Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Spoiler: New SN Ranking*

If Apoo turns out to be the threat he is made out to be this chapter and not one-shot by Kidd*

Luffy
Law=Kidd
Apoo = X Drake = Urouge
Zoro
Bege = Hawkins
Killer
Bonney (More feats needed before placing apprpriately)

 

[Shasha23]

Spoiler: New SN Ranking*

Luffy
Kid = Drake
Urouge = Law =Zoro
Apoo
Bege = Hawkins = Killer
Bonney (More feats needed before placing appropriately)

Fixed it for you

 

[Pirate Queen]

Fixed it for you

You don't have to "fix" my post, just make your own lol

 

[Mwhitt]

i just hate how oda makes luffy (SPOILER ALERT) job hard to apoo here even tho luffy is supposed to be YC1. Apoo is not fodder but luffy should have performed better against his attacks (and so does zoro). There seemed to be a trend for supernova to perform much better against SHP though lol

Urouge defeated a yonko commander, Drake is one step from literally being a yonko commander and him showing no interest in the position means he could essentially possess power on par with a commander but chooses not to be one for his own indivudual reasons, Kidd injured one and escaped Big Moms island. Do you believe all of them have to in some form of fashion literally be pitted vs a yonko commander to infer they should be strong enough to damage one when multiple have been stated to have the feat? Spoiler below

Spoiler

Luffy made his own job hard by picking a fight with an army. Apoo jumping out and attacking is his consequence for his recklessness. Apoo is stated by Killer to be very strong and Kidd agrees as he saw fit to allow the summon of Apoo and Hawkins to give them all a chance to beat a yonko.

This isn't a fight thats one on one its Luffy going crazy, Apoo jumping out and successfully damaging Luffy. With all that taken into account you find it weird that Apoo has the power to cause Luffy harm ( has nothing to do with beating Luffy and all to do with Apoo being at least decently strong). As we saw Luffy is fine but sees along with Zoro that Kaido has adept fighters as he has multiple peers of his that aren't fodder.

The ground work is laid out for Apoo to be strong as is for other supernova to be strong. Being surprised means you worked out some form of powe scaling in your mind thats your opinion which is fine. But that doesn't mean the manga is inconsistent when its been saying this group we made that Luffy is apart of are pretty strong.

 

[nik87]

Nothing changed about the Supernova rankings, people who cant power scale jumped on Apoo's bandwagon...
1. Zoro
2. Law
3. Luffy
4. Kidd
5. Drake
6. Urogue
7. Apoo
8. Bege
9. Killer
10. Hawkins
11. Bonney

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Urouge defeated a yonko commander, Drake is one step from literally being a yonko commander and him showing no interest in the position means he could essentially possess power on par with a commander but chooses not to be one for his own indivudual reasons, Kidd injured one and escaped Big Moms island. Do you believe all of them have to in some form of fashion literally be pitted vs a yonko commander to infer they should be strong enough to damage one when multiple have been stated to have the feat? Spoiler below

Spoiler

Luffy made his own job hard by picking a fight with an army. Apoo jumping out and attacking is his consequence for his recklessness. Apoo is stated by Killer to be very strong and Kidd agrees as he saw fit to allow the summon of Apoo and Hawkins to give them all a chance to beat a yonko.

This isn't a fight thats one on one its Luffy going crazy, Apoo jumping out and successfully damaging Luffy. With all that taken into account you find it weird that Apoo has the power to cause Luffy harm ( has nothing to do with beating Luffy and all to do with Apoo being at least decently strong). As we saw Luffy is fine but sees along with Zoro that Kaido has adept fighters as he has multiple peers of his that aren't fodder.

The ground work is laid out for Apoo to be strong as is for other supernova to be strong. Being surprised means you worked out some form of powe scaling in your mind thats your opinion which is fine. But that doesn't mean the manga is inconsistent when its been saying this group we made that Luffy is apart of are pretty strong.

If Apoo is YC tier, he should already be one.
There is even power hierarchy on YC. YC1 is significantly stronger than YC3 or YC4. Let's just be honest here that oda is not perfect on his power scaling in the series. Oda likes to make luffy job a little to hype an enemy

 

[SnuggleCupcake]

If Apoo is YC tier, he should already be one.
There is even power hierarchy on YC. YC1 is significantly stronger than YC3 or YC4. Let's just be honest here that oda is not perfect on his power scaling in the series. Oda likes to make luffy job a little to hype an enemy

It's cause a hero that isn't always growing and learning is usually a boring ultimate hero

 

[King Moe]

i just hate how oda makes luffy (SPOILER ALERT) job hard to apoo here even tho luffy is supposed to be YC1. Apoo is not fodder but luffy should have performed better against his attacks (and so does zoro). There seemed to be a trend for supernova to perform much better against SHP though lol


how does that relate to what I said? The list is invalid coz sanji is never a supernova. He should not be in the list. Try to not make this to zoro hate topics as you often do.

Spoiler: Spoiler

You said that remark about Apoo in the past. Don't backtrack what you said now you got no defense to support Zoro on this matter after what chapter shows.

Sanji is unofficial Supernova as he respected by some he know and faced better than Zoro looking at both sides. I am aware of that, but don't get tense over position said about Zoro after latest chapter.

 

[Mwhitt]

If Apoo is YC tier, he should already be one.
There is even power hierarchy on YC. YC1 is significantly stronger than YC3 or YC4. Let's just be honest here that oda is not perfect on his power scaling in the series. Oda likes to make luffy job a little to hype an enemy

What is Apoo's rank exactly? What is his goal? Drake has shown no interest in being a yonko commander has Apoo shown interest in being anything higher than what he is? Did I say Apoo was yonko commander tier or simply that he "should" be strong as him being so is inferred since Saboady.

Relax man Apoo's official rank in Beast Pirates hasn't even been revealed yet you are here jumping to conclusions, AGAIN based off your own personal opinion. That doesn't work here Drake has reservations about becoming one and he is the closest to it. You can't make that statement knowing nothing of Apoo.

While I do agree yonko commander "1" should be stronger than yonko commander "3" we haven't seen anything between the commanders themselves to without a doubt prove it. We have only seen Jack bend knee to both King and Queen while they bicker amongst themselves not fearing the other. Katakuri should be stronger than Cracker I agree but I cannot claim it as fact. Shanks we haven't gotten to yet and Whitebeard commanders are all said to be on a similar level, Marco, Jozu and Vista should be clear cut above the rest Marco especially as he was the understood leader after Whitebeard was but was that due to solely strength? Is being the strongest the best trait to be captain? Or does other things come into play such as intelligence, crew seniority, skill set, etc, etc, etc. Could go on and on.

This is my point you cannot formulate an opinion based on your own head cannon, treat your opinion as fact then get proven wrong and use your said head cannon to critique the manga just because you were wrong. That just doesn't work

 

[King Moe]

Spoiler: New SN Ranking*

If Apoo turns out to be the threat he is made out to be this chapter and not one-shot by Kidd*

Luffy
Law=Kidd
Apoo = X Drake = Urouge
Zoro
Bege = Hawkins
Killer
Bonney (More feats needed before placing apprpriately)

Spoiler: Spoiler

I agree with this list, but put Hawkins above Zoro too. He damage him easily from there fight and only lose to Law who is much stronger than Zoro, so doesn't make sense why he under both when should be Law and few others.

 

[hokageji]

Brook is 80 and has been steadily getting stronger,

he's getting stronger without any muscles...... damn, that didnt make a skull joke :/

Spoiler: Spoiler

I agree with this list, but put Hawkins above Zoro too. He damage him easily from there fight and only lose to Law who is much stronger than Zoro, so doesn't make sense why he under both when should be Law and few others.

what are you hiding your comments in spoiler tag now?

@Lexusflame
I agree with your list except i would still put Kidd at the same level as Luffy... If not, still above Law...


I think Bege would be low as well, his DF is great for protecting others but without insane armament it can be a huge weakness..

 

[King Moe]

he's getting stronger without any muscles...... damn, that didnt make a skull joke :/





what are you hiding your comments in spoiler tag now?

@Lexusflame
I agree with your list except i would still put Kidd at the same level as Luffy... If not, still above Law...


I think Bege would be low as well, his DF is great for protecting others but without insane armament it can be a huge weakness..

Gold said we need put our posts in spoiler until 24 hours when chapter came out. Didn't you see message above?

Pretty sure Luffy, Kidd, and Law are equals with each other. So best to put them together for sure.

 

[Fox666]

Katakuri should be stronger than Cracker I agree but I cannot claim it as fact.

It was stated that Katakuri was the strongest of the Sweet Commanders.

Whitebeard commanders are all said to be on a similar level, Marco, Jozu and Vista should be clear cut above the rest Marco especially as he was the understood leader after Whitebeard was but was that due to solely strength?

When the Gorosei were discussing the threat of Blackbeard, they mentioned Marco as one of the only people who could stop him in the New World, so he seems to be special among the Whitebeard division commanders.

 

[M3J]

Thing is, MJ3 also missed the point and thought Sanji only got knocked out briefly when he tried to save Nami, but he was actually knocked out for a large portion of the arc.

Wether attacks are named or not doesn't matter, but it is a fact that Sanji was knocked out for a much longer time than either Zoro or Robin for that matter, and that was what the initial dispute was about.

But let really stop with this accusations of "lies", "delusion", "unable to properly read", "making up facts"

I honestly start to think that a short while ago, everyone just channeled their bad vibes at HP, and now that he is gone those go wild and at everyone.

Might also be due to the quarantines but the mood here has gotten a lot worse and the tone is full of passive aggression.

This is such a great community, let's not damage it.

I did not miss the point. Was he really knocked out for a large portion of the arc though? And how much time passed between him being attacked unexpectedly and him and Usopp saving Nami? I just realized that it doesn't matter what a character was doing for majority of the arc, in most cases, as much as time passed inside the manga matters.

Spoiler

Apoo just temporarily knocked out luffy in two hits
Katakuri could not manage to do that even after several hours
Wano is a trainwreck of power level consistency

Spoiler

It's really not a trainwreck. From what I noticed (or didn't notice), Apoo didn't use a blunt attack, he used some kind of a weird attack that's probably related to his devil fruit to hurt Zoro and Luffy. Neither Straw Hat looked bad from this, especially when you consider they were still fighting at the end. Only thing this scene did was show that Apoo is more dangerous than we thought.

 

[thedude]

Spoiler

i just hate how oda makes luffy (SPOILER ALERT) job hard to apoo here even tho luffy is supposed to be YC1. Apoo is not fodder but luffy should have performed better against his attacks (and so does zoro). There seemed to be a trend for supernova to perform much better against SHP though lol


how does that relate to what I said? The list is invalid coz sanji is never a supernova. He should not be in the list. Try to not make this to zoro hate topics as you often do.

I don't think it makes Luffy look that bad. Magellan made short work out of not just Blackbeard, but his entire crew. If you don't know someones power, it can overwhelm you. That didn't make BB any weaker, and this doesn't make Luffy weaker either.

 

[afromarco005]

Thiss is why i struggle to even bother debating certain posters. "they aren't near equal because Viki the Viking and cutting and Oda let Zoro take Luffy's pain and therefore Sanji couldn't have..."

You forgot the part where zoro knocks out Sanji in one hit with the hilt of his sword?

If sanji took this much pain and lost this much blood in his state he would be dead, thats common sense.


My ranking of the straw hats:

1. Luffy : his advanced Color of observation, armament and soon conquerors plus his gears makes him the no1 in the crew slightly stronger than Jimbe. His potential awakening is another card up his sleeve.
2. Jimbe: He is a beast no one under him has tangoed with an admiral and a yonko quite like him. These feats are why I put him as the 2nd strongest sh (No1 underwater).
3. Zoro: Cut mountain sized ennemies, clashed with an admiral, survived kuma's pain at Tbark and now has a new sword to play with. The reason he is this high is that he never struggled in the new world and never felt the need to go all out we still need to see his full power post timeskip. He will be 2nd strongest after Wano slightly stronger than Jimbe.
4. Sanji RS: Raid suit gave Sanji a well needed boost to his defense and other stats. He is strong enough now to fight tobiroppo without taking too much damage he will be 4th strongest after wano and 3rd strongest EOS.
5. Franky: has incredible offense in the form of lasers comparable to an admiral attack. Said lasers could destroy a steel door that even sanji couldn't. I expect him to grow even stronger in the future once he meets vegapunk. His defense is top notch too if he learns haki he will become a true tank.
6. Brook : he has strange soul powers that freezes his opponents and has probably the fastest movement speed out of all the strawhats. he is immortal.
7. Robin: Beast df, Kage bushin, potential awakening potential haki would make her even more dangerous.
8. Nami: has part of a yonko soul as a weapon enough said.
9. Usopp: one of the few straw hats with haki he will be the best sniper in the world.
10. Chopper: Is a disappointment really he has become really pathetic since the timeskip. I would even say that he regressed compared to pre skip. This could be explained by the fact that he is used more as a mascott than a real character nowadays.

 

[albertwv]

Spoiler: Spoiler Alert

Apoo is shown to be strong and made Luffy and Zolo look weak in this new chapter. BUT let's be honest, do you really think Apoo can defeat Luffy? Luffy who defeated Katakuri and Cracker and Doffy. Apoo doesn't seem like the type to be able to defeat any of those. They only took damage because they had no idea how to counter his DF attacks. Remember Kizaru got cut up and blown by Apoo. Does that mean Apoo > Kizaru? Kizaru just got surprised just like Luffy and Zolo. So please don't think Apoo can defeat Luffy or Zolo (looking at you Moe).

Also, Kid is not equal to Luffy. Not until we have confirmation that Kid defeated a Yonko Commander as strong as Katakuri. He was said to only damage one of Big Mom's YC. My theory about this ties with Urouge defeating Snack. I think Kid and Urouge joined hands to take down Snack, with Urouge finishing him off.
This is because at Fishman Island, Tamago explains to BM that Kid destroyed 2 of their ships not too long ago during FI Arc. Then a couple days later (after Dressrosa) we see Urouge resting in the clouds looking at Kaido fall down. Urouge had fresh wounds from his fight with Snack. And Brulee explains that not too long ago there were 4 instead of 3 Sweet Commanders. Snack also seems to have a grudge on the Worst Generation because Urouge defeated him but maybe also on Kid. That is my theory on how Urouge defeated Snack with the help of Kid.

But yeah Kid is still not Luffy's level, you only think that because he is seem to be portrayed as Luffy's rival but honestly G4 Luffy takes the win anytime.

 

[Brandish μ]

Spoiler

Apoo cannot defeat Zoro or Luffy. But he's strong enough to put Luffy and Zoro on the back-foot if he gets them unawares.

I'm sure we'll see more from Apoo, but for now he has some questions against him as a fighter:
> it looked like he needed time to get his fight music reads, several seconds, which might be too much in a real fight
> he could not react to Kidd
> haki capabilities? defensive capabilities?

 

[King Moe]

You forgot the part where zoro knocks out Sanji in one hit with the hilt of his sword?

If sanji took this much pain and lost this much blood in his state he would be dead, thats common sense.


My ranking of the straw hats:

1. Luffy : his advanced Color of observation, armament and soon conquerors plus his gears makes him the no1 in the crew slightly stronger than Jimbe. His potential awakening is another card up his sleeve.
2. Jimbe: He is a beast no one under him has tangoed with an admiral and a yonko quite like him. These feats are why I put him as the 2nd strongest sh (No1 underwater).
3. Zoro: Cut mountain sized ennemies, clashed with an admiral, survived kuma's pain at Tbark and now has a new sword to play with. The reason he is this high is that he never struggled in the new world and never felt the need to go all out we still need to see his full power post timeskip. He will be 2nd strongest after Wano slightly stronger than Jimbe.
4. Sanji RS: Raid suit gave Sanji a well needed boost to his defense and other stats. He is strong enough now to fight tobiroppo without taking too much damage he will be 4th strongest after wano and 3rd strongest EOS.
5. Franky: has incredible offense in the form of lasers comparable to an admiral attack. Said lasers could destroy a steel door that even sanji couldn't. I expect him to grow even stronger in the future once he meets vegapunk. His defense is top notch too if he learns haki he will become a true tank.
6. Brook : he has strange soul powers that freezes his opponents and has probably the fastest movement speed out of all the strawhats. he is immortal.
7. Robin: Beast df, Kage bushin, potential awakening potential haki would make her even more dangerous.
8. Nami: has part of a yonko soul as a weapon enough said.
9. Usopp: one of the few straw hats with haki he will be the best sniper in the world.
10. Chopper: Is a disappointment really he has become really pathetic since the timeskip. I would even say that he regressed compared to pre skip. This could be explained by the fact that he is used more as a mascott than a real character nowadays.

Actually no. Sanji tank Drake's attack better than Zoro with Apoo and Sanji didn't need RS. Heck He tank ship destroying attacks by Kanjiro and protected Nami without injury. Zoro been hype tool to now 5 fights while Sanji beaten his enemies and match greatly to Drake.

Right now Sanji is 2nd/3rd Strongest and Zoro is like 4th/5th. Do agree Jimbei is above them, but after Wano Sanji truly surpass him while Zoro will at EOS though.

Stop overhyping Zoro when we saw for 3rd Supernova you guys thought wouldn't damage seriously, did like that. Zoro is not invincible. He get hurt like anyone else abd thus no reason to keep pushing him better than everyone by Headcannon. He needs training and help for upcoming fights. No shame in that.

 

[albertwv]

@Moe, Zolo defeated Hawkins, twice! He killed 2 of Hawkins' lives easily, he took down Killer and ONLY got hit after The Sword Bandit tried to slash Zolo. But then Zolo sliced him up real good. He was shown defending Luffy and Tama from Hawkins' nails attack. Yes he took damage and bled but that doesn't mean Hawkins won. Sanji has only shown putting up a fight agaisnt P1 thanks to his RS. But without RS Sanji would've taken more damage. You just decide to ignore the facts of the manga. Both Luffy and Zolo were surprised by Apoo's attacks and had no counter to that. Im sure if Zolo had seen the slash attack from Apoo he would've countered. This chapter didn't make Luffy or Zolo look weak but actually make Apoo look like a formidable opponent obviously because he is a Supernova. Stop pushing your Sanji narrative, Sanji will always be a little below Zolo just a little.