another definite power-up.

I honestly believe he'll very likely master it and that will re-earn him Shusui and he will wield both going forward.

 

[nik87]

Had it replaced the Sandai Kitetsu it would no doubt be a power-up.

What's the difference between Wado Ichimonji and Sandai Kitetsu? There are 2 ranks difference between them.

Zoro is not going to beat Kaido either way.

Is Luffy going to beat 2 Emperors in one arc? Beating one is a hell of a stretch.

 

[Brandish μ]

He said it and he ends up doing the same things that he was doing before Enma, did he actually become stronger just because he said so?

As it is now, we have no reason to doubt Zoro.

He hasn't had the chance to confirm or deny the improvements, to be fair. If we see him fight and Enma makes no difference, then I'd agree with you.

For now, it is heavily implied Zoro's haki will improve in order to tame Enma. If that's the case, logically Zoro has improved, and what he said makes sense. Since this is what the story and Zoro are telling me I'll believe it until told or shown otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2020, Original Post Date: May 16, 2020 ---

So idea of him having another power doesn't make sense as Oda would have showcase his full power in his past 4 fights instead him being hype tool around.

Zoro has not been put to full power yet. Luffy is the only character in the SH who we can claim have gone all out in Wano.

We saw his limit with Pica completely

Zoro defeated Pica without going all-out, so no.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

What's the difference between Wado Ichimonji and Sandai Kitetsu? There are 2 ranks difference between them.

Is Luffy going to beat 2 Emperors in one arc? Beating one is a hell of a stretch.

If Luffy beats one and the other Supernovas beat the other?

 

[Brandish μ]

It's really not that relevant. It's setup for the black blade, but I don't really think it is a power-up because it is of the same quality as Shusui, which it replaced.

I agree with that, however the power up comes from Zoro himself, improving his haki. And if Enma is more suitable for Zoro, I suppose it's a better weapon of choice, without being so much a 'power-up'.

 

[nik87]

As it is now, we have no reason to doubt Zoro.
He hasn't had the chance to confirm or deny the improvements, to be fair. If we see him fight and Enma makes no difference, then I'd agree with you.

For now, it is heavily implied Zoro's haki will improve in order to tame Enma. If that's the case, logically Zoro has improved, and what he said makes sense. Since this is what the story and Zoro are telling me I'll believe it until told or shown otherwise.

I am not doubting it but I dont think it is power-up the way people expect it.
Control of the Haki is not a power-up unless it gives birth to something. Once he pulls off a black blade then we can say, Enma is partially responsible for it but until then, I dont think anything will be different about Zoro, literally nothing different.

Do you think Enma would have drained Zoro's haki the first time he used it IF he knew what it does?

If Luffy beats one and the other Supernovas beat the other?

Supernovas are side characters, they are a muscle to help in the fight. Zoro has far more build-up with Kaido than Kidd and Law together.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Zoro is very likely to hurt Kaido this arc.

It's all set up now. There have been so many parallels between Zoro and Oden already. Same attack poses. Same wild nature.

Same sword. Hinting at black blades (surpassing Oden).

I mean, Oda is basically saying: "oh yeah, Zoro will make use of that new sword and prove he is worthy of wielding it..."

While I do believe Enma is making Zoro a bit stronger, it all comes down to damage output in my opinion. By forcing Zoro to use more haki than he would normally be able to use. So all Zoro has to learn here is to precisely control the amount that Enma sucks out of him.

So it's not exactly the ability to cut per se that is being affected but rather the amount of haki that can be used in an attack.

To put it simply, Zoro could probably cut Kaido even without Enma but that would require another few weeks of training. Enma is a shortcut here.

 

[Brandish μ]

I am not doubting it but I dont think it is power-up the way people expect it.
Control of the Haki is not a power-up unless it gives birth to something. Once he pulls off a black blade then we can say, Enma is partially responsible for it but until then, I dont think anything will be different about Zoro, literally nothing different.

Do you think Enma would have drained Zoro's haki the first time he used it IF he knew what it does?

Yea I get that, it's not something that auto-boosts Zoro or gives him access to more/better sword attacks. It demands more of Zoro and therefore Zoro has to be stronger for it, is the way I see it. So, that is the sense that I see it being a power up. It's not like RS which grants Sanji a boost in stats for donning it. It's more like Luffy training with Hyogoro. Luffy will certainly be a better fighter for the training.

I think it's reasonable to assume he is panting to control it the first time, even if he knows it'll try sapping his life force.

Enma does have it's unique offensive properties too, by the looks, so I guess it's a wait and see.

 

[Fox666]

Cracker and Katakuri are both had stronger CoA than Luffy.

But the only logical way to argue that Zoro is currently more efficient is that he faced the same opponents as Luffy,

Luffy could easily smash the biscuit soldiers, so I think Luffy's Haki was stronger in Gear 4. It was Cracker's ability that was troublesome.

I think it is very likely that Doflamingo has stronger Haki and Cracker's Haki was just supposed to be very good because it was reinforcing a rock hard substance.

Doflamingo could withstand a few hits from Gear 4, Cracker couldn't. Also didn't Luffy blocked some attacks from the biscuit soldier in his base form? He couldn't really block Doflamingo attacks before he used Gear 4.

I doubt that the clones can be covered with Haki.

Bullets and arrows can be reinforced with Haki because they are in contact with the user before being fired.

But Haki can't be directed freely through space and it cannot teleport to another spot. Only the armor that Cracker wears can be infused via Haki.

All of the soldier should have Haki

I mean, this is somehow possible:

 

[nik87]

It's more like Luffy training with Hyogoro. Luffy will certainly be a better fighter for the training.

I disagree here. Luffy can clearly do something that he wasnt able to before. What is Zoro able to do with Enma that he couldnt do before it?

I think it's reasonable to assume he is panting to control it the first time, even if he knows it'll try sapping his life force.

I disagree here too. On the first usage he pulled all the Haki back in. If he knew what it does, it would have never drained him.

While I do believe Enma is making Zoro a bit stronger, it all comes down to damage output in my opinion. By forcing Zoro to use more haki than he would normally be able to use. So all Zoro has to learn here is to precisely control the amount that Enma sucks out of him.

The whole point of using Enma is to stop it from using your Haki. If you cant prevent it, it is bad since you are literally wasting haki.
Zoro can release as much Haki as he wants, enough to bust a mountain and that is before Enma.

 

[M3J]

Pretty it's confirmed Zoro doesn't have anything to show if he got Enma to help him train and he admit it through his words. So idea of him having another power doesn't make sense as Oda would have showcase his full power in his past 4 fights instead him being hype tool around. We saw his limit with Pica completely, so idea he had something more before Enma is debunked and something 'certain' Zoro-Fans have hard time admitting. Got stop with idea of Zoro having one over Luffy as last time I check, the series wasn't about him, but the MC being Monkey D. Luffy.

The hell makes you think we saw his limit against Pica when fight mostly consisted of Pica going from rock to rock and barely challenging Zoro? The only two challenges Zoro had was Pica's ability to go from rock to rock and running away to attack the others that forced Zoro to use his ranged attack. THen he was effortlessly cutting rocks into pieces.

 

[Brandish μ]

I disagree here. Luffy can clearly do something that he wasnt able to before. What is Zoro able to do with Enma that he couldnt do before it?

Zoro will have improved his haki. We're kind of going in circles here. Do you think Zoro has improved at all, from the beginning of the arc until now?

I disagree here too. On the first usage he pulled all the Haki back in. If he knew what it does, it would have never drained him.

It still would've made him pant some. He wouldn't be able to passively wield it. The fact that it took a lot of effort supports that, in my view.

 

[nik87]

Zoro will have improved his haki. We're kind of going in circles here. Do you think Zoro has improved at all, from the beginning of the arc until now?

Better control of Haki doesnt necessarily mean stronger haki or more haki. (see my theory of black blade)
I think Zoro didnt improve from Fishman Island until now, literally nothing changed about him and he never had a challenge to push him to improve.

It still would've made him pant some. He wouldn't be able to passively wield it. The fact that it took a lot of effort supports that, in my view.

He was panting because it was already too late, he already wasted enough haki to cut off the coast, he cant get that back but the fact that he pulled back in the remaining haki that was still surrounding Enma shows control good enough to prevent sapping away.

 

[Brandish μ]

He was panting because it was already too late, he already wasted enough haki to cut off the coast, he cant get that back but the fact that he pulled back in the remaining haki that was still surrounding Enma shows control good enough to prevent sapping away.

Hmm, well I guess we can agree to disagree there.

Better control of Haki doesnt necessarily mean stronger haki or more haki. (see my theory of black blade)
I think Zoro didnt improve from Fishman Island until now, literally nothing changed about him and he never had a challenge to push him to improve.

If he's training his haki, there's a chance it gets stronger too, I would imagine. Improving efficiency is a plus as well.

I can agree, up to gaining Enma. He'll be improving in any big fight. He needs more experience, as per the commentary about making a blade black and what Rayleigh said to Luffy, to grow.

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

Supernovas are side characters, they are a muscle to help in the fight. Zoro has far more build-up with Kaido than Kidd and Law together.

Luffy is gonna beat Kaido, I meant the Supernovas vs. Big Mom

 

[Deleted member 169696]

The whole point of using Enma is to stop it from using your Haki. If you cant prevent it, it is bad since you are literally wasting haki.
Zoro can release as much Haki as he wants, enough to bust a mountain and that is before Enma.

And the point of introducing Enma as one of the only two blades that cut Kaido is?

The point of Enma having these properties is?

Shusui Zoro's haki output: 1-100
Enma Zoro's haki output: 1-120

This is not to say Zoro couldn't achieve these numbers without Enma. But as I said it's a shortcut for Zoro. Which I don't think is a bad thing.

All of the stronger SHs got their respective power-ups in Wano.