Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Any single CP9 could fight against swords, though. Oda could have made Kaku just a stronger tekkai user and fight Zoro just with it. It was an aesthetic choice to make him a swordsman. Even the first time they clashed Kaku beat Zoro with only shigan. Lucci is twice as strong as Kaku and demonstrated the highest tekkai ability among the CP9, taking Franky's Strong Hammer to the chest without moving a finger. Asura may damage Lucci, but there's no way to make the argument that Zoro could damage him without Asura (at the time) more than Lucci could kill him first.
You also have to take into account that Lucci didn't fall after receiving the first Jet Pistol either. He took several of them, a jet rifle, a jet bullet, a jet bazooka, a G3 punch and a jet gatling gun before he finally fell, despite taking the first hits without zoan nor tekkai. Zoro dealing more damage in a combo attack against a Pacifista doesn't guarantee he could take Lucci down on a single hit. Not that Lucci would just remain still either as he proved to be much faster than Kaku was, having his own kind of soru technique and all.

Take also into account just how long it took Zoro to go Asura against Kaku, like an hour into the fight, while it took Luffy less than ten minutes to be pierced by a barrage of shigans from a Lucci who casually walked through his gomu gomu no gatling avoiding the punches.

There was all that and there was also how the plot itself told us that only Luffy could take on Lucci at the time. Luffy and the crew themselves all aknowledged in that same arc how "it's Luffy who will take on Lucci because he always takes on the strongest because nobody else can" and the whole thing when Luffy was almost defeated that Lucci almost when on to kill Zoro and the rest and Luffy had to pull some Plus Ultra power to beat him. Clearly the whole point of that scene is that half-beaten Lucci was enough for the rest of the crew.

Factually wrong because tekkai wasnt enough to stop Zoro's swords. Stronger toughness than Lucci's was not enough to stop Zoro.
It is never an aesthetic choice, every single one of Zoro's opponents has a way to somehow deal with a sword instead of taking it with their bodies.
The first time they clashed is irrelevant. Luffy was one-shotted instantly as well, didnt stop him from beating Lucci next time they met.

Lucci's tekkai is irrelevant, Pacifista is incomparably tougher and couldnt stop Zoro's Asura.
Let's get it over with, stop bring up tekkai because it cannot stop Zoro. Check it up so we can move on from the tekkai argument.
Zoro didnt need Asura to keep up with Cp9's Soru speeds, Sanji didnt need it either, it was only Luffy who needed his PU to keep up with them.

Lucci cant kill Zoro "before he even uses Asura" just like he couldnt one-shot Luffy the second time he met him like he did the first time.
Strawhats at their first meeting werent even serious and were mentally in a mess since they didnt understand what is going on with Robin.
Once they found out the truth and got their minds focused on the task, they were completely different.

Why wouldnt he be able to take Lucci out in a single hit? Taking on Pacifista in a combo attack doesnt reduce the hardness of the material nor is anybody else helping him to cut it. It was all his effort to cut it, cannot be downplayed. Asura is by far overkill mode for any CP9 member, Lucci included.
He would remain still, it's shown on panel, his cockiness would mean his demise. He was stupid enough to take on G3 even tho he could have dodged it.

It took Zoro long to go into Asura because Oda gains nothing from Zoro pulling Asura in the very first panel of the fight and ending it instantly, that's not what the author benefits from. He is there to tell the story and make fights interesting, 2-chapters long instead of 1 page one-shot right away...
He can pull Asura whenever he wants.

No, plot didnt tell us that. Luffy said that if he let Lucci go he would kill his crew, Luffy at that time had 0 idea of Zoro's Asura which is by far superior to anything Luffy had at that point. Nobody acknowledged that... Usopp asked Zoro if they should go and help and Zoro responded that they should stay together to avoid separating again and clear the way for escape. We obviously disagree and I have manga proof that Zoro goes through tougher than Lucci.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Any single CP9 could fight against swords, though. Oda could have made Kaku just a stronger tekkai user and fight Zoro just with it. It was an aesthetic choice to make him a swordsman. Even the first time they clashed Kaku beat Zoro with only shigan. Lucci is twice as strong as Kaku and demonstrated the highest tekkai ability among the CP9, taking Franky's Strong Hammer to the chest without moving a finger. Asura may damage Lucci, but there's no way to make the argument that Zoro could damage him without Asura (at the time) more than Lucci could kill him first.
You also have to take into account that Lucci didn't fall after receiving the first Jet Pistol either. He took several of them, a jet rifle, a jet bullet, a jet bazooka, a G3 punch and a jet gatling gun before he finally fell, despite taking the first hits without zoan nor tekkai. Zoro dealing more damage in a combo attack against a Pacifista doesn't guarantee he could take Lucci down on a single hit. Not that Lucci would just remain still either as he proved to be much faster than Kaku was, having his own kind of soru technique and all.

Take also into account just how long it took Zoro to go Asura against Kaku, like an hour into the fight, while it took Luffy less than ten minutes to be pierced by a barrage of shigans from a Lucci who casually walked through his gomu gomu no gatling avoiding the punches.

There was all that and there was also how the plot itself told us that only Luffy could take on Lucci at the time. Luffy and the crew themselves all aknowledged in that same arc how "it's Luffy who will take on Lucci because he always takes on the strongest because nobody else can" and the whole thing when Luffy was almost defeated that Lucci almost when on to kill Zoro and the rest and Luffy had to pull some Plus Ultra power to beat him. Clearly the whole point of that scene is that half-beaten Lucci was enough for the rest of the crew.


Krieg's strength was mischief if I remember right. He tricked his way to get everything he achieved and used many tools, traps and poisons to strengthen himself. He was, for a man so mischievous, very physically strong, but as long as he kept relying on all that he doesn't look like a man who would have unlocked haki, so his progress capability probably had a set limit unless he eventually ran into a Devil Fruit.
He had bad luck running into Mihawk but I don't think his crew would have fared much better against Arlong. Arlong's crew specialized in sinking ships, no matter the number, by playing around with sea currents, and only Krieg himself, Gin and Pearl were on the level to fight against fishmen. The rest of the fleet were all fodder (at least those that we saw. Who knows if some stronger crewmate fell before they ran away from Mihawk).

More than Don Krieg himself, I think Gin is the most interesting. He was physically around as strong as Krieg and able to fight one on one against Sanji on a similar level. His tonfas were cool, too. I always wished he reappears one day. After all, he left poisoned and half dead, but he must have ran into Crocus right after entering GL. Who knows.

Everyone and their grandmothers knows Zoro didn't stand a chance against Lucci but its like I told you before...

Kaku, MR.1, Pica all argued stronger than Lucci, Crocodile, and Doflamingo by delusional swordbois all to make Zoro look stronger than he actually is.

I actually laugh every time I read the comments now. No one takes them seriously anymore.

 

[King Moe]

Multiple rivalries from the WG sounds great, honestly. Coby's rivalry with Luffy wouldn't be deadly or have enmity the way Luffy's rivalry with Lucci would, it'd just be two people who respect each other doing their duties/what they want to do. Same with Smoker, especially since both see the Straw Hats as good people. I think we'll see Coby and even Smoker get stronger and able to challenge Luffy, and I hope we do.

Plus, it'd be interesting to think about the choices Coby/Smoker would have to make if Lucci comes after, finishes off Luffy, and is about to kill him or throw him in the gulag. Would either try to save Luffy or leave him to his fate, knowing he's a pirate? Or would they try to save him?

I can see Smoker coming back to be major threat as he is like next Garp of his generation while Coby is more like next Aokiji of his. I think Hina could be next Sengoku or Tsuru depending and her close bond with Smoker. Luffy will have major rivals even when he is PK lvl as certain handful will give challenge to him just like Roger.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I can see Smoker coming back to be major threat as he is like next Garp of his generation while Coby is more like next Aokiji of his. I think Hina could be next Sengoku or Tsuru depending and her close bond with Smoker. Luffy will have major rivals even when he is PK lvl as certain handful will give challenge to him just like Roger.

What DF do you think would fit Coby best to bring in to that next level?

Or do you prefer him base?

 

[HereNThere]

I hope Koby remains fruitless. He's already made great strides without one.

Smoker is the only one who has a chance at becoming Luffy's Garp. Koby may end up being comparable to Luffy EoS, but he's too much of a fan of his to gun for him like Garp did to Roger.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I hope Koby remains fruitless. He's already made great strides without one.

Smoker is the only one who has a chance at becoming Luffy's Garp. Koby may end up being comparable to Luffy EoS, but he's too much of a fan of his to gun for him like Garp did to Roger.

Marine Admiral Shiroókami(White Wolf) vs Pirate King Monkey D. Luffy has a good ring to it

 

[Nie Li]

Marine Admiral Shiroókami(White Wolf) vs Pirate King Monkey D. Luffy has a good ring to it

That sounds badass. I'm sure Smoker will become an admiral someday. I have a hard time imagining such a codename for Koby if he ever gets to the rank, though. Pink Something?
Nothing sounds cool other than the Pink Panther joke.

 

[M3J]

Do you think Don Krieg was stronger or weaker than Arlong? Would he have done well without Mihawk crossing his path on the grand line?

If we use Luffy as a benchmark, then Krieg was definitely weaker. He didn't give Luffy as much of a challenge as Arlong did.

I can see Smoker coming back to be major threat as he is like next Garp of his generation while Coby is more like next Aokiji of his. I think Hina could be next Sengoku or Tsuru depending and her close bond with Smoker. Luffy will have major rivals even when he is PK lvl as certain handful will give challenge to him just like Roger.

I think Coby will be much kinder than Aokiji though, he won't hurt his comrades like Aokiji did to that giant Marine that helped Robin escape.

Marine Admiral Shiroókami(White Wolf) vs Pirate King Monkey D. Luffy has a good ring to it

Weeaboo

 

[HereNThere]

To follow the pattern of Admirals being named after Zodiacs, Smoker would probably be something like Shirouma or White Horse Smoker.

The only animals left for future admirals (if they aren't recycled) are Horse, Snake, Rat, Rooster, and Sheep.

Pig and Rabbit were given to two Vice Admirals who were considered for the postions before Fujitora and Ryugyoku.

I hope we get to see what they can do at some point. They have some interesting designs.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Weeaboo

"Desu desk desu?"

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2020 ---

To follow the pattern of Admirals being named after Zodiacs, Smoker would probably be something like Shirouma or White Horse Smoker.

The only animals left for future admirals (if they aren't recycled) are Horse, Snake, Rat, Rooster, and Sheep.

Pig and Rabbit were given to two Vice Admirals who were considered for the postions before Fujitora and Ryugyoku.

I hope we get to see what they can do at some point. They have some interesting designs.

Smoker's epithet is White hunter, and wolf's are damn near the best hunters. I think it would fit pretty good.

But no zodiac connection sadly

 

[goldb]

I can see Smoker coming back to be major threat as he is like next Garp of his generation while Coby is more like next Aokiji of his. I think Hina could be next Sengoku or Tsuru depending and her close bond with Smoker. Luffy will have major rivals even when he is PK lvl as certain handful will give challenge to him just like Roger.

I think that might've always been Oda's plan for Smoker (plus Tashigi), Hina and Coby. Unfortunately we've just not have many instances of them clashing with the SH crew. On top of that, so far it's exclusively only been Smoker that has confronted the whole crew.
He's taken many Ls so far, Smoker has, but his fight against Law a brilliant spectacle but the latter's ability had him at a disadvantage.

It's a shame we didn't see a fair clash between him and Luffy to compare the true distance between the two. I hope in the future after he's done with Vegapunk and the crew are travelling again, Oda does give us these clashes; something like when Garp "chased" after the crew leaving Water 7.

 

[King Moe]

What DF do you think would fit Coby best to bring in to that next level?

Or do you prefer him base?

Idk if Coby be aiming to want be DF user. Seems like he be more like Full-On Hand to Hand combat guy with high Haki levels to be qualified on Admiral.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2020 ---

That sounds badass. I'm sure Smoker will become an admiral someday. I have a hard time imagining such a codename for Koby if he ever gets to the rank, though. Pink Something?
Nothing sounds cool other than the Pink Panther joke.

From how things going, I think Smoker could be next Fleet Admiral given he can help push the good changes needed for Marines like what happen in Alabasta as he truly knows what is right and wrong even respecting there are good people even in Pirates even if he does chase after them.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2020 ---

I think that might've always been Oda's plan for Smoker (plus Tashigi), Hina and Coby. Unfortunately we've just not have many instances of them clashing with the SH crew. On top of that, so far it's exclusively only been Smoker that has confronted the whole crew.
He's taken many Ls so far, Smoker has, but his fight against Law a brilliant spectacle but the latter's ability had him at a disadvantage.

It's a shame we didn't see a fair clash between him and Luffy to compare the true distance between the two. I hope in the future after he's done with Vegapunk and the crew are travelling again, Oda does give us these clashes; something like when Garp "chased" after the crew leaving Water 7.

Ls are really not damaging. Only fights he lost were Law (Reasonable since Law with Kidd will be WB/Shiki to Luffy's Roger) and lost on purpose with Vergo to help Law and give him the win. Doflamingo did beat him too, but Smoker didn't have his weapon and was protecting his G5 crew at same time, so he was kinda nerf in that fight all around, so can't diminished him fully on that as at least he gave what he can. Garp probably have his share of loses in his journey of becoming how he is, so doubt we should say Smoker won't be like that just because one arc had him on losing end. He gotten stronger since then and will come back better than before.

I hope to see more clashes with him and development on Tashigi too as she has good potential on being strong VA in her future or maybe even the first female Admiral we see in the series xD.

I do hope to see them again, hopefully when they head to Wano to be involved in this war as having Marines there be biggest neutral factor since they be against everyone from Luffy's side and Kaido's side. Think of all the fights and battles that can take place in that crazy chaos around.

 

[Nie Li]

To follow the pattern of Admirals being named after Zodiacs, Smoker would probably be something like Shirouma or White Horse Smoker.

The only animals left for future admirals (if they aren't recycled) are Horse, Snake, Rat, Rooster, and Sheep.

Pig and Rabbit were given to two Vice Admirals who were considered for the postions before Fujitora and Ryugyoku.

I hope we get to see what they can do at some point. They have some interesting designs.

Didn't Smoker had an attack literally called White Snake? He could go with that.

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

To follow the pattern of Admirals being named after Zodiacs, Smoker would probably be something like Shirouma or White Horse Smoker.

The only animals left for future admirals (if they aren't recycled) are Horse, Snake, Rat, Rooster, and Sheep.

Pig and Rabbit were given to two Vice Admirals who were considered for the postions before Fujitora and Ryugyoku.

I hope we get to see what they can do at some point. They have some interesting designs.

Hasn't roster been already used for Aokiji?

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Didn't Smoker had an attack literally called White Snake? He could go with that.

Pretty sure about that one, and I also remember there was a requested cover once connecting smoker to snakes based on a pun:

So my bets are on shiro hebi (white snake)

 

[HereNThere]

Hasn't roster been already used for Aokiji?

Oh yeah. I wasn't even thinking about him. It's a pheasant in his case, but it still fits.

 

[goldb]

Ls are really not damaging. Only fights he lost were Law (Reasonable since Law with Kidd will be WB/Shiki to Luffy's Roger) and lost on purpose with Vergo to help Law and give him the win. Doflamingo did beat him too, but Smoker didn't have his weapon and was protecting his G5 crew at same time, so he was kinda nerf in that fight all around, so can't diminished him fully on that as at least he gave what he can. Garp probably have his share of loses in his journey of becoming how he is, so doubt we should say Smoker won't be like that just because one arc had him on losing end. He gotten stronger since then and will come back better than before.

I hope to see more clashes with him and development on Tashigi too as she has good potential on being strong VA in her future or maybe even the first female Admiral we see in the series xD.

I do hope to see them again, hopefully when they head to Wano to be involved in this war as having Marines there be biggest neutral factor since they be against everyone from Luffy's side and Kaido's side. Think of all the fights and battles that can take place in that crazy chaos around.

It is when you compare that to victories, especially post timeskip, which is none. I can't recall the Vergo clash without having to go back and re-read it, but I find it difficult to believe one would lose on purpose unless he knew he couldnt defeat his opponent; so creating an opportunity for another to assist.

Smoker not having his jitte probably didn't help that fight be as challenging as it could've but I don't think he would have won either way against DD. His crew's presence did nothing to compromise that encounter though; most of them were knocked out or slashed with strings before DD even laid hands on Smoker. Had his crew being under DD's control, then I'd understand the nerf control because it'd mean he wouldn't be able to stop Doflamingo without hurting his crew himself.

But as I said in my previous post, the defeats aside, I do want to see Smoker again; I really like him as a character and a Marine. His interactions with the crew is always fun; theyve been prison pals a few times now too lol. If he attacked Luffy at sea again, Luffy would've probably be shocked because he'd think they were friends now

 

[thedude]

I like Smoker, but his loss to DF doesn't make me believe him as an Admiral ever. i can't imagine any of the old admirals having such a weak showing. Smoker and Bastille are why I have said we need to stop using VA as a benchmark for upper tier strength (and the guy Bartolomeo beat up). Some people were acting like VA level is near YC level. And yet, we have guys losing easily to guys in that level. I have DF and Sabo at least at YC level, and they just had no issues beating marine VA's.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

VA are the redshirts and Worfs of this world. Just hypeinstruments. Even after the loss of two admirals... not one of them got promoted.

 

[Fox666]

Why would anyone still think the Vice-Admirals are strong?

Even someone like Bartolomeo can easily defeat a Vice-Admiral.

Gion and Tokikake were introduced to the series as candidates to become Admirals because none of the other Vice-Admirals were worth being appointed.

If the Vice-Admirals were pirates, they would have bounties of 100 million.